Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
Tilly
I used to have to take a mutual friend with me to my youngest boy’s “supervised access visits” with his psychopath father. They were only twice a year and sometimes the P didn’t turn up. When he did turn up he was stoned and would start screaming straight away, terrorising my 4 year old son.
When my boy was eight I got a male friend to dress up in a suit and bring a tape recorder and a notebook and paper and sit there writing, during the whole visit. When the psychopath tried to terrorise the male friend, he didn’t speak, he just nodded and turned the recorder more in the direction of the P and wrote furiously. The psychopath never turned up for an access visit ever again.
Matt
newlife08:
Sure, let me know what your attorney’s idea is.
Joy
Matt I was looking for you on the More or less judgmental blog. Had a legal question but went ahead and made a report to CPS about my Step daughter. She tried to contact me yesterday. She knows that she is not allowed to and I have concerns for her safety. Since the number is private and unlisted, I was surprised to find it in caller ID so I thought that Dad had decided to let us speak to her but that was not the case. I have no idea how the number came up as his. A miraculous act of God? Don’t know but unfortunately he now knows that she called. I worry the results for her on that one. Was not my intention to cause an issue I just really thought he had a change of heart. I promise to never make that mistake again. I had a lengthy conversation with him first time in 6 months but it was fruitful. He admits to no feelings ever for anyone and says that is fine. He doesn’t care what his daughter wants what i want what anyone thinks. She is his and he can keep me away and he will. Threatened to have me arrested for stalking his daughter if I try to communicate with her. I didn’t reach out to her she reached out to me. I just wasn’t here to take the call. But I got the momma gut instinct that said. Mom check on me and I did my best to find her an advocate or a voice of reason to intercept his brainwashing and possible sexual abuse.
Matt
Joy:
You’ve done all you can do for her. Once he reams her out for calling you, at least she’ll know that you tried, and she may reach out to you again.
sabrina
Tilly- What a smart idea what you did on the visitation. Feel proud that you got rid of him, even more so for your childs sake! I dont know if I would of even thought of doing that!!Awesome!
jfog1
Matt,
Thank you for your sound advice. I am working with a loan modification co. who is trying to negotiate with the Mortgage Co.. When I go to mediation next week, I am asking that the deed will be in my name only then the mortgage co. will hopefully put the loan in my name eliminating my (S) from having anything to do with the house. He did take things that came with the house when we purchased it and let the place go. He stole my commercial lawn mower that my business lent me. He also stole other items that were mine. Can I ask for repayment of these items as well as money for the back payments?
I wish I could ask for money for emotional trauma!!!
Thank you so much for being there and for your advice.
jfog1
Matt,
Sorry for the grammatical errors!
Matt
jfog1:
You can ask for repayment of the things he stole. Do you have copies of police reports or emails from him in which he admits to the thefts or anything that can connect the thefts to him?
You can try for emotional trauma. Do you have psychiatrist reports or anything like that? The problem is, in most divorces, the judges at the end of the day tend to look solely at the things they can actually quantify — property, bank accounts, pensions etc and divide those up. They tend to be reluctant to get into things like emotional trauma — too hard to quantify.
jfog1
Matt,
I don’t have police reports of the items that he stole. Rather, I have repeatedly told my attorney since last June that K. had these items and tried to get the attorney to help get them back for me, and now they are gone. I have proof that he had the items that are now missing.
What about the money regarding the mortgage? Can K. be made to compensate me for any of that?
Thank you again.
Matt
jfog1:
Without knowing the nature of the proof you’ve got and your state’s rules on what the kinds of evidence constitute proof, your attorney may be able to present that evidence to the judge hearing your case so that you can seek compensation.
If you’ve been paying his debt, and you can prove that you didn’t intend to make him a gift of those payments, I would think that you can seek compensation for those payments. To prove that you didn’t intend to make him a gift of those payments, do you have correspondence that you are lending him this money or anything like that? Since I am assuming you made those payments after you left, in order to keep a roof over your head, I would argue that you didn’t intend to make a gift of those payments, and thus you should be compensated for them.