By Joyce Alexander, RNP (Retired)
I’ve been reading some interesting books lately by some very interesting researchers in the field of psychology—Dr. Barbara Oakley dealing with the themes of altruism, Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen on empathy, and others who are trying to discover what makes people altruistic and how empathy (or lack of it) affects how we behave toward our fellow men. I’ve come to some interesting conclusions concerning my own part in my abuse by multiple people who were/are high in psychopathic traits, and very low in empathy, compassion and altruistic behavior. I have wondered about my own ability to repeatedly “explain away” the abusive behavior that I experienced from family members and “friends,” and to expect that they would change their abusive behavior. What made me think that I could somehow, by appeasing them, forgiving them, and being kind and caring to these people, make them realize just how much they had hurt me, how much I had suffered at their hands? What made me think that I could effect a change in someone else’s character, or instill character into someone who so obviously had no conscience, empathy or remorse?
In my studying about psychopathic behavior in former associates and in family members who have actually repeatedly done horrific violence to others as well as toward me, including battery, rape and actual murders, I have finally come to the conclusion, like many researchers, Dr. Robert Hare, Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen and Dr. Barbara Oakley, that there is little if any chance that a person who is very high in psychopathic traits and very low in empathy, without conscience or the ability to feel remorse for their behavior, is going to effectively change, either in their thinking or their behavior. That much finally got through to me. There are some things that are impossible to do no matter how capable you are.
When a person has had a life-long pattern of bad and/or violent behavior, does not have effective empathy, which is necessary for a person to have a conscience (a personality disorder), the likelihood of change is minimal. “The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior” is a truism that is not likely to change, no matter how “politically correct” it is to wish otherwise.
There are some instances when a person has a medical condition (either genetic or acquired) that keeps them from having empathy—autism or brain damage from a stroke or head injury, for example. But not all people who are without “normal” levels of empathy are violent or seem to enjoy hurting others. For those people lacking empathy and conscience, who do seem to enjoy control over others, or simply seem to enjoy hurting others, there is no “hope.”
Helper’s high
What about those of us on the other hand, though, who seem to have a desire to help others? It has been shown by medical and psychological research that “helping” others gives a chemical “atta boy” to the brains of those who are the helpers. This chemical “reward” for doing good reinforces the desire to “help” others. We are genetically programmed as a species to “do good.” It is rewarding to us and has helped keep the human race alive because we cooperate, help each other, and are to some extent altruistic.
The “pleasure” centers in the human brain respond to chemical stimuli from various sources—from orgasm, from doing good, from various drugs, and from various activities, such as “the runner’s high” that come from physical exertion. It has even been shown that working with your hands to produce something useful gives a chemical reward to the brain. That may be why people like to knit, crochet, build things, fix food, etc. But why, when the reward for “doing good” to someone, especially someone you love, is also accompanied by such intense emotional and/or physical pain, do we keep on doing what causes us pain as well as the “reward” for doing good? Why are we willing to endure the pain in addition to receiving the “reward” for “doing good?”
Narcissism
Some people high in psychopathic traits seem to be extremely high in narcissism, to the point that it is very obvious that they value themselves so far above others as to absolutely have no idea that anyone else has any value at all. They view others as lower than an object, but to the point that the very existence of other people is an insult to the highly narcissistic person. It seems as if the chemical reward for them for “doing good” is replaced by the desire for control.
If the narcissism is very apparent, people around the narcissist may notice this to the point that they don’t want to be around such a person. He is considered “stuck up” and we have probably been told from grade school on up that we should not “brag on ourselves” because it isn’t polite and others won’t like us. So the narcissism that is very apparent may be “off putting” to others around the person. Many people who are very narcissistic, though, have trained themselves not to appear as narcissistic as they actually feel. In other words, they have learned “good manners,” or to mask their true emotions. Those that don’t learn to conceal high levels of narcissism may not be very “popular.” A healthy level of narcissism, though, is an accurate self-assessment of your own abilities. The person who is very narcissistic may not be actually as smart or as competent as he thinks he is, however.
