It’s easy to get obsessed with, fixated on, “labels” and diagnostic categories like sociopath, psychopath, malignant narcissist, narcissist, etc. To be sure, labels and diagnoses can be important and informative.
In the case of “sociopathic” individuals, for instance, we know that there’s no changing them; we know that there’s no real hope for their redemption; and so, if you’ve correctly identified a sociopathic type, you can know that it’s pointless, self-destructive to invest another minute of your time in him. And this is a good thing to know.
But it’s also the case, I’d suggest, that an overfocus on labels and diagnoses can sometimes be a distraction, a form of avoidance, sometimes of obsession, and, in some cases, a habitually poor use of one’s time.
Does it really matter, as several LoveFraud readers have pointed out in various posts over the months, what precise label—accurate or not—you affix to an individual when he’s proven to be emotionally unavailable, or a compulsive liar, or an abusive personality, or a chronically selfish, self-centered partner, or a chronic, comfortable manipulator and deceiver?
Does it really matter, in the end, what you call this? It seems to me that what’s suitable to call this, and perhaps all that’s necessary, sometimes, to call this, is–This is a bad dude for me. This is the wrong dude for me.
Sometimes this is the diagnosis that ultimately matters: Wrong dude for me, or Right dude for me.
Whether he’s a narcissist, sociopath, or neither (in a fullblown sense); whether he’s got another personality disorder, or a hybrid of personality disorders, or whether, again, he fails to meet the full criteria for any personality disorder, sometimes this isn’t the main issue.
Often, what matters most is what it is that you require in a partner, and whether he has the goods to deliver it. And once you establish that he lacks what you require—say, sufficient integrity, emotional generosity, dependability, you name it—then, as I suggest, you’ve nailed the really, and sometimes only, relevant diagnosis—the he’s wrong for me! diagnosis.
I understand that a community of people who’ve suffered some of the common indignities inflicted by exploitive personalities can offer one another invaluable support, and I surely don’t mean to devalue the fantastic healing power of this communal process.
But it’s also important to remember, going forward, that we, each of us, needs to take a good, long look in the mirror and take charge of the kind of relationships that dignify us. I maintain that, in a great many cases, when we’re honest with ourselves, we discover, in examining the history of our relationships, that we may have tolerated, overlooked, or denied behaviors and attitudes that, in retrospect, should have been unacceptable to us.
These may have been the behaviors and attitudes of a sociopath, or just a selfish, immature partner; a narcissist, or just an emotionally unavailable, detached boyfriend or girlfriend.
We may have invested a great deal of false, unrealistic hope in the possibility that this person would change; that we could somehow change this person; that this person would somehow, someday, “get it,” wake up, possibly “grow up,” realize and, finally, properly value,what we had to offer him (or her)!
But as so many of us know all too well, this can be a misguided fantasy that leads us into dangerous, compromising investments–investments which can devolve us into protracted, paralyzing resentment of the individual in whom we made this too-long, too-patient and too-compromising investment; and then get hung-up on eviscerating him for his deviance—when all along, maybe more obviously than we ever wanted to admit, we might have recognized that he was the wrong dude for me.
Again, I sincerely don’t mean to minimize the trauma arising from the violating—sometimes the shockingly violating behaviors—of those in whom we’ve invested our trust. And I particularly don’t mean to minimize the pain engendered from the chronically violating behaviors of serial expoiters.
But I do mean to question whether, sometimes, dwelling on any diagnostic cateory, including the sociopathic spectrum category, can distract us from a most important, and, ultimately, liberating achievement, which is to own that sometimes we end up making terrible choices of partners, regardless of their diagnoses—partners incapable of doing us justice, and capable all too often of doing us terrible injustice.
These are partners—whoever they are, and whatever drives their unacceptable behaviors—whom we want to be grateful to be rid of, and whose destructive qualities, in future relationships, we want to seize every opportunity to steer clear of.
(As usual, my use of male gender pronouns in this article is purely for convenience’s sake. Everything discussed in this article applies equally to female perpetrators of deception and exploitation. This article is copyrighted (c) 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
William Shakespeare said it best, “A Rose by Any other name would smell as sweet”. Or in this case, “A rattlesnake by any other name it still full of poison”. I find it interesting to see the reaction people have to the sociopath label. Yet when you run down the list of character traits, they often say, “I know someone like that”.
