Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
Dear Witsend,
Welcome back. Glad you were able to get a slight reprieve from so much confusion although it must always be on your mind, Im sure. I hope your dog is okay.
I wish we had all the answers for this. Or at least something that jumpstarted the process for your son to take medication, or seek therapy, or open up more.
Erin Brockovitch shared a post that was really valuable in that she walked the line with her teenager — unlike me, she has experienced this firsthand and has some excellent insight and advice as well. I think once you take everything coming in to you from school and doctors and friends and firsthand experiences you will be able to put a “formula” of sorts together that will help you get through this..
Here are some of my thoughts…. So how was the few days with his brother. You mentioned to Oxy that he either manipulated his brother that things were fine or pretended ? What did his brother say to you? This is valuable information in that – perhaps he is able to “open up” or “settle down” or “feel most comfortable” with his brother. OR maybe some kind of manipulation there…but again if the time spent was uneventful – or he was just hanging out with his older brother and all seemed well — Witsend — this is encouraging. Frustrating to no end, but none the less encouraging to me. And it means more time with brother!!! Whatever it takes to get the pendulum swinging in that zone – uneventful, settled down, even keeled… whoever it takes to bring that out in him — is key. Whether you believe him or not – the point is we want more of that behavior right now. Every little bit helps.
My other thought is this about the letter. WRITE IT and put it on his bed as soon as possible. This is nothing to do with appearing vulnerable. This is strictly from you heart to your son – about your love for him. Whether it falls on deaf ears (which I dont think it will) or whether it jumpstarts communication or shutdown overload — the point is no child can ever receive enough I love yous written to them. It is surely not an answer, it surely is not going to change a whole heck of a lot – but its going to be there for him, whenever he wants to read it – and thats all that matters. He may be depressed right now, he may be showing signs of personality disorder – still write the letter from your heart about your love for him – no mention of meds, failing grades -difficult times. Just mentioning his choice to say “you dont love me” and your choice to say “I just want you to know that couldnt be further from the truth…I love you…
You wont be interacting with him when you write this or when he reads this. In fact take a walk when you know he will be reading it. There will be no ability for him to change the subject or feel attacked (because its a loving letter) and because you have yet to see/analyze what he chooses to do with it. It will be good insight to see what he chooses to do. And again, the expection is he may do nothing or he may do something. Its irrelevant..the goal is to express your genuine love for him, nothing else. Whether depressed or disordered…it can never be the wrong thing to do. You will not be vulnerable or emotional if he acts out about it (which I dont think he will)…you will remain on course and simply take note of what his reaction was.
As for the lying, If it were my teenager, I think I might actually consider taking some creative positions with it…but Im not sure what the content or context of the deceit is. For example, if it were something I could make light of in a joking way “oh my goodness, did you hear what you just said silly….you said “blah blah blah” thats just so silly because its not the reality or realistic.
If he did not do any of that lying twisting with his brother…then Id consider taking a back seat for a while, low low low confrontation, let him make his own web, in fact change up/mix up your own response/reaction. Make him wonder wow — how come Im not getting to mom like I use to, the novelty may wear off. Again, you have to be creative and try things for one week, a full week, each time. Be it saying :there you go again, I just cant agree with you on that one – but it is a funny one you silly kid….(ALL THE WHILE BITING YOUR TONGUE)…or simply being non reactive and sort of outspeaking him in mid conversation..dulling him out… about NORMAL EVERYDAY THINGS, The dog, your work, when his brother is coming next, meals, his job, literally take control and change the ambiance in your home — always acknowleging him but going right into you wont believe what happened at the vet today (dont pay any attention to his response or lack of response — unless its a positive reaction – go with it!)
So what in the world am I suggesting? For you to dig deep and get creative and try to sort out what works, what doesnt work, and most of all to stay unemotional, nonconfrontational…my point being look how much time has passed – you went through the eye of the storm with him – and are still going…days are passing…and things are steady…confusing but steady….this is an optimal time to find out what he did with his brother for two days…and an even more optimal time for you to switch it up …from the letter …to working with counselors privately…to deciding what your theme will be this week to rule in or out –whats going on with him, what he responds to, what he shuts down…all the while you are nonreactive..nonemotional…taking mental notes..or going off to write in a journal what just took place!
