Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
I’d like to recommend the book “In Sheep’s Clothing”. It is not specifically about sociopaths, but one of the BEST I’ve seen in terms of understanding what they do, and what kind of traits to watch out for in yourself that put you at greater risk, and what kind of tactics help you deal with them. The book is about covert manipulators and not just psychopaths/sociopaths, and therefore doesn’t stress NO CONTACT, but if you have to deal with one, I think this book helps and I wish every parent would read it too!
Matt “I always honor my debts”, lol – reminds me of my mother who would swear black and blue that she is, and always has been, truthful. Its such a joke, she lies about everything.
Pesel, I understand your agony about controlling her money from your fathers will. My mother is a total nutcase – always has been – and the lies and fraud and then the projections have to be seen to be believed.
She is a rich woman in her own right (after having gouged $$$$$ from her family and my father over the years) and has manipulated her way into a stranglehold over my fathers estate. The estate’s lawyer hasn’t followed the directions of the will which allows her to draw some $$$ from the estate should we (on seeing her financial figures) collectively deem it necessary.
Well she has NEVER provided financial figures but has always managed to skim the cream from the estate’s income all the same.
She asked me to lunch one day, because she thought I sounded burdened by life – or something and she asked about my financial affairs. Well I said that things were pretty grim and that like everyone else we had a mortgage we couldn’t pay and that we were struggling to get by” She looked me straight in the eyes and smiled ‘Oh Ive never had a mortgage!. She then asked if my husband beat me.
Anyway the SHTF when we eventually got independant lawyers to look at the situation. We sent her their advice and she has gone nuts. She wrote to a friend saying that her “evil traitorous children were trying to rob her and that we were challenging the will after 14 years” The irony is that the lawyer divulged that she was looking for ways to get more $$$ from the estate, as a counter to the advice we got.
She is a total nightmare.
Moved to another post.
Jmb is right, No more Ms nice girl. Learn to identify things which you can use to your advantage. These people want to win and will take advantage of anything they can. Do the same yourself. Because I am a good mother I got caught in a trap where I could not afford a legal fight and to finance my daughters through University. I chose to keep funding them but I even learned to use thing which on which I’d been forced compromise to my advantage. I got blackmailed into renting a property to my father in Law for well under market rent. When the health insurance was not paid as promised I immediately stopped paying rates on that property and waited until the bailiffs turned up at the door. Shit hit the fan then and I got some co-operation. Of course it happened again and the deal presented was to restart paying the health insurance , as this would have meant losing continuity and benefits I did not want this. The whole time the lie was being presented (in front of health fund staff that this was the only way to re-insure. I strung this out for hours umming and ahhing and listening to the lies and then started to sign and stopped, asked for the top manager and directly asked if I could pay the arrears and not lose the benefits. The answer of course was yes. You should have seen his face and the face of the employee he’d roped into the scam. So I paid it on my credit card and I got the money back too later as I immediately stopped paying those rates again.
This is the only thing these people understand. They do not care about you the way you care about family. They only care about getting what they want.
Denise – you are absolutely right. it’s me, me, me (HIM)
Spaths do not give a fig about ANYONE else. Just what they want and can get for free.
They do not have a caring bone in their body.
I’m at my wits end!!! Not only have I been fighting this same issue for myself since the moment I met this women but now she’s doing the same garbage to my children and I can’t get her to stop!! For some odd, strange reason she has no problem bringing up other people’s flaws up to their attention and making people feel bad. And repeatedly…I’ve brought these things up…and over and over…she down plays whomever brought it up…and somehow turns it into being my fault. For instance…my son came home from visiting grandma. He was upset over the fact that she was telling him he was overweight and kept belittling him with snotty comments about it throughout his visit. He proceeded to tell me that he was forced to do push-ups and every time he’d mess up…she would make him start all over again…my daughter was also there…she saw the whole thing. She told me that Tristan was sobbing the whole entire time. My guess is that he felt absolutely humiliated not to mention…how would you feel if your grandma is standing over you and staring with a mean look in her eyes? (my guess is that look of disgustment she gets on her face when she sees something that she doesn’t agree with) No…I did not bring this up to her attention. Why? She just going to make it seem like it wasn’t that big of deal and I’m going to look like the jerk again. My decision is this…I will not send my son there unless the courts appoint me too. So…if she does pursue visitation…what do you suggest I do? Me and my children are not the only victims here. Would it be in my best interest to collect as many names and numbers of people that she’s treated this way? Because I’m exhausted…I don’t know what else do!!!
