Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
Here is what I think “works” with a sociopath.
1. Be patient. Realize it may take months or even years to achieve your goal. Do not try to solve the problem immediately.
2. Be crafty. Try not to let the sociopath realize (or remember) that you are “on to” him/her. Let them think you are under their influence or still a victim. This is what they want to believe. They are most vulnerable when they think they have “won” or have you in a “one down” position.
Also, you can never operate “under the radar” if a sociopath has you in his sights.
3. Be careful. As you are working for justice, you will need to take steps to undermine the sociopath. It is impossible to emphasize too much how careful you must be in doing this. You must take extreme care that he/she does not realize you are working against him.
4. Be wise. Do not sacrifice short-term gain for long-term loss. Be willing to give up small battles to win the big one. A true sociopath will have predictable behavior. If you learn it, you can learn how to exploit it.
5. Be brave. You must have confidence in yourself and your own assessment of the situation. Do not let anyone talk you into believing what you know is a lie. Remember that your cause is just, not evil. Right is on your side.
Deposing a Socipath…Any advice?
I have decided to have my Sociopath STBX deposed in our divorce case.
Typical case….no order followed, no compliance, no documents turned over etc…. Claims he hasn’t been able to work in 2 years.
I have loads of documentation, and can back up anything I need to.
He always wondered how I knew about his lies etc…. He has no idea what I have documented. I can dispell all the lies with recordings, tapes, video, receipts, invoices etc……none of which he knows I have.
Do you have any advice on questioning ‘tecniques’ that can be used during the deposition, how to phrase Specifically geared to a sociopath.
How should a sociopath be deposed? Knowing they just can’t be honest about anything?
Do you want to get under their skin, or make nice?
Should it be videotaped, audio or just court reporter?
Also, how should I appear, calm and indifferent? Keep eye contact on him, or no eye contact, look bored, intimidated, in control?
I have applied the NC idea for over a year and a half. He is sure not keen on this.
I asked my attorney (who get’s it) to make the depo go on as long as they can….drag it out. STBX is a sprinter and by lunchtime, I expect him to ‘break’. He can’t deal with the law the same way he dealt with me…..smokescreen, blow up and run away. If he does choose to ‘run away’, it will show the court another example of his behaviors.
When he get’s an idea of the corner he has placed himself into with his constant lies, I am hoping he will crack and make a settlement offer so he doesn’t risk being exposed. I have made it well known I will not be keeping any secrets…..and he has loads.
Thanks for all the support this forum offers…..WOW, I’m not alone!
I have read these posts and have taken the info in and am still trying to make sense of it as I am still in awe of how crazy this life has been but more so how many of your words are like my life…the pattern with my S has been yes..smokescreen…blow up and runaway…he has done this between me and another woman for 5 yrs now..just recently…I didnt fall for his crap…and when I called him on it…I told him I was done..he ran..as usual..right back to the other within hrs..since we have a child and money is involved here..I let him know yesterday (in a voice message of course as he doesnt answer when unsure)that I have no imtention of lowering his child support and I am more than happy if he wants to pursue this route to go back to court..I also let him know I wasnt going to be in a situation where he pits the other woman and I against eachother anymore..(he has her duped into doing things for him against me and then blames her)I was very strong inforthcoming..now Im questioning as I read above to “never let them know you are onto them”…I don think I have done that so much as take a strong stand and protect myself and my son who is only 3….did I make a mistake in doing so?? what should I expect now?
ErinBrokovich:
I’ve read a transcript of a sociopath being deposed. He lied throughout. The fact that he was committing perjury was irrelevant to him. Or, he conceded the truth of some points – like affairs – but felt justified in his actions.
I’d say the purpose of your deposition is to get ammunition. You know he’s going to lie, so ask him questions for which you have documentation of the truth. Then you can prove his lies.
Maybe you can scare him into a settlement. If so, make sure whatever you demand is something that can be delivered lump sum, immediately. If you ask for something long term – like alimony – you’ll forever be chasing him for money.
jmb –
I copied your advice and pasted it into a doc that I keep on my desktop and no the S does not have access to my computer!). Amazing advice. THIS is what I have been waiting to hear about on this site for sooo long!
I am in the process of a complaint against the S in my life who was my acupuncturist turned counsellor – turned friend -turned lover – turned exploiter – turned terrorizer etc.
I am using your advice to go through this process as I need to write letters, talk to boards, etc. without him trying to come after me again but still conveying my meaning to those involved. I want THEM to punish him (ie put him on probation, force him into counselling, take away his liscence, MSI billing privelages, etc.).
Thanks again – for everyone out there and all their amazing support and advice!!!!
sabine:
I am glad you are taking on your ex. The betrayal of a medical professional/healer is so incomprehensible. Until recently I had blocked out sexual abuse by a psychiatrist I was seeing in my late teens. The damage these cretins do is incalcuable and they deserve to be publicly lynched.
Matt had said, in another post to act like a sociopath towards them. I so agree. Learn it, do it and see the reactions you get…..it boggles them. This is what I plan for the deposition tomorrow. Secretly, I am getting pleasure from all the info I have ‘dug’ up on him, documented and can throw in his face to expose him. He’s an ‘off the cuff’ kind of lier, so he will not be able to cover his tracts, he will try with more lies, then more……then he will back himself into a corner with all the lies. I will have my attorney lead him into the battle field, them drop the bombs……Oh, I just can’t wait to watch him squirm!!! And the fact that I will be present and not the one speaking is glorious. He will not know what to do.
