Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
Thanks Matt, I made the call and seemed to get a great guy with much insight into both pedophile behavior and sociopathic tendencies. Can only pray for the best. If I’m wrong oh well, If I’m right I did all I could to save her from it.
Hello all…back to reading daily..a funny thing has occured..which just about sums up the double standards and hypocricy of these evil bastards.
He found a text from someone I was once friends with while he was away, he has gone absolutely ape, teelling me how I ahve destroyed us, how hurtfull it was that I had kept saved,
I pointed out, that I hadnt really done that much wrong, he wasnt here at the time through HIS choice..and that if he felt betrayed and hurt how did he think I had felt all the time I had found texts form women WHILE WE WERE TOGETHER..I asked what he wanted me to say…he said what he wanted which was basically for me to accept what I had done was bad and then to explain it, but wouldnt accept any eplanation even it really had nothjing to do with him..I then get pissed at the moral high ground he is taking given his utter disregard through 9 arduous, traumatic, hair raising years.Given that when he was caught actualy decieving me he didnt say sorry or explain..he beat the shit out of me and strangled me..or the many times he just upped and offed and disappeared, making new “deep meamningfull relationships” with indecent haste.
He then had the gall to say yeah but thats the past..I say only in the past few weeks you have been giving me the silent treatment for any old bit ot trivia..even on the day Iw as discharged from the hospital..He then comes the see “I cant say anything to you because if I do I have to listen to this shit!!!”
They like to move the goal posts..they will expect you to be held accountable even when there is nothingt o be held accountable for, but they will not be held accountable..
So finding myself back in the begging to be heard shennanighans..I decide to behave as he would,w ithout the assault of course..I say yeah right well thats how it is, I aint explaining. Its certainly taken the wind out of his sails.
And where as before the situation would have had me going through hoops, upset and edgy. I actually do not give a ****. its very liberating and enpowering to be freee form the old way of him giving me hell and me trying to please and begging for him to stop..
He has now just come the “so it was payback, a taste of my own medicine” I say no but its a bonus..he then comes the attempt to have me feeling guilty by saiying ” Does the victory feel good?” and I had the taste and now we are done…LOL.He still sat here though and he aint doing his usual stam,ping round making a racket nor is he being menacing..God Ive changed so much..yes stupid to have had him back..but its now on my own terms..Have just told him to finish seeing the kids and leave, I think he thought he would be staying here!!
Matt,
Thank you so much!
My (S) must be scared or he wouldn’t be making attempts to make me think he “misses me”,etc..
That is somewhat satisfying in itself. I am afraid of possibly seeing him, however, as I haven’t since almost one year ago.
Hi Matt,
Welcome back – sorry you had such an emotionally difficult weekend. My mom has been diagnosed BPD with Narcissistic traits in her old age and she is as difficult as ever. She had been threatening to commit suicide in the hospital one too many times and they came and took her right out of her bed to the psych ward a few years ago. So after all these years, I guess it explains why I loved a N/S for 22 years and still find it hard to let go of him.
Anyway, Lawyer’s new idea to get the newer house without the debt of any mortgage is to get NS to agree to pay it monthly with term limits on the mortgage. We will also put a lean on another of his properties in case he defaults.
Lawyer says NS should be AFRAID to go in front of a judge for decisions to be made because a judge is obligated in NJ to report tax fraud to the IRS. So this may serve as leverage – although we know NS is not afraid of anything!!!!
This way I would also be able to support the shore house and have it as college/retirement/living fund if needed.
Let me know what you think.
Also, on an emotional level. My son had a difficult time this weekend dealing with the G/F’s phone calls to his father – especially on Mother’s Day. The g/f’s mother’s health status was also the topic of discussion at the food store in front of my son with a neighbor that knows of their affair. My son goes to school with this gal’s kids and he was again made to feel uncomfortable about hearing details of his father’s other life.
As a man, how do you suggest I handle this…to validate that this behavior is not “acceptable” , good men are ffaithful, kind, love their wives and kids ….how do I help him not to repeat the cycle without totally demeaning the image of his dad?