Tandog1, I am assuming that you are male, that you have custody of your two children, and that the Witch is your X’s mother. (am I wrong on this assessment?)
I will give you the same informaiton we give most people dealing with a co-parent or relative, DOCUMENT< DOCUMENT DOCUMENT. Get your children (what ages?) to record on video the details of the event. Document as to time, date, and place that this event happened.
Then, I would not tell her "I am not letting you near my kids again witch!" But would simply have it "inconvenient" for them to go over there and stay today…and if you HAVE TO to keep her from taking you to court, take the kids over there and STAY WITH THEM, in other words don't leave them alone with the WITCH. That way she can't say you won't let her see them.
Also, EVERY time you talk to her keep a recorder in your pocket, and if it is not illegal in your state, record phone conversations as well. Or put it on speaker and have a WITNESS who listens.
The way she is treating your kids is child abuse, so I think you might also consider (I'd talk to an attorney about it first) call child protective services and report her….but I think you are right, this woman is not someone I'd want around my kids.
BTW welcome to Love fraud.
Hey everyone figured I’d check this out you guys have some really good advice.
Some bckground info about me 🙂
18 just moved out free for the first time ever.
My father a sociopath to be nice about it, had me under his thumb for years. I only lived with him from the time I was 12-18. Big chunk of time to be honest.
I had moved in with my father Mike after years of only seeing the “summer dad”.
Mike had for a very young time even when I was a child was a liar. I hadn’t realized the depth of it until i was out of the sitution.
I had come to accept the abusive and the molestation as normal and an ever day thing.
It wasn’t until one day that I finally had it and snapped.
He had forced me to give him 6,000 of my education fund i had recived from have my face mauled as a child.
He sadi if I dont pay I dont stay. His own daughter and the funny thing is that he told me it was the family deal. what a load of junk.
Once I got a domestic violence protection order “that was denied becaue his lawer told the judge I couldn’t talk about the abuse and since I didn’t have a lawer well you can guess what happened.
My brother on the other had was able to get a restraining order against him.
But the judge granted my fathers becasue of his lies. Our court cases is acuatlly being reviewed by a different judge I dont see much hope on that though.
After the papers were finallized I come to find out that he had managed to get a key to the new lock I put on my door and was tracking me through a gps in our truck that we found days before we moved thank good.
It really scared me because not only was he my father but now he had all my new bank info social security number everything.
I had to start over again and explain a lot of this many times again!
He would also scar the dogs so bad that there would be dog poop everywhere from when he had tried to do whatever. I can’t even imagin I feel bad because he knew that to get to me he had to hurt the things I loved.
After we removed the tracking device which is 100% illegal!
He would send all his girlfriends over to check up on me.
And by that I mean to see if I was in the house and if I wasn’t so he could go through all my stuff again…kinda seeing a pattern here.
Needless to say I was not very friendly to his whores….
They believe everything he says like he was some saint.
lThe funniest thing though is right before we moved he was watching the truck and came right up to it and placd his truck plates in our car.
Finally nailed him though after he sent me a very nasty email the one of many.
If you and your degenerate brother had spent as much time on trying to fix the situation as you spent fucking me over, you would not be homeless now.
How you can blame me whatsoever boggles any ratio al mind.
You are sick and you will not get better around him. Once he spends all your money, do you think he will give a shot about you? Wrong again.