Do the unexpected. In good ways. Unconventional ways. Temporarily see what works/what doesnt work. It seems like so much and it is. But I literally just put myself in your shoes from what little I know about the lying — and aside from what Erin Brockovitch has shared and shown us that– after all we can do, they basically have to live their life and find their way and make their own mistakes and see the consequences themselves…And I wholeheartedly agree – but that wouldnt stop me from writing the letter or from mixing it up (the way mom all of a sudden stopped reacting or really took on a personality of lightness and changed subjects and tried to captivate him in daily random conversation just to get the focus off of him — with him now knowing you are hanging on his every move and every word (if he is manipulating) — switch it up!! Nothing to lose.
And I dont mean a game, or taunting or trying to make him angry. I truly mean one week deciding the theme will be thats so silly, oh my goodness did you hear what you just said — thats a good one — I gotta try that one at work…lol lol…where do you come up with these? Or one week totally letting them slide (the lies) and just pick up mid conversation with another topic….exhausting?? yes… waste of time?? no clue…worth it?? absolutely… what do you have to lose with each passing day while you are working with school, doctors?? nothing!! The insight you will gain will be so valuable, and who knows , the themes can be endless and one might actually jumpstart some kind of change – or you may hit something that really screams – THIS IS WHAT IT IS!!
Again, unprofessional advice, but what I would be doing…creatively…to see how my teenager reacts/doesnt react/starts to change or is shocked by me for a change — within that particular week — as I am troubleshooting with school and doctors…. Just some thoughts
Dear Witsend,
((((hugs)))))) toyou this monday morning which doesn’t sound like one starting off well for you. Good luck at the vets.
Your son seems to obviously be DENYING reality for sure. I can’t believe the counselor would not check for him/her self with the school to verify the client’s “progress” with his grades. DUH!? Or with you. Maybe at either 1 out of 2, or 1 out of 3 or 4 sessions with your son, the counselor can have you come in and “verify” your sons “reality” of how he is doing so that you son can see that he cannot lie to the counselor about these things and get by with it. It might be interesting to see what his reaction would be when confronted with the lies to the counselor.
My son found out that if he kept parents/school/friends/ etc separated from each other that he could more easily “get by” with his lies. Even before we knew what was going on with him he was developing a “secret life” at school….riding to school on a shiny red motorcycle (stollen) but hidden from us because he knew we would not allow him to have a motorcycle. But he wanted on to show up at school on, for his “persona” that he wanted to project….
People who have personality DISORDERS can ALSO be depressed, or be bi-polar (depressed one day or week and manic the next) or any other number of mental illnesses. Having one doesn’t preclude having another 1 or 2. In fact, many many times they seem to go together.
I can’t make a “diagnosis” over the internet by any means, and neither can anyone else (not a legal diagnosis for sure) but it sounds to me (I am a retired mental health advanced practice nurse) that your son has probably 1 or 2 other problems than just the signs that I would call “conduct disorder” before 18 years of age—-which is one of “criteria” for a legal diagnosis of psycnopathy after age 18.
Your son sounds a great deal like my son at that age, and there is no doubt that my son qualifies in SPADES as a full blown criminal psychopath. I’m not saying “give up”—but I am saying that TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF is also very important….there is no way you can FORCE your son to do anything….even go to school, much less study….or anything else for that matter….on an outpatient basis.
If you can’t get him into an inpatient program of some kind, then your son has the steering wheel of life in your home. It also sounds frankly like he KNOWS this and if you “bother him” or try to keep him from being independent and doing what HE wants to he just balks like a mule or sulky ox.
