By | November 2, 2008 119 Comments

Researchers want to know about your experience with a psychopath

Plenty of scientific researchers have studied psychopaths. But few have studied the victims of psychopaths, so there is little documentation of what we have all been through.

Perhaps that is beginning to change.

Lovefraud has been contacted by a researcher from Carleton University in Ottowa, Ontario, Canada. She is conducting a study entitled Victimization, coping, and social support of adult survivors of psychopaths. The graduate student is working under the supervision of Dr. Adelle Forth, who is a colleague of Dr. Robert Hare.

The purpose of the study is “to gain an understanding of the victimization experiences of adult (18+) survivors of psychopaths, in an attempt to raise awareness amongst the general public, and mental health and criminal justice professionals.”

Everyone at Lovefraud is invited to participate.

The researcher has developed a web-based survey. The survey has both self-report scales and open-ended questions. You will be asked to rate the presence or absence of psychopathic traits of the most recent psychopathic individual you have been involved with on one scale. Questions revolve around demographics, your relationship and experiences with the psychopath, including being deceived and its impact on your mental and physical health, your ways of coping, and your support networks. The survey does not ask for any information that might identify you.

Completing the survey will take approximately one hour, and Lovefraud strongly encourages you to participate. If you are concerned about your safety, please be sure to take appropriate precautions.

Here—finally—is a chance to develop information that may make a difference in how victims of psychopaths are viewed and treated. Let’s take advantage of the opportunity.

Go the survey

Data is being collected from now until Dec. 31, 2008. Be sure to add your voice.

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How much does it pay :)~


I tried taking this survey but couldn’t get past the “date” part on the first page. It kept asking me to fill in the date in a certain format, which I did. It did not progress to the next screen. Anyone able to get through?


Yes, I did. I kept getting that and realized that I was putting the month in front of the day. Then I was able to proceed. I wish the psychos could take a survey and give real answers. I’ve never been so confused by anyone in all my life than by the ones who called their actions love and care. Spare me. I still come here time and again, and keep seeing me. History really does repeat itself.


Hi all,

Thank you so much for putting this out to your readers, D. I appreciate it and look forward to educating the public with their assistance.

“Indigoblue” – Although a :)~ might typically be seen in a humorous context, you still ask a very good question which needs to be answered.

The question of financial compensation did cross my mind, and unfortunately there is none offered, for a few reasons:

(1) it would be very difficult to conduct monetary transactions *anonymously* while ensuring it is given to the right person,

(2) it may pose a risk if participants receive monetary compensation and the dangerous individuals in their lives get ahold of such information (i.e., if they see an unexplained deposit in joint bank accounts, etc.),

(3) financial reasons on my own part – it would be very difficult to fund everyone for such a large-scale study.

-M. (pss).

Ox Drover


Daughter in law
X boss
X business partner
X father in law
X neighbor


Dear “Stargazer” and “apt/mgr”,

Thank you for the feedback regarding the date. I have looked into the template and (hopefully) changed it so they can write the date in any way they wish (or skip it).

My sincere apologies,
-M. (pss).


I was able to take the survey but not sure how to answer some of the questions about the effect on my health. The reason is because I am out of the crisis period, and have mostly returned to a normal baseline. I tried to answer for when I was still in shock.

Also, it would be helpful if the screen scrolled up so you can see what answers you are checking off. (It’s probably and easy fix).

Will we be able to see the results of the survey?


Naturally, writing about the P stirred up old memories. I honestly don’t think it was his intention to hurt or play me. I think he is just missing the part in his brain (conscience, empathy?) that makes a person realize how his actions affect others. After his last no-call/no-show (which was the last straw for me), I asked him why (why he didn’t show). His response was: “I don’t know. I wanted to. I just didn’t.” I think it was his attempt at being honest. It is probably the closest he will ever come to introspection.

I believe he had a history of pathological lying. But it was almost as if he couldn’t help it–he is just wired that way. It’s wierd. In some strange way, I think he did try to be a better person for me, but he just lacks the capacity. There’s just something missing. He never spoke ill of me even after we split, to my knowledge. He never said an unkind word. But lying to him is like breathing for you and I. You couldn’t tell he was lying. He was so good at it.