Self-assessment
I’m smart. I know that. I am capable and very able in learning how to do complex tasks such as fly an aircraft, knit, crochet, built things, train animals. I have led a life based on being a “can do” person. I’m somewhat justifiably proud of what I have accomplished in my life. That narcissism is a healthy level of self-assessment of my talents and abilities—yet my narcissism went further than that, I think, into making me think that there was nothing I couldn’t accomplish. Because I could do so many things, and do them well, I overestimated my ability to cope with the people in my life who were high in psychopathic traits and dysfunctional in relationships. I was too narcissistic in thinking I was able to accomplish the impossible—fixing dysfunctional relationships and dysfunctional people.
I think in part, my narcissism was because there were so few things I couldn’t accomplish if I set my mind to it and worked hard at acquiring the knowledge and skills to learn a new task, and perform it well. It never occurred to me that I could not also be “successful” in fixing a bad relationship with a person who had no conscience. Just as my psychopathic son, Patrick, who is extremely bright and also extremely narcissistic, never had any trouble in school, decided there was no one on earth as smart as he was, and that because he was smart, he could “get away with” anything. It never occurred to him that there were cops that were “smart enough” to catch him. Even when he was caught in his most violent crimes, crimes he didn’t even try to cover up, it never occurred to him that he would not be successful next time. When he was caught again, his narcissistic idea that he was the smartest, most capable person on Earth didn’t let him realize that he was wrong. His narcissism precluded him having an accurate self-assessment, or assessment of the capabilities of others.
I too was very narcissistic in my appraisal of my own abilities to effect change in these people, no matter how many times I failed in effecting change in them. No matter how many times I failed, or how bad the pain was because of my failure, it never dawned on me that I wasn’t capable of success if I just tried harder in this endeavor. If I just gave more of myself, if I was just more selfless, more giving, surely next time I would succeed. My own narcissism kept me in the game. My own desire to effect change in someone else’s behavior was fueled by my narcissism, by my poor self-assessment of my abilities.
Ignoring the danger
If a horse or a steer was aggressive and I was not able to effect change in the animal’s behavior, I would eventually give up when the animal continued to try to hurt me. I could at some point come to the conclusion that the potential harm to myself was not worth the effort of trying to control the animal’s violent tendencies. Though I am an excellent animal trainer, I know that not even the best animal trainer in the world can make some animals safe to work with, and the danger of trying to continue to do so foolish. Why could I not see that where it concerned dangerous humans?
Why was I willing to put myself, my life and my health, to say nothing of my happiness and peace, at risk in order to maintain a “relationship” with dangerous people for extended periods of time, decades in some cases? Why did I focus on the potential reward of changing their abusive behavior instead of on the pain they caused?
Family secrets
Part of the answer, I believe, lies in the way I was conditioned in my family, that the family “secrets” must be kept at all costs so that the “neighbors didn’t know.” This culture of shame, and covering up the general knowledge in the larger community that our family was not a “nice normal family” was handed down for generations by abusers and enablers working together to hide the family dysfunction. I participated in this “cover up” by keeping information about my son Patrick’s crimes from general knowledge of my extended family and “the neighbors” for years. I participated in the family myth that he had “found Jesus” when I knew otherwise. I participated in “family Christmas” celebrations that were a travesty and were anything except a “Norman Rockwell Christmas.” I think partly because I was so narcissistic that I thought if I just kept up the pretense long enough it would become real ”¦ especially if the “neighbors didn’t know.”
My coming out of this FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) was traumatic for me as well as for my family members who were as invested in this fantasy family as I was. That change from the status quo on my part released the “hounds of hell” within the family dynamics and resulted in my psychopathic son, Patrick, sending one of his ex-convict buddies to try to regain control of the family, since he couldn’t do this by emotional manipulation from inside his prison cell. He would kill me, if that is what it took in order for him to regain control. Several members of my family co-conspired with him, or at least knew what was going on and did nothing to stop the attack on me. Maintaining the status quo within the dysfunctional family was of paramount importance for everyone involved. Maintaining the FOG without change felt secure to them. Life was predictable. Change was scary.