I could see clearling, like you can see, that my son (at that age) was INTENT on doing what he liked, damn the consequences, and he was headed off a cliff and ignoring my warnings that he was headed for prison. I tried everything I knew to do, even turning him in to the police when I caught him stealing 100s of thousands of computers from our friend’s business (which was computer dependent) etc. He is still over 20 years later totally pissed that I DID THIS TO HIM. He has NO remorse for any crime he committeed.
I wish I could be more hopeful that your son will make a turn around, even with medication, but unless medication and GOOD counseling together are tried (and I see that only in an IN patient setting) I can’t see that there is ANYTHING that will help him.
You have tried to do the best job of parenting that you were able, but sometimes (like with the boy’s father) they take matters into their own hands, take the “bit in their teeth” and run with it. Feeling helpless to stop this was to me the most hurtful feeling I have ever had, but we just do the best we can, and realize that SOME SITUATIONS ARE OUTSIDE OUR CONTROL…..NO MATTER HOW URGENT, OR HOW MUCH WE WANT TO CONTROL THEM. ((((hugs)))))) and my prayers for you and your son.
Witsend
I can relate to the going away and coming back.
Just got back myself from band competitions for my D. Took my son and off we went. Sad part is that it was held where we always took the kids on summer vacation at the NJ shore-so lot of reminders the 4th person was missing.
But we did have fun and I was better this time than I was last summer on my own.
You are right – soon as I got off the NJ Parkway, I realised I was back to the grind, and problems and of course the voicemails to deal with.
And I pull in my driveway and see her car and I get stomach rumbles immediately.
I had to psyche myself and say – geezzz – look what she REALLY has!!! HE did not drive the 2 1/2 hours to see our D but he did drive 1 1/2 hours weekly to see his last affair. Three hours on the road for sex but not 5 for your daughter.
I have to constantly monitor my thinking processes – especially when I have to deal with the voice mails.
Will this ever go away??? Or is it a life sentence because of the kids????
Dear Learnthelesson & Oxy,
The dog hopefully will react to the treatment. It is being treated right now as the lesser of the 2 problems that might exist. If this doesn’t do the trick she will be x rayed for a tumor.
learnthelesson, interesting that you would say to react to his lies in that manner. I have actually been reacting in a similar manner to what you have said. (for a couple weeks now, maybe about 2 weeks) I don’t necessarily say the “silly” part. But instead of confronting, (as I did) I do take a lighter stand and say how do you come up with these things? Or do I look like I was born in a pumkin patch?
When confronting I always had to DEAL with the argument that would most certainly follow, the TWISTING of words, or how it “never” happened that way, blah, blah…That was EXHAUSTING & could go on forever. Especially since the lies are so fluent.
I DON’T however feel very good about making “light” of it because the fact is IT IS STILL WORKING for him, so to speak. He still gets away with it. Everyone tip-toes around it.
However the constant “battle” over the lies didn’t work either.
The weekend with his brother was without alot of interaction. He only spent a few hours with him (fri night) because my older son had to work on Saturaday so he dropped his brother back off at home early am sat morn. Friday night they just were on the computer. My younger son BROUGHT his OWN computer to his brothers house to hook up because he hasn’t internet service at home since I disconnected it the other day when we had the “talk”. He has never even asked about it, why I didn’t restore the internet…..It’s kind of like just another thing that has “happened” that he acts like it never did happen.
My older son did not “talk” to him about anything. (I asked) My older son is getting married in a month and I feel really bad that during this time, planning the wedding etc, what should be a really “happy” time for him has been somewhat clouded (on my part especially) for what has been going around here with my younger son.
He said he didn’t EVEN want to get into it with him. He does manipulate his brother into thinking everything is fine, including his school issues. And he DOES DO the lying twisting thing with his brother but it is on a different level as they don’t spend alot of time together.
