Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
Dear Witsend,
Your post above is so right on, it is like they shed the humanity. He is right “no one can help him” because he will not allow them to. the old adage of “you can lead a horse to water” is so true.
You cannot reach him, he is out of reach by CHOICE, he does want to be LEFT ALONE to do his own thing, but at the same time he wants you to provide his room, board, a place to sleep, etc. but have NO authority or influence on how he behaves or treats you. It is like he feels entitled to service from you.
A certain amount of this “egocentrism” is normal in teenagers, but your son, like my son, has thrown down the gauntlet of “you will NOT control me” END OF CONVERSATION. He is right, you cannot control him unless he is willing.
Normal teenagers will comply with some things they hate in order to get things they value—computers, cars, etc. but the P won’t. I think sometimes the teenaged years are the WORST with some of the Ps, because you have the “normal” rebellion X 1000! Normal teenagers are always pushing you away and nthen coming back for reassurance, like 2 year olds, but not the P-teenager.
A teenager that was the most obnoxious normal teenager (after havin gbeen one of the most wonderful pre-teens) that I have ever known was my next door neighbor’s son, and I loved that kid, until he turned 15 and then I swear I still loved him but wanted to strangle him with my bare hands til his tongue turned blue—-and as OBNOXIOUS ass he was, I still saw good in him, but it was different than with my son, I start5ed seeing the EVIL attitude in my son, but blocked it out, denied it was what I saw it was….went in to denial to protect myself from seeing the truth, that my son was morphing into a monster just like my biological sperm donor.
Witsend, it is probably the most painfujl thing I ever did, was to see and recognize and NOT deny the truth. Your story makes me cry, because I could have written it 20+ years ago. EVERY WORD OF YOUR STORY IS MY STORY! My prayers for you and my compassi9on for wha tyou are going through. ((((hugs))))
Everything I read here is Deju Vu all over again (thanks Yogi). I had a court hearing this am with my ex. (See my story “LETTER TO LOVEFRAUD: Leaning on his family while battling his wife”). She moved away and lost her custody motion to move my children. She has been on a manipulative and discreet campaign of alienation against me which started over two years ago, especially with my 13 y/o, who now yearns to live with mommy dearest. She has failed to pay childrens’ expenses since receiving the court order last August and counter motioned to fire our parenting consultant and kid’s therapist because they testified against her in our custody hearing. I was confident that the Judge, who spanked her in the last hearing, would spank her again. I am now in shock after this am’s hearing, I got my butt handed to me by the judge. He clearly doesn’t have the facts, and in order to provide him the facts that would required a full evidentiary hearing which would cost me $100,000+. I think I still may win several of my motions from this am, but it is so stressful to know my wife and I have to deal with this P for years to come. She is pure evil, and won’t stop until she wins. That is the message, they won’t stop no matter how many times they lose as they have to win. Great advice from those on this forum. Keep the faith.
Be as cold and calculating as them in a row and that disarms them, be as silent as them and dont fret and give in, they either will or they bugger off full stop. Mine is difficult cos he a narcistic borderline. maybe sociopath
Can somebody please tell me…..if I close a child support case..so I can be done with this S…as there isnt any custody agreement or order in place…can I do that..just close it the child support case..not get anything..(like I ever would)…and be done??? please let me know as I cant deal with him anymore..I have an ulcer now from all of this crap! HELP
“Be as cold and calculating as them in a row and that disarms them, be as silent as them and dont fret and give in, they either will or they bugger off full stop.”
I SECOND THAT! It seems to work with
mine!
I am relentless right back at the S. Big day Wed! Hoping to get some satisfaction here!!!
Seriously, since I totally changed my behaviour after reading stuff here that gae me a bettre understanding my life has changed, I am not so needy nor ready to let things go, if he sulks I no longer beg and fawn over him or ask waht is wrong, I merely say ok when your ready to talk you know Im here..Then I totally ignore him, no more sleeplessness if its late i go to bed, its him who could not sleep..I put my ipod on fulll blast and just totally blank him off..I wa shocked when he brought flowers to make amends.
When he becomes critical or abusive Im staright back on it, I spare nothing.
It works guys, seriously works….but then I got complacent and stupidly thought I could be the girl I was previously..in time he slipped back..If I had not turned soft he would now be dancing to my tune still..but at least I kicked the bugger out..
OxDrover and witsend,
Your posts are helping me so much. My daughter was 15 0r 16 when she announced to me in an odd way, “you don’t know Me”. I looked at her with no idea what she meant. It is only now that I look back and recognise that that was the beginning of fifteen years of abuse in the extreme.
I have only just come out of the “relationship”, with my dentist psychopath” boyfriend” And to see this reality is too much for me yet. I have made the no contact rule and I know she would be happy about that at the moment. Because she knows I would be hurting. But she doesn’t no I am onto her totally. And I am weaning myself off her. I know it will be hard to do. Probably harder than anything I’ve ever done. But on the other hand it is a relief to do it.
I am still in denial most of the time. But I have stuck to the no contact rule so far. She didn’t contact me mothers day. And I felt relieved.
THANKYOU FOR SHARING YOUR STORIES. YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY HELP ME. X0
Dear Muldoon,
You handled it right, BUT, you said “If I had not turned soft he would now be dancing to my tune….” NOPE, not for long.
THEY MUST BE INCONTROL. His “being nice” was just a fake to lure you back and then to START ALL OVER AGAIN. They pretend to change but the NEVER REALLY DO. It is a PRETENSE.
Good for you, though, you had the strength to kick his sorry arse to the curb!!!! Keep it gone. Believe me he will start back the old crap and terror unless he has another woman who will take his sorry arse in.
STAY STRONG!!!! You can do it!!!!
Dear Tilly,
To cut off your own child is difficult, but to realize that the “child” has morphed inito a VAMPIRE, a RABID DOG, a BEAST, finally gets to the point that it is either accept the truth or die, or live in pain forever.
It is like having a big cancer on your heart, and surgery is going to be painful, but if you dont’ have the surgery it will CONSUME YOU.
The pain became too great for me to endure. NC was the only way to go. The “surgery” is done with a rusty, dull butcher knife, and no pain killers, you are awake and you have to perform the operation yourself. BUT Tilly, it is WORTH IT.
Getting that cancer out of your soul will allow PEACE to enter into your heart! God bless you.
endthepain:
No, closing a support agreement doesn’t get you jack.
If you let him off on his support obligation without the custody and visitation agreements in place, you lose any leverage you have. Without the custody and visitation agreements, he can drop into your life whenever he wants and take your child whenever he wants BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE AGREEMENTS IN PLACE DICTATING THE TIMES, PLACE, ETC OF HIS VISITATION!!!
The support agreement gives you some leverage because if he isn’t paying and starts jacking your around about custody or visitation, you can say “Fine. We’ll let the judge decide that. And by the way, since you are in arrears on support, we’ll discuss that with the judge, too.”
When they’re late or behind in child support, they often drift out of the picture, because they don’t want to be hassled about support.
But, without all 3 agreements in place, you are screwing yourself, plain and simple.