Lovefraud recently received the letter below from a reader; we’ll call her Andrea.
I was married to a sociopath for 12 years (didn’t know it until we divorced). He had 3 affairs and was a minister for a majority of that time. He messed up a lot of lives. Anyway, I am at my wits end right now because I cannot get him out of my life because we had 2 children. I am so tired of dealing with him. My kids are 12 and 10 now and my ex is doing everything in his power to try and convince my son to go live with him when he’s 14. I see it happening and there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I keep notes about everything that happens, but my lawyer tells me that it would be a very hard case if my son wants to go.
I’m also struggling right now because I have something my ex wants. I have some documents from when we were married and owned a business. He needs some proof that another couple we were in business with is not responsible for a loan we had. My ex got the loan in the divorce. I believe he’s trying to bankrupt his business. Anyway, I’m refusing to give him the documents because I am so tired of being bullied by him and lied to. I know this was a stupid thing to do because now he’s furious and is attacking me through emails and bashing me to the kids. But, it seems so unfair that I have to give in to him ALL THE TIME to keep the peace. I am tired of it. He has something I want and I’m holding the documents as a bargaining tool. Do you think this will work with a sociopath? Or am I just asking for it?
A relationship or any type of involvement with a sociopath leaves us with a big ball of turmoil. We discover that everything he or she has ever said to us was a lie, and we are outraged. We learn that we were played like a fool, and we are humiliated. We realize that our love and trust were abused, and we fear that we’ll never love and trust again.
While trying to deal with the emotional shock of the betrayal, we also have to deal with the practical issues of disengaging—divorce, finances, children. As we do this, especially if there are legal proceedings involved, we want to tell the world, or at least the judge, about the sociopath’s wrongdoing. We want to prove that we were honorable, and the sociopath was not. We want to be vindicated.
The sociopath does not experience this emotional turmoil. The sociopath’s only objective is to win. The definition of “winning,” of course, depends on what the sociopath wants. Maybe it’s keeping his or her possessions, such as children. Maybe it’s keeping his or her money by not having to pay child support. Maybe it’s destroying us.
Think strategically
Usually Lovefraud advises our readers to have no contact with sociopaths. Of course, this is not possible when someone, like Andrea, has to co-parent with a sociopath.
My advice to Andrea was to think strategically. There is no point withholding the documents just because she is tired of being bullied. What does she really want? What leverage does she have to get what she wants?
The documents she talks about are leverage. Therefore, Andrea should play this exactly as the sociopath would—using the documents to extract some kind of concession out of him. She needs to evaluate what that might be, and then use her leverage to get it.
However, whatever she demands needs to be something that the sociopath can deliver immediately, not at some time in the future. Sociopaths do not honor agreements, so there is no point in asking for something that will be delivered later, or over a long period of time. It will never happen.
What works?
For sociopaths, it’s all a game, a game that they want to win.
In my case, however, my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, just quit playing. In our divorce, he fired his attorney, signed papers to represent himself pro se, and then defaulted. He was on to his next scam, and had no use for me. I never interacted with him again.
So I actually don’t have experience in ongoing dealings with a sociopath. Therefore, I ask Lovefraud readers for your input. If you must continue to deal with a sociopath, what works?
I have lived with and had children with both, a Malignant Narcissist, and a Sociopath. The bottom line for both, is that they use truth to promote their lies, and they lie as though it is truth.
In a depositon, it is good to get him/her to brag about something that is true, but will trap them into a lie that they have told. My EX insisted that he was the primary physical custodian, paid for 100% of “known costs” for the kids yet he stayed at work 16 hours a day and gave me ZERO money for 8 children who were 15 and under. This caused extreme financial hardship for me while he made over 100K a year and enjoyed the free Nanny (me), the tax returns and packing away for retirement while I have lost my job and my retirement and my home.
Example:
“Did your exwife’s home get repossessed in …?”
“Yes.”
“Does she still live in it?”
“Yes.”
“Did you buy it from the bank?”
“Yes”
“Wow! that was nice of you! You did that for your exwife?”
“No. Not for her, I wanted my kids to have a place to live.” as he sticks out his chest in pure pride.
