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By | November 3, 2008 336 Comments

Welcome to Lovefraud Land

By Peggywhoever

Welcome to Lovefraud Land! Again, welcome. Cyber handshake.. (Smile).

This is not a vacation location. But it is a destination. You can find your path to healing here.

Tell me, you Googled the word “Sociopath.” You have just ended a most painful relationship. Or rather, THEY ended the relationship. And you are left as an emotional shipwreck.

See how many adjectives apply. Hurt. Betrayed. Confused. Damaged. State of Disbelief. Questioning them. Questioning you. Questioning everyone. Questioning everything. Why? Why? Why? What is going on here?

You have come to the right place. Having come out of the most bizarre, twisted and contorted relationship of your life as though you were an emotional contortionist, you will find answers. And peace.

You have been abused, perhaps for the first time, and perhaps you have a lifetime of abuse. You are in pain. You can barely function. It is difficult to get out of bed in the morning. You feel frozen. You can barely make the effort to eat. Sound familiar? You are sick”¦emotionally sick, physically sick, sick to the core of your psyche.

Being in a relationship with a Sociopath takes everything you hold dear”¦your values, your code of ethics, your trust in love, honor, and commitment and turns them upside down. And then they are stomped on. Your body is on alert, you may have feelings of depression, anxiety, paranoia, as well as PTSD symptoms. You can barely function at your job… Your friends and family are tired of hearing your story. Nobody understands. Nobody listens. You feel that nobody cares.

Well, at Lovefraud Land, we DO care. You have friends now. New friends. People who have walked in your shoes. You have friends who will listen, REALLY listen to you and help advise you. Free counseling. Not necessarily from licensed professionals, but people who are seasoned and licensed in the game of life.

Because, to a sociopath it is a game. A one-sided game. They win, you lose. They are the victims. Always. You can never play the game right. The rules change as soon as you figure it out.

You are never enough. Were never enough. You were not bright enough, handsome/pretty enough, clever and witty enough, attractive enough, enough, ENOUGH!

It is not about you. It was never about you. It is about them. Everything, EVERYTHING about a Sociopath revolves around them. Always has, always will.

YOU WERE ALWAYS ENOUGH.

What is about you is your ”¦ well, YOUNESS! Your uniqueness. You were chosen, targeted even by a sociopath for your intrinsic goodness. Your loving heart, compassionate nature, blind trust, and helpfulness were strong factors in them choosing you as a victim.

You cannot change a sociopath. Ever. You cannot fix them. The best thing you can do is STAY AWAY FROM THEM. Always. Forever. This is known at Lovefraud Land as NC (No contact).. That means no face-to-face contact, no telephone conversations, no e-mail, no text messaging, NOTHING. Because any contact with them will only bring you pain.

Oh, and the obsessing. Thinking of them night and day. Day and night. Over and over and over until you feel like you are watching the same video in your head. And the ruminating (another Lovefraud word) ”¦ which relates to the obsessing and constantly thinking “what if” or how much you love and miss them and how wonderful they were and “what if” you had only done this or that?

Well, nothing, NOTHING you could have done would have changed anything. Or fixed anything. You are left with”¦you. And you will learn to understand yourself, and love yourself, and appreciate yourself in a way you never have before.

It is a journey, this seeking the answers, this journey of understanding, a journey torward physical, emotional, and spiritual health. Your new friends will walk with you and hold your hand.

Welcome. Welcome to Lovefraud Land. Cyber handshake. (Smile).

Peace
Peggywhoever


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Indigoblue

If I had only GOTTEN HERE SOONER ! LOVE jere

stormee

Thanks for that essay Peggy(whoever)… I also wish (like Indigo) I had gotten here a lot sooner, your essay tells my story and everyone’s story… May God bless all of us in our recoveries….

Ox Drover

Dear Peggy,

So wonderfully phrased, and so TRUE!!!! Donna, if there was a way to post this “welcome” message where it would be seen by all newcomers, and not have it get buried in the archives, i vote for that! So that every new person coming here can read this wonderful welcome as soon as they arrive!

Indigoblue

How about Lovefraud Billboards ? My Radio station has BillBoards here in Orlando Zradio.com there slogan is safe for the little ears, I want a new slogan Music for your Soul!

blondie

that is exactly how it all feels…..

kerisee04

Ahhh, the journey back to peace… It can’t be replaced.

Gemini_Fairy

This couldn’t have come at a better time. My ex just contacted me after 2 months of NC. I got to the phone just as it stopped ringing (didn’t recognize the number). It’s amazing to me that now that I know that he’s a sociopath I can hear him so much clearer. The sob story. The I just want to talk with you. I was that close to answering. Yet I was/am still feeling that nagging. I know that I cannot call him back but I feel so curious. I’m feeling a bit anxious. Felt like I was going to hypervenillate (spelling?) just seeing his phone number.

How is it that they provoke that kind of reaction? Someone get the skillet and give me a pre-boink to keep me from calling.