Right now my older son is really involved in his upcoming wedding (as he should be) and I am feeling pretty guilty that I haven’t been able to be carefree and happy everytime I talk with him. (as I should be)
Erin did have lots of suggestions. And if my son was even one year older I believe I would be EXACTLY where she is as far as just letting it go. Realistically I have also looked into the boot camps and places of that nature. NO WAY could I possibly afford such an option. And I have taken somewhat of a no nonsense approach to the idea that if he doesn’t do “his part” as far as responsibilitys, (respecting me, teachers etc, school, job) he doesn’t have the “perks” he might take for granted. (such as internet service) At this point he is NOT grounded. That isn’t why I didn’t reconnect his internet. He totally disrespects how hard I work to make ends meet and I hear this in an “abusive” way often enough. In his “unrealistic” state of mind he actually believes he can move out of this house at 17, get an apartment, internet service, phone, blah, blah….He doesn’t even DRIVE! He wouldn’t have a job if someone didn’t get him there.
I am in the process of actually just cutting back to meeting his needs and not his wants. I think he needs a dose of REALITY. And trust me he WAS not spoiled as so many of his friends because I am a single mom. I never had the money to spoil him in the manner most of his friends are.
Problem is my son CAN’T seem to stay “focused” on ANYTHING long enough to make it happen. even if it is something he seems to want.
I guess I am still thinking that I have a VERY SMALL window of getting him help….. I have NO IDEA why he goes to school? Even his friends can’t be real impressed with him sleeping in class and flunking all his subjects. Maybe that is why he seems less connected with them at this point in time. By law, in my state he could quit without my permission.
As much as I hate to say it I don’t see him going to school next year as I said he seems to think somehow miraculously he is going to be a junior. That is not going to be his “reality”.
He went to summer school last year and didn’t finish the course (its all computerized) work at your own pace….So he didn’t make up ONE credit last year there is no way he is willing to go this year and make up four credits. Plus it would cost me $250.00 per credit and if he isn’t going to apply himself, that would be money THROWN out the window that I don’t have.
I would bet that he will sign himself out next year rather than doing his sophmore over again. He is if nothing else somewhat predictable when it comes to school. (NOTHING else with him is predictable) AFTER the weekend it is sheer HELL getting him UP & getting him to go to school…..By mid/end of week it is also more difficult. Sometimes by friday when he goes to school I almost think it was like a miracle, that he went for another week. I’m not exagerating.
I just believe that for now it is in everyones best interest that he does stay in school. Its only another month. Once he quits that is another DONE DEAL.
Because he seems to take these conflicts of school and manipulation, and lies, control issues, medication refusal, etc, almost like feathers in his cap….It would just be another “feather”.
But what then? I have a 16 year old kid that has quit school, refuses medication, shows signs of depression/mood/personality disorder, has no full time job and no vehicle or drivers licence, (to even get a job) is manipulative and a liar, doesn’t have any respect for myself or other adults especially when it comes to rules, or expectations of behaviour…….Can be very verbally abusive…
If something doesn’t GIVE in the next few months I see all of this in the future and then some. He is on a very slippery slope. He has taken his defiance of authority from just being defiant/abusive at home one step further by doing this at school with the teachers….NEVER did this before VERBALLY until recently. so what is next? The law? Possibly….
I guess that is why I was told by his doctor to apply to the court for the incorrigibility. This can only be done before he turns 17. It is a somewhat radical approach, I would say, but it is also, at this point a way to introduce the “court system” in an intervention way rather than HIM breaking the law on his own and having to deal with the court system by way of consequence/punishment.
I do not see any good that this may do for the depression but I do see that it might be an option for the behaviour/personailty behaviours. Does that make any sense?
Thanks to everyone for allowing me to share so much recently. We are again switching insulin doses for my son…and we are either at home on weekends or I am where I am now…moved into the school nurses office…he comes in every hour to be monitored and either administered insulin and/or checked. And I havent reached anywhere close to the comfort level I need to be with the nurse/subnurses injecting him.