Seeing the light
It was only the fear of actually losing my life that made me “see the light,” and see just how dangerously I had been behaving in trying to convince myself that I could effect change in these people. They had no conscience, no empathy, and enjoyed a high level of narcissism that made them believe themselves invincible. I too had felt invincible, and was way too narcissistic in my own self-assessment of what my capabilities were. I could not control these people, I could not change them, and they were too dangerous to deal with.
Now I try to look at myself more realistically, and to see that while I am a smart, capable person, there are some things that I am not capable of, and I need to be aware of these things. While I was realistic and humble enough to realize that there are some animals I can’t safely train, I am now humble enough to admit there are some dangerous people I can’t afford to associate with either, no matter how altruistic I feel or how much reward I get from helping others. The rewards I get from being “helpful” to others must also be tempered with the humility that I am not all-powerful in my abilities with people, any more than I am with animals. Just as I must assess the potential benefit of helping a person or training an animal, I must also assess the potential “costs” in terms I can afford to pay. While I still feel good when I am able to help someone else, I am no longer willing to overlook the repeated bad behavior of others and convince myself that if I am just “helpful enough” that I can change them.
I must take responsibility for my own life, my own behavior, and set my boundaries in such a way that I eliminate those dangerous relationships, no matter how smart or capable I am in other aspects of my life. There are just some things we can’t accomplish no matter how hard we work, and changing someone else is one of those things.
gem – doesn’t your dream just say it all! – the joy of new birth, the unnatural way she tried to be nourished, and your own understanding of what you need to do to save yourself from her violence. xo one joy
onestep – I trust myself to be a better judge of character, more so now than ever before…and I think you can too…..just be.
you are right hens, ‘just be’….but it is the goal, not so much the path yet…i am still too raw an excitable for it to be the path …yet.
just be…and on that note, peace out. xo
Alicia,
I like your kid. Send him over my way, he can be my therapist.
It seems like kids really do have a clear insight into what’s what. They aren’t as confuddled because they haven’t had years of people lying to them. They are still working with the truth that comes from the subconcious.
what if i fall for another IT?
I saw a television show yesterday on people just like him: people with multiple personality disorders and wow, it fit him right to a “T”! It was a combination of ADHD, BIPOLAR, and a couple other things. It makes them NEVER sit down and sit still; they are always in a
panic and paranoid and anxious and they lie and manipulate to get whatever they want. They have learned through all their actions, that bullying gets them what they want. They said that NOBODY can stand to be around them very long because they are so taxing.
Have you ever met that kind? Where they are so smart but yet soooo ADHD??? Can’t sit still for five minutes and there is nothing you can do to make them any different than what they are. I was always a ‘calming’ effect for him but he used to say I was boring.
We never did anything exciting. He didn’t like crowds, always wanting to stay away from them because he KNEW how he acted. I am talking just a very sick person. I don’t know how a person can function, long, in this life, acting that way. He sucks off people
because he don’t know how to do these things for himself. Constant ticks: with the hands and the blinking eyes and shouting instead of talking in a normal voice. Yikes. I noticed it when I first met him. It stuck out like a sore thumb and I should have listened to my instincts – I somehow KNEW this relationship was going to be trouble but I went ahead with it anyways because I bought into all his lies and manipulation and FELT SORRY FOR IT. For the next five years, it wrecked havoc on me and my life, almost taking it away from me in more ways than one.
I am not going to live this way anymore. I made a conscious decision on 1JAN, speaking to the ex wife, TELLING HER that this was going to get all behind me in this new year and that I was not going to entertain any of this anymore, no matter how I felt. She agreed. She was going to try doing the exact same thing.
