Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
Dear Oxy,
Thanks, I googled the fins petition in my state. It also says in the information that I read that the the teenagers are usually in various stages of being in trouble with the law or juvinile delinquency of some kind.
However I am going to call the health department in my county tomorrow and see they know anything about it.
You know when it is all said and done, and I am here by myself in the “quiet” at night, and I think…..IT IS the depression that scares me the most right at this time.
Because even on the low dosage I did see an improvement. AND until we were in the downward cycle again, since he quit the meds, I guess I didn’t even myself realize that those meds were making an intolerable situation, just a LITTLE bit MORE tolerable.
His irritability was still very prominent, the signs of depression were still evident, mood swings galore, and the lies and manipulation did not magically disappear, nor did the bad behaviours. BUT that light at the end of the tunnel was softly glowing….I guess that little bit of “hope” I had was getting me through each day.
When you put one foot in front of the other going through the “system” on a day to day basis, hoping your paving the way for a result of some kind or even a begining to a result…..It is pretty disheartening to find out that my son hasn’t done enough “harm yet”, or broken the law yet and been arrested, or attempted suicide.
Why does a person with a mental illness that is under AGE HAVE to BREAK THE LAW or be a drug addict, in order to be able to get court ordered inpatient treatment??? This really is a bunch of crap.
What does breaking the law and depression have to do with each other? AND is this really written down somewhere in black and white?
I mean is this in the MEDICADE bylaws? Or do they send “memos” to judges, & psych/md, to keep them up to date?
I guess I am really ignorant where the law is concerned and I would think that PREVENTION with at risk teens would be equally important. PREVENTION of suicide. PREVENTION of drug abuse. If they are at RISK by GOD HELP them…Don’t wait for the worst to happen.
All,
I logged in before under the username sgbrown and decided to change it to something less identifying…just to be on the safe side. You never know.
I’ve been separated from my ex N/S-N/P (still trying to figure that one out for sure, but it’s definitely an “N”) for a little over three years now. I spent a long 7 years under his spell, constantly allowing him to make me doubt myself. He had me so messed up psychologically that I contemplated self-mutilation. I had never had those urges before in my life and haven’t had them since.
I met him at the end of my first loveless marriage, in 1998. He was the typical con-artist telling me everything I wanted to hear. I believed the fairy tale and all of the empty promises. Like all abusers, he worked quickly and had me trapped when I became pregnant two months into our relationship. That’s when the true colors came gushing out, and at that point it was far too late for me to just walk away. He knew that, me being a child of divorce growing up away from my father, I would stay with him for the sake of my daughter. I did until I just couldn’t take it anymore, and I realized staying with him was hurting her more.
About 5 1/2 years into our relationship, I had some kind of revalation and “woke up” from the fog. Out of nowhere, I stopped allowing him to control me and abuse me mentally. With no other means of control, the abuse became pysical. My daughter witnessed him choking me and pinning me to a wall many times, and hitting my head against the neighbor’s door (they also witnessed it) in a drunken rage. I drew the line when my daughter’s finger was slammed in the door while he was trying to keep me from coming into the bedroom to either get my things and leave, or call the police (I don’t remember which). I told him to either get out, or I would file a report with the police and social services. He left the next day to stay with his parents and moved out a few weeks later.
Since then, it’s been a child custody/co-parenting nightmare. I’ve realized that co-parenting with an N is simply not possible. He also duped me out of the home we bought together by backing out on the agreement to pay me for my share. I lost about $20,000 that I will never see. He later sold the home and made probably about $50 to $100k. Although he has been married to his new victim for two years, he still hasn’t let go of having to control me. The only way he can do it now is through my daughter, and he never misses an opportunity. I see her suffering so much and it’s heart-breaking.
His first wife and I are very good friends. She is the only person who can really understand what I went through. She also has a daughter with him, who is now 21. She didn’t figure her father out until a few years ago. His daughter and I had a horrible relationship when I was with her father. In true N style, he pitted us against each other for his own enjoyment, taking advantage of our jealousy of each other – which only fed his narcissism. But now, I feel like she has a lot of sympathy for what I endured during those years. Her focus, and her mother’s as well, is on the relationship between the sisters. I’m thankful to both of them for being so good to my daughter.
I live in Europe and don’t have much of a support system. He has his mother, step-father, sister, and wife here backing him up and stroking his magnificent ego. To them, I’m a horrible, abusive mother. They do nothing to support me and do very little for my daughter, who is also their family. I am the enemy, and they make HER pay for it.
okay..i didnt sleep well at all..and now I dont know if I am being paranoid or not..but I dont have a good feeling..last night on eof my neghbors had a break in..I live in a security condo however my balcony faces the street..the intruder climbed his balcony and was breaking glass and causing quite a disruption..it was about 11pm…people were awake and lights on..it was odd…the stramngest thing tho is noone knew what was going on a few of the neightbors came out and I though it was an argument and someone was \throwing dishes or something anyway…needless to say..the intruder WALKED away ..walked right out of the building slowly…I was standing on thr balcony and he walked right passed me..I am on the 2nd floor so I saw him clearly…he got away but I felt so weird….I may be paranoid..but when my ex S lived with me a few yrs ago..I was robbed…nothing of his was taken..it was devastating and traumatic..at the time he insinuated he thought it could have been his ex wifes sister..who was in to druhgs….anyway back to my point..I have cut contact with him he cannot reach me at home or on cell..is it possible he is trying to scare me…Im really freakin out here!!