“Letting” me stay in the home is just his way of reminding me that he still controls me. For now, I stay, for the kids but the minute the last one is 16-18 I will SO BE GONE from there.
(His intention: Bad light on irresponsible “exwife” (me) for losing home-BIG shiny light on HIM for being responsible to his children and ‘providing them with a home’.)
However, this proved that the children were living with ME and not with him. This proves that I was the primary custodian and that he was in contempt for not upholding the decree.
Sadly, my attorney was too stupid to ask the right questions, or use them once we had him. I had to spend 40 hours writing them myself; and then fired him after I got it done. I am currently seeking another attorney-good luck, huh? 🙁
Dear Erin,
YOU GO GIRL! TOWANDA!!!!!
Dear Fleeced ewe,
I’m sorry you “got the shaft and he got the mine”—my divorce years and years ago was like that but my FIL was the P and my x husband the victim as well as me….but in the end, I did survive and I know you will too. They are good at twisting things. (((((hugs)))))
I have read these posts and have taken the info in and am still trying to make sense of it as I am still in awe of how crazy this life has been but more so how many of your words are like my life”the pattern with my S has been yes..smokescreen”blow up and runaway”he has done this between me and another woman for 5 yrs now..just recently”I didnt fall for his crap”and when I called him on it”I told him I was done..he ran..as usual..right back to the other within hrs..since we have a child and money is involved here..I let him know yesterday (in a voice message of course as he doesnt answer when unsure)that I have no imtention of lowering his child support and I am more than happy if he wants to pursue this route to go back to court..I also let him know I wasnt going to be in a situation where he pits the other woman and I against eachother anymore..(he has her duped into doing things for him against me and then blames her)I was very strong inforthcoming..now Im questioning as I read above to “never let them know you are onto them—I don think I have done that so much as take a strong stand and protect myself and my son who is only 3”.did I make a mistake in doing so?? what should I expect now?
Dear Endthepain,
You did not make a mistake by standing up for yourself. You said you were done. You addressed child support and you told him dont want anything to do with him and the other woman,
The only “mistake”… learning lesson… would be if you went back on your words…if you continued to make contact or let him get through to you. If you are done…go back to court…get custody agreement/or child support in order…without contacting him…”notifying” him.
Never let them know you are onto them… is dont throw anything in their face…dont taunt them with what you know or with what you want him not to do or to do…
Its not so much what should you expect now…but what do you want now? Doesnt matter if he is at your door or disappears from your life for weeks…WHAT DO YOU WANT? If you are done, then no voice mails, no communication, no knowing who is with and when….etc.
Im SO GLAD you were strong and forthcoming. Stay that way! The only way he can continue to do anything to you and another woman for another 5 years is if you keep being his supply of any kind. Once you put your foot down, he backs away, waits for you to miss him, and pounces right back again…its a cycle… only you can break it. You deserve better than sharing any man!! Stay strong…focus on your beautiful son…and not letting that man back into your life!
My prayers are with you! Keep reading all the old articles and posts…there is so much to find at LF that is similar to what you are going through. Dont be afraid… be strong and take care of yourself and your son!!
endthepain:
A bit of legal advice. Don’t leave him messages on his voicemail. If you have a legal issue, my advice is send him copies by: (1) certified mail, return receipt requested; (2) by regular snail mail (get a certiicate of mailing from the postal clerk) since these creatures are notorious for not signing for registered mail; and (3) send a pdf copy of the letter via email. It’s overkill, I know, but you need to lay a “foundation” of notice, etc if you’re going to go after him legally.
Regarding “his” house — I hope you are not putting a penny into that house. Hell, I wouldn’t even mow the lawn, rake the leaves, drag the trash barrels to the curb. It’s his house, let him assume ALL maintenance, taxes, everything on the house.
Personally, I would run it so far down it would look like “Gray Gardens”. Let the neighbors go after him. As for you, I’d sock away every penny you would have put into the house into building your “escape fund”.
Fleecedewe:
Sorry about that. The following advice was directed at you:
Regarding “his” house I hope you are not putting a penny into that house. Hell, I wouldn’t even mow the lawn, rake the leaves, drag the trash barrels to the curb. It’s his house, let him assume ALL maintenance, taxes, everything on the house.