For me the help with the “label” was as much about using searching the internet than anything else. What the LABEL did was allow me to read and understand the behavior. I don’t care if they call it WAZOOPEY.
And yes, there are many cross over traits into other labels. The bottom line is, the label is what allows us to finally begin to CONSCIOUSLY examine what the hell is really going on with these people and our relationships with them. It allows us to understand how they think. Understanding that they don’t have a conscience. Understanding that they will NEVER “realize” the hurt they have caused, or even just how bloody stupid they have been. Understanding that no matter what evidence we place in front of them, they will never look back at their lives and say, “Gee, I was a bastard to every single person who loved me. I mistreated, lied to and betrayed them all….Hmmmmmm, I wonder what that says about me.”……..Nope they will just label us all as “bitches” and go on to the next one. Starting out the same way they did with all the rest…but before long they are lying and cheating on them and they don’t even acknowledge to themselves that is IS lying and cheating. “So I slept with someone else. It isn’t really cheating because it didn’t mean anything to me”….Or, “it was just one time”…….But once you have the label, you can learn that their behavior is INCREDIBLEY consistent and predictable AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, it will NEVER change. THEY will never change. They don’t know how and guess what, they don’t give a good God damn. They ONLY care when it gets to the point where they are boxed into a corner and they have so few choices (if any) left. And even then, they don’t really examine themselves. Their sadness if for having to finally deal with consequences for their behavior and the loss to them is the loss of the “schtick” they used for so long. Like with Donna…She NAILED her sociopath on his lying about his military record. To the point where now he won’t DARE to try and pull that card out again. So the loss to him would be the loss of the card. It’s NOT that they look at themselves and feel bad (they can’t feel bad) about doing something that is immoral. It’s NOT that they say, “Wow, I lied to people and that was really wrong of me”. It’s that they can’t use that old trick again. The attachment THEY have is to their bag of tricks. They just CAN’T give them up. Even when they are in a new relationship with a fresh start……Many of them need to keep their secret “behind the scenes” life alive…..to whatever extent….And of course they NEVER think that secret life is hurting the person they are involved with. After all, that person doesn’t know…..”It’s harmless”….WHATEVER. So YES the label helps. Because it brings into focus what you/we are TRULY dealing with. THEN, the focus needs to move OFF the label and onto what WE have to do to get away from this toxic person who will never be anything but BAD NEWS. There’s my two cents.
Dear Spirit 40:
I thank you so much for your posting your thoughts and experience, very validating.
My situation: If it weren’t for the real label of Psychopath, then I would have been with this guy till the end, end of me, I would have lived a horrible life, thank God I’m still young enough to get it right. Am moving x country very soon, can’t wait to start anew!
But anyway, I thought all of his monster-ness was due to being a recovering alcoholic and addict! That was getting me nowhere always making excuses for him. Seeing him through the eyes of being an alcoholic, kept me in way too long. Alanon didn’t help matters. Seeing him as a recovering addict kept me in serious denial about the real truth-he was a damn psychopath!
If it weren’t for finding lf and all the experience and knowledge you share I’d still be in the relationship thinking oh he’s an alky! Yeah, right! But a mere symptom to cover his evil.
The label saved my life and continues to save my life on a daily basis. Reading the books (Stout and Hare’s) are helping me immensely you have no idea (or maybe you do)
Thanks again. Much appreciate your words.
Dear Bullet Proof:
Thank you for your post. Very validating to me. Bad dude, to me, is a long way off from psychopath. Label saved my life!
Thanks again, BF!! Am with you all the way! I wish you much peace.
“He was ’just a bad dude’ I could not comprehend, that had me in a knot of lies, torment and confusion”who could lie so convincingly you would think he was a really beautiful kind hearted sensitive dude, this is not about recognising a bad dude”this is about being driven crazy by lies and deception”if he was ’just a bad dude’ I would be fine”!!!!
