Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a woman whose daughter is caught in the web of a sociopath. The woman and her husband are not enabling the relationship—the sociopath, of course, wants money. They are hoping and praying that their daughter will escape.
Here is her question to other Lovefaud readers:
What was the “turning point,” “awakening moment,” “realization point,” that woke them up OUT of the fog, the gaslighting, etc., and what made them realize they needed to RUN, to get away from their sociopaths? Â What finally “did it,” what finally “broke the camel’s back?” Â Where they realized what was happening to them, had been done to them, when they finally realized things were NEVER going to “get better?”
There must be a “trigger” here somewhere. I’m just trying to grasp what it’s going to take. Â What is going to have to happen to jar her awake from this brainwashing/fog?
My experience
I remember the moment for me.
I knew my husband, James Montgomery, was lying to me, although I didn’t realize the extreme extent of the lies. I knew all my money was gone; my husband had spent about $227,000, much of it carelessly. I suspected he was cheating on me, and when I discovered proof, I left him.
Still, even after I left him, I thought my husband was just one of those guys who can’t stay faithful. I did not realize that my entire marriage was a scam right from the beginning.
The real moment of truth came when I called one of the women my husband appeared to be involved with. According to bank records I’d found, she had given him $6,000. The conversation went like this:
“I’m Donna Andersen. I’m James Montgomery’s wife, and I’d like to suggest that you don’t give him any more money.”
“It’s too late. I already gave him $92,000.”
I almost dropped the phone. And with that conversation, I realized that my husband had married me for the specific purpose of taking my money. That was all.
Your moment of truth
This reader has asked a really important question, one that may glean some possible approaches from helping people escape the sociopathic trap. So please post your experience.
What did it for you? When did you finally realize that you had to get out?
Hi. I have been reading love fraud articles and blogs for over 5 months now and I feel like I need to say thank you thank you THANK YOU for providing the insight, wisdom, experience, and guidance that you do for so many. My journey is similar. I am a single mum with three kids, struggling to make sense of the life I lived for 12 years with my husband who may as well have been a complete stranger. I’ve been through years of blaming myself, being neglected, emotionally abused, manipulated. The kids and I have been through hell and back but your words have been a guiding light during very dark times in our lives.Ă‚Â
My kids are 12, 10, and 5. Two boys and a little girl. When I grew brave enough to leave after years of intense insecurity, manipulation, lies and fear, we clung on to hope while he raged against me and my decision to leave. He kicked us out of the house and kept everything. The kids and I have moved 7 times in 2 years. He pays no child support, and said that the kids and I will suffer financially, but he won’t. I figured, you keep the house. I’ll walk away with my head up, supporting the children. He has cried to everyone that will listen in the small country town where we live. He gave and gives us nothing, he drinks and parties his life away and hates me for ruining everything. And for a while, I almost believed him. But I kept quiet, and a good friend said to me, “If you don’t know what to do, don’t do ANYTHING!” so I watched and waited. And what I saw in his actions validated my every suspicion. He had another woman 2 weeks after he kicked us out, but lied to us all about her, as if she didn’t exsist. He lied to her about everything and eventually broke her heart. He hurt the kids with his twisted anger and tried to get them to hate me, too. But he was never there for them, never put the time in to bond or act as a functional parent. It was almost as if we were extensions of him, possessions, like trophies. And when I walked away, Whoah. He didn’t like losing what he thought belonged to him.Ă‚Â
But in my head, through all of the torment and madness, two words echoed loudly. Dignity and Grace. I told myself everyday, I’m going to do this. I’m going to raise three kids alone and reclaim my life, my heart, my mind. With dignity and grace! No matter how many times we have to move and eat 2 minute noodles and rent temporary houses and try to explain to the world why. Love guided me, for my children.Ă‚Â
And somehow, by some miracle, 6 months into the nightmare, my mind and heart Ă‚Â became a united front of NO CONTACT. No emotional response. Nothing but treating him like he were business, nothing personal. It drove him wild. He did everything, tried every angle. Guilt, forced kindness, anger, rage, crying, ranting, pretend forgiveness, blame… And not once did I respond, show emotion, get involved. It was so liberating. I no longer needed to engage or give up parts of myself to satisfy him. I am free.Ă‚Â