Stargazer

BOINK! Do NOT give in. The addiction will wear off. I promise.

Stargazer

Here are some thoughts I have been having today about forgiveness and letting go of sociopaths in our lives:

After having slept with one and fallen in love with him, reading lots of literature, and blogging on this site, I have come to some conclusions. Sociopaths are missing a very important piece of human equipment–a conscience. If you or I were missing a conscience, how would we behave? Exactly like they would. You cannot expect a person without a conscience to behave the same way as a person with a conscience any more than you would expect a one-legged man to run a marathon. A sociopath cannot get rehabilitated in therapy any more than a person with no eyes can have their sight restored. Expecting a sociopath to reason, think, or communicate like a normal person is like expecting a snake to act like a cat. I love my snakes. They trust me and know who I am. And yet when they’re hungry, they STILL strike at me!

How did the sociopath lose his/her conscience? Does it matter? Maybe they were born without it. Or maybe there was childhood trauma. The point is, they don’t have it. And therefore they are harmful and dangerous people.

There is no point in hanging onto anger toward them for being who they are and doing what they do, any more than it would make sense to get angry at a snake for striking or a scorpion for stinging. It’s WHAT THEY DO. That’s why I say it’s not personal, even though it feels very personal when you’ve been victimized.

To me, this acceptance of what my ex is has helped me to forgive him. That doesn’t mean I feel sorry for him and want to help him. I don’t think he can be helped. But I see him for what he is. As much as I would love that fairy tale romance, why would I invite someone back in my life that I KNOW will hurt me? It’s easier to see it like this when you’ve been in NC for a while, though. So if you are not ready to forgive, be kind to yourselves.

Peace out,
StarG

Wini

I don’t know StarG, I think they just don’t have the tools to step back and see the overall picture through life, therefore, do not have any tools to problem solve.

Everything everyone bloggs about, seems to be desperate actions on all of their EXs part.

Desperate not to be a father or a mother … desperate acts of not paying their bills, desperate acts of not being faithful (hey, my first roller coaster ride gave it up and said “the reason he dated so many women at the same time was because if one find out what he was truly all about [insecure person and the rest of the negativity attributes he built up in his own mind] they’d leave him. Not wanting to ever be left alone or left behind (too insecure to make it in life on his (their) own), he always had more than one relationship going at the same time … so if he got tossed out of one … he’d have his backup relationships to take his mind off of any pain he’d need to endure … plus, being lonely or alone …

I think they all have this negative fear.

Just as my Dad taught me to step back from a problem, look at the bigger picture, instead of myopically being in pain over it … sleep on it … which gave me more time to ponder about more details to the situation … showed me that he cared about me, gave me tools to work with to solve my own problems (which built my self esteem)… allowed me to work through what I first saw as bigger and therefore, myopically … I was allowed to step back and see the bigger picture which ends up showing a more positive side or different view of what you original thought/saw/comprehended … etc.

Do our EXs have these skills? … I wouldn’t bet on it.

How many parents out there even think to take the time out to teach their children how to step back and see a bigger picture to their problems?

I believe they don’t have any tools in their tool belt of life. You have to learn these lessons as you go down righteous paths in life … gather another tool (wisdom) as you go …

The Bible even tells us that “Fools do not listen to wisdom”.

Peace.

Indigoblue

My Psyco did say truths and when I look back now they tell the bitter truth !

I’m not Gay – So why would he even entertain a homosexual act even one time let alone many ?

You( me ) bring this shit on yourself – I persued him , time after time I gave him chance after chance , helped him when there was no one else ! One Christmass I went and got him from under a bridge so he would’nt spend Christmass eve under that bridge !

It’s (relationship) never going to be what you want ! – A real friendship or relationship that means something , where both people mutually care for and take care of each other , loving ,

Not really a lot of Truths compard to the lies Huh?

No Balance !
LOVE jere

mrniceguy

This is an amazing post. I could identify with each and every sentence in it.
I agree, it would be great to have it posted on the front page so that people can identify to the point why they are feeling the way they are feeling!

Yes, you completely lose yourself and have to rebuild from scratch. It is like your previous accomplishments (in which you would be proud of) doesn’t matter anymore. I guess this is a part of the devaluation going on.

What I don’t understand is how on earth could I take all that and accept all that. Accept a way of thinking that led to personal resignation? It beats me.

I suffer from an anxiety disorder (in which became far worse during and after the relationship). She actually used that to control me, what I could say and what I couldn’t. She even took my anxiety disorder personally, stating that she was a victim of it. She would each and every day discuss my disorder (and not any of all my accomplishments), telling me it was a big problem for her.