In fact, I probably should consider becoming an RN…since Im going to be in the nurses office for years to come!! LOL Cant believe how many children visit the nurses office each day (had no consideration or awareness of it ever)….and some of the reasons are actually unbelievable! Summer camp is soon, and Im certain they wont let me have my own spot in the nurses bunk, so I have to start weaning myself soon ..:) Unless my blackberry can let me log on from time to time! 🙂
Anyway, I learn so much from all of you…and am constantly reminded to stay on course with my learning journey and healing journey and growing journey in my life with my son and family and friends (including the ones with screennames and no faces 🙂 — who have been to all the same places I have when I was in an unhealthy relationship and some who are leaps and bounds ahead of me! Thank you all.
Dear Witsend,
Hoping your dog is on the mend and no need for an xray!!
Something crossed my mind today about your son. It has to do with him losing his father, and where he may be with that in his life…from middle school to high school…and the prevelance of “fathers” involved with sports and in general…and having to deal with his fathers absence. Since we are troubleshooting – is there any way he is struggling with this loss in his life?
In terms of making “light” of it…I meant in such a creative way that you “jump in” to conversation that is totally off the subject. That you almost didnt hear him or cut him off and stick to in the moment conversations. Like about the vet visit today. More involving him in things that he really isnt expecting to be. Like, Im going to need you to help me with his treatment plan. I cant explain it…its almost a drastic shell shocking switch from the way things have been – but not in an intrusive abrupt way – just making the atmosphere different — you really leading and taking control of the “lightness” —
My best example is my 16 year old came screaming out of her room DO NOT TAKE MY COMPUTER OUT OF MY ROOM – her voice was loud and authoratative – I was actually scared – and she is the sweetest sweetheart Ive ever known. But she was exercising her ability,…testing it…trying it out on me….I looked at her and I imitated her (she didnt expect it AT ALL, NOR DID I)…but I said In the same loud mimicked tone ITS IN YOUR ROOM UNDER YOUR PAPERS, BUT YOU JUST LOST PRIVILEDGE OF IT FOR ACTING AND REACTING THAT WAY…but because I mimicked her in such a way she actually laughed (caught her off guard). I took her computer away and she stopped laughing…but it was in that moment that I knew they really do try to push buttons bigtime at this age.
I think you have some questionable and valid issues dealing with teenage depression and personality disorders. And I think Oxys experience and Erins experience is something to lend a lot of merit to…and following through with an intervention is probably key sooner or later.
Im just suggesting in the meantime, you have nothing to lose by switching it up. Mixing it up. Testing the waters back with him. In a lighter fashion. Not excusing or allowing any bad behaviors. But catching off guard…being different…acting different consistently….and seeing what in the world he does when you are including him more “need help with grocerys” or taking a car- ride in a parking lot with him if hes interested…or asking his brother to include him on the prewedding errands (making a date to go with brother to get this or get that (does he live close by?)
Again, I just think some creativity and mixing it up a bit…while you are sorting out a plan, a direction, gathering information, seeking out interventions, court orders if need be… and the letter, in the meantime can only prove to be possibilities for some relief, since nothing else seems to be working. Its a long shot, but thats something I would be considering to help get us through this – totally doing the unexpected – rather than the expected, predictability he is banking on when he walks in the door.
Dear learn the lesson,
You and I do tend to think on the same wave length…When I took my son in for counsceling that is WHAT I believed created the “issue” to begin with. Like more of a PTSD. The “after effect” of a of boy in puberty with the unresolved issue of the suicide death of his father. I spent the entire first visit with my sons counscelor wanting to know that I covered that topic/fear.
My son told the counscelor the same thing he has told me over the years. That he was so young when his father died that he doesn’t remember having a father so he doesn’t know what he is missing by not having one. And although that SOUNDs like a nice “healthy” response I have a hard time buying it in retrospect of all the “issues” he has since he was about 15 years old.
The thing is there has been an ABRUPT change here. He went from being a pretty normal/average 14 year old into someone I barely recognize.
