Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
ps. If I posted her real age she would stop emailing me :))
hi everyone, as if dealing with my ex spath boyfriend isnt hard enugh i am coming to learn my older brother is spath. he been living away from our family in another part of this country i live in. we last saw him 8 months ago he came to our state for my sisters wedding, while here he totally used my parents home as a pit stop, borrowed money and basicly was cold and arrogant to my parents while staying there. my mother who is salt of the earth type of person said to at this time she thought it was weird how is never affectionate with any of us even after not seeing his parents for a long time. he is a grown man by the way middle aged. well the sign i saw then and other inklings ive had for some time like his grand love of his slf despite being a failure in many ways for someone hisage and other things ive seen over the years was making me think he is a sp. it breaks my heart to know this as ive been damaged by sp s my self. how horrifying to have my closest brother be one. well the story goes on. so we saw him 8 months ago by the time he left my parents were over it to say the least obvious he was using them for a free ride y again and borrowed money from them, they are old age pensioners by the way and strugling so this was not nice. so he did not make contact afteer he left for the 8 months not cchristmas, not birthdays not any special days no ph calls to my parents or any of us. my mother started worrying knowing how reckless he is . she thought something may have happened to him. she was trying to put it out of her mind but i could see she as worried. well her and i were talking about it and i said we should call the police in the state he lived and say he is missing, also relatives who live there heard nothing as well. my mum lost another older son to a car acident years ago so i think sh was thiking of this when we hadnt heard from my brothr also.she did not want to call the police in case he had done something wrong, so i said to call salvation army and see if they could look for him. she said she wanted to wait, o against my better judgement we did. i was worried about my mother. then my uncle says to her he is getting mail for my brother hospital bills.he had an accidnet at work before my sis wedding but said it was covered by work cover ,so they were paying his bills. this seemed so strange caause if that were true then bills would be sent to the place of work or insurence not a private address for him. so red flag about his accident for me. anyway we hear nothing from him. then sudenly out of the blue he rings my mother and says he has been depressed and not gettig work, so he is coming to see them in our state.she was relieved he was still alive at least. he has by the way never said he was depressed bfore in his life . so now he is here staying with my parents eating them out of house and home no job no money and behaving the same as last time only a llttle bit more polite and trying to keep in with them. he doesnt seem to think they are old and poor tehy can not afford this. he has however signed on for unemployment benefits, as i said he should. he knows i am onto him but thinks my parents are a bit silly adn dont realise his game. he doesnt seem depressed at all and is going out evry night. he is not affctionate towards my elderly parents at all. and when they said why he not call them for such a long time he jsut said he was having a hard time and trying to sort it out him self. he is a m sure addicted to pot but doesnt smoke inside my parents so sneaking around like a school kid to do this. his life seems to slipped by no home no wife children and god knows what he was doing when we didnt hear from him living o the streets maybe who knows. he acts like his life all good. i am trying not over react and be high and mighty about all this. but its my parents i feel for how disapionting for them . most his freinds are now married and families he doesnt really have anyone here anymore just us. i do feel sorry for him but i know these typesof people how they suck and suck the life out of yu. he is my brother how ever i have the hard way but sps. my mum is smart she is waking up to him and asked him when he signed on to unemployment as if to say you better . and toinght my dad says he drank all his beers in the fridge never replaces any. i said dad you have to be one step ahead of him we all know that now. tonight when my father drove me home from visiting with them we drove past a street to see my brother walking along the road goin the other way it was lateish, he looked so well hopeless walking around at night alone like that . my heart sunk as my father looked out the car window at him. my poor parents .my family is not wealthy all they live for are us the family. so now they wait to see what hapens, does he get work and pay his way. he only wants to doo construstion he is not young and well to me not that fit i dont know if anyone would employ him…. my parents dont really want him to stay ther with them they are old and is lifestyle doesnt fit with them. they want a quiet life. it is expensive to live around here i dont see him affording a place . maybe to share but things just never work out for him he seems to move around and change jobs a lot. i just feel perplexed and it unsettling me now from my own experience with sps. i think my parents liked hi m not being here at least they ddint have to deal wiht it as long as they knoew he was ok. im sure he lies about most things jobs, he says he ahs a girlfriend back where he was staying, im like well why didnt he live with her. he said he didnt want to. i dont think there is a girlf riend. my older sister also knows he didnt ccontct us.she seems to not notice his behaviour or else she doesnt want to know. sometime s if i say things about this to my parents they get angry and say we help you too, but i work and rent a property and i look after my self. with them getting angry ive tended to stay quiet about it.but its wearing thin already on them with him i can see. he doesnt seem to mov e on in life and i think there a lot of things we dont know about him. like the accident he had he isnt telling the truth i am sure i think he may have been attacked or something awful. its a bad situaton were all just trying to be happy and live a good life. what should i do any advice from others with a family member like this would be great.