The more I gave in (feeling shame for my anxiety disorder affecting her – even though in retrospect it didn’t really affect her at all), the worse she became. Give them your little finger, and they just don’t grab your hand, they also grab your very soul, and twist it upside-down.

maniatissa

That is interesting…you know what my ex said he wanted most to find in a mate- WIDSOM! Maybe because he didn’t have it! A friend told me that what he saw in me was what he knew he didn’t have in himself and wanted it for himself, like the “emotional vampire”…

I read something somewhere about some people with personality disorders who have a small percentage of a conscience, they refer to this as either having one or twenty percent conscience, but not enough to function healthily. BUT, they have just enough that they end up ‘stuffing’ any latent remorse they have, and end up becoming more ‘sick’ psychologically because of it, until it eats away at them. Somehow it is comforting to think that this might happen to some with sociopathic behavior. Although surely there are those who have absolutely no conscience.

southernman429

Peggywhoever you hit the nail squarely on the head.

peacefulnow

“I think they just don’t have the tools to step back and see the overall picture through life, therefore, do not have any tools to problem solve.”

“How many parents out there even think to take the time out to teach their children how to step back and see a bigger picture to their problems?”

Wini,

As a parent of one normal child and one who is exhibiting a great deal of evidence that she has no conscience, I feel compelled to respond in support of Stargazer’s point of view/opinion regarding a lack of conscience. I know we don’t treat our children exactly the same, but when it came to character and morality, I certainly demonstrated and taught the same lessons. One of my children is loving and well-adjusted. One is extremely narcissistic and mean, and may well be a sociopath. While I respect your opinion, I just want you to know of at least my experience. I spent lots of time, even more with my troubled child than with the untroubled one, teaching my child to problem-solve on her own, and to step back and see a bigger picture to her problems. She understood my words, because I’ve heard her say them back to me. But actions speak louder than words, and hers speak volumes. I agree that she “lacks tools” to problem solve. One of those tools is a moral compass, or a conscience.

Wini

peacefulnow: Which child is older? The nice or the bad one?

My sister who is almost a year older than I hates me because I was born. Nothing more to it than jealousy and insecurity for not having my mom’s undivided attention any longer … had to share my mom with me … as well as my older siblings … but they were never an issue they were older than she and babied her. My jealous sister only focused on me… and of course, will never admit it … never mind analyze it.

If I say, red, she says blue, I say up, she says down. Always the opposite of anything we did as children, teen age years … and now as adults.

I was born the 19th of the same month, she was born on the 31st … we are the same age for a few days each year.

Her ego took off at the age of at least 1 and 1/2 years … figuring she was almost a year when I was born … give her another 6 months for the jealousy to kick in.

I’m telling everyone, it’s as simple as this … for them to get jealous and start acting out for attention.

My sister didn’t care if she got postive or negative attention. Positive attention, she gloated … negative attention, she pretended not to pay any mind … but she knew … the more she practiced it though, the more they don’t care … until it becomes second nature to them.

peacefulnow

Wini,

I’m sorry about the situation with your older sister.

Of my children, it is the older one, by three years. But I don’t buy that her sibling rivalry/jealousy of her younger sib is the only cause of her personality disorder, if that’s where you are headed. If so, why doesn’t every older sibling suffer similarly? I am the elder of three sisters, with 4 year spacing between each of us. Yes, I was jealous of my younger sibs. But as far as I know, it didn’t result in a personality disorder. And my disordered daughter was a very sweet young child – her horns didn’t come out until adolescence. I’m not arguing that environment can’t play a role, but I believe it’s very simplistic to try to tag sociopathy/personality disorders on parenting and/or environment alone.

Wini

peacefulnow: I remember several events as a child (actually, I remember back to my first Christmas and I wasn’t even a year old yet).

I remember learning to tie my shoes. Both parents worked at getting my sister and I to tie our shoes. One loop over the other … remember? Well, my sister could do it being almost a year older, so after she learned, my parents had to keep working with me. Every morning after breakfast and getting dressed, my dad would take the time to see if I could tie my shoes on my own … in the living room, sitting on the arm to his favorite chair … I’m trying to tie my shoe successfully. My sister would stand there and be so jealous and insulting, hurry up, learn how to tie your shoes … you’re holding us up. That’s jealousy. Jealous in her mind that I was getting additional attention … away from her. Finally, I learned how to tie my shoes … but, then came to learning how to ride a two wheel bike. My sister pushed me to the side and said to our father “Daddy, she’s a year younger, you can’t teach her this year how to ride a two wheel bike, you can only teach me, I’m older”.

True story. If you have multiple children in the family, I think this bad behavior starts when they are around 1 and 1/2 and are out of control due to jealousy.

Peace.

Indigoblue

I am the oldest of three I had my parents all to my self for six years, My sister says I warped her :)~

I was entitled to this warping you see I am all that matters the first and the last!

of course this is a bit grandieose , background genetic background, combo nature/Nurture not all one way !

Peace there is always more than meets the eye! just like the reality we percieve is’nt the True reality ! LOVE jere

Wini

peacefulnow: If they are hell bent on being jealous, how can they think of anything else … it’s a slow burn inside of them … they can smile to your face and act like nothing is bothering them … but it does.

You had a 4 year difference … there is 4 years of maturity over your siblings … so you wouldn’t be as jealous if you were closer in age. You could already tell they were younger and you weren’t as needy by the time they came into the family. Think about it … my sister is just about to turn 1 and whalla … I appear and bump her out of her title of youngest in the family?

