Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
Nmare,
In my opinion, its whatever works for you…as long as it is absolutely working. A lot of people do the contact/no contact dance…and somewhere in between get caught up in false hope, wishful thinking that pointing out all their BS will somehow shed light on them and they will all of a sudden get it and change…Aint gonna happen tho!
Some people are able to, and are strong enough to do the wean dance..simply because they arent ready to cut it off completely…but they also arent in denial…so in rare cases it can help them wean out of it. But that is very rare.
Some people keep getting caught in the endless dysfunctional cycle and the absolute only way to get out let go and move on is NO CONTACT…
Again its all individual and situational…but more times than not NC works for most. I say WHATEVER WORKS FOR YOU, WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO, WANT TO DO, YOU WILL DO IT. Sometimes it takes multiple setbacks time and time again to see that contact is not only prolonging but increasing the pain and anguish and denial.
I was able to wean out of it that way for a year…but then I realized this person really could care less if I cut him off at the ankles or weaned him…i was merely entertainment for him and i think they believe it increases their odds of getting us to WEAKEN again, and fall victim to their never ending games. I went NC on xmas day! It only mattered to me, not to him. Now all that matters to me is I got off that trainwreck..and am sailing through life again!!!
GL
learnthelesson says:
Some people are able to, and are strong enough to do the wean dance..simply because they arent ready to cut it off completely”but they also arent in denial”so in rare cases it can help them wean out of it. But that is very rare.
Thank you for your reply. Definitly not in denial. Guess it’s the old keep your enemies close thing. Easier to defeat. This does make one stronger. Wish I learned it all when I was younger, driving my kids nuts makin them read about these hoaxs.
I think, If possible It’s beter for the individual to break free of the Brainwashing! That’s not always possible if the perp is family or child or divorcee, That has got to be the worst! And sooner is better! The sooner we can put it behind us and move on, heal from the Tramua and regain self worth ! The sooner we realize there is Lots of Love and Hope and Fun still to come in our Lives!
I ‘thought’ I was weening off the S for years….I was well aware that I didn’t deserve to be treated like I was, lied to, abused, manipulated…I was just not aware they were all behaviors of an S. I knew they were wrong, but as I weened, he was able to velcro me back in with the ‘niceties’ the I love you more than anythings….all words I so wanted to hear to believe my fantasy was not going to end. I would prepare, and then throw it all out, feeling guilty that I wasn’t giving the relationship my all and maybe he was at that point. Maybe it was me, maybe this, maybe that, maybe I, maybe…I tried every which way and backwards to make it work, blamed myself, changed myself….. I wanted the relationship, I wanted my family, I wanted our kids to have the father I just knew he could be. When I became aware that all the behaviors were of the Anti social nature, all the time that I had been told..”he’s not going to change”, hit me like a ton of bricks! It was true, the promises were empty, we were just a front, he didn’t love us, he couldn’t he didn’t even know how to love himself. The more I learned the more I saw, he is classic! No doubt in my mind.
So, for me….the weening was part of my process, but it also provided a mind f&*c along the way. I allowed it to. I don’t know how I could have avoided it. When I went NC, it all changed for me. I took it serioiusly, and he didn’t take it well at all. I had shown him for years that I could be sucked/velcroed back in with empty words, but not now! He was thrown for a loop. Let’s face it, the way we deal with other relationships in our lives is honest, open, we communicate on that level….if we could communicate with our S’s on that level we wouldn’t have a need for no contact. It is a ‘suck in spit out’ continuation. We want to believe, but there is really nothing to believe in those relationships. We will never have ‘closure’ from the relationship, never an easy grieving process….it just ends. NC is the only way I can see to cut the ties to avoid being sucked in at weak moments. (And we all have them, expect it!). we want to be loved, we want to hear the words, we want the fun, nice, enjoyable times….if we had it we wouldn’t be so unhappy in these relationships!
After the deposition yesterday, when he stood by the door waiting for his attorney, my attorney and I were idol chatting with his attorney wrapping it up and in front of everyone he says from across the room in a somber voice….’I love you erin’. That was his hook, always. I showed no emotion, wouldn’t look at him, picked up my purse, laughed with my attorney and carried on like he was invisible, like I didn’t hear the words.
I guess that was my que to run over to him and throw my arm around him to let the attorneys know WE were in charge now???? WTF? He sat there for 2 hours and lied, lied, lied and ends it all with an I love you?
So….for me I think weening was my easing out form of staying somewhat in denial, as I moved closer to the end…..NC was my life saving move. After almost 3 decades with this man, I do not regret having NC at all. I plan to go to my death never speaking to him, or giving him another ounce of my direct attention for his benefit. I relish the thought of the day that I don’t think about the pain and anger towards him, I know it’s ahead of me….but he will never, ever be in my life again, on any level.
Good luck and keep educating yourself. The more you see your ‘story’ in others it will help you gain strength and know your not alone.