It isn’t easy. But your stories, everyone, lift my spirit and help me to rise above what’s happened. He hasn’t seen the kids for over 8 months. They chose, themselves, no contact, after the abuse they suffered through for years. My poor little darlings. I worry about them most… How they’ll cope, knowing that they have a living father but who isn’t involved at all. He lives in the same town but never engages. He cries to people, and says he misses them, but he gives them nothing. He spends insane amounts of money at the pub weekly and on expensive drugs. And I wonder how they taste, knowing that the kids may be hungry. Ă‚Â He never goes to school performances, sporting events, nothing. Doesn’t think to buy them food, school shoes, school fees, nothing! Will my boys be alright? Can I be an adequate role model for them after they saw the worst in him? The drunken ranting, the physical threats, the jeering, the humiliation. They have a good child psychologist, and I’ve helped them through a lot of anger by explaining to them what calms me in times of recent crisis: that their father is sick and feeling angry at him is destructive and pointless. Hate is a terrible thing to harbor in any heart, especially young ones. He is ill. And we’re moving on and focusing on the bright future that is our lives without him.Ă‚Â
Thank you, everyone. Thank you for helping me to understand the man that is the monster that I was married too. Ă‚Â I feel like I am in such good company, reading your words. No one seems to understand anywhere else. So many people started off feeling sorry for him, even my own family members! Some still do and always will, and blame me for leaving him. He is so good at crying. He loves to play the poor me card. I’m not crying! I don’t have time anymore! I have three school aged children, I work 5 days a week, and somehow I am supposed to be able to do this. And it’s an honour! He wants the world to feel sorry for him so that he can continue to manipulate everyone… He’s isolated me socially and turned me into the pariah… But time will tell. The proof is in the pudding. Actions speak louder than crying! Dignity and grace! As long as the kids are happy, safe, and warm… As long as I don’t have to spend another moment in the cage that was my marriage to him.Ă‚Â
Thank you for listening and for sharing. I cannot thank you enough. You have helped this little family through the toughest times we have faced.Ă‚Â
You’re all so awesome and so brave for being so open and giving!!!
Thank you thank you thank you…
My turning point wasn’t one thing, it was many. After my brother died and I needed support that my husband couldn’t give on any level was a big red flag. He treated my mourning as inconvenient and was angry and annoyed that I was so broken. But I still stayed. Then he started drinking a lot and threatened to break our sons fingers. That was big, too. But I was so scared of what he’d do to us if we left. The strange thing is, my body got to the point where it rejected the idea of being with him anymore and it, not my mind or my heart, led me away from him. My mind played tricks on me for a long time, and my heart was broken. But a part of me refused to be scared, refused to be taken advantage of anymore, and got me away from him. It took a lot of time though. 12 years of marriage.Ă‚Â
My parents were so relieved that I left him, but bless them, they never said anything or let on that they didn’t like him. They just supported and loved me through it. My dad did say to me recently during a visit that he was so sorry. Sorry for letting his daughter stay with such a mixed up person, but he knew there was nothing he could do. If he had said anything to me at the time when I wasn’t ready to hear it, I would have probably turned to my husband who would have taken the opportunity to destroy my relationship with my parents. He has tried that a few times since our separation. So tread lightly. It is, after all, a game to them. I love my parents for not getting involved but for being there to support me when I needed them the most. He moved me far away from them and only see them once a year if that, but we are closer than ever now. Just try and be patient and trust. She’ll get there!!!Ă‚Â
Welcome Finally phoenix!
Glad you are here and glad that things are pulling together for you. No sense in me telling you where the articles are if you’ve been here for five months! Just keep on reading and thanks for your post. Very very good advice! (((hugs))) and God bless.
Welcome Finally Phoenix, thanks for your story. You sound like you are thinking clearly and doing much better, gaining ground quickly. (I was a blubbering mess when I first began posting!) I can hear your strength and determination, a lot to be proud of!! Way to go!!
I wanted to add another post on this thread because I have been thinking about the Turning Point, and how we all at some point realized that we could no longer go along with our lives the way they were. My trouble was with our “adopted son” in his late teens who joined our family on false pretenses. For me there were two separate processes in getting away from him:
First, beginning to see over time that I had been manipulated by a self-styled “survivor” (his word for himself) who cares about no one but himself. My turning point was when my loyalty shifted from HIM to my SELF. I remember when this happened. I had suffered enough, tolerated enough, and grieved over my hopes for his life-change, at least partly. Finally I LEARNED enough to see the situation clearly, apart from his excuses and denials. His rationalizations for his horrid behavior were becoming more and more ridiculous.