A break in can be a very tramatic experience…I had my bedroom window broken a few years ago at approx 2;30 am and woke up and was terrified! Didn’t sleep well for 2 years after that. It really feels like a violation when someone breaks into your home.
11 pm sounds like an odd time though, to be breaking into a house where people are still awake etc.
Did you talk to the neghbor? I think I would try doing that, just to see if they think someone they know might be trying to get back at “them” for something.
Then you could at least have some relief knowing it wasn’t you that was meant to be targeted. And that might offer you some comfort.
Many robberys now days tend to be drug related(want $$ & stuff to sell out on the streets) and are done when people are NOT home. It always seems somehow more scarey when someone is trying to get into a house when people ARE home. That is what scared the hell out of me.
If you still feel really parinoid maybe it would be worth talking to the police. And have them cruise by where you live on a regular basis at night. Just as a precaution.
Dear Witsend,
I havent been able to read all of the posts as of this morning. But just a thought as I am now reading your post from yesterday. Im sorry for the challenges you are experiencing…I have no clue why it has to be so hard for families in this situation. My prayers are with you and your son daily. Im glad you are doing ok and sorting everything out and figuring out your best options. Has your sons “pediatric” doctor been involved at all…I think you said he is 16. I still take my 16 year old there…they can do all of the blood work there (at least so its documented) and even prescribe certain meds… maybe you can simply tell your son its time for ” his annual physical”…they can also perhaps give you more suggestions and or be helpful if an intervention ever happens. Also the last annual we had they offered for my daugther to be seen without me :(( she said “Awesome”… it gives them time to talk about things (unprompted) and the Dr. even asked questions about depression, drugs, etc.. Your son may open up in a way that the Dr. feels great concern and will help advocate for you as well….also its possible your son may not say anything at all…but it might be worth a try!!! The pediatrician could admit him on the spot!!!!! Just a thought….
You’re right about the trauma…it was horrible when the break in happened and the way he handled it..looking back baffles me now…I think my neighbors break in last night triggered something in me..(hence the paranoia)…I feel as if I am letting him get back in my head again..and its not good..I have to stay strong
lernthelesson
Up until a few months ago my son had a different insurance coverage. The doctor that he has had for his regular check ups and when he was sick does not accept medicaide. So medicaide has “issued” him a doctor. We have never been to see the new doctor yet.
It might not be a bad idea to make an appointment.
Because of my son can barely get out of bed in the morning and always tired I would imagine that a regular MD would run some test on him. I would thinks that if he asked a few questions he might determine depression in a first short visit. However my son wouldn’t take the meds anyways. But this all would be documented.
I have said this before, but the more involved in the system I become the more I am convinced. If he had a rare form of cancer he would have more treatment options and more support in the medical field than he does with a mental illness.
I know that sounds cynical, but the fact is if he had a “medical condition” rather than mental condition, he wouldn’t have to break the law or be abusive or run away from home to get the proper treatment.
I am really not trying to be cynical, I’m being straight up.
Dear Witsend,
My prayers continue to be with you. Without making dumb remarks about the seriousness of teen depression, I still feel it’s important to support you in your concerns.
The depression is the issue. Unfortunately, drama queens play at hurting themselves for attention. Such people rarely go through with suicide. It’s ironic that the system is more likely to reach out and help a cluster B playing head games than it is a good teen with a serious depression problem.
Keep clamoring for help. Exhaust every avenue. I’m pretty dumb when it comes to getting help in situations like yours. Listen to people with more practical experience than I have.
Remember, summer’s coming. It could become your salvation. If you can get your kid outside in the sunshine every day of summer, he may climb out of the worst of his depression. Then you two can talk about preventing depression in the Fall. If he gets a summer job, try to make it something outdoors that requires physical activity. I don’t know the ins and outs of health insurance, but I’ve got a lot of experience with people who suffer depression. They often get better under the circumstances I describe. Remember, such recoveries only last until about October. They have to have A PERSONALIZED PLAN to get through the doldrums of winter and the stress of the school year.
Elizabeth,
Don’t ever underestimate yourself! You have ALWAYS had just the right advice to give to me. Your a very smart lady. You were also the very FIRST person who responded to me the first time I wrote.
You know the worst thing for me is THAT I DO NOT overreact when it comes to suicide. I believe my sons counscelor has that opinion. As a matter of fact I believe I know more about it than the average person because I have read so many books about it, went to suicide support groups and heard hundreds of true stories, and not to discredit my own real experience with it.
My husband showed NO signs, even in hindsight.
The fact is that depressed people commit suicide every day. and NO ONE really knows if a person is crying out for help, or they are going to get the job done. Once its a done it is a done deal.
Depression leads to suicidal thoughts ESPECIALLY in teen agers. There is no question that my son is depressed…I have never in my life seen the outward signs to be as obvious as in my sons depression. So when thoughts of suicide enter ones head, who really can evaluate what a person is thinking? And who can determine when something goes from being a passing thought, to end the pain, into a real plan to end the pain? I don’t believe anyone is qualified to know what someone is thinking. We have to look for outward signs.
I am worried about what “effects” if any, it had on my son for being on the medication for a short while, getting a “bit” of relief, going off cold turkey and then being “jerked back” to how he was feeling previous to the meds…..Kind of like when you have a shock to your system. Going off the meds, is it like a “shock” to his brain?
I am feeling “beat down” today. I need to get past it….
I guess what I meant to say instead of we have to look for outward signs.. All we really HAVE is outward signs.