Wini

Yeah Indi … and you are the only son … your siblings are sisters … and mommy’s always love giving daddy the heir to the throne.

Now move over … off that throne… let your sisters get to sit there…

Wow! Brilliant post, Peggy! Thank you, doll..:)

I seriously believe the Lord led me to Lovefraud. He also sent me 3 mentally damaged individuals back to back because I obviously wasn’t recognizing the danger I was dismissing, shrugging off as harmless, being my stubborn, know it all self.

Well, I humbly admit today that I didn’t know squat less than a year ago. That I preferred the illusion, rather than seaking truth, rather than focusing on reality. That evil walks in many appealing (initially) guises and evil latches on the good as a way to exploit and survive a paltry, soulless existence.

I needed the hard lessons to become who I am today. I needed to be involved with people who were ego driven, selfish, cruel, controlling, abusive to be able to acknowledge the beauty, the love, the decency that resides in my heart, my spirit as well as others.

I have benefited tremendously from the heartless, those bereft of conscience, in ways that have strengthened my spirituality, my bond with the Lord.

I would like to share a quote from Martha Stout’s..”Sociopath Next Door” which profoundly explains my determination to understand personality disordered individuals:

“…..only by recognizing the dark can we make a genuine affirmation of the light.”

Amen, Miss Stout.

Peace, love and joy to all

Wini

peacefulnow: Once sibling rivalry takes hold … the parents are out of the picture as far as the jealous child is concerned … you can’t get through to jealousy. THEY DON’T HEAR YOU (AS A PARENT) … THEY ARE TOO BUSY BEING JEALOUS AND COMPETING WITH THE SIBLING THAT IS THE FOCUS OF THEIR ANGER.

peacefulnow

Wini: OK, just for arguments’ sake, let’s just say that sibling rivalry causes a person to exhibit sociopathic behavior. Even so, your responses all beg the question – What makes some “hell bent on being jealous” and what makes “sibling rivalry take hold” in some but not in others?

Molly

THANK YOU PEGGY:

I can not tell you what good timing this post was/is.

Don’t get your skillet’s out !!!I have my own and I have just BOINKED myself.

I have been feeling very sorry for myself all day. It was this day last year that I had just got back home to my Ex after going back “home” to be at my sisters side when she died last Oct 9th of breast cancer. I had literaly got off the plane, picked up a car a friend let me borrow and arrived at the hospital only to have her die a few moments later. When I got to her friends house after we left the hospital, I had a call from the counselor my husband and I had been seeing. I called and he proceeded to give me a hard time about not calling to cancel my appointment which was scheduled for that very day. I explained what happened and told him I thought my husband was still going to attend and thought that he would call. He continued to “scold” me and when ALL my sisters friends said “GIVE ME THE PHONE”, I just hung up….. I decided to stay a few days after the services because my son was expecting his first child. I felt that my EX was a big boy and could take care of him self just fine. A few days before I was going to return I was in a car accident and “TOTALED” my friends car. I found someone who let me do some cleaning work so I could come up with the $500 deductable. When I arrived home, fist “he” said very matter of factly “how are you” when I started to anwser I realized he did not really care, so I said nothing further. Then he said “by the way, I did not get a chance to change the sheets (I was gone 3 weeks) and I only have one pair of underware left. That was the first moment I thought (I just can not do this anymore). He then said I know it is our annaversery but we’ll do something next weekend. (of course we never did). I told him this would have been my sisters 40th birthday…please..I can not just sit home in bed all weekend (he would litteraly sit in bed all weekend)…it was the first time I was up set and did not hold it in. He smashed the remote and took off, he had taken off once before after I got out of the cardiac unit. He stayed away for almost a week, so I started to pack my stuff. He came back and never said a word, the weekend was over and we did nothing.

So, even though I have been gone for 6 months for some reason I felt like I should be packing to go back home just as I did this time last year. Yesterday, I drove to my sisters home town and put flowers and a ballon on the treee her job planted for her.

I was just going to go on line and look up flights, so I could go back sit in front of my EX’s door and demand he tell me what the hell happened. Why, “because I feel every thing…I MEAN EVERYTHING you post said. I can’t stop .

WHY CAN”T I stop thinking of someone who treated me soooo poorly…..I am so glad I do not have any gun’s in my house because I have felt like popping myself in my head so the thoughts stop. Do not worry, I will not….Then he really win’s…I am not crazy, but I feel crazy at times….and he sits and goes on in life like nothing ever happened and I am the B.

I could not stop crying after I read your post, because everything hit home. Thank you And I am sooooooo very greatful I found this site. No one else does understand…

Wini

peacefulnow: Good question. All I know is that parents have nothing to due when sibling rivalry takes hold.