I even said aloud to him, “I know what you are, and you aren’t playing me anymore.” I didn’t make a big deal about saying it, and he laughed it off. But, that is the only time I showed my cards, because after that I too got into “survival mode” and began planning how to get rid of him, behind his back. This was scary because I knew I was “betraying” him; I would be the lowest form of life according to him, a snitch who doesn’t deserve to live. I knew he would go ballistic once he found out I had “thrown him under the bus” (i.e., stopped giving him everything he demanded, including a place to live). He had already threatened to kill me over much less than this! But, my new loyalty was to myself, and I decided if someone was going to survive this, it was going to be ME!
Second, after that was the Action Point. Once my loyalty had shifted, I had to “play the game” and keep him pacified until I could figure out how to have him removed from my home and life. For one thing, I had to find the nerve to go through with it. I stalled, worried, and procrastinated for a few weeks. As time went on, it became clearer that it was HIM or ME. Sorry to be so dramatic, but the emotional (and other) abuse was bad enough that I finally didn’t think I could physically survive another day with the constant stress of being around him, of just being in the same room with him. If I came home and saw his vehicle in the driveway, I would turn around and go sit in a parking lot until he left and I could go home safely by myself. Like Chelsea said on the other thread (“I would rather be homeless than spend another day feeling soul-less”), something had to give… drive off a canyon, run away and be homeless… whatever happened, I just knew that ANYTHING would be better than the pain I was in. I am of course thankful we did not resort to harming ourselves. And so besides that dreadful option, HOWEVER my life turned out, had to be an improvement!
Actually, it helped that things were so bad. There was no choice about it anymore. What did I have to lose? He had taken my self-respect, dignity, my sanity. I was too wrecked to think straight, couldn’t work, couldn’t interact with my kids, my marriage was ruined, I couldn’t even focus on what another person was saying to me.
I think it was Oxy, the other day describing going through labor. I remember trying to “chicken out” of that too! When it was time to go to the hospital I tried to convince my husband and others that I was fine, I just needed to lie down for a while. Of course I was fooling myself! But I didn’t manage to fool anyone else, LOL. They insisted I was going, NOW! It’s another mindset again, that this hard work has got to be done, and there’s no other way but to do it. The labor pains are coming hard and fast, there’s no turning back. It’s do or die!
So one morning I took the plunge; I woke up and spoke to the person who could get things rolling. They took it from there. Yes, the spath went ballistic, but it all ended peacefully. He is a coward at heart, and covers it up with threats. The police pointed this out to me. I didn’t even realize that (this too) was a lie! None of what he had threatened to do ever happened.
I was SO happy the day the police forced him out!! I didn’t forsee my total happiness and freedom. You can’t know how great you will feel until you do it! So for anybody stuck in labor, who knows they’ve got to push that baby out, close your eyes, be brave, and JUST DO IT! You will be so proud of yourself too!