Witsend:
Oh how we relate! The dog situation, my dog is 14 and with everything…I so don’t want to lose her. We have had so much lose and adjusting to it. I tried to prepare myself and told the kids, the vet even talked to the kids about saying the goodbyes….we have been saying them for 10 months now! Amazing! I think she must be aware of this, because she has pulled through so many times. I didn’t have the money to do tests, so the vet took a shot in the dark, although he could feel all the tumors on her kidneys and colon. That shot worked for us. I changed her diet and cook rice for her and mix it with her food….she eats like a horse now, always hungry and always drinking tons. There has been a million accidents in the house and I bought a steam cleaner for those…..I thank god the S isn’t around, he would have done her in with the first accident. S balked at the court about me spending $500 last year on vet bills….the judge was shocked with his lack of compassion when he also stated it was the kids dog…..he said, it’s only a dog, they can get another one! Boy was he wrong on that one…..the judge remarked, that applies for husbands too Mr. ‘S” !
At x-mas we were so shocked to have her with us, like I said, I literally have a hole dug in my yard. It was so awesome to have her enjoy her annual x-mas bone with the kids and I next to the tree! Just love your pup’s and enjoy what time you may have, whether it’s a day or another 5 years!
When it rains…..theres always a hurricane! Ya know?!
Yes, my son is a regular melter….every 1.5 months or 2. He’s like a volcanoe…..he just blows after that period. Oh, yeah, they are always good ones….throw me near the edge. This is how I have gotten to this point with him…..I do think he likes the drama, he is comfortable with negative attention (that’s all his dad ever gave him), He watched me take the abuse for his whole life and now I’m out, he tests me. Always escalating the ante….up, up up. It’s like he picked up where his dad left off. I can always reach him, fortunately, after the meltdowns…..then he pulls away again. It is normal for them to ‘break away’ from the mothers at this age, and unfortunately he doesn’t have a relationship with the S. I reach out to any man that is in his life….Local Firemen, Officers, youth leaders, friends fathers…..whoever!
Most of the time he is so out of control during these melts, that there is no way he can ‘run’ from it. I won’t let him. This is where his options got him. I can’t ignore it….they are just way to abusive, and if I ignored it….I am sure the physical would be involved….because he is an ante upper. Can’t go there….for sure I would have no choice but to shut that down and go to the police.
His thing is arguing, he will tell me that I said something (which I didn’t) and in his head this is how he justifies his melts….I deserved it. I’m still holding on to the denial that it’s just a mixture of his grief, anger and teen. But I am affraid he’s heading for S. Definately passive aggressive. Defenitely lies, really doesn’t care about it, unless he get’s caught before he get’s away with whatever it was he wanted. He is RELENTLESS! exhausting for me.
But your right…..he’s feeling something and it’s coming out….I don’t believe so productively, but it’s coming. Like yesterday, he had a great therapy session……I spoke with the therapist, but by bedtime he said he couldn’t remember what they had spoken about and had no clue what ‘his’ plan was.
I just got a call from him…he’s at lunch at school. He called to inform me he was taking the recruiters test today and had a meeting for next week set up.
Eesh…..it’s so not what I want for him, but I see it as his only possible choice, since he is not willing to kick in on his own.
Yes, he is reachable at times…..but NO FOLLOW through! Pure avoidance. But life is coming up on him fast and he is not prepared for the real world. He has mastered the fantasy world and avoidance, but that only get’s you so far.
Good luck with your life today wit.
At times, we must take it hour by hour.