I know my sister never paid attention to anything my parents told us as children, as a group. If they had a one on one with her, she’d listen. She listened because she was being singled out and needed the attention. That’s why she listened, her jealousy was not blinding her if she had one on one interactions with my parents … but, have my parents say something in a group to all of us … she refused to listen, she was too busy being jealous over me being in the room. Her focus was back on me again, her wrath.

It’s the same thing I saw with my co-workers, seething because I was in the room. I once hung out with all of them (we were all around the same age) … broke apart after a falling out, never to hang out as friends again … just cordial co-workers from then on out… but their seething continued … the jealousy, the control … they’d actually tell other co-workers who partied with me the previous Friday night after work that they were traitors … traitors to go out happy hour with me … but it was OK for them to go out happy hour-ing with other co-workers … but me, it was off limits.

If I saw any of them one on one in work … without the others in site … they’d be putty in my hands, falling all over me … it was like this please, please, please be my friend again … we won’t tell anyone.

I couldn’t. They were too out of control with their lives and never looked inside themselves to fix their pain … so it was suicidal of me to go back into the fold … ended up being a double edge sword … but … sa la vie.

What I’m saying is … parents have nothing to do with the will of a child … after they come into the world. You may think you are getting through to your child, but once, one of the vices in life takes off and they are focused … they are off with the vice controlling their lives.

Peace.

Stargazer

Molly, I’m so sorry to hear about your sister. I can’t believe your counselor wasn’t more understanding. I’m not clear on what your relationship is with your ex and how he is still in your life (?). I wish there was one place to access everyone’s story by clicking on their user title. I forget so many details of what I read.

My comment before about sociopaths lacking a moral conscience was not to conclude how they got to be that way. When I first came to this site, I was convinced that they were all traumatized by childhood abuse and could be healed. But it seems there may also be some genetic component, as I’ve been reading. The point is, for the sake of your own well being, DOES IT REALLY MATTER? You can’t save them. It is not your job. Unless the person has the ability to introspect (and most of them don’t), they will not change, no matter what you do. You can pray for them, but from a distance. Until a conscience magically appears in their psyche, they will not change.

I was trying to imagine what it’s like not to have a moral conscience. What would I do? Would I rob banks? Would I kill people? I am not into violence and blood letting. I’m into clothes. I’d probably shoplift from every fine clothing store in Colorado. (Of course I wouldn’t being who I am now, but if I didn’t have a conscience, that would be my target of choice). I’m not saying this to be funny. I’m just pointing out that these people are like (as the Dalai Lama says) human beings who are not completely developed. They are missing an important piece.

I think there are many other ways to get screwed up in childhood (and I have probably experienced most of them). And many of those ways are not resilient to healing. But whatever makes a sociopath a sociopath makes him/her resistant to change. Like a snake cannot be other than a snake.

Ox Drover

Dear Peacefulnow,

I also have one normal child (age 39 now) and one psychopathic one, and my p-son also didn’t ‘sprout horns’ until teenaged years except for one episode at age 11.

Wini, and i agree to disagree about the causation of psychopathic behavior. i am unfortunately a genetic minefield for psychopathic behavior having ps on both sides of my family tree, and my father a full-blown well developed violent psychopath. My sons’ grandfathers are BOTH psychopaths, so the boys got the TRIPLE whammy geneticly.

I have raised animals all my life in large numbers and ‘personality” and “attitude” breed pretty true in them from my experience and i see no reason that humans should be any different, we are mammals after all. I DO believe that the Ps have a choice about how they behave, just as a man with the genes for alcoholism has a choice whether to drink or not. Ps know right from wrong, but they make the choice to do what they want to do instead of what is right.

I ‘feel for’ you if you have a child who is showing signs of N-ism or P-ism, it is a helpless feeling to know that there is nothing you can do to “save’ that child from themselves. I wasted many years and tears trying to hold on to hope that my son would change into something not quite so monsterous. I could have saved myself a lot of grief if I had just accepted the TRUTH 20 yrs ago and gone and stayed NC then instead of now. It was a painful decision at the time I did go nc but I am so glad now I did. Life is much nicer.

peggywhoever

Thank you all for your kind comments. Lovefraud has been an incredible source of information and healing for me in the past year. I am presently (on most days) out of the fog at last. There are still occasional setbacks and obsessing, however. The 3-year experience with the sociopath was the most emotionally painful of my life. He betrayed everything that I held dear…truth, love, kindness, respect, communication, and fidelity.

I have not been working for 6 months (PTSD) and am presently re-evaluating everything…and everyone in my life. Much reflection and introspection, not to mention healing, has resulted. I now adhere to the philosophy “one red flag and you’re out”.

I wish you all understanding, joy, and peace. It is an amazing process to go through, the identification of a loved one as a sociopath and the realization that they are “unfixable”. I would not wish this experience on anyone.

However, I do find that I appreciate more the “good” people of integrity in my life, and there are many. I believe that “truth is stranger than fiction” and find myself listening to…and believing…revelations that would have previously seemed to be from delusional people. Because frankly, if my story hadn’t happened to me, I would have had difficulty believing it. In trusting and believing myself, I trust and believe in the stories of all the other victims.