Dear Ox,
I think you snagged an important part of this that I had missed; this man had a choice as to how to handle this situation and his choice was suicide. THAT choice is his and his alone, regardless of the narcissistic boss. He had other avenues he could take, others ways to get away, just as so many of us have done. And I do think that those who are on here and others as well, having experienced that kind of pain understand why one would look towards suicide as a possible answer. I know that for myself, when it was the darkest, I certainly contemplated it. BUT, I chose not to because I am, by nature, a fighter and I realized I couldn’t allow the the ex’s actions to drive me to that point. I had to make other CHOICES. And I did and I’m here today…Your analysis was spot on. Thank you!
Spirit40, ifgtl, and kim frederick, Mine hid for years behind the drug addiction. It was total BS. Even when he wasn’t using, he was still exhibiting all of the behaviors and attitudes of a spath. He would go around proclaiming to the world that he had just “fallen off the wagon” for a day or two and of course, everyone would think, “Well, just a day or two..It can’t be THAT bad.” It was nothing but a cop out and excuse to use those spath behaviors. When I started saying it wasn’t just a drug addiction, I was met with a lot of resistance. Today, that resistance is pretty low as he’s alienated almost everyone around him. Nevertheless, in spite of what others said, I made the choice to get him out of my life and LF has done wonders for helping me understand what I was dealing with. And today, he is simply just one BAD dude.
Steve, you’re welcome! I can’t express enough gratitude to those on LF who helped me DEFINE what the ex was. I know that I got lost in the analysis of what the ex is and I see that as a step in the process, until one day, I realized I was learning a lot, I could quote text on what my ex is, but I wasn’t really helping ME. And so, now, I’m deep into healing my own soul, my heart and emotions. I found out that there is only one way through the feelings and that is to FEEL them and it hurts, a lot. It’s required me to take a good look at me and why I allowed this into my life to begin with. Every step is a step towards recovery and some days, I might crawl, but I never, ever have to live with that fear in my life again.
Callista, Spot on!
“The bottom line is, the label is what allows us to finally begin to CONSCIOUSLY examine what the hell is really going on with these people and our relationships with them.”
I So agree with what you wrote-it DOES bring it all out on the conscious level. It’s a STARTING point and we all need that.
DEar Kimmie,
GF you and I are on the same wave length, it is a SPIRITUAL journey toward complete healing. Not at first, but later on when the worst of the abuse is behind us, we must continue on and find our own spirit within us.
The “:Alcoholic” label in AA is one thing, but even AA has an unofficial term of “dry drunk” which is a psychopath that is also an addict…even when they are DRY they are still TOXIC so it is NOT the booze or the dope that makes them bad, it is they are a BAD DUDE to start with.
My egg donor’s brother, Uncle Monster, was a perfect example of a DRY drunk. But alcohol really released the total monster within him and made him worse….but alcohol got rid of all his inhibitions and he really shown!!!!
Callista, you are perfectly right too, “a rose is a rose ….” No matter what we call psychopathy it is POISON…..
Whatever our religious or spiritual beliefs, or whatever our moral compass is based upon, surviving a psychopath in my opinion is a spiritual journey that takes us beyond just the money they stole, the abuse they delivered, our soul they raped, but into the very spiritual CORE of us as human beings.
The healing journey starts out about THEM but ends up about our SELVES I think. We can continue to grow, and they are done.
TOWANDA for us!!!!
Callista,
The label is necessary to have, helping you to become stabilized in a crazy-making environment. A few years ago, I was complaining to my h-spath about his latest shenanigan, how mad I was about it all, and he responded, “Yeh, I’m a bad ass.” I was stunned, not believing what he just said (being in denial, not looking the part in my mind of “a bad ass”). Long story short, it took me more time, having more difficult experiences via the spath, before I finally admitted to myself that there was something fundamentally wrong with him. Doing some independent research on my own, I figured out that he is a sociopath. The label was helpful in that it helped me to know what I was actually dealing with, giving me an idea of how to proceed in the future. I still am not out of shaken-up mode, that’s for sure, still in shock over all that I’ve experienced because of this person, wishing that I’d never had such horrible experiences, not wanting to remember everything that occurred.
Dear ifinallygotthelesson,
The whole thing is just insane and at times will become even more insane.
Yes, as with any illness, you need a name/label for it. It allows you to research what the illness is and what it is about. Defining it allows you, as much as you can, to understand it.