I have BEEN through male puberty before. All my friends have kids in there mid twenties. I have shared with them some of the problems their kids had while growing up. There are some VERY trying times with any teenager. My older son went through a period when he was about 17 years old that was difficult. He was angry that he wasn’t “privledged” by $$$ as many of his friends were….Meaning that he didn’t get a newer car when he was of driving age, a cell phone at a young age, the money to pay for a college education…..Things like that. He had to earn these things himself. He directed/blamed, his anger at me because I had divorced HIS father many years before. His father had always filled his head that I was the one who initiated the divorce…blah, blah…. I tried to NOT PUT blame on his father over the years about the divorce (he cheated etc) because that was his father….(and not my place) I knew as my son matured he to WOULD see the LIGHT with his dad. I didn’t have to “paint” the ugly picture my son would see for himself. His father is a very self centered individual. He never did right for his son as a child/teenager and he wouldn’t do right by him in his approaching adulthood. He NOW has formed his OWN opinion of his dad and it is RIGHT on! My older son also saw a counscelor for awile over his anger over the divorce.
Getting back to my 16 year old… His problems seem anything but average teenage stuff. A MOTHER KNOWS these things. I have seen the DARK side. Just glimpses but enough to KNOW what I don’t want to know.
I have likely hurt my son (the older one) during his pre wedding “year” by focusing so much on his brother….Who knows if I can EVER make that up to him, let alone his bride to be….? (whom I love) Most of my friends don’t “get it” and are likely sick of hearing about it. This disorder/depression/combination of WHATEVER it is can be absolutely exasperating to describe to someone who has not experienced it. I have most likely alienated some people in my life just by going through this experience.
The more I read about the experience of a sociopath relationship in this blog the more I did NOT understand. The one thing I had problems understanding is how a person wants to go BACK to someone who has abused them in so many ways. And I am begining to see that it is like an addiction of sorts…Almost like a “spell” that was cast. An illusion. Just like a junkie can spend their entire life chasing that first high. The high is NEVER the same after that. But the chase for that first high is the “hold” on the junkie. Chasing the illusion. When it FELT GOOD to do the drug. I was told by a recovering junkie that the first “high” could never be duplicated again. It is what draws a person into the “seduction” of drugs but it is like chasing a rainbow.
First the romance and the “promise” of wonderful things to come. The whole “soul mate”…I am whatever you want me to be PROJECTION that the sociopath offers. So you fall in love with an illusion NOT the reality of who that person actually is. And then after they have reduced you to as low as they possibly could, they are gone. There is no closure or explanation, no understanding of what, why or how this actually DID happen to you. LOTS of QUESTIONS, LOTS OF PAIN but NO ANSWERS. Sometimes even BLINDSIGHTED.
This is exactly how it feels when a love one exits your life by suicide…… LOTS OF QUESTIONS, EXCRUCIATING PAIN but no answers, no closure. Just the ultimate rejection. Until the pain is delt with it is impossible to move on. Impossible to accept the reality of the situation or to grieve the loss. This is where I am somewhat able to grasp a LITTLE bit of what it feels like to be in the wake of a sociopath romantic relationship. It took me many, many, years of therapy, suicide support groups and a LIBRARY of books on suicide. I have come to the place where I would like to write my own book!
I believe my son has some of this pain. It isn’t on the surface. It has been long repressed but I believe that it would be impossible for him NOT to have it. Many kids face some issues at some point in their lives over their parents divorcing. And this is common (parents divorcing in this day and age). Kids have many peers within their “group” experiencing the same thing they are experiencing.
My son is pretty much alone in his experience within HIS peer group. none of his friends have dead fathers…they have if anything more than one father figure. Real dads and step das etc.
So why the mental health experts wouldn’t expect my son to have some underlying issues with a suicide that he was thrown into at the tender age of not even 4 years old is beyond me.
Suicide is not all that much different than sociopaths when it comes to what the medical profession has to say about it. They can study to their hearts content but they don’t know on a PERSONAL level what a suicide survivor knows anymore than they can know what a sociopath survivor knows.
12 years ago when I read every book I could get my hands on about suicide I ALWAYS got MUCH more out of a book written by a suicide survivor than I ever got from a book written by someone in the medical profession.