If this article has helped even one person, then I am very grateful. Blessings and peace to all of you.

Peggy Pseu

P.S. I would like to credit AlohaTraveler for her use of the phrase “Lovefraud Land” and of her support through e-mail and on the phone this past year. She is an amazing person; communicating with her has greatly increased my understanding of sociopaths (and/or borderline personality disorders) and has accelerated the healing process. Thanks, Aloha!

And Donna, I cannot thank you enough for having the wisdom, courage, heart, and hard work to make this site a reality.

Wini

Hey Oxy and Peacefulnow: The only thing I can suggest is that these children need to go to Bible Study where there are actual instructors to oversee and explain how to break down the Bible (give them plenty of home work to read on their own, wouldn’t hurt) … so they can understand what they are reading … then off to a counselor that works them through their vice (which clouds their minds, sight, hearing) in a generic way, not identifying the actual person they are focused on, but generically. Then as they make progress and understand the problem, maybe then a therapist can work on their warped perceptions about the actual person they are so hell bent about … their original focus.

Hey my sister’s number is 1-800-DRI- VE ME CRAZY.

Only kidding … I still love her, but she is the very first person that made me cry in my life, and then cry and cry and cry. At my age, I’ve had enough … get a grip on your anger or … zoom, I’m outta here.

Peace and harmony, harmony and peace … this is my mantra tonight.

kerisee04

Okay, I gotta ask:

I know most of you have been burned by significant others and family members. My S was considered a friend and is now my husband’s ex-wife.

My question is, what do I have to do to stop obsessing? Part of my problem is that I can’t cut her out of my life. She will be a part of it because of shared children. But at what point can I expect to have my life back, my thoughts, feelings and emotions back?

Where am I at in my process of healing? I know I don’t want anything to do with her, but how do I make myself hardened against her attacks? How do I stop trying to foresee her next angle and just get on with life? But then the question is, I was told never to let my guard down, so how do I do that and not obsess?

Help?

Wini

kerisee04: 2 things worked for me.

1. I acknowledged that I needed to change my focus, analyzed myself, made changes.

2. I read Tolle’s book “A New Earth” and learned how to go into the “now” … which is fantastic, no pain in the now.

And there is something else I forgot to mention … tis better to be a willow tree, than an oak. A mighty oak is a strong beautiful, hearty tree but can be felled at the slightest wind … whereas, the willow can stand up to the harshest of what mother nature has to offer and is still standing as the winds die down.

Peace. Try to be a willow.

Indigoblue

I did that ! obsess !

I think as much as humanly possible NC ! I know thats gota be the most difficult part in the situation of a family member or ex husand/wife ! It will be difficult to explain to them , to the children , to relatives ! But hey Life is to Short to risk association with Psycos ! It’s just not worth It !

which part of NO do (we) not understand? LOVE jere

Jen2008

Wini, If sibling rivalry and jealousy is the problem as you see it, how do you explain sociopathic traits in a child who is an only child?

And if teaching a child the Bible and having them read and study it solves the sociopathic problem, how do you explain the child who is brought up in a religious family, is taken to church regularly, the family teaches and lives the Bible in the home, yet the child still is a sociopath and engages in antisocial behavior?

Stargazer

Kerisee,
Fill your day with distractions, and especially things that make you feel good and laugh. For some of us, energy work (such as Reiki) has been extremely helpful. It can actually shift thought patterns, because thoughts are a form of energy. For others, giving all of the obsessing over to a higher power is very helpful too. Let God (or whatever your higher power is) take care of it. I did this for weeks and weeks every time I lay down to sleep. It really helped. Ultimately, as Wini says, the goal is to take back the energy you focus on her and focus it on yourself. This is how you take back your power, my dear–by not giving her so much control over your thoughts and feelings. Some of the obsessing goes away by itself over time. Some of it is a conscious choice, and you have to work at it. There are things in life you cannot control, especially regarding her. So if you cannot change those things, there is no point to worry about them.
Sending you a huge hug.
StarG

peacefulnow

Oxy,

It’s comforting to know that I am not alone, and I thank you for reminding me of it. I’ve learned so much from reading your posts since I found this site a couple of months ago, and I think you are very kind to share your story with all of us so that we can glean whatever knowledge we can from your experience. I hope that my child (20) never reaches the point of violence, but I can’t say I would be surprised if it happens given the right circumstances. She is the one who has for the time being decided not to be in contact with me, as I won’t countenance her controlling behavior toward me. (She stays in contact with her malignant narcissist father, who is for the most part out of my life for two years now, hence my “peaceful” state now.) I’m beginning to feel that it’s actually a lucky circumstance that she is giving me the silent treatment despite the fact that I’m supporting her through college. Over the last year I have begun to accept that there is nothing I can do any longer to influence the choices she makes in life, again and again, choices that make her heart/life smaller and darker. I still hold out a slim hope that something may happen in her life to awaken her to the possibility of the fuller, happier life that giving, rather than always taking, brings us. But that seems more and more in the realm of a miracle, the more time that passes. As you said, it is a helpless feeling to watch from a distance. And to wonder what kind of havoc she will wreak on innocent lives. But as I said, it’s comforting to know that I’m not the only mother to feel this – and I can’t even begin to compare my feelings with what you have survived, Oxy. You are a role model for me. Hope that doesn’t freak you out to hear that!

peacefulnow

Kerisee,

Yes – accepting that you have no control over their actions is key. Much easier said than done. I remember, though, the epiphany moment I had (not pleasant), when the court psychologist answered my question: “Is there anything I can do to help my daughter in her relationship with her (narcissist) father?” (concerning the un-disturbed daughter) And his blunt answer, looking me straight in the eye: “NOTHING.”