Ox Drover

Dear Psuvivorstudy;

One thing that was a BIT confusing to me was your questions about our moods, etc. It wasnt clear if the way we ‘felt’ and acted afterwards was right after or now that we have had some time to heal. i answered like it effected me at first (and for months and months afterwards) but actually NOW, this minute, i am doing well, but it has been a years long healing process, not something that healed over night. my entire world was turned upside down when i had to flee my home in order to not be murdered. In the end, though, I think I am a better and stronger person for what I learned from what I endured. in fact, it would i think be helpful to me if i were a researcher to know how the victims felt at the end of the relationship, how long are they out, and how do they feel now.


Survey Says???

I can’t fill in an answer do click it lick it or stick it ?

first page no box or circle to put my answer in ?

second page same deal?

I was jokeing $$$$$$ put the $$$$$$$$ in my pay-pal acct # 123 evil 456789


Indigoblue: I thought we agreed it was acct # evil as 7734?


looking back, i really loved that bad man. i dont miss him today, i miss what i thought he was. i find that he really changed me. i find myself so much more aware of the people i meet, and there actions. i have no clue what kinda of person i want to date. im confused about my own feelings. i really thought i was going to marry him. happy i didt but my dreams are still shattered. its going on 5 months and i still have good days and bad.


Pay PAL Acct.# 666


Hi Blondie: Sorry to hear that you are waffling this weekend. It’s OK … it takes time.

I had no clue it was only 5 months for you … you seem like you were longer NC than that … I thought it was a couple of years for you … mmmmhhhhhh, you’re doing better than I would have thought for only being 5 months.



where is henry????


Indi, Henry is probably walking his 3 puppies… it’s not like having snakes wrapped around you (LOL).

Ox Drover

Dear Blondie,

Wini is right. sweetie, you are making remarkably good and fast progress. The ups and downs are normal and they will go on once in a while for a while yet I imagine, but less frequently and less “down”—you are getting there!!! Happiness kind of ‘sneaks up on” you, and one day you just realize that you are not in pain any more and that things are actually good and you are happy again. i don’t know if that makes any sense, but that’s the way it happened to me.

Blondie, I can only tell you that I am happier today than I have been in years and years! In the end, the P’s did me a favor! They made me look inside myself and realize what i wanted, and that I am not on this earth simply to meet their needs and to please them. They made me finally realize that I have a lot more worth than to be their victims, to be their slaves. i realize now that my happiness depends only on ME. no one can give it to me, and no one can take it away unless i allow it.



Here’s a hug for you too, Blondie (((hug))). Seems I went through my last painful episode of longing about a month ago, and now it is an occasional dull ache. It will get better for you, too, I know.


did you ever feel like you where never going to be comfortable with someone else? i still just feel so wierd going on dates. i cant image dating someone else, not that i want my ex back b/c i dont im much happier since the end of that relationship, i just cant image me dating somone else.. ahhh the life after the sociopath…..


thanks for the hugs 🙂


It’s because you’re not ready yet. You will probably compare all the guys you date to him. Give it some time. One of these days you will be hanging out with a guy and you will notice you just enjoy his company. But maybe it’s not time yet.


Okay, I liked the survey, but had a few problems with it:

1. There is the general assumption that the P is out of your life. In my sad situation, she will be a permanent fixture for the next 16 1/2 years and counting, due to shared children with my husband.

2. There is no provision for any other type of relationship besides significant other or family member. What about supposed friend? Spouse’s ex? Boss?

3. Also, the questionaire portion had me monologue-ing in a bad way. It’s not just about the first time we met what I noticed, it’s about everything afterwards. The tons and tons of memories she brings up of false allegations, sleepless nights, territorial preditorizing (I’m sorry, really tired here), deceitfulness to anyone in authority, and managing to snow them all.

4. The emotional outcome for me: well, partly due to the emotional outcome for my husband. It’s all interconnected.

5. And the support network. Yes there are people who are there for me. Do they completely understand? NO. Do they wish I’d get over it? YES. Kinda like how people used to think people should get over depression or alcoholism (before it was an actual disease). They worry about the kids, yes. My family will not give me money or cars, etc. My husband’s family will. That’s because my family is a stingy lot, his isn’t. Has nothing to do with my ability to create close friendships or bonds with people.