Erin B,
Today my son was suppose to do a detention at school for missing assignments in one of his classes. He CAME home right after school (I usually pick him up) but he just showed up at home (way to early to have served the detention). I asked about the detention and he said HE DIDN”T have to do it, as he looked it up in the “rule book”….And “they” couldn’t make him.
The teacher has already informed both my son and myself that if he didn’t show for the detention he would be reported to the asst. Principal and would have to serve a mandatory detention with the PRINCIPAL and if he failed to report to that ONE he would be suspended from school……
So today he has crossed another line….For the past 6 months or so he has gotton worse with the RULES do not apply to him. But this will be the first time for him pushing it this far to face suspension at school.
I am pretty sick about the whole thing because if they suspend him I am UNSURE if I will ever get him through the school door again. I am afraid this might be a part of his “master” plan. He is getting bolder as each day passes.
My son WILL turn this whole thing around & blame it on the school rather than accept responsibility for his part. In other words the school kicked ME out so why should I go back?
This is the kind of thing he does. Sets himself up. He is getting bolder as far as crossing the lines…..
Then later today he had a counsceling appointment and I went in with him. We started out together in his appointments for the couscelor to get the family dynamics etc.
Of course when I phased out he lied to the guy and told him all kinds of stuff like how he was doing goood in school, blah, blah…So this counscelor was under the impression that everything is better, the last time he spoke with me…..
It was awful….He left that appointment more angry than when he came.
My son argues to….That is his thing. And he sees only black and white. Right or Wrong. No grey areas, no other peoples opinions, and there isn’t such a thing as different perspectives. It is the way he says it is. There is NO POSSIBLE other way to see it, percieve it, or have an opinion of it. If you don’t see it his way you are wrong! Period…End of discussion. This can be over simply……What came first the chicken or the egg? Or something of importance. It doesn’t matter.
I figure it takes two to argue and WITHOUT a lawyer present (to defend me) I can’t even talk to him much about anything that would be an “issue”…..But even with picking my battles it take a WHOLE lot of energy & a TON of focus (on my part) just to get through any discussion…..He twist and turns everything until I feel like my brain is fried…..Like the egg on the commercial. This is your brain….This is your brain on drugs…
Such as the school thing…..He says they CAN’T DO THAT…But the school will if they see fit. And he will still insist they can’t and I’m afraid it will give him the excuse he has been looking for to not go back to school.
Today was not a good day….
ON the upside my dog is so far eating her rice and cottage cheese and keeping it down. Bless her little heart.
I asked if your son was ever diagnosed with depression or bipolar? Was he ever on any meds and if so did you see any RESULTS on the meds?
I think even if the times that you can reach your son, come and go….The times you CAN reach him are a positive thing…..And if these are predictable…First the melt down, then the “reachable” stage, I would research that a little. Or ask his therapist about it……The fact that this is predictable might be important somehow. Maybe he is Bipolar?
As much as going into the military might not be your first choice for him, I’m not sure if it is a bad idea? ESPECIALLY if he is WILLING to go….For one thing the discipline….My older sons friend went into the military, shortly after high school. He came back a different kid. HE had all kinds of problems with authority when he left….Not in a severe anti social personailty way, but more just an arrogant, hard headed, kind of kid. His arrogance has turned into self confidence and he is a different person!
I feel like my son is taking everything to another level….His ability to shut down , the passing blame, lack of whats REAL and what is his “own little world”. I do fear for him.
I’m with ya on the hour by hour….I break it down some days by minutes.
learnthelesson
I appreciate every single prayer….The folks in your aunts (we don’t have to know her real age) generation are the wisest people on this earth. I have a huge respect for people of retirement age and older.
Witsend:
Yes, mild depression….rx’d welbutrin and one dose of that sent him ballistic and violent! I made an executive decision to end that. Went back to the Psych and she diagnosed with ADHD and rxd (I cant remember at the moment) he took it for about a month… I doled it out every morning…but he didn’t like the side effects of dry mouth…. He did well during this time, focused more, was more present and his grades reflected this.
Now I can’t get him to take it. I think it’s a lazy thing, even though I dish it to him. I bought him a case of gum for the dry mouth and did everything I could to counter balance what he didn’t like…still won’t take it.