They will behave as they behave. You are right, as long as you have care of the children, you can’t rest, you have to do what you can to make a good, healthy, peaceful home for them. But you simply cannot have ANY control over what that disordered person does. The only control you have is over you. There you have complete control. I don’t know if this will work for you, but once I realized that, I was nearly home-free from my disordered ex-spouse who had emotionally abused me for nearly two decades. I wish you well, wish you and the children the best. They are lucky to have you in their lives.

kerisee04

Thanks all. I will put your words to use. Anything helps right now.

I will try to be a willow (very good analogy). I know that I cannot control her. The hard part is controlling myself when she tries to control my husband…uncontrollably. And the threats–they’ve died down quite a bit, except she’s replaced them with irresponsible parenting and over-reliance on my reliability. I just feel constantly taken advantage of and I can’t say no because it’s for the kids. And she knows that.

hardlesson

kerisee, On a unrelated subject I totally agree with your theory on prevailance of females with APD (different blog). Excuse my complete lack of knowledge of your case. But if you and your husband are still currently in your custody battle I would like to talk and share notes. I’m in the last few months of mine and unless the judge goes against the evaluator and psychologists suggestions I will have saved my daughter. I’m not exactly sure how we can communicate. Any ideas? One thing I can tell you is my ex’s pschopathy is a double edged sword. The common edge( The one all of us on LF know so well) and the edge that points back at herself. If not for that edge I would stand very little(if any) chance of saving my daughter. The key is documenting that edge and getting professionals invovled that recognize it and know how dangerous is.

hens

Peggywhoever – if I ever need to expalin to someone what happened to me in 2008 – I will hand them your post – thank you [The rules change as soon as you figure it out] – No Contact – ever again – changed numbers – locked the gate – I won – he lost – he is the lowest of the low – he is gone……..

peggywhoever

Hurrah for you, Henry! One needs to have experienced a relationship with a Sociopath it to be able to relate to it, I believe. I have some wonderful friends, but unless it has happened to them, they try hard to be supportive but just don’t “get it”. The most common advice is “just get over it”. This was the most debilitating experience of my life, and let’s hope none of us has to learn this lesson twice. Once was more than enough!

Cheers to happy healing.

hardlesson

To all of those struggling to get over, not obsessing, thinking about or whatever the struggle. Remember this, THE PERSON YOU FELL FOR NEVER EXISTED. They were fabricated by the “P” (or what ever their malfunction) from their acute skill of taking all of our best qualities and desires and using them against us. THEY DO NOT EXIST and therefore are not deserving of obsession, concern or any other of our best qualilties. See they are still using you and your qualities against you. I would think NC should be easy (except in the case of common children) And as for healing and contiplating another relationship. Know that this was not a man (or woman) who has done this but a psychopath plain and simple. I know its not really that simple. We were all chosen for our good, We are all still what we are. They never were and never will be.

Indigoblue

I disagree ! big suprise huh?:)~

( we ) People , s/he , humans are !

( we ) are a combination Of 3 elements !
Spirtual , Mental , Physical !

Soul , Mind , Body !

Behavior Nature Nurture
Genetic learned
survival Needs

Nature Human species all geneticly Linked
Genetic DNA Crap shoot/chance a + b = c
Survival A child left to survive w/out a b or d suragate
will not live !

Nurture a b or d
Learned a b or d
Needs a b or d

1. c No genetic factors known? a+b+e = (family
members) basic needs met ! “normal”

2. c No genetic factors known? a + b + e but
basic needs from birth are not met only survival
food ,water,warmth,hygene! Nature/Survival
instinc/defence mech. =Psy/Soc/Nar/???

3. c Add in genetic factors spin the wheel of fortune!

( we ) from the experience of those here LF Know that the genetic part is there and quite possibly there is little that can be done at this point in time !

My point in saying I disagree = they are still people (us)

My hope , my Faith , my Prayers IS their Healing!

serinity , nirvona , utopia , Heaven !

Give me the Courage to change the things that I can ! To accept the things that I can not change and THE WISDOM to know the DIFFERENCE! LOVE jere

Indigoblue

OxD

Awsome ! This is what I had not put into words ! I read your letter !

This is how I stoped the obsessing !

FORGIVE yourself for being HUMAN !