Okay, off soapbox now.
Thanks for the survey! The best one I’ve taken yet! 😉

My only concerns with the survey were the questions about the psychopath that started with “think” or “feel.” I don’t know what the xs thought or felt… I could tell you what he SAID, but I don’t believe he experienced any real emotions…and most of what he said he thought wasn’t true. I don’t know which 3 or 4 times he told the truth! LOL

And it was odd for me because of the timeline. My answers would have been quite dire and depressing the few months after I threw him out (late 2006). He’s been in prison since May 1, 2008 and I’ve felt GREAT since about July 30th! (I started feeling better around March 2007- with ups and downs, of course). But I’m a completely different person in many ways. I have survived. I am thriving.

I appreciate their quest for knowledge while protecting identity and anonymity, but I’m not ashamed of my experiences anymore. I’d be happy to answer whatever questions if I could save one mother with a daughter from the xs when he gets out of prison. I’d do about anything to accomplish that. If there was something I could do or say to save another from the non-reality of life with a socio, I’d be thrilled to make some sense from the ashes of his nonsense.


Disease shameise everything is a syndrome Bull malarky !

Ihave openthe fridge syndrome ! take a poop syndrome!smoke a joint syndrome! mastrebation syndrome !

Science has proved that we don’t exist ! Aliens have landed and taken over the sewersystem !

PLEASE, Ya Choose to drink ya choose to turn left or right

Syptems of the real cause , ya self medicate to relieve the pain ,thought ,whatever !

Stress can and does have Physical syptoms You name your favorite !

MAD cow I like that one! and Flesh eating thats a good one tooooo ! LOVE jere


Hey Blondie!

From my experience I am going to say that not knowing what you want out of a date is a step in healing. I am only saying that because I was there.

Part of the Sociopath experience is that we think, even for just a moment, that all our dreams are coming true… and then *POOF*… they are gone and we are living some kind of nightmare.

I think that leaves us with a blank slate in a way. When I was finally ready to date again, I certainly didn’t want anything that felt like a dream come true… that would be red flag city!

I don’t believe in all that now anyway. What I believe in is taking the relationship I am in now moment by moment. I am not full of expectations but I am open.. and ALERT. Definately alert.

I loved my Bad Man too… the man I thought he was but we know the punch line… he wasn’t.

On a side note for anyone out there that knows me and my stories… the Bad Man’s wife has been in touch with me as well as his daughter and they found me via LF. This is so awesome. I am not sure what will happen yet but I am happy to be in touch with them. I know they are good people and they assured me that they are ok now.

This adds to my PEACE.

Aloha XO to all.

P.S. Perhaps she will do the survey too. I haven’t done it yet.


One more thing Blondie… like Oxy says, happiness will sneak back. For me, I recall a day when I told a friend, “I got my JOY back.”

I always say it so I don’t want to cram my way of healing on other people but the biggest hurdle for me was understanding this personality disorder thing. ONce I really got it, I was released.

While I don’t adhere to the “I AM A VICTIM” cry, I do know that I was in the midst of something over my head and bigger than me. And I did have my lessons to learn and my boundaries to strengthen. I did allow the Bad Man to treat me terribly. He always had an excuse for the inexcuseable.

It took a long time before I finally would no longer accept his excuses for his behavior or his blame shifting onto me.

Anyway, dear Blondie… keep going forward. The grass is greener on the other side of this painful disappointment.


Ox Drover

Dear Blondie,

yes, I’ve felt that I would never be comfortable with anyone else (even if someone was interested in me romantically). But what I have learned is that i am no longer NEEDING ANYONE TO MAKE ME HAPPY, I am making my own happiness. I think my entire life I have depended on someone else’s ‘happiness’ to make me happy—pleasing them, even when they were unpleasable (the Ps) now i know that even if I could have made them “happy’—which you can never make a p happy–it wouldn’t have made me happy. I can now trust myself, depend on myself, and that makes me happy, as a ‘side effect” of being ME.

BTW, Aloha, glad to hear from you!


I took the survey and thought some of the questions were not worded very clearly. I can’t remember which ones now, and I’m feeling too tired and lazy to go back and peruse it. I do know I thought this several times, but just did my best to answer.

I also had the experience that overall I am doing so much better now. If I had taken this survey a year ago I would have maxed out on every psychological distress symptom. Now, not so much, although there are still moments….


Sounds like a good survey and will take it asap. If I have any feedback I will post it after the survey has been completed. 🙂


I finaly figured out how to take it the survey ! yeah ! but I am a different person now ! thanks to all my Angels ! If the survey was take 6 months ago , those depression questions would have been relavent!


i realized that im not ready to date again. im still comparing my life with the S, to other people i meet. one thing i do know is that, IM HAPPY BEING ALONE. being alone feels right for me right now. everyone enjoy your life living sociopathic free!!!



