By | July 22, 2010 175 Comments

When Sociopaths Follow The Rules

Aren’t sociopaths supposed to be rule-breakers? Isn’t this a main indicator of their sociopathy? If so, then what’s up with sociopaths when they’re following, not breaking, the rules?

Hmm. This appears to be confusing, but then again, is it really?

Perhaps it’s oversimplistic to see sociopaths as incapable of following rules? In the grand scheme of things, I think it’s fair to say that sociopaths will break rules; they will violate boundaries; they will hurt and violate others with a startling—indeed sociopathic—lack of accountability and conscience.

The sociopath, I think we can say reasonably, will inevitably transgress others, and he will transgress them heartlessly.

However, when we compress the grand scheme of things into something less grand—for instance, day to day, week to week, month to month, even for longer periods—things may be different. When we break down time into shorter periods, we discover that sociopaths, much like many individuals gripped by compulsive, addictive tendencies, often possess the capacity, at least temporarily, to suppress their inclinations—in the sociopath’s case, his inclination to violate and exploit.

Otherwise, how would the sociopath manage, as often as he does, to operate so effectively undetected, or under-detected? In other words, if sociopaths couldn’t, and didn’t, follow rules; indeed, follow many rules—social rules, legal rules, interpersonal rules, employment rules—then there could be no such thing as the sociopath’s “mask?”

Because the sociopath’s mask, ironically, is dependent on, supported by, his capacity to follow rules.

The sociopath’s mask, in a certain sense, is precisely this—the social, legal and interpersonal conventions and rules he follows between, or in simultaneity with, his violating, exploitive behaviors.

His mask is his capacity to follow enough rules, enough of the time, to “blend in,” to seem normal and well-adjusted, to cast himself as among the least likely suspects to be perpetrating the transgressions he perpetrates while operating behind the mask.

And so there is a certain irony here. Yes, the sociopath, in the greater scheme of things, is a rule-breaker, a transgressor with a seriously defective conscience. And yet, at least in many cases, in the smaller scheme of things, he is a good enough rule follower to abet the construction of the very mask behind which he unconscionably violates, or surely will unconscionably violate, his victim(s).

(This article is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is strictly for convenience’s sake, and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)

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Ox Drover

Thanks for this article Steve, because during the early stages of the “love bombing” many Psychopaths can and do follow rules. It isn’t that they don’t know how to follow the rules or even what those rules are, so they can choose to NOT STEAL NOW when they know that in a week or month they can GET IT ALL if they are patient and wait a bit building up your trust in them.

Sometimes the con can go on for years, even decades.

Or they may be breaking all the rules in one section of their lives which is kept secret from everyone else….for example the kindly neighborhood pediatrician I read about the other day who was arrested for video taping and sexually molesting children in his practice over a period of 9 years that they know about.

No one who knew him knew he was doing the “rule breaking” so hiding the rules they do break is another form of cammo to help them hide the rule breaking behavior.

How may people on this blog have had their psychopath cheat on them sexually behind their backs. Or beat them or other wise abuse them while keeping the maskk up in PUBLIC, or even in front of the children in the home.

I think it is their abilities to be or play different characters in different venues that makes them so versitile.



I’m so glad you wrote this article. I have had sooo many questions on why my husband doesn’t seem to have empathy or remorse and is not a con artist. Maybe he is a con artist when it comes to relationships because he has people believing he is one way when in reality he is another.

He works hard when he has a challenge because he enjoys the challenge. It’s not necessarily because he wants to work hard. I noticed that he gets a team of really talented people to work for him and they are very loyal. He manipulates people to do the jobs he is unable or unwilling to do and says people really love to work for him.

The thing that really gives him away is his crying. It is completely fake and hard to watch. In the 20 years I’ve known him he only started crying when I told him I wanted a divorce, not when there was a death of a close family member or even when his daughter doesn’t want to be alone with him because he is inappropriate. His crying is superficial at best. Even daughter said he had crocodile tears.

It’s so bizzare that he has been able to fool so many for so long. I wonder if his mom has some idea because she snapped at him for joking about something, told him never to talk to her like that again. Daughter A said it was weird how grandma got so angry at dad. She looked at him like she hated him and she is a sweet, kind, caring person. She has always been good to me. One of those moments when you know that something isn’t right.

He has kept up his mask for a very long time. When I met him he was losing his house to foreclosure, he might have had some bad business deals then. I found out from intelius that his house was in his sisters name. It’s a mystery.