Ya know how we want to bring something in here back to the front for newbes ! I love the way you tell it ! And this I would deffinately bring to the table to help our posse! LOVE jere

letting-go

Hello….I am in the process of trying to leave my ex. He seems to not to want to allow that. I have asked him over and over and while replying to my requests he knows just what to say to make me feel guilty as if I am doing something wrong. He is invovled with other women and while he constantly denies it, I know it to be true. I have fought with one of them for over a year now. Back and forth he goes…or did he ever leave her? I have blocked all from my myspace and no longer carry them on my instant messenging…but still have the same number because I have changed it so much that its embarassing to do so yet AGAIN. I just honestly want to let go of this pain and move one…but the guilt thats laid on me is crazy. Also I think I am partly crazy myself. When we dont talk….at first I seem to be okay…then I find myself missing bits and pieces of him…but then once we talk again the anxiety raises back up and I feel like I made a mistake. HELP ME JUST LET THIS GO AND GET IT OUT OF MY LIFE PLEASE…what do I need to do…oh also ofcourse when I first told him I wanted things to just be over…I got the whole threat stuff, like posting me all over the internet…contacting my job for emailing him during work hours….and even 3rd party death threats and taking my son (which is not his) to raise to be like him….so I am sort of taking that as a kidnapping threat as well….But here I am feeling guitly because I just want him TO LEAVE ME ALONE……UGH WHY???

Elizabeth Conley

“I have asked him over and over…”

Don’t ask any more. Stop communicating entirely. Don’t do it. If you encounter him socially, don’t even look him in the eyes.

Be bland. Be mild, be calm – at least outwardly. Don’t communicate with anyone who communicates with him. If that’s not practical for whatever reason, keep your communications with these third parties impersonal.

If there are any threats to harm you or your son, report them and keep a record.

Get a restraining order. It doesn’t protect you, but it starts a paper trail that will eventually lead even the dimmest police to see him for what he is.

“contacting my job for emailing him during work hours” Don’t email him. I’m not beating you up for having done so. I’m sure you had your reasons. NO MORE!

There must be a clear distinction between your behavior and his. You must convey to law enforcement that you are the rational, reasonable, “together” citizen, so that he must either tip his hand to the police or leave you alone.

Please don’t take him back. Police hate that. Really and truly, they get fed up.

Ox Drover

Dear Letting go,

Welcome to love fraud, it is a healing place. I agree with Elizabeth. They feel they “own” you and they do not want to let go of that ownership. I have seen that kind of “ownerships” with people and their dogs, they abuse the dog, but they don’t want to let it go, they want to keep it. They OWN IT, how dare that dog run away.????

Read here and learn, learn everything you can ab out psychopaths and how they operate (they are so the SAME) and make your escape. For your own life and sanity, ESCAPE. (((hugs)))) and God Bless you

Jen2008

Letting-go,
I agree with Elizabeth. NO CONTACT is vital. Any contact only leaves the door open for further manipulations (such as your feeling guilty because they are masters at pushing your buttons). Also, as you have already seen, any contact whatsoever from you to him, he can and will use against you to make his case.

He is likely not leaving you alone because he enjoys the power and drama of the fights and also seeing your confusion and begging him to leave you alone. On the phone issue, you do NOT have to answer that phone. Let any and all calls from him go to voicemail. If he starts phoning you from a number you do not recognize, then start letting all calls from numbers you don’t recognize go to voicemail too. If it is something important from someone else, they will leave a message, then you can return their call.

You will have to learn to deal with the anxiety and the periods of missing him (blogging here for support during those times is a good idea, so we can help you through it). Remember that you do not need his “permission” or “approval” to completely break off this relationship and further contact. He has already been threatening you, so you need to work on accepting that this guy is a danger to you and does not have your best interest at heart in any way, shape, or fashion.

With passing time of no contact, you will begin to feeling a bit clearer headed in thinking and be able to see him more for what he is with the manipulations and threats etc. And slowly you will begin to feel better and you will KNOW you made the right decision. Again, the contact with him will keep this dragging out for forever because it is a game to him. It’s hard to stick to it, but you can do it and ONLY YOU can do it, as no one else can step in and make you take that step towards total no contact! Keep blogging here for support as this is a great group of people to help you through your doubts and weak spells. And good luck. –Jen2008

Indigoblue

Welcome to the place of my Angels! You are On the Right Path to Freedom and healing ! Read ,read , read , read !

My Psyco did the same thing =oh you (me) can just dump me like that ! They( psycos ) do not have rules ! but you (us,me,we) are subject to all rules /ten fold! double standard ! LIE from start to finish! Blame ! I was the crazy one ! LOVE jere

hens

Letting Go Part of your confusion and guilt are because it is emotionally impossible to simultanusly suspect deceit and feel pity at the same time, the mind can only do one or the other. And when my X made threats of exposing me and cry’s of I Love You at the same time – I knew one of us was crazy – thought it was me – but it wasn’t – hang in there – time and more time and you will get throught this –

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