His choice…..now his grades are back down. Not that it’s the meds that do it for him…..it’s his ability to make the choices and focus.
Oh yes….they will take it to many other levels….it’s all looking for a reaction, I believe. shock value. Control of others to avoid their reality.
Of course…never any responsibility, always my fault, or the ‘douchebag teacher’, jerk boss, unreasonable this or that….I don’t know how to parent, no other parent calls the teachers, calls friends parents to check up on them, yada yada….bad mom, bad mom.
I tell him, Im not here to be liked by you or be told how to parent you…and I dont expect you to like any of my parenting. He does recognize when we get along or arn’t. But even that is evolving in the negative direction.
I have gotten very cynical and resentment building towards him and what he chooses and his affects on the family.
To be honest….I have very little hope that he will succeed in the military. I am not even sure if they will accept him, with the ADHD meds and Astma. His track record of ‘pulling it out with determination’ is nill. He has not determination. Of course I don’t want to see him under a bridge somewhere for a bit. But I have come to realize….It’s his choice. It doesn’t have to be this hard!
They say enjoy your child when you still have them at home, because they will be gone in no time…..and I feel guilty at times for wishing the next year would pass in a flash. I just can’t do the abuse and severe negativity. I am divorcing his dad as he allows his dad to posess his body and mind! It scares the heck out of me!!! I never imagined my child would make these choices, we would be living this life, and feeling nothing but trying to rush time through…..I didn’t expect it all to go peachy, but this one is a HUGE challenge on my strength and ability to survive.
Oh yes….the ability to shut down, the blank look…..it’s disassociative disorder. We all use it at one point, but they have taken it to an unhealthy level and use it as a ‘coping’ mech.
Like i said, we need to feel the pain to feel life, live life and feel love/joy etc…
He has no concept of time, I describe his as one of those fluffy cotton like weed that you pick and blow into the wind….he just floats through lifes wind, changing directions with the drafts, with no focus or care in the world.
I know what you say about the fried effect. I would look forward to school and melt myself. I don’t have much time to do this, because of my pending hearing….I am so prepared and want to be over prepared, so I come out with no regrets that I could have been more prepped for the S. I am determined. But I think I am going to have to shut down and take off when I hear the divorce is granted. Let loose, take my airline miles and go somewhere. Leave the kids and life at home and just disappear. Hopefully, next month, maybe by the end of the year!
Yes, my son has big dreams, fantasies…..and as much as I raised my kids as you can do whatever you put your mind to concept…….
this one has a concept of his own……one day it’s one thing, one day it’s another…..no consistancy whatso ever. He has always been like this.
It would be so much easier for him to get a better reaction from the world if he could just think about what he says.
It’s like…..one day, he wants to be a professional cage fighter….well okay, he’s never been in a fight, has a kind nature, is extrememly sensative and never had any kind of training…..or works in that direction. The next week, he’s going to be a pro skateboarder and be int he X games….but he doesn’t ride a skateboard, then he is going to be a DR, but hates school and doesn’t think about the schooling and dedication required to achieve his goals….
I just listen and say, that’s a great idea, I think you can do it.
He is very emotionally immature for his age, I know I coddled this one when he was young, protected him, thinking I was doing the right thing. Someone would bully him, and I would be right there. I didn’t realize his S father was behind all this.
He encouraged the kids to bully his son, to toughen him up….’he’s a wimp’. No kid of mine is gonna be a wimp. Sick, especially from a parent!
Oh, the arguing…..MASTERS! Everything is an argument! I am always asked the why question…give a simple reply and it’s argued with, Oh, i see this setup and refuse to participate. This is when he ups the anty. he will follow me around the house aruging with himself….he has followed me trying to provoke an argument for 3 hours at a time. I have gotten in my car and he blocks my car. He has set off the house alarm for hours. banged on my office or bedroom door. kicking in doors, punching holes in doors, throwing things out windows. It is nerve racking…..and intense. I take myself to the mothers ‘disassociative’ state to get thru those outbursts. Every door frame in my home has been kicked in. I have a lock on my bed and office rooms. I will go to my room and disconnect. He’s looking for a reaction. I will not.