He never looks you in the eyes when you are talking, (except when he wants you to look him in the eyes cuz he wants you to know he’s not lying), he looks around the room but tells me he is paying attention. It’s like he has a bad case of ADHD, always fidgiting. Likes excitement too, motorcycles, race cars, wanted to get an airplane at one point, playing in a rock band, running marathons, climbing mountains, always wants the challenge of something new.

Those things would all be fine if he actually had emotions.

kim frederick

Steve, as always, I enjoyed reading this article.

I think itis precisely because a spath IS Capable of following the rules, and like you say, DOES follow them, (just enough to get by) that they are so insideously addictive, so to speak.

It makes it difficult to attach a lable to them…it’s hard to say, “He’s a bad man, so he’s not good for me.”

It causes confusion and ambivalence in the victim, and probably fosters more rather than less dependancy. The victim also gets locked in to trying to make sense of it all.

I remember reading somewhere, years ago, that the way to make a cat neurotic is to call it once and feed it, call it a second time and kick it, etc etc etc.

Isn’t it true that you strengthen a given response in others most by intermittant reward?

I am curious, though, why, in the last paragraph, you choose the word, “unconscionably”. Do you mean without conscience? Do you think psychopaths are conscience of their own evil nature, or do they honestly believe in their own entitlement,? We’ve all heard that they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them.

Frank Lee Speaking

I knew one sociopath who was really afraid about breaking the law. Was so worried about being caught. Not sure why, but if there was anything illegal in terms of being in real trouble over it this sociopath wouldn’t touch it. Yet in a moral and psychological sense the same sociopath was extreme.

If you ran a despotic regime I would imagine that rule following sociopaths would come in very useful.


No it’s impossible….it must be in our destiny to tangle with the sociopath because there is no way of telling them apart from the wonderful people out there…..the P I tangled with was such a character of depth…he really communicated to me he was ‘on board’ and we were ‘a team together’ in this life…he really worked hard at coming across as co creator of all that was good… now you are telling me that this idiot monster has it so evenly balanced between following rules and not following them…. my conclusion would be that it is extremely hard to distinguish a psychopath/sociopath from a normal human being….oh yeah…that’s how we got caught!!!!

kim frederick



Dear Frank Lee
Have you checked this guy’s criminal record? He has probably done significant time and doesn’t want to do it again.
Mine is SO smooth, he tows the line legally now. He gets his way thru manipulation, especially the “feel sorry for me” trick.


Steve, thank you very much for this article – it touches on the “garden variety” of sociopath. They go to work, pay their bills, and everything appears to be so very “normal.” Behind closed doors, they are Mr. Hyde (or, Mrs. Hyde) and that’s what baffles the non-spaths who are ensnared. They must be doing SOMETHING right because their bills are paid and they go to work, etc.

Very, very poignant insight, here. Thanks, again.

Brightest blessings.


This is going to be a thought provoking thread. My X would insist I buckle up just to drive down the driveway. I am more lax about that, driving unbuckled until I get on the main road out of here..(OMG) yes I break the law..But if he went into a drunk rage he would drive resklessly to the point of wrecking into trees running stops signs etc..He didnt have a pot to pee in when he came here, no drivers licence, a dui that hadnt been taken care of ten years pryor. But once I helped him retain his license and helped get him a car he was good to pay his part and insisted on paying on time..But he got a 750.00 check from Insurance that was to be paid on his dental bill and he blew it at the casino (so he said…but back to my point..he functioned very well in his circle of bar friends but none would come to the birthday bash I planned for him ( that was a bad day because I got all his anger thrown at me for having the birthday party, and I could see he was really upset that no one came, and I felt even more sorry for him back and forth back and forth . was it him or was it me? I do love to garden so maybe I am just a garden variety dysfunctional something. Or maybe I am just fine the way I am because I dont get close to anyone these days. I used to fall in love with the telephone operator’s, now find it hard to trust anyone’s intentions.


At times, they follow the rules to a T, in order to gain crediblity.

that is part of what makes them so confusing..


she is able to follow rules well enough to not get caught by the law- although i am sure she’d love to have seen what she could ‘get out of me’, she got caught with her ‘mail fraud’ behavior with one of the last dupes, so she’s real careful not to accept gifts via the mail.

she would say things like: just do what the landlord wants, don’t let it become a ‘thing’, don’t stand up to the those miscreants yelling and hollering on the street in front of your place, i think your father has strings attached to that money what is he after, that person you work with is playing you, i wish you and my bf would just have a fight and get it over with, good true people would never, only a predatory person can tell another predatory person…and on and on and on…..;funny how some things rise as time goes on. lately it’s been all these little do and don’t edicts of the various characters.