“OxDrover” – I realize that some people may have come into contact with more than one psychopath (or that they may fill several roles, in which case, it could be described under “other”) and Dr. Forth pointed this out herself in the planning stages of my survey. That is why the instructions ask to choose the most recent one or the last one you have had contact with.

“Stargazer” – I was trying to make the survey so that it could include a wide variety of situations, so that as many people as possible could have a voice. I realize that some may be in crisis at the current moment, and others may not be – and I wanted there to be room for both situations, hence asking about current vs. past involvement in demographics. You could think of the questions in terms of frequency ever since the last contact, and how you are feeling now.

The screen is showing up as scrolling up for me and ‘answers’ are shown on previews for each individual page, so I am not sure what you mean.

Yes, you will be able to see the results of the survey by March 1st, 2009. Send an e-mail (anonymous, no identifiers, account only you can access please) to [email protected] with “want psurvivorstudy results” in subject line, and leave the message empty.

“OxDrover” – You had a similar concern to Stargazer to whom I responded previously. It’s perfectly fine to describe how you felt at the end of the relationship, shortly thereafter, and now as separate situations in open-ended questions. As you pointed out, all of that would be very useful for researchers to know. It is good to hear that you feel that you are a stronger person, and that you are safe.

“kerisee04” – I attempted to write this survey for people who still had the P in their lives and those who did not, which is difficult to do. I can cross-reference all answers to the current/past involvement in my analyses. Still, your comments about the assumptions of the P being out of your life, more than the first encounter affecting your health, experience of emotional outcome also being connected with your husband’s, and your social support brings up an idea that perhaps I should add a comments section in case people wish to provide any. It will help me to look at the answers more closely to how you have, as well. I will see if I can include a comments section.

The demographics section asks about what your relationship to the P (employer, employee, family member, spouse, significant other, plus an other category, etc.) is, so again, I can cross-reference answers.

Thank you very much for participating and for your insightful comments!

“Glinda” – Choosing a good P scale was hard because the majority of them focus on things like “he/she thinks/feels…”, but the one in my survey had more behavioural aspects. The “don’t know” option was added to the original out of necessity. This brings to mind that there are currently none that are for victims to evaluate – P scales are mainly self-report or professionally administered. This may be very useful so I can make suggestions for future research in this area as well.

I have made comments about timeline in my responses to previous posters here. I am glad to hear that you are in a positive space now! :).

Protecting identity and anonymity is out of requirement (i.e., Ethics) and respect, and not intended to make anyone feel ashamed. I may be the one who starts the research, but I think participants, regardless of amount of answers given, have the real power. It is your experiences after all that will help others.

I really appreciate everyone’s feedback! Technical changes I can deal with fairly quickly. Major changes to questions would be difficult for me to do because what you see in the survey has been approved by my university’s Ethics committee. However, any comments that you have, I hope to put to use in one way or another.

-M. (pss).

Ox Drover

Dear M,

Thank you so much for your response. We are a ‘mouthy’ bunch with lots of questions and opinions. lovefraud blog is a very healing place and those of us who have ‘been here” for a while have benefited greatly from the companionship, support, advice, and knowledge gained from this site. It has been instrumental in my own healing, and others have also stated the same thing many many times.

I am very grateful that people (like you) are researching this situation from any stand point, but especially from the stand point of the victim’s perception of how the relationship impacted them. My life has been filled with psychopaths, my family is primarily made up of psychopaths, and frankly i am not sure how I ended up NOT being one with the genetics in both sides of my family.

Thank you for your time and effort in this survey! We do appreciate it!

newworld view

dear m….i had no problems with the survey…could have been more lengthy in my explanations though….i too was not sure if i should answer how i felt immediately afterwards or at the present….i could barely function then, but have learned so much about myself and my role in this nightmare since….i am not sure when all the data is reviewed how exactly to extrapolate the meaning to us….some are fresh, some are yrs out….some responded as to how they feel now and some as to how they felt then…..very different answers i would think tks terri

Hi M!
Thanks for the reply. I DID take the “don’t know” option on a few. The questions that asked for observations of their behavior made sense and were easy for me to answer.