Personally, I would run it so far down it would look like “Gray Gardens”. Let the neighbors go after him. As for you, I’d sock away every penny you would have put into the house into building your “escape fund”.
Thank you for the advice. I made the mistake of being nice and letting him take my son on easter (only since he was going to be at his mothers house and she and I are very close) he stayed for a couple of days which was good..or so I thought as I became sick and would not be able to take care of him…it became clear to me he was using my son to get to me as I had to actually ask him to have him call me so I could stay the night. he couildnt seem to tell me when he was going to bring him back and then he had the nerve to ask me if he could take him to the other womans best friends house….behavior is odd…I wound up picking up my son and getting so angry where as he told me he would takie my son to Arizona (where he is leaving with the other woman..whom he professes to not have a relationship with) if he could but that I wouldnt let him..this coming from a man who ignored his son for the first 3 yrs of his life and did everything he could to get out of paying child support..whenI think of the mental anguish I get so mad…the pain..the tears..the helplessness..the desire to go to sleep and never wake up..I even had to go on medication for anxiety…the hurt has lessened but with every contact the wound is reopened and again the pain unbearable at times…I cannot allow my son to be around such a monstaer who derives such pleasure out of others pain…my son is calm when he is not around and doesnt even ask for him..he only knew him for a few months and even then it was sketchy as he was always out drinking…I wish I could say this was a nightmare and I will wake up soon..I would do anything to “feel” again…he killed my spirit and I have felt like a walking zombie for 3 yrs now…gaining stregnth and then taking steps back..hoping to be able to ccut him off completely and live a normal life again
Oh my gosh…..what a day. I think today was the day my family has finally seen the light of the Sociopath behaviors. A theft occured, and it points to the S. only items he would have a need for were missing, nothing valuable really…..but it crossed their minds that it could be him! WOW….I have no doubt it was, due to what was missing.
I was able to speak with them, and they were willing to finally hear my story of how we have been living in hell and what he has done and continues to do to us! The willingness opened up only because THEY were violated.
Eyes were opened, I guess that is the important thing!
He has been exposed to an important source of supply for him!
They asked what they could do for us…..I said educate yourself and pass along the information you find!!!
Changing your locks might not be such a bad idea also.
🙂
Anyone have any idea why my h would bring no contact against me with false charges, then drop it within a week? Also, why he wants to drag his feet as to the divorce? Has he gained any legal advantage here? He threatened to have my detective records subpoened, then said he won’t since he wants to reconcile (I don’t believe this is the real reason).
When I first tried to get records from the accountant and banker I was told I couldn’t because my h owned 100% of the stock in our business. Apparently when we incorporated (over 10 years ago) he had it set up this way, all the while saying we were co-owners. There are witnesses and paper proof as to these lies. But my attorney doesn’t think this matters. Well, I know it doesn’t as to the settlement but if we go to court wouldn’t it show something about him? I have no idea what all he’s done. I did find out that the manager makes as much as we do which is very odd.
Anyway, any thoughts for someone not in the loop on this stuff — my focus has always been domestic and children. He seems almost deathly afraid of the divorce as if something might come out that he doesn’t want out.
I live in a no fault state and it’s long term marriage. I can only do so much to fight this battle as I have some serious limitations. So, guess I’m asking for pointers on what’s the bare minimum I can do to protect myself? He’s already shown he will act totally out of the good guy character he trys to present to the world, when it comes to the divorce. I know CONTROL is the big thing with him and I feel he takes delight in my weakness — I mean weakness that I have no control over. He seems to want to string me along as long as possible as to when the divorce happens. His motives are always for his own gain — it’s taken me a long time to realize this. So I trust nothing at face value with him anymore.
Financially it would be better for me to stay as we are, married but living separately as we function as we ever have in regards to money. With the divorce my standard of living is going to be reduced dramatically, and I cannot work so as to make up any of it. He for some reason wouldn’t mind going on this way, but I can’t take this perpetual limbo still connected to him.
Any thoughts, minor or otherwise would be greatly appreciated.
yes he is stringing you along – hoping you will keep the status quo and all his nasty lie’s will stay hidden for awhile – just get emotionally out of limbo with him and get all you can get – nobody wins in a divorce – and if you cant work why not detach emotionally and string him along? just a thot…