today i met with an ‘important’ board member of the org i am working for. he is one of the peeps who interviewed me. the one that stayed awake, but who was really hard to read. he’s a freking weird one. it’s 12 hours later and i am still affected. he’s dismissive, bombastic, seems like a f***ing control freak.

oh yah….

now, what do i do with that?

really unhinged me. thanks once again to the various toxins, including j. the spath that have eroded my ability to think and to be in the world.

think this guy has big potential to be an N – and yesss, he is very successful in business.


mine used to call faithfully – i mean FAITHFULLY. never missed a call – now this is impressive within the context of the con – she had more than one con running and she had several characters deeply involved with a few people, AND she had a ‘real’ life with a husband and a couple of life long live in dupes.

usually she would write me as 2 characters most days – at least. and sometimes really long emails, AND talk to me for a couple of hours. faithfully. and yessss, it built trust and dependence on my part.

Ox Drover

Rules are “fluid” and “situational” with the psychopaths…some apply to them, some to others, and some situations…just “depends”….

Lying is a TERRIBLE thing, unless the P is doing it, and then it is okay cause it was NECESSARY….if you, however, lie to them, BIGGGGGGG difference and you should be harshly punished.

I wish you guys could just get it through your thick heads that they are SPECIAL and for them the RULES can bend, because they are ENTITLED don’t you know. Everything that is theirs is theirs and everything that is yours is theirs cause that’s just the way it SHOULD be…after all, they DESERVE IT! Whesh, I just tell you and tell you how worthless you are and you never seem to get it. Now beg me to kick you. ROTFLMAO Sound like anyone you know! LOL


Women Explode – thats is a great website. I have both energys male and female. I empathize with both sex’s, but I am not Bi sexual. Think I will join the website as Henryetta just in case I am not welcome.


oxy are you being sarcastic tonite?

Ox Drover

Yea, Henry, you sure caught that one—and I thought I was being so sub-till! LOL

I guess EB is still computerless! I miss that chick!!!

This weather is horrible! I hope you are drinking plenty of water Henry when you are outside working and you better get to bed, you need to have your work done outside by 9 a.m. because after that it is too hot for any living thing outside! Be careful in theh eat, I’m staying inside.


Ox I cant remember the last time somebody told me to get to bed. I work till 2pm and then start up again around 6:30 pm till dark. I drink lot’s of water, the heat is better lately because the humidity is down. I tolerate heat better than the cold…ok I am off to bed with three weiner’s and I bet your jealous… me


…bet she’s jealous, of the weiner’s! 😉

that’s another damn thing the j ppath used to say allll the time, better get to bed….thought it was a misplaced sense of responsibility or ‘his’ part. now i figure her husband was probably wanting her attn. an this is funny, ’cause she sued to pretend she was calling from another time zone most of the time, and would wake in the middle of the night naturally – but that i was supposed to feel sorry for him ’cause he couldn’t sleep – when she was in a time zone that was actually an hour f*****g earlier than me, so IT WAS BLOODY WELL ME STAYING UP LATE.


Yipeeeeeee IayIayIay……the computer is home!!!!
Dang….a week!

So…..Hi Ya’ll!!!!

I got ANOTHER dupe call tonight……he picks peeps that were friends with us both (sorta)….to contact me.
Tonight it was a call out of the blue….from a guy I haven’t spoken to in at least 5 years!
He say’s….EB….Hi it’s shithead……I was VERY COLD and distant….I said….”WHAT”.
He jumps right into his ‘need’….from me…..
He says…..Do you know anyone who has a jetski I can rent?
I said…no.
He said, nobody……(hint, hint,hint).
I said NO.
NO. They rent them at the hotel on the beach and the next town over…….
Pause…..silence…..(not the response he wanted).

He never asked specifically to rent mine?……but I was supposed to jump on que and say…..YEAH…..I got one!

He knows we ‘used’ to have one…..but I would never in a millilon years (even then) loan it out.


So…….he said, he didn’t want to rent on from the rental places because he’s cheap and they don’t go as fast.

I never responded.

Awkward silence…..(For him)! 🙂

I said…….Why are you calling me, don’t call me again!

He said, why are you so cold.

Are you still sick…..I said….NO….I died!

He said spath called him a ‘few months ago’….(meaning tonight)…….and I siad….Oh, did he happen to mention his pending jail sentence of FIFTEEN YEARS…..
He coughed and choked and said….WHAT?