The next day, that is when I drop the bomb. Restriction, cancel the phone, whatever, I do not even warn him any more, I just do it. He now knows what to expect with these outbursts and he doesn’t like it, but he knows I won’t give in.
So I can count on the melts about every few months. Last about 4 ish hours and then consequences.
He is very predictable.
This is why I chose to cut the cord…..he’s on his own…..it’s abusive and I can’t help him! It’s his time. I have always been here, I know he is hurting, BUT….it’s up to him.
As much as it bothers the heck out of me…..School is his choice, being late is his choice, not attending something is his choice, no call no show for work is his choice, taking meds (actually swallowing them… court order, dr order whatever or not ) is his choice. HIS LIFE and what he makes of it is purely HIS CHOICE.
You can only use excuses, whether valid or not for so long…..
BUT….I don’t have to support the negative behaviors. Life has consequences, and I can’t make excuses or bail him out.
I have to mentally prepare myself for the calls from the homeless shelter, jail, on the hwy whatever……Like drugs, I just have to ‘say no’.
Look at the Caley anthony case….look at her parents and with all the evidence of anti social behaviors, partying, blatant lies that she has been caught in, they are still holding on to her….putting themselves out there for her. (I know she is innocent until proven guilty), but so were our S’s….just because they are not convicted doesn’t make them innocent. They are standin by there child no matter what. There is a difference between enableing them and loving them. I’ts okay to speak the truth to our kids and walk away. We don’t have to be the ‘fools’ that deny what is in our face.
Yes, no parent wants to be in such a horrid , legal position with huge emotions and loss involved……BUT SOMETIMES IT”S NOT OUR CHOICE!
We can only do what we can do.
Ya know…
god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference!
I pray for wisdom for you and I both, along with all of our LF friends struggeling with the truth and realities of their world!!!!
I am glad your pups is eating…..LOVE YOURSELF, YOUR A CARING, LOVING MOTHER!
long story”but no my ex S has gone back to his wife who is a narcisist”he doesnt want to work..she will take care of him to keep their “picture of perfect life” together”he hates her..she loathes him but together they are quite the team..now they are taking me to court regarding support and custody of my son I had with him”confusing I know”but its even more diabolical..as she wanted him back so bad”she got them into a life which they could not afford”he left her and tried to come back to me”she made his life hell and wound up returning to her as he doesnt have a backbone to be a man and take care of hismself..anyway now she is losing her home..will be foreclosed on..she is pissed about that..he is mad he has to pay me child support..she wont pay it for him..which she shouldnt..so I have both of them coming at me TOGETHER as a huge force of crap..lies..deceit manipulation”.its craziness”all the while still claiming he loves me”it has to stop!!! its crazy just telling this twisted story
When reading those words Erin…Love yourself, your a caring loving mother….I just want to crawl in my bed in the fetal position and not get up. I don’t “feel” the ability to love myself right now.
Maybe it is that Mothers day is nearing. My mother died right before mothers day a few years ago….I remember the first mothers day without her presence in my life and how difficult that was. She didn’t live close by but the last 5 years before she died she moved here to this small town where I live. She was a WONDERFUL grandmother and her and my son had a very close relationship.
I can remember so many fond memories when she woud spend endless hours with him playing board games and just doing KID things with him.
Once when my son was about in 3rd or 4th grade after spring break the kids had to get up in front of the class and “tell” what they did over their vacation. My son proudly announced that his grandma had taught him to play poker over spring break! Sure enough when I asked my mom she had taught him to play poker when I was at work.
Another time when he was in 2nd grade my Older son (who was in high school already) ended up in the elementary school being a teachers aide for my YOUNGER sons class. He was all excited that his brother was going to be “helping” in his class until his teacher informed him that he would have to call him “MR ****” . He couldn’t just address him by his first name he had to tack “Mr” in front of it just like his classmates. He kept saying but hes a NOT a Mr….He’s my brother.
When my son was 4 years old and I picked him up from Sunday school his teacher said…..Do know that he can read?
I did know, and he had actually taught himself to read when I would read him his books at night and he was looking at the pictures he started to look at the words and sounding out the letters, forming the words, and pretty soon, reading the story to me!
As any mother could relate, there are more memories than there would be pages to fill them in….I wish I had kept journals.