Dear Just dreamin,
I am so glad that things are coming together for you!!! That pushing against the pain is really difficult, believe me I know that one, when I ran out of cuss words I KNEW during labor I started making them up! LOL
Thank you for your warm welcomes. I have been a blubbering mess for a long time, but am having a moment of calm! It’s such a long process, navigating the road back to a sane place. I have had moments of total anxiety and grief… Everyday is an uphill battle of how to pay the bills, how to buy enough food to raise three kids, two of them very hungry pre teen boys, how to cope with the anxiety and disillusionment… Ă‚Â I have moments of doubt and weakness. For the past few weeks I’ve had a thought passing through to call my ex spath… Just to see how’s he’s doing. What on earth is wrong with me?! Is it my conditioning? I was abused as a child as well. I have 5 older siblings, two who were the abusers. I see how I’m set up this way, to make excuses for the people that I love, to give second, third, fourth, fifth chances… I see how I was such easy prey. And still possibly am. I’m so tired… So vulnerable. I have no family around me, I have three kids depending on me… The pressure gets so heavy sometimes to cook, clean, pay all the bills, balance work, life, car payments, energy bills… I feel so overwhelmed. And he’s sitting at his friends property, living in a shed, paying no bills, no taxes, living rent free. He’s untouchable. The courts can’t make him pay child support… He doesn’t have a job or claim an income. But he works and makes far more than I do. And he only has to support himself! I have to constantly remind myself that he is unwell. Sick and untreatable. That I may as well view him as dead. He’ll never help. He’ll never see. And as tired as I get, my children are a blessing. Dignity and Grace. With a lot of yawning!Ă‚Â
I worry sometimes that he’ll find us, track down where we live now. We moved up into the hills because he was driving past our house too many times. Now we live 25 minutes up winding roads away from his house. He doesn’t know where. I tell myself that I’m not afraid, living out in the country with the kids. I have overcome a lot of fear. But still, in the middle of the night… It gets a bit nerve racking when I hear our pug dog barking and I think, is he here? But with fear, I learned through my therapist that it only exists on the physical. It’s a reaction that we have that turns on the adrenalin… And there’s nothing more empowering than that. People moves mountains when adrenalin kicks in. So if he ever does show up, yes, I’ll be terrified. But 30 seconds later, I’ll be terrifying! I’m a mamma bear! I’m learning to live with such thoughts. I mourn the loss of a lot of my innocence, but I welcome it as well. I am no longer as naive. I’m a lot stronger. And much more discerning! He would have loved manipulating me all those years. I was such an easy target. Ah well. Live and learn, I guess.Ă‚Â
Dear Finally phoenix,
Your description of your life now describes what many of us were or are going through….it sounds too me though like you are doing well considering the circumstances.
I hope your kids are doing well and helping you with some of the house work and other things that go along with it all, and hopefully healing from all this drama and learning from it too.
You might consider going to Dr. Leedom’s blog “parenting the at risk child” (children of a psychopath) for some support and information. Raising kids in these situations is a challenge of its own.
If you are not comfortable with a weapon, one of the defense weapons I recommend and another gal on here does is A can or two of WASP SPRAY. It shoots a stream of insecticide about 20 ft, and it is about $5 a can and you can have a can on every level surface in your house and in the car….and it really does make a great defense weapon. Oven cleaner is another one, though it doesn’t shoot as far, it is more likely to do some real damage.
I also live back in the boonies…but I have no problem with weapons so I am cautious, but not living in terror any more. Good luck and keep on learning and growing. It does get easier.
(((((((((( Phoenix ))))))))))
I soooooooooooo relate to the stress of having to take care of your children, pay bills, car payments, etc….all by yourself. It’s VERY scary. It was one of the reasons I stayed in my marriage so long. He made good money and he used that to create more fear for me in not leaving.
I was also very sick when he left, physically and emotionally, and he stalked me even though he had already secured another victim.
Such a power thing with these freaks. Phoenix, I wish I could tell you that, monetarily, things will be easier, but raising children alone, particularly in this economy is VERY difficult. I still have two left at home, but they are older now, 17 and 16. The one thing I can tell you is that God has ALWAYS provided for us. Whatever we needed we had. What you have now is worth the stress of the financial responsibilities that you have….peace. And a TRUE real gift given to your children out of love and safety. When times get really tough, just stay focused on that. You’ve so done the right thing for yourself and for them.
It does get better and as time moves on (and if you’re really fortunate, he will STAY OUT of your lives as mine did), it will be a distant memory for you. I have a feeling you’re going to be just fine. GIven when you’ve been through, you seem very well grounded.
Mine eventually got bored with the stalking and moved out of state with his new gf. I did all the kids activities alone. That was hard too, but if he was there, he would have ruined it, just like he did many holidays or events.
You’ve done the right thing and again, even if it’s a struggle financially, it will be SO WORTH IT!
Blessings to you.
LL
Not sure if my partner is a full blown sociopath…for sure a narcissist…but the turning point was a process and there was more than one turning point. I lived in HIS house. Of course, it HAD to be that way for him because he needed that control…that way he could kick me around a lot more if it was his house.
Gee! sometimes these chat rooms are so frustrating…I just typed an edit that was at least 2 pages…and I think when someone else posted, my screen flashed and I can no longer find what I wrote!! I am starting all over. Later…
Dear emi,
Doesn’t matter if he is “full blown” or not, if he is selfish, dysfunctional and controlling, he is NOT A GOOD BET FOR A RELATIONSHIP. That’s all you need to know. He is TOXIC. You are FREE!