But it is already too late you threw your life away blaming me for your issues.
How again did I put fear in you for 18 years? Why would you blame me when I was the only one truly looking out for you.
Despicable that is what you are. I pray you are home with your mother you can do the same thing to her that you did to me.
And I pray that your karma finds you fast and you reap the harvest you have sown.
And tell your brother, he us a shameful coward. He cannot be a man he is not even human. You are both souless wothless scum. Do the world a favor and jump off.
I wash my hands of you and truly wish for your misery and suffering to teach you that you NEVER do what you have done without consequences.
So sorry the whole growing dope thing didn’t work out for you. Trying to kill your own father, lying to everyone for your own stupidity, trashing every single memory and memento. You will go to hell, not me. You are already there by following your insane brother.
Now your money will be gone, you will be truly homeless, no education no future. Just misery.
That is what you created.
By the way, your art sucks anyway, I was just trying to be good dad by encouraging you, but truth is, you suck.
As a human you suck.
Please call the police, they want to hear from you. Tell them how I supposedly abused you. Tell them what a terrible daddy you have. But don’t lie and tell people you are a victim.
I am the victim of your domestic violence.
So fuck yourself Erica.
Please let me know where you are, Khoi would love to prosecute you.
Damn you both to hell.
As you can see clearly crazy by this point he didnt like me sueing him over the rent money and winning.
Thats what I have to deal with I cant go back and visit my friend becasue everyone he knows is looking for me.
The funn thing is becasue he told me to tell my brother that he pretty much sucks that was third party intreaction and now hes the one with the warrent and the police looking for him.
Pretty much all I’m saying is get them in court and just keep taking them back they willget caught up in thier lies if you keep pressing me on the other hand my story hasn’t changed becasue its the truth.
To be honest though I saw this coming from the drugs and the cheating he did and the lieing and stealing.
It’s different though seeing behavior like this done to others but then done to you.
I thought I was worth more then the money in my pockit.
I wish I had never expirenced this but at the same time I had too. I would still be bck there if it had happened any other way.
I’m in shock the anger hasn’t come yet but Iknow it will.
Thats what scares me the most falling into that pit just like him.
He never made me happy but he taught me a very important lesson. Even if you know someone and trust them always hold a grain of self so in the end you havent given everything. Because you shouldnt have to give everything and get nothing in return thats not love.
So heres my first post just needed to get it out I feel like people dont believe me when I tell them what hes done.
He always called me a liar and now I fell like it when I tell the truth. I dont want to believe this but I have to. Everyone does no one can hide from awful truths like these.
Dear heartofmoo, welcome and glad you shared here!! This is the best cyber place for people who GET IT! All of us here have been thru hell and back, and some are still in it. So very sorry you went through everything that you have been through. You have survived things that other people may have perished in!!! Please, give yourself credit! I’m glad you’re here, this is a good place to read, vent, rant, rave, learn, grow, to gain wisdom and insight. You can believe, that everyone here, knows where you are at, can relate to what you have gone through, and have come out to the other side victorious! Best wishes to you! Blessings to you in your healing journey! 🙂
Heartofmoo, I am so sorry to read of your experiences and you found a good “virtual” place for knowledge and recovery.
There are many, MANY resources out there to help you in your recovery, beginning with http://www.ndvh.org and http://www.rainn.org. These organizations can put you into contact with a network of help, housing, legal advocacy, counseling, and support.
Fear is a driving force that nearly every spath uses to their advantage. To combat that fear means taking steps to take control of your situation by reaching out. I strongly urge you to reach out to those organizations. You are still young enough that you can recover from your experiences and build an incredibly successful life for yourself in VERY good order.
You are valued in this Universe. That being typed, learning to value yourSELF is going to take time and LOTS of assistance from trained professionals. Once you are in strong recovery, you will be able to construct boundaries that nobody will be able to violate, no matter WHOM they are! And, you’ll realize your own potential.
Brightest and most encouraging blessings