When you reflect back to the innocent years it is hard to comprehend, what the hell happened?
Yes my son had a tramatic event in his young life. And although I worried that there might be some damage done by such an experience, the death of his father…NEVER in my worst nighmare was I prepared for what is happening now.
Having lost my husband and both my parents, I am not a stranger to grieving. Somehow I feel that is what I am experiencing right now. I seem to be in that “acceptance” stage of grief. The emotion that is surfacing feels more like I am grieving a loss……I haven’t given up on my son YET I seldom see “him” anymore. WHO I do see, I don’t know. The stranger that lurks within him isn’t my son.
That stranger brings out fear in me on many levels. Fear for his life. In both the capacity, that he might make the decision to end it….Or that the choices he is making, his grandiousity, his sense of entitlement, passing blame, his lack of reality….where will that take him in life?
I also have fear for myself. It’s really hard to wrap my brain around this. To fear your own flesh and blood. AT 16 YEARS OLD. What is wrong with this picture? EVERYTHING is wrong with this picture….
I watched his face and body language yesterday when his therapist was talking to him. He was stone faced. He was angry and he was in another zone. Without actually using this particular word “zone” his teachers have expressed their frustration using other words at how unreachable my son is.
WHERE does he go…? This void that is so apparant in him…Brings me to the most important question of all. The one I continually have asked myself… Is his own little world that he resides in his mental illness or is it a world created by him to survive the pain he feels inside.
And how can a boy, he is still so VERY immature and NIEVE in SO MANY ways, (he is NOT an OLD 16 year old)…..Yet he is so MUCH older than his years when he is lying and manipulating the adults around him. He is a multitude of contradictions…..
If he was put into a juvinile detention home they would eat him up alive….He is that nieve. That is what bothers my conscience the most about applying for the court order. The end result. Can I live with that?
There is NO DOUBT in my mind that he will end up in the court system ( as a consequence of HIS actions) if an intervention does not take place here SOON.
However I am STILL at the mindset that the intervention should be to treat the MENTAL ILLNESS. Depression/Bipolar. Hospital….In Patient treatment. Not incarceration.
If he is in a “mental fog” treat that FIRST…..I CAN’T MAKE the inpatient treatment happen? I have tried to no avail.
So what I am left with is putting him in a program that would be court ordered and could put him in in a detention center if he doesn’t comply? If he landed in the courts by his own wrong doings that is ONE thing. But if I start this process and he ends up there, it seems to me that is what I an HOPING to AVOID. Treating the behavior before treating the mental illness SEEMS BACKWARDS to me…
Is it because I am emotionally involved or is this putting the cart before the horse?
Dear Witsend,
You are, unfortunately, “between the devil and the deep blue sea”—the options you have been given are none the “ideal” one by any means.
I turned my son in to the law for theft, and he was arrested. I did this because I felt I had NO OTHER OPTION. I had long ago lost all influence over him, his thinking, or his actions. He was going to do what HE was going to do and he made it clear to me and his teachers and my husband that NO ONE COULD CONTROL HIM. He was right, no one could.
At some point at 15 or 16 years old he made a determination that he was HIS OWN MAN and would do what he wanted to and hang the consequences (if there were any) He was invincable, he thought. When I proved that at least the law could control him, he was still not influenced by that, but instead became ENRAGED at me….he did not connect the being arrested to having stolen, it was, instead, MY FAULT because I turned him in. He still bears a grudge against me 21 years later.
Even from his prison cell, he still tries to control me, to control the rest of the family and to run it to suit himself. When he found he could not control me, he decided to have me killed. Even failing that the first time, he has NOT given up.
Letting go of your aspirations for your son, the wonderful young boy that played poker with his grandmother, the bright intellectual shinning star who could have discovered the cure for cancer if he had applied himself, giving up on all these “dreams” for your son are difficult….I kept saying for years “what a waste of talent and brains” and it IS A WASTE of talent and brains, but without a conscience to guide those talents and brains, they become dangerous instead.