Ntmare:
I think you need to seriously ask yourself: (1) what exactly am I getting out of this relationship and (2) do I like the person I have become in this relationship?
From what I’ve picked up you’re still getting sex. Other than that you two are heaping abuse on each other. So, that leads to the question why do you want to keep your “enemy” close? Does she owe you money? If so, good luck getting it? Do you think you can control what she’s going to say about to you to others? Not going to happen, since the smear campaign is a given.
As for the sex, since these creatures have no emotional content and you’re getting abused, hire a pro — at least she’ll treat you well for the hour you’re with her. Speaking from personal experience, by the time S was done bleeding me emotionally and financially I realized I was his whore. Except whores are at least honest about what they do for their money. I think you need to get really honest about why you want this person in your life.
As for soft landings? Fuhgeddaboutit. I look back on all the time, emotion, love and money I wasted on S and so dearly wish that I had cut him out of my life a year earlier and instead invested my resources in a worthwhile relationship with an actual feeling, caring, loving human being.
ErinBrokovich:
Although I really enjoyed your report of your deposition and applaud you for not rising to the “I love you erin” bait, there is this little part of me that really would have love to see you turn the tables on S — run up, embrace him, say all the magic words – and then dump him on his sorry ass. Hey. A guy can dream, can’t he?
Matt, love reading about your dream (LOL).
Can you imagine if we all got together some day … in a big city, went out clubbing and ignored all the N’s (male and female) hitting on us all night? They’d think there was something in the water.
Peace.
like many S, my ex had (has?) a white collar drug problem that spanned the course of our 17 yr marriage…i finally got healthy enuf and left with our 3 young children, to a nearby town, much more densely populated than the 70 ac in the middle of nowhere home that he relocated the family to years earilier to fulfill a dream of his…. he is every bit as charming as all the current books and authors warn..he is a successful businessman and quite adept at hiding large sums of money and his spending is limited to himself and his kingdom…
i have spent way too much money trying to “find” what he has misrepresented… i could not… they are excellent manipulators and hire lawyers that closely parallel their character…they are not only toxic, but quite caustic, by my experience..
there is no “co” part of parenting that he is willing to do, but he does have a need to posture as if he is… he is hell bent on wearing me down and financially draining me…
but i am free enuf…
i truly believe the very best “revenge” for lack of a better word, is a life well lived… the S is totally baffled by peace and serenity… happiness is something that completely eludes them,
especially for those S whose consciousness is not totally absent, but severely fragmented…. and it is becuase of this part of basic humanity that they lack that i can find a small degree of compassion and quell my anger at their inappropriate, neglectful and downright evil behavior towards our children….
i am the rock for our children..
i am the safe harbour..
they “visit” with their dad and take what he can give.
they are learning to ask for what they need, and are slowing understanding that they must walk thru the pain of not getting it.
i am willing to let them hurt..
i’m not happy about it, they are mature beyond their years, much of their childhood has been lost… it is what it is.
i believe this “live and let live” approach to dealing with a S in your life while children are young is the only sane approach to a life well lived, and certainly a gift any victim able to break free from the emotional entrapment by a S deserves.
Matt:
You crack me up, keep dreaming baby!
My immediate ‘inside’ reaction was to laugh it was so pathetic! Plus the thought of the roadkill in his shorts,
reminiscing about his bout with irritable bowel during the depo….that was classic to see him run out of the room!
But I did tell my attorney (after the depo), as he submitted a pathetic settlement offer to us, prior to depo (Yeah, okay). One of the terms was he wanted his child support lowered to $100 monthly….I returned with….I am only willing to consider that he pays as much for his children as he spends on drugs monthly! Privately with my attny, I offered that I would like to help him out with his attorney fees….I will pay for his cute, young attorney on his behalf, (my attorney looked at me oddly, like hmmmm)….. I said, of coarse with ‘sexual favors’.
BTW…I called the president of the small family owned company S worked for and inquired if it was standard practice for their company to pay employees with ‘sexual favors’ in leu of paychecks, as was stated under sworn testimony by the S and just HOW was that reported to the IRS?……it was the girls father….do ya think a fire was lit there?
HA-Ha ……Love ya too….
freeenuf4me, I hope when your children are old enough (I haven’t read your story, so I don’t know the ages of your children), you allow them to log on and read this site. It is the most informative site on the net for comprehending what these folks are all about.
I’m glad you are away from him and your children are safe with you. You all deserve the best that life has to offer with no strings attached, no games, no manipulations, no lying and deceit due to ulterior motives of another.
I hope some day that the mental health field can work these folks backwards through their problems and free them from the original SIN then clean up the multiple SINS that blind them COMPLETELY. They to need to be freed of their demons. I don’t know who my heart breaks more for? Us? or Them?
Peace to you and your family’s hearts and souls.