He was canned by his first attorney….because when the questions get hard, he can’t back his claims up. There is no way he can comply with the court process to expidite the divorce….He’s on his 3rd representative and I am thinking that after the depo, his new attorney will ask him ‘what was this/that about’…..his claims of she did it, her, her, them, you….will need an explanation that he just can’t give. How can he expect to be represented without offering up the ‘whole’ story, good bad and ugly.
My S likes to play the victim, it nauseates me to hear people respond to him with….”oh, I hope your hanging in there”. Me….I hope he just hangs! I will give him the rope at the deposition.
After 3 decades with this ars….I know now and am fully aware of how he operates…..I have learned from him and I will use it to benefit me now!!!
Thank god our children are older and see him for exactly what he is and has exposed them to. Unfortunately, they were the ones who brought this to light to me!
He has conceeded to give up any custody fight and no visitation. The kids were thrilled!
One issue (among many) that was very helpful on that front was him feeding the children ‘pot’ salads with ranch dressing and telling them that it wasn’t the drug unless the leaves were dried. People did not take too highly to that, when that leaked out. YA THINK? Thank god the kids get him and that parts off the table!
Wish me luck tomorrow…….
ErinBrokovich:
It is good that you have the documentation to back up your claims. However, don’t be surprised if S still denies what’s in the documentation.
I still vividly remember the last night with S. He had been locked out of his apartment after not paying the rent for 7 months. He has numerous default judgments against him — all public record. When I brought up the money he owed me, that pompous, pedantic, pious little prick drew himself up and replied self-righteously “I always honor my debts.” I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
I was also wondering if one of his tactics to delay things to is lie to/keep firing his attornes? In his warped little mind, he could be thinking if he can just drag this out long enough you will get fed up and walk away. Don’t. Let the judge hit hold him in contempt. It will happen. Because judges ultimately get fed up with cases which linger on their dockets.
Dear ERin,
AFter the death of my late husband I was sued by a P that lived across the road for HIS MENTAL SUFFERING (for which he needed money of course to make him feel better) because my husband had TRESPASSED on his land to crash a plane and burn to death (there was no damage to the land or anything on it)
When we deposed him, we had things that we set him up because we KNEW HE WOULD LIE and we could BLINDSIDE HIM….I fed the lawyer OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS the man had made about being an FBI operative, a CIA operative, a Navy Seal, etc etc. along with the names of the witnesses who had been told by this man all these OUTRAGEOUS AND EASILY PROVEN UNTRUTHS….during the deposition in which he was telling what a TRAUMA my husband had inflicted on him by dying there, my attorney blindsided him with these questions like “Did you tell Mr. X on or about December 2007 that you were an FBI operative?” Did you tell Mr. Y on or about x date that you worked for the CIA , etc etc.
His eyes got big as saucers and he started to sputter! I loved it because he had NOT EXPECTED THIS TYPE OF QUESTION and was having difficulty making up a believeable lie at the time so quickly. So I suggest if you can come up with some questions that he IS NOT EXPECTING that are EASILY proveable this might put him off his game. Once my P in this deposition was discombubulated and his attorney saw that this wasn’t going to be a slam dunk, the case settled out of court with the P getting NOTHING.
Good luck with your case!
I WILL NOT give up. I have nothing to gain by quitting, it wouldn’t matter….I could give him everything, absolutely everything, my brain and eyeball on a silver platter and he wouldn’t be happy……He wants to be a victim, it makes a good story for him to tell, draws him support and supply, so I will aid his ideal. I am 140K in cc debt, foreclosure pending, so why stop now?!
He of all people knows…..as he called the hospital after my surgery and cancer diagnosis to ask if the surgeon had also removed my ‘tenacity’ in the surgery.
He knows when I am wronged I will stand up and fight like a bulldog….I am smart, TENACIOUS and don’t give up. (Hence the EB name) I believe this was one of the reasons he stuck around, I was a great front for him, he would get me to fight for him and I did, because I believed in him. Now it’s on him. He hasn’t been on this side of me before…..he had just watched it from the bleachers.
As OXDrover suggests, I will have my attorney bring up off the wall stuff he has done and spent money on around the world, that he , in no way thinks I could ever know…..funny how people turn on you when you show your true colors. If it pertains to money, income or spending…..I have it documented….I don’t care if he was in Italy, Wyoming, N. Carolina or the Bahamas. He thought he was safe spending freely and hiding money.
I think the deposition will be better than my day in court….it’s all coming to a head and I’m going to pop him like a zit. (ugh, sorry)…I know him, know how he operates now, I have educated myself, stepped out of the fire and have been willing to see the behaviors. I have written out the past 3 decades of my life with him and what it was in ME that I chose to stay, enable…address my issues on why I was attracted to this, so I will not repeat it with another relationship. I know this man..NOW! But it’s just in time to fight the battle. I took off the blinders and as I call it….I have the decoder glasses now. I can see right through him and Im going to use it all against him and watch him wiggle. I have done my recon work and now it’s time to go to war. I have my salt shaker and he’s the snail…..I plan on having him foam by mid deposition.
He will freak out…he always did when I let him know I knew something. I plan on pulling his style of sociopathic, undermining his sense of security and confidence on his position by planting these seeds of information. He will not be able to sleep and his stomach problems will reappear.
The thing about dealing with a sociopath after joining the ‘cancer club’ is….when you take the fear out of dying, nothing scares you. He can do whatever he wants…..I am not afraid of him or his cronies.
Kill me, I don’t care, steal whatever it is I have, items are not important. He has tainted my family, parents and some friends, I have what’s important, ME and my kids! And you can’t steal my soul….
I have lived a good, honest life. I have been a great mother, daughter, a wonderful wife, traveled, given back to the world, helped people, been successful…….so YOU don’t scare me~ I have nothing to hide!
I am woman…hear me roar!