I appealed to the neighbor that my son feels her calls are difficult to deal with and her reaction was predictabe I suppose :
– Get over it
– Nobody controls me
-I didn’t do anything to your son
-You need to move on B—–!
_ He loves me and I love him
– He is a great guy
-I am happy he left “L” ( the last affair) for me and left you finally
– I know about his past – we aired all our dirty laundry with each other
I cannot understand how a woman and mother can behave like this in front of her own kids nevermind mine??? Can she be a nutjob too?? Has to be – skank!!!
How to I teach my son most women are NOT like her???
newlife08:
Just to make sure I understand, the new house is not held by any of his various corporate entities, so title would transfer to you. Then he would be obligated to pay the mortgage until X date (I’m assuming when your youngest turns 18).
In addition, if he doesn’t pay, you have a lien over other properties he owns (I’m assuming that even if these properties are held by some corporate entity, that he, as controlling shareholder has the right to agree to a lien on the properties).
Also, just to make sure I’ve got it straight, the shore house is going to be transferred out of the cororation holding it and the title will be transferred to you?
Let me know that I’ve got the facts straight and I’ll tell you what I think.
And I’m glad that your attorney realizes that the judge has to turn your S into the IRS if he suspects tax fraud. I would pay money to be in the room when the S’s attorney lays that little number on him.
Yes Matt,
Mortgage will be paid by him – but hopefully in total – not just till youngest is 18. I already paid the mortgage in full on house #1 and he took the money and used it for something else other than paying the mortgage on new house. So I consider myself entitled to a house debt free since he wants his businesses 100%.
New house is in her personal name so title has to transfer to me also.
Shore house will have to be titles over to me and out of his corporation.
Obviously, there can be no tax liability held against me as income if he pays the mortgage.
Thanks, Matt.
Your thoughts on my son – as coming from a male, are also important to me. I do not want him to suffer trauma as you did.
newlife08:
I’d say it’s a pretty good deal if you can get him to go along with it. Agree, that there should be no tax liability to you. I know that as a general rule, properties transferred back-and-forth between spouses in a divorce settlement are not subject to taxes. But, I’m not all that clear about stuff being transferred from corporations to a spouse. I’m operating on the assumption that since they are closely-held business entities under his control that the property and interests they contain are all considered marital assets and can be transferred in the same way.
My concern regarding the shore house still is him not filing for bankruptcy within the preference period so that the house isn’t called back as an asset which can be used to satisfy his creditors. It’s also good that you are getting a lien on other properties so it will hold his feet to the fire should he start screwing up on the payment schedule.
Regarding your son, I guess the starting place for me would be to find out exactly what his concerns are/what he feels regarding his father’s performace — and that of his father’s girlfriend — this weekend. The girlfriend is the easiest piece of this puzzle (God, I hope you get that new house so you can move your kids away from that bitch with a capital C which is your neighbor/his girlfriend). Since your son has probably has put together a lot of pieces regarding her role in this mess, I think you can pretty much address his views head on.
As for his father, you’re right — you’ve got to tread a fine line between validating your son’s concerns and not trashing his father. I think you’re on the right track regarding what the majority of decent males in this world think. And that you’re confident in the way that he is growing up that you know he’ll make the right choices.
Having grown up with two constantly warring parents, I think it’s really important that your son knows that he can at least express his concerns to you (and arguably his fathe) so he doesn’t feel completely powerless. While I think if your son raised his concerns regarding the girlfriend to his father, they’d fall on deaf ears, he needs to know that his feelings are valid and he can discuss them with you.
Thanks, Matt
I owe you two drinks now………………..
God Bless
Thankyou for acknowledging me Sabrina. I had gone through a lot of physical violence and constant moving by then. Additionally the case to get custody and supervised access took up most of my life and cost me about fifty grand. But it was worth every cent. My youngest boy is my best friend and my greatest ali. I am sure if he had had the p in his life any longer, he would have been very very damaged. He is a beautiful happy healthy 19 year old with a needy girlfriend ( I know!), but he has a lot of insight and has seen everything that i went through and LEARNED.
And I loved your story OxDrover! Your mum and my mum would get on like a house on fire…they could rubbish us all the way to the tip.