In fact, I think she was doing better than ME! Then, again, she never had the same kind of ‘bond’ with it that I had gotten involved in. What an ugly person “IT” is. I tried to ‘help’ it and there is no helping it. The only help there is IS: THEM helping YOU into an insane asylum OR a coffin.
I am NOT wasting my life, nor thoughts, on ANYONE so foul and he SAYS he ‘can’t help himself’ but yet he will get no help. He LIKES being the way he is. WHY WOULD HE WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING??? He likes being a sex addict, picking up woman after woman, off the internet. He LIKES always creating the drama and chaos and playing all the cards “IT’s” way. They find that amusing, you know. And, it’s absolutely HILARIOUS that they make you so upset and feel so bad. That is a difficult concept to grasp, I know, but every time we show them our ‘down’ feelings, they ‘get off’ on it and find it very amusing. No, I want it no where near me anymore. It has taken me just about four years to wake up to this little ‘roadshow’ and it’s not going to continue. Sick or not, we all must be responsible for our actions. Our choices. If we can’t be responsible then we have the responsibility to find a way to prevent ourselves from doing these nasty, vile, mean things to others, that are so totally unacceptable, but also everything A-MORAL, they do, causing harm to others. And, if this, what we have been coming through is NOT considered ‘harming a person intentionally’, what is? Just because they haven’t physically HARMED US ON THE OUTSIDE and left bruises and cuts….just because they haven’t left us murdered somewhere in the middle of no where, buried in a dirt hole, in the middle of the desert, some place – does that mean that our INJURIES and OUR VICTIMIZATION is not equally as important nor urgent? Everyone waits until the bodies start showing up and THEN they do something about it. It’s always the same.
You hear about it in the news constantly. I know at least you have heard SOME of the stories. I am in the L.A. area, and you know how the stories go….I have been many places in the world and there is no disregard like there is in L.A. and in the poorer areas. I wonder if they did a survey on the amount of spaths in L.A. it would probably be off the hook. Hmmmm? Such horrid, ugly, miserable things I have heard in the news’.
I tend to gauge (however assumptive this may be) other peoples behavior and ability to change bad behavior on the way my life has gone. I was raised by my maternal Grandfather, my mother being a heroin addict my entire life, until she died an empty, pointless life over some 25 years ago now. She died alone. She was never a “MOM” – always in trouble with the law. She Deserted ME at the hospital at birth, born addicted to the poison that snuffed her whole life. She was like that too…that same personality. I grew up seeing my ‘real mom’ in the midst of her addiction. She had made me prey, even as a child, by her addiction and her illness.
I have seen ugly, horrid, horrible things from the age of 3 years old. I have been sexually abused by a family member; I have been beaten by an abusive Grandmother….kidnapped and held for drug debts “mom” owed. And, yet, if I can say that “I” do not do these mean and ugly things to people, if “I” don’t allow MY CHILDHOOD and MY UPBRINGING to enter into play as a ‘reason’ that enables me to do all these horrid things, WITH THAT EXCUSE – in my own conscious and mind, WHAT IS THEIR EXCUSE???? I don’t have needle marks in my arms nor locked up in jail, hooking for drug money or in a hospital. Aren’t we all suppose to be responsible for ourselves and our actions? I would think that YES. However, THEY manipulate and twist things so they have YOU FEELING GUILTY FOR YOUR OWN COMPASSIONS AND CARING. HELLOOO!!!!! Twisted logic and we just buy right into it!
No; I am sorry that things are like they are for these people. Truly. It must be a world of hurt to be so ugly. But, that does NOT mean “I” have to continue being the prey. And I am not. I intend to walk away from this stronger and more wise and more ‘complete’ a human being than I ever have before and although I am sure “IT” is probably taking a great deal of credit for the ‘alteration’, in his own, sick, little mind, he deserves none. It has been “ME” fighting for my life over here. It has been “HIM” miles and miles away…throwing excuses in the wind. This is so finished.