I too appreciate what you are doing. Oxy is, as usual, much more eloquent.

Good luck with your survey and results 🙂


Yeah, the questions on how they feel are ambiguous, because we never really know how they feel about things. For instance, my hubby’s ex-wife outwardly said she hates violent movies (for the kids, etc), but she has an impulsive sexual side, and introduces them to strange men and dangerous situations. So you see, what they say and how they actually feel are so completely different compared to the situation they’re in. They are like chameleons. She couldn’t believe it when I said a cuss word once. Then, recently she got upset at a daycare provider and spewed the F-bomb over and over again at her. But to people in the congregation, she acts completely another way.

Not to mention, I think they emulate our standards, not just to manipulate, but also because they have no natural emotions themselves, so they have to show something to people.


Thank you for the survery. I found it overall very easy to understand and had no problems really with the question/answer process. I liked the blanks that were provided for some of the questions so we could elaborate. I think it is wonderful that focus is being put on victims/survivors and what can be done to help. Thanks again and I look forward to seeing the results of your work.

Elizabeth Conley

I took the survey, even though it seemed geared for people who had dated or married a Sociopath.

I wish the person/people writing the survey realized that Sociopaths cause trouble in families, churches, ministries and the workplace as well.

It seemed OK, for a survey. Servey’s aren’t always the best way to gain understanding of a complex topic. If the survey doesn’t ask the right questions, then the results are misleading.



It did ask (us) to relate the suvey to the latest psy/soc (we) where in contact with , did’nt it?

Elizabeth Conley

OxDrover’s post on Sunday, 2 November 2008 @ 7:18pm:
“One thing that was a BIT confusing to me was your questions about our moods, etc. It wasn’t clear if the way we ’felt’ and acted after wards was right after or now that we have had some time to heal. i answered like it effected me at first (and for months and months afterward) but actually NOW, this minute, i am doing well, but it has been a years long healing process, not something that healed over night. ”

I had the same issue. There’s a big difference between how I felt and acted during recovery and how I feel, act and think now.

I once read that the victims of narcissists are often mistakenly seen as having a histrionic personality disorder. This assessment is invalid because after the recovery process, the victim goes back to being his/her strong, happy, reasonable self, only perhaps a bit wiser than before. I think that’s true for victims of sociopaths as well. It is from what I’ve seen anyway.

The before, during, recovering and thriving states are quite distinct.

One more thing:

Once you’ve been there, done that and declined the T-shirt with your first card carrying member of the “drama club” (DSM IV cluster B), you’re a lot harder to distress by subsequent encounters with similar characters.

I walked away from a volunteer position recently because a fellow volunteer was a sociopath whose acting out was escalating. Experience had taught me that it was time to quietly and graciously leave the organization. My old, naive self would have stayed longer, empathized more, felt worse and tried to explain the situation to anyone and everyone I thought would listen. Now I know better. This time I simply walked away with a smile on my face and a song in my heart.

Now I look back on my earlier experiences in organizations and recognize that I’ve seen other people do the same thing, but I hadn’t understood at the time. People who can spot a sociopath and know when to bail have “wicked, crazy people skills” I wish everyone enjoyed. It would be great if education shifted the balance of power against the Sociopaths and toward the rest of us.

The sociopaths are walking among us at work, church, civic organizations, in short – everywhere. Shouldn’t everyone know how to spot ’em and deal with them?


I have a psy/soc detecter dog !:)~

Elizabeth Conley

Dogs are brilliant creatures.


Although I am not sure, I assumed that since early in the questionnaire we were asked how long we had been out of the relationship, that the questions related to our feelings/symptoms related to how we are functioning now during the time period out of the relationship, so that is how I responded.

Indigo, I believe dogs actually can sense evil in people. I think they are very intuitive and my dog could always sense a problem arising with my ex P a minute or two before I would realize it. It was as if she could read his vibes or something. I noticed this time and time again–my dog would react (literally go hide between an oversized stuff chair and the wall and begin to shake with this really paranoid look on her face. When that would happen, within minutes, all hell would break loose.



My cat was the same way ! when he was around the cat was not! LOVE jere


Hi all,

Just a few quick comments (I will be trying my best to respond to all your questions, concerns, comments, etc.!).