Physically, our monster has been out of our lives for a little over two years now, although she has shown up, especially in the beginning, here and there. Mentally she is still here, not as much as she used to be but, she never goes completely away and I don’t believe she ever will. The damage that she caused is incredible.
You will experience so many different phases throughout your journey of healing. I suppose for some it happens more quickly but, for others it takes what seems like an eternity.
My advice to you ”“ give yourself a break; stay as far away from him as possible; always remember that you are not the crazy one and you never were; don’t make it your mission to tell everyone your story or to try to make them understand; read everything you can about narcissism, sociopaths, personality disorders… Find a really good therapist!
I can tell you, even this far out, I have good days and bad. I hope that with each passing day it gets easier for you.
Hang in there!
Steve and Neveragain-
Neveragain says:
” 1) the first time a therapist said “he is toxic for you” , my reaction was “what do you mean ’FOR ME’” ? It was like I still thought maybe there were people for whom he would NOT be toxic, so whatever was wrong with me, I wanted it fixed, so he would NOT be toxic for me and I could still be with him!
What I didn’t get then, was that anyone for whom he was not toxic, well, it just meant they wouldn’t ever let him close enough to drink the poison. It did NOT mean others would have a wonderful, loving relationship with him, while I (obviously screwed up) would have a toxic relationship with him. ”
You nailed this for me-this is the kind of pernicious thinking that I’ve been mired in for some time. Deep down, I think I thought it was somehow my fault. I can get that it’s not on an intellectual, realistic level, but the emotional integration of that is lacking. So, I still have work to do there.
I think that when the image of the traitor first reveals himself and his serpent tongue, labels and diagnoses can indeed be helpful. It gives us a point of reference for something that is incomprehensible to most. I’m not telling anyone here on LF anything that they don’t already know. A round or two with people that are this disordered is nothing short of traumatic. In fact, I’m not even sure “traumatic” quite captures it. I’ll attest that it’s easy to get caught up in the clinical definitions indefinitely.
But, what I’m learning is that, hell, I have a life to lead! I’ve been involved–off and on (now permanently off) with this person for almost 3 years now. Three years!!! That’s a lot of time to waste. I’ve gotten validation after validation in DROVES that this man is seriously disordered, and yet, because of my poor self-esteem, I have a need to make it about me. Hence, my “stuckness.” And, it’s also the reason why I had gone back although every cell in my body was screaming NO!!!!! There’s work to be done there.
You pointed out to me, Steve, in a very direct manner that resonated deeply, that I was doing myself a terrible disservice by wasting time ruminating about an irreparably damaged man who treated me heinously. In short, BAD DUDE. Moreover, I’ve paid the price due to the ongoing stress. And ya know what? I’ve realized that I’ve kept reminding myself that he’s not worth it, but what’s more, I AM worth moving past this to someone who sees all the things that the people who care about me find so appealing. It needs to be about ME being worth it, NOT about him not being.
Bravo on this post, Steve! Thanks to every dear heart here on LF–truly an inspiring, resilient, compassionate group of people.
p.s I know this is essentially labeling again, but I propose that the DSM get rid of the Cluster B’s and lump them into one group called, simply stated, Incorrigible A**holes.
Hoeful6596~
TOWANDA!!! Hopeful!!!!
You’ve taken some BIG STEPS Hopeful! Remember the game we used to play as kids< "Simon seys?" SIMON Seys take a BIG STEP! Well, you did take a BIG STEP with that post above my dear!
We have a big task in front of us and it is like trying to EAT AN ELEPHANT, there is no way we can do it in ONE BITE, we have to take little bitty bites and chew them uip well but if we take enough bites we will eventually eat an ENTIRE ELEPHANT.
Depending on how old you are you may have actually eaten more than one steer or cow in your life. Think about it, a McDonald's hamberger is about l/4 pound and an average size steer has between 3 and 400 pounds of boneless meat after it is butchered, so if you only ate 1/4 of a pound of meat a day, it would only take you about 4 years to eat an entire cow or steer.
If we even take little bitty steps toward doing the RIGHT things we are going to get there eventually. Slow and steady wins the race! Keep on you are doing Great!!!!! ((((Hugs))))