I am not going to allow one more moment of my life to be absorbed by this and as I step out of this ring of fire,
I am attempting to ‘calm’ my extreme hatred for the person that used to call himself MY BEST FRIEND. In my book, FRIENDS don’t treat FRIENDS the way I have been treated and although I am close to stepping out of that ring of fire, I am also stepping into a future that has no time frame.
Every day and every moment is priceless to me and they are flitting by me quicker than I can keep track of. It seems that 9 years ago was just yesterday. I look at the calendar and it shocks me some more that I actually sat here for five years, loving someone, so un-
conditionally, and almost have lost my life over it. I look at the calendar and I can’t believe that time has passed me by like this. I was a hostage. In every sense of the world except the bindings and the locks. It is horrid people can get away with these kind of things. We have a responsibility, I believe… making people aware everywhere we go.
I am going to start volunteering my legal services pro bono to the local senior center and have plans on making them aware. I am going to print out some of Donna’s flyers on the site and delivering them to older’, ‘vulnerable’, ladies, such as myself. People need to be aware, especially with the age of high technology.
Just sharing and my thoughts…
Sorry about the long post ~
Love ~ Dupey
Super chic – what’s with all the one liners? I don’t know if you responded to the people’s questions the other day, as I find it difficult to find the posts some times.
what’s going on girl?
and what will happen is: you will write about ti here and find the strenght and have our support to kick it to the curb FAST. Same with me. LF=safety net.
superchic – onestep is right. personally i will never fall for another it. I will never fall,,,,I am just not that gullible anymore..nobody but nobody is worth fallin for,,,I am just not the same person after the last it,,,I dont need to fall,,,I am just gonna be me and if somebody comes along I will proceed with caution and if things become uncomfortable then I still have me to count on….sounds like you have met someone, nothin wrong with that,,just remember your life lesson and have fun,,trust yourself and you will be ok….
So I took the collective advice and decided to concentrate on bettering myself. I decided to pick up reading and to get my mental health together. I’m trying to get depression, anxiety and ADHD off the ground. I was having trouble trying to get it sorted out because my insurance is only covered locally. The lady I stayed with insisted in I get parental consent because I’m dealing with medication. I’m just trying to do whatever it takes to get on the right track. On the other hand, my dad keeps fabricating “issues” with me. It’s so annoying. Yesterday, for example, he basically told me I dont care about your eye surgery cause I have more important things to do. So I was like okay I will find a way to go myself. So I found what buses I needed to take and the metro stops. So I successfully got there by God’s grace and my eye’s doing great. Apparently, he told everybody I didn’t need his help and that I basically told him he has no role in this process. So again a lecture on how I treat my dad from girlfriend to best friend. He keeps fabricating stuff like there’s drama with me. His gf is like going along with it. Oh, I stopped talking to her by the way. It’s decreased the level of unnecessary crap by a lot. I feel bad cause she used to say she took me as a sister. But I had to cut her off. My dad wants me to go his company picnic with him but I’m not sure if it’s a good idea. He gets angry when you aren’t making him look good. I just want peace like now!
Interesting concepts, One/Joy—and the conversations afterward. Yes, I know that my “narcissism” is pretty much like “enabling” or “co-dependent” (I actually don’t like the term co-dependent, but I’ll “go with” the “enabling”) But I think the NARCISSISM is WHY I enabled him. If I had not been quite so narcissistic, so self assured that I could ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING then I might have quit enabling him. (them) My own lack of a realistic self assessment was what I think brought me down….made me continue on the same track (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity)
I’ve said before too….that learning to TRUST MYSELF to KEEP MYSELF SAFE is the most important thing we lose….I think what you and Henry were discussing is your loss of trust in yourselves to get close to someone else…because the last time you did get really close to someone else you got HURT BADLY! But I have seen so much growth in both of you over the years that I think you are both approaching the wisdom to enable you to be safe in getting close, you are just maybe a bit scared yet….and that’s okay.l (*I realize here I am reading your minds, but I am just making observations of what you are thinking by what I “see” in your posts and changes in attitude in the last year +) Both of you sound “sane” now, and are starting to show good judgment in many ways, as well as wisdom and neither of you seem even 1/10th as raw as you were.