Your feedback is always taken into consideration and I try my very best to incorporate changes. For example, Dr. Forth and I have discussed the addition of a “Comments Box” towards the end of the survey today, and we will be passing this idea – inspired by your comments! – by Ethics for approval very, very soon. We feel that it is important as it will allow you to provide input about the survey itself and give us more insight into your answers; which in turn can be looked at in terms of themes for potential future research.

Also, I love reading the comments about animals’ intuition. I may be a “scientific researcher (student)” but as someone owned by three cats and the companion of an extremely intelligent dog who “works” for me, I am a big believer that animals are more tuned in to the events around them than we are… ;).

-M. (pss).


Took the survey…so, so difficult to describe the experience. My ex was not overtly abusive. There were no broken bones, no weapons, no beatings. In fact, I thought I had a normal happy marriage until the bitter end…he was using me as a cook, maid, ATM. But all the while he was raping my children. And he never, not for one moment, admitted any of it.

So I read my answers and it doesn’t seem like I’m even touching the raw truth of what it is like to have everything you KNOW taken away from you in the blink of an eye, in the dropping of a mask.

I could have filled out the survey about my father. Now there was a violent, murderous psychopath! He was easy to identify. He was open in his violence. (As a matter of fact, I had the false belief during the marriage that God had sent me my perfect mate as compensation for having to grow up the way I did, running for my life and dodging punches. Magical thinking.)

I could have filled out the survey about my child, who technically is the most recent I’ve dealt with. I could have told about the times this child tried to get me fired from my job, or arrested for something I didn’t do. I could have told how this child only a few weeks ago committed crimes while staying in my house and tried to get his younger sibling to go along for the ride. I could have told about the times this child tried to kill a sibling–once at age three, when he coaxed his big sister out onto the roof and was just about to push her off when I spotted them from a second-story window; another time by taking a younger sibling out in deep water on an inflatable raft and pushing her off; and another time by going after the oldest sibling with a hammer.

But I chose to fill out the survey about my ex, because of the three I have dealt with, he was the worst, even though his crimes were harder to see. He was smooth and oily and greasy and 100% made up of falsehoods. He targeted me. He worked very, very hard to get me. It took him years. And then he made me believe in love and truth and destiny and everything the movies teach you to hope for. He made me believe that he would be a good father to the troubled child, and that he would protect me from all the evil that is out there in the world.

But he wasn’t. He WAS the evil. He molested and raped my daughters. He stole from my sons. He would have killed me, I believe in my bones, had I not thrown him out when I did. I believe he killed an older relative for money, and I know he killed his own mother for money. When I confronted him about my suspicions, his only reply was a snarled “You can’t prove it.”

And up to almost the last moment, I thought he was a good man. I thought he was my soulmate. How do you put that in a survey? You can’t.

Thanks for the opportunity and the space in which to get a little bit more of the pain out of my system. Thanks for studying us…the victims who get no sympathy from a world which doesn’t understand…because it doesn’t want to look at evil and acknowledge it, the way each of us have been forced to.


I started to take the survey last night … and then stopped due to how the questions were written.

I found the questions to be out of sequence. What I knew about my EX during the relationship is totally opposite of what I found out about what he really is after the relationship ended.


survey lady thank you !

My psyco liked pets I say that becuse I took care of them he did not ! He cut the head off one of his own snakes because it bit him when he was feeding it ! this is normal behavior as he knew, he was just off the chain ! he wrote in the snakes blood all over the walls of my house and left the snakes head in a pool of blood in front of my door to my space in the house! And who do you think got to clean this up???????????? hummmm I don’t know the maid Right! I still was hooked for friggin six yrs I was Hooked
No one but these people here can possibly understand this hookedness it’s inconcievable !? They have a power beyond understanding an evil power. they make us feel we are to blame for all their sins and behavior and all the trouble they cause them selves! and they are very very very very very very good at this ! LOVE jere


Wow Todd

My best friends Name is Todd! he left this reality for the real one a couple of years ago at 40 he is survived by a wife and two sons I miss him but I know he’s smilling at me and happy that I have got it found it what ever you want to cal it I know whats up and now I can do something about it instead of being a victim ! thanks Todd LOVE jere


Indi: You should have said to him or wrote him a note “MOMMY does live here, clean up your own mess”… which I used to post all over my place of employment … yes, it was me writing these notes in the bathrooms, in the kitchen areas, especially the fridge … sinks … you name it … it was like, hey, did I get hired as your mommy, picking up after you pig pen?

Peace (LOL).

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