To be afraid of your son, your own flesh and blood, goes against “nature” and “nurture” and yet, that gut feeling is NOT off base….no matter how we deny it, or excuse it by saying “he’s depressed” or “he’s bi-polar” or what other mental illness he has in addition to the personality DISORDER, the disorder TRUMPS ALL ACES. My son too was a naive 16 year old without street smarts, but believe me he has developed a PhD in survival while in prison. He is a small white male in a prison with 40% blacks and 40% hispanics most of which are much younger and much bigger than him and regardless of what intergration in schools and so on has done, believe me in the criminal element, the blacks hate the whites and hispanics and the hispanics hate the blacks and the whites, and the whites hate the blacks and the hispanics (as a general rule) it is dog eat dog, and race against race, culture against culture. My son has had to learn to survive, and I have heard stories about how he survives (though he has taken some horrible beatings in the process) but one of his friends that I got to know after his release on parole would tell me how my son would “get up in the face of” some HUGE black guy and back the man down, because the larger man would not want to take a chance on attacking an INSANE MAN even though he was much smaller. But because he is aggressive even in the face of larger foes, he has a “personna” that is “don’t mess with me, I’m crazy.” It works.
He has also learned how to be a mediator and to not join a “gang” even the white gangs, though in a “rumble” he has to stand with the whites against the other races, or be cast out of his own racial group. He has learned well how to manipulate all races, and use the common enemy (the guards and administration) to stay alive.
I used to worry continually about his safety and to fear a phone call that he was dead or critically injured, but now, the STRANGER who is in prison, who is NOT my son, is not my concern. I do not worry about him, I realize that stranger has made his bed and he is lying it it.
My lovely young son who was the apple of my eye, my delight and my future, is DEAD and buried. I no longer have a picture of the STRANGER, the BAD MAN, in my home, but I do have hanging on my walls pictures of my deceased son when he was about 11. I think that is really the last time I saw my son before he was “kidnapped” by the bad man…the man who physically resembles my son, but isn’t my son.
It took me two decades to realize that they are not the same person. Two decades of dashed hopes, of pain and tears, and worry and concern, of fear and obligation and guilt that I was abandoning my son. I did not abandon my son. My son was stolen from me by the BAD MAN, the stranger who took him away and replaced him. I grieved for my young son, the apple of my eye, but he is NO MORE. As king David said of his son by Bathsheba that died, “he can return no more to me, but I can go to him.” Like David, who mourned while there was “hope” that God would spare the child’s life, and when the child died, got up, quit grieving and washed his face, I too, no longer grieve for what CANNOT BE CHANGED.
I accept what cannot be changed. I am finally at peace and acceptance. I no longer cast ashes upon my head, or beat my head into the ground praying for the impossible. I realize I did the best I could with the circumstances I was given, but the sack cloth and ashes won’t change things now. So I have put them aside.
Witsend I hurt for you, because I somewhat understand your pain, I was in pain myself when my son was that age and I saw him destroying himself….((((hugs))))) and my prayers for your peace.
Dear Oxy
I suppose I am writting here much as one would journal. Something about seeing things in words. Black and white.
Living through an experience is one thing and talking about it is quite another.
Your story again brought tears to my eyes. And I have read many parts of it before.
One of the things that actually DID finally give me a “light bulb” moment is something you said thet initself was a very SIMPLE statement.
You said that when your son was my sons age he had already made his decision. He was his own man.
My son says so many things and most of them are lies or means of manipulation. It is very HARD sometimes to LISTEN to what he IS saying if any of it HAS meaning or truth.
When he had his melt down with his geometry teacher last week he did say something to him that keeps coming back to mind. “You can’t help me”. He said more, but these words are the ones that keep coming back. In many ways he has repeated the YOU CAN’T HELP ME , using different words but with the same meaning.
He has repeatedly said that he wants me to LEAVE HIM ALONE. The teachers to LEAVE HIM ALONE. Counscelor to leave him alone. Same message, different words.
Through it all I know as sure as God made green apples that my son DOESN’T “feel” the love. He doesn’t know that I love him, he doesn’t see the concern coming from me or from ANYONE else for that matter. None of this is FOR him in his eyes this is all AGAINST him.
That is one of the real mysteries to me about the way he thinks. It is as if he has SHED his skin like a snake. That skin he has shed REPRESENTS his entire life up to the day when he became this stranger. It is as if his childhood and the closeness that we shared doesn’t even EXIST anymore.