All of us want and need “love” in our lives, “connectedness” in our lives….and you know that simply means we are HUMAN! WOW!!!! But our “connectedness” may not be in the form of another romantic partner (at least not right now) but we still want CONNECTION and we can have that….but we just have to use our KNOWLEDGE of the signs of predators and keep ourselves safe.
One, that man reaching out to you….and you being scared….I can understand HIS NEED to reach out to someone….I can understand your FEAR of “drama” but at the same time, WHO should know better what to say to someone who was reaching out because of their internal pain caused by drama than YOU?
Being honest with someone involved in DRAMA is difficult and scary, but at the same time, If my honesty can help someone overcome that drama, to get out of it, or help someone break out of a bad situation….more power to it! I try not to be “hateful” in my “honesty”—my step father used to say “You can tell a girl her face would stop TIME, or you can tell her it would STOP A CLOCK so just be a bit tactful” my husband used to tell people that I was so TACTFUL I could “tell people to go to hell and make them HAPPY TO BE ON THEIR WAY.” LOL But there is something in both of those sayings….and I realize that if I do give someone advice and they DO NOT TAKE IT and get back into trouble or stay in trouble, I can’t be upset because “they didn’t listen to me.” Even if they ASK me for my advice or opinion and I give it and they “discount or devalue it” and don’t take it….and it turns out that I was right because they get into deeper trouble, still…IT IS THEIR LIFE, AND THEIR CONSEQUENCE. That is what I have had to learn, where I have had to stop the desire to “fix” and the arrogance that I am ABLE TO FIX…
My friend’s wife, the “Drama Queen” that I talk about all the time is gonna stay in financial trouble all the time by the way she spends and makes excuses for how she does it and why, and be embroiled in drama all the time. In order to be in the life of my friend, my sons and I have to put up with at least a small ration of her…it used to make me GRIND MY TEETH to even be around her…..she has not changed and is NOT GOING to change….but what HAS CHANGED is the way I RELATE TO HER. By no longer expecting her to change I can ACCEPT HER the way she is.
By setting boundaries about what I will discuss with her and sticking to them, I keep her from irritating me so that I can tolerate her company. Her PREFERRED CONVERSATION is to talk about her husband being unreasonable about X, Y or Z and how she is ENTITLED to feel A, B or C because of his unreasonable attitude.
When she and I are together, and she starts her “preferred conversation” I simply say, “Susie, I prefer to discuss ANYTHING except your and John’s constant bickering, so let’s discuss the weather, or your constipation of the bowels, but we will NOT discuss your bickering with John.”
It took a while to get it through to her, but with only a few reminders here and there, I can stand to spend a half day or a day with her without feeling like I want to “kill something” afterward. LOL
If someone asks me my opinion, I will give it to them….if they don’t take it and things turn out badly…once…and they ask again, I may give it to them again….but if this becomes a PATTERN of asking for advice, ignoring advice, then when it turns out badly asking for advice again and again and again…then I see a pattern of DRAMA there.
Sometimes we see it here on LoveFraud. I tend to be a bit more tolerant here because people who have been severely traumatized by a psychopathic encounter may need a bit more support, but after they have had that support and have “gotten sane” again, I expect them to ACT sane at least most of the time. If they don’t, then I stop giving them direct advice because I am not going to waste my time and fingers…unless it is something I think someone else might profit from.
Different forms of DRAMA can be addicting as well….and I just read a really good quote from a book I have been reading written by a woman who told about her horrible childhood of abuse by her alcoholic father and her narcissistic and irresponsible mother, at her father’s funeral they asked for a toast, something good to say about her father and living with him, finally her N mother came up with one that was “true” and “nice” it was “it was never boring living with him.” Yea, my life has NEVER BEEN BORING….plenty of drama that I either tolerated from others or created myself by tolerating drama from others. But now, I WANT BORING, I want CALM, PEACE, and TRANQUILITY.