Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
Y’know Matt,
I’m in favor of that sort of thing 99% of the time. If I was in regular contact with these folks, I’d make it my business to charm ’em. We’d get past that initial assumption on their part that I was born last night, and I’d work past that initial urge to sneeze “bussshhhhiiittt” each time they pontificated. We’d talk about the weather, their children, their hobbies, their sports teams, how clever they are, how charming, how cute, and whatever else they wanted to hear.
Shmoozing is an important life skill we should all cultivate.
Leah:
One clarification — if you have documented proof of the attorney’s actions against your interests, you can file with the Disciplinary Committee of your State Bar Association. What makes your case stronger, is if there is evidence of a criminal conviction against him. If the DA or State AG says “no go”, then take it to the DC.
Matt- Some other thoughts I feel are REALLY important , and I don’t mind if anyone wants to use it again, I just hope it helps others.
My x N/P was required by the d. decree to meet at a public place each time he exercised his right to visitation (like a restaurant or gas station) Gas stations are good, there are usually cameras set up in parking lot. When my crazy x hit his x wife w/ children in the car, a tape was pulled from the station and brought to court.
You can never be too cautious in these situations. An officer once told me violence is most likely to happen directly in weeks, and a couple of months following the separation.
True to form, my x N/P put sugar in the gas tank of my car, 2 weeks after he signed our final divorce decree. Which could quite possibly have caused a fatal accident(as the car was systematically locking up as I drove it with my child in back seat.)
ALWAYS,ALWAYS let the police know if stalking is going on, hang up calls, etc. Don’t hesitate to get the PDA (protection order) and TAPE ALL CALLS FROM HIM for documentation/proof.
Radioshack has equipment, test it first, make sure it can be heard. I had to get someone to digitally enhance the conversation via computer to make it more audible.
BEST THING I FOUND IN RECORDING is to put them on speaker phone, then use your recorder to get it all-worked perfectly! ,
In my state, it is admisable in court. I figured even if it wasn’t, WHO CARES, IF he killed me someone would have some flipping PROOF! Also can be used as leverage.When the other atty. heard about my evidence, he changed his plea to GUILTY .
At one time, my situation was so severe officers asked ME for permission to walk thru my yard at any time of night for my protection, told me what kind of tazer gun the force personally used so that I could purchase the exact model.
I asked for extra patrols around my house , and did not hesitate to issue warrants when necessary (advised by police And atty.) KEY is to not to appear crazy and emotional with officers, state facts calmly and seriously.SHOW PROOF whenever you can for creditabilty and/or witnesses. Keep a picture of the S, vehicle tag #, etc. with you to show officers involved with your protection.
Put extra enforcements/hotel locks etc. on doors at home. Even had my bedroom door modified for additional safety with deadbolts.
Reason being- Once he was coming after me to attack me, I locked bedroom door, he broke door AND facing like it was PAPER. He was strangling me so fast, as if I had never had a closed, locked door between us!
I realized how unprotected and vulnerable I was. I will not be a sitting duck again. Plus the measure of protection makes me feel immensely more secure, like I am taking my power back. Mistake is to think HE WON’T DO THIS. Pray for the Best, But Prepare for the Worst! Peace….
sabrina:
A lot of good points — another article to add to the “dealing with a sociopath in divorce/custody”.
I was just thinking of nic, who I haven’t seen post recently. We were advising her to arrange for her S to pick up her daughter in a public place such as a police station. I didn’t think of the obvious reason for a police station — they all have security cameras. Gas stations are an excellent choice also. Now that I think about it, anybody in this situation should “case” a couple of places first to make sure they have security cameras.
Matt,
Good idea- check the place out, ask questions to make sure cameras are in place and where.
Most station owners would be helpful if the mother explains this is the drop off point, and if there is ever any trouble, they would know to notify police.
Of course, I am in Alabama, everyone here says “Bless your heart,”Come on in, honeeey, and have some sweet tea,” Other places may not be as accommodating. lol
Police station good, just childrens instincts are sharp, may make them feel like something is wrong having to meet there, but its stilll better than being at risk.
This has become such an informative sight and I feel so lucky to have found it as my life of hell for the last 5 yrs made me feel I was all alone..to read all of this and know that I am not has given me such a great amount of inner stregnth. Without going into all of the horrific details which are all of what I have read already..my situation is that my 3 yr old son …does not really know his sociopathic father..he left us when he was born and took me to court to get out of support for 2 yrs..didnt work..since then he came back …I believed him…he got to know my son for 4 months and it was hell….he left again this past feb….I told him to leave us alone…he is now back around again…tried to weasel back again this time It didnt work..called him on his lies..I was so upset told him we were done..over..never again..he then started talking about time with his son..trying to act like he loves him….he owes about 3800 in child support is not working and there is no court order for custody or ecen visitation..he has never tried…I have been nice before and let him see my son however the chaos os crazy..I have now not spoken or heard from him in a week..Im glad….my question if there is no order in place for vistation or custody can I ignore him..please help me as I am scared
I forgot to add…we were never married..I would really like any feedback to help as I am so worried about my son…I have come so far and I dont want to slide back again..I see him and things so clearly now..its as if the puzle has finally been put together…I just want to be careful and stromng in my approach…my son..i love him more than anything and want to protect him from the hell we have endured
“my question if there is no order in place for visitation or custody can I ignore him…”
Yep, you can. At least, for a while. If he gets a lawyer and attempts to establish orders on custody and visitation, that will change.
I think you should ignore him for at least long enough for the chaos to subside. Don’t do, say or write anything that could be used to make you look vindictive or irrational to any authority figures. What you say and do will very likely be examined under a microscope when custody and visitation orders are being considered. Establish yourself as the sane parent.
Hang in there sweetie. It gets better.
This sight has helped me realize I to have been dealing with a
sociopath. My sons girlfriend gave birth to a son and the child came to live with me at 3 weeks of age. The dad in prison and mom in and out of failed programs for drugs. Took jail time and I tried to have her live with us to help her. I now see you cannot help a sociopath. They manipulate everything. After several months of ignoring her child and partying , we had had enough and told her to leave. Unfortunatly she was allowed by police to take my grandson now 21 months old with her. DCF is investgating and we have retained a lawyer but at what price. If we fight she will fight and the child will lose. Why do they, sociopaths, use everyone including their children to hurt people? She has dupped DCF and family time and again. Swearing this will be the last time ever. That she will change. It seems never ending and now I must do something to try and mend this for the sake of my grandson.
Jen2008 sums it up well in the initial response to this posting. I too must deal with my ex S because we share a child. I have raged at the numbers he’s pulled in regards to our son and have spent much energy in playing his game to win.
The truth is, one never knows from one Sociopath to another what will work…but I believe one thing always does. Don’t let them control your emotions, reactions or actions! Be who you are, make decisions based on what YOU can live with and recognize what you simply can’t control…for all else, have faith…not in the Sociopath but in yourself and that there is a greater good you serve every time you do what you know is right in your heart.
There is no way to stop your son from moving in with his father once he is at an age to make such decisions. All the planning and plotting won’t change this and, if anything, will back fire. Because it’s energy ultimately expended away from raising your son NOW…the way you want to NOW…while you can! Your child will be his own person, make his own mistakes and hopefully his own successes. Focus on him, not his father!
Namaste
Kari