I don’t know if a medical study has ever BEEN done with a 4 year old boy who spent an entire day ALONE with his father after he blew his brains out. As harsh as that might be it is the reality of the situation. The chances of this being somewhere written in the medical volumes are slim to none. So these doctors in my estimation are ignoring a key factor.
I never got much “help” with the therapist I went to after…I got much more “therapy” from the suicide support group. My son doesn’t have such a group.
This is where I have a hard time taking the approach that this trama did NOT affect the outcome of what is going on with him today. I have never “projected” to my son growing up that this SHOULD/WOULD be an issue in his life. So I am not trying to “put” something there that doesn’t exist. It just makes sense to me that as he grew up he wouldn’t understand it all. I DON’T understand it all and I understand it alot more than I used to.
I can’t change what happened and I can’t change what is happening now. I am sure that I have made some mistakes in raising an at risk child. I had no proper experience or a “how to” book back then. I can’t change that either. I did the best I knew how to do. All I can do right now is exhaust every avenue that I can find to try and help him. I am still in that process. Although I feel the end is nearing “closer” because of his age I am still in the “fight” mode to be his advocate. Because I do see that small window of opportunity still. Some days I am closer to giving up than others, when the doors keep slaming. Somedays I feel like I am going into a war zone without any soldiers behind me. ALONE. Other days I feel like maybe, just maybe, someone out there will “hear” what I am saying. So I keep knocking on those doors.
Dear WITSEND:.
My heart feels for you!
So, find the soltice were you can, love your doggy and your son, but especially LOVE YOURSELF!
Dear Erin B.
Wow….I think we are on the same path….I swear. Even down to the dogs! My little Boston Terrier is blind to. And I had feared that she might have a tumour. The vet is treating her for the lesser of the 2 evils. She can’t keep food down. If this treatment doesn’t work she will have the xray.
She is 12 and she is my shadow….I pray that she makes it through this. Now is not the time, if you know what I mean.
It sounds like your son had a melt down….Has that ever happened before? (the melt down part)
Does he suffer fron depression? BiPolar? Does he take meds now & do you see a difference in him if he does take the meds vs not taking them?
I am thinking this IS good Erin…The melt down….
That vacancy, I KNOW that. “No one is home” when you look into their eyes. But a melt down means he is in there somewhere. And unless that was a manipulation tactic you have reached him at least for now…..
If he has entertained the idea of ending his life it is possible that he has a fear of that. And that fear maybe has made him reachable?
Does your son ever have a major outburst such as in the car and then act as if it never happened? My son does that alot. Something will happen and he will act like it never took place. It could be a major outburst or even just a “not so major” and yet his reaction is it never took place, or he never said that or whatever the case may be…..SOMETIMES his “lack” of reaction concerns me as much as the outburst itself….It is during thise episodes that I feel he has very little grasp on reality. And it is hard to know where the lack of reality ends and the manipulation begins…..Do you know what I am trying to say? Do you experience that with your son?
My son can also be caught red handed in a lie and he has no reaction to that either. He doesn’t even defend himself in his lie.
This is a hard one to put into words……Its as if because he isn’t owning up to the lie, it ISN’T a lie and it is still FACT in his mind, so there is no reaction, whatsoever. Again….Like it never happened.
Do you think your son will follow through with the army? Does he have that focus to follow through with things?
Dear Witsend,
Keep thinking about you and hoping things are going along as best as possible. I have an Aunt who is in her late 70’s who happens to Email our family daily and works at the YMCA a few hours a day and never forgets a birthday and is always updating us on everyone in the family…and she is the originator of our family and her friends/community Prayer/Love Chain…if she gets wind of anyone struggling or suffering or just in a bad place we get an Email that says “Jump on Board”…and inside it says…this is a prayer chain for “WHATEVER THE NEED MAY BE”…..
My point…. there is one out there for “All the LF Members and their pets”
🙂
I didnt even have to give any details…I just know most of the state and surrounding states are praying for everyones safety and recovery and health at LF!!!!!!!
My 73 year old Aunt gets the job done! (or def tries :))