I said….well if your a freind of his….you know this already…..
He then chokes out that he’s spoken to him when spath was in Hawaii….and Florida…….and said…he sure get’s around a lot…..I said…..yeah, well…..that’s what happens when you are on the run! HAHA!
Spath told him everything was WONDERFUL…..and I stopped him……I said… 48 years old……you lose everything you ever had, you kids won’t have anything to do with you…..and your faceing felony drug charges…..and EVERYTHINGS WONDERFUL??????? Does that make any sense?
I said……he always give you the impression taht ….don’t you wish you were him? He agreed…..I said….well…..give THAT some thought…..and don’t call me again!
He said….well, we may stop by when we are in town…..I said, yeah…..maybe…….Fair warning…..I carry a concealed weapon, got the cops on speeddial and my whole property is under 24 hour survelience and floodlit…… keep that in mind……

Heres the translation of this call…..spath has paid him to come into town……thinking i’d be happy and thrilled to ‘rent’ him the jetski……and spath would bolt town with it and move it to Colorado to his brothers…..on his way to his pretrial in that other state…….

This morning I contacted a contractor I worked closely with on a project about 5 years ago…..I loved this guy and his brother and the whole family……we went camping (spath excluded). I needed a bid on a job he could do, so I looked him up again……
I said, hey Steven….this is EB…..SILENCE…..
He said, ‘who is this’ ……’this isn’t funny’……very sternly….
I said….It’s EB……He said..>EB?????
Yeah…..EB……you know….from sally and jeffs house…..
He said, I know who you are……but are you SURE this is you, because this isn’t a joke……
I’m like….yeah….i’t me!!!
He said… can you call me, your dead?!?!?!?!?!!?

I said…..well, I didn’t like it ‘there’, so I came back….and laughed, knowing now spath had gotten to him……

REally weird talking to someone who thought you were dead!!

He’s so thrilled I’m alive, he’s coming up for breakfast in the am to see me!!!

I said…..Hey, BTW…..did you go to my funeral??????
He laughed and said….NO. I said…..well I’m pissed off you didn’t go!

He said spath called him a few months ago…….and he didn’t return his call……but he did speak to him last year……he got a call out of the blue and his caller ID didn’t get the number…..but again…..all is great in spathland….
He was really pissed to find out he was lied to and they mourned me……he said, I cross his mind from time to time and all the fun we used to have……and he now felt betrayed…..

How sick do they stoop?

So….it’s EB….dead woman walking…wreaking havok with the BACKSPATH!!!!


Don’t know if anyone has seen this – it’s pretty old, but I’ve watched it a couple of times and read through the comments and it’s just got me thinking so much.

It’s the story of a child who was badly abused in infancy and then displayed severe socipath type behaviours towards her adoptive family. Apparently now she is a pediatric nurse and educates others about early attachment disorders.

This is the perfect thread to post the link to – watch all three parts and you’ll see an innovative method of dealing with her behaviour by her respite home. I have to wonder if early attachment is part of this disorder? And which came first – the socipathy that caused the attachment problem or the attachment problem that caused the sociopathy>? Is this child the norm or an exception – a type of subset of sociopaths who somehow are treated out of it or are excellent actors? I’m puzzled by it all and would be interested to hear the thoughts of others on this video.

EB–You ROCK, exclamation mark{my computer wont type certain numbers and symbols, dont know why.}
But Hey,, you ROCKK||girl.

You are AWESOME.
Mama gemXX


Thanks mamma gem!!!



And now I’ve finally read the article and all the comments … I can so relate to this puzzlement that they can seemingly follow the rules in some instances and not in others. Mine could hold down a job – a fulltime job, but drove drunk and with no licence after it was suspended. He could do the grocery shopping (not often mind you) and not go nuts with the money for it, but would hide household bills in his sock drawer.

It seems to me that the effort of constantly living a lie ‘by the rules’ of the fake character they’ve created causes so much pressure that occasionally there are cracks – maybe they know the right thing to do and just can’t be bothered? I don’t know – now I’m puzzling a bit about this. The problems my ex had were mainly lying and compulsive spending (apart from the familiar superficial charm, flat affect, lack of conscience and all theother signs we all know so well) His specialty was random spending and lying like other people breathe. Are there different genres of sociopaths? I’ve seen here that some have the prediliction towards multiple affairs and sex addiction, others have active substance abuse problems (mine abused booze – can’t be sure he didn’t have affairs but not that were found). It looks like each individual sociopath has many of the traits, but some of those traits are more PRONOUNCED. What does everyone else think?

Erin – how lovely to see you – risen from the dead!!! What a spectacular lie to tell – one that obviously can be combusted without much effort by your merely showing up somewhere. what audacity!


polly: ‘constantly living a lie ’by the rules’ of the fake character they’ve created’ this is particularly salient for me as the character(S) all came with rules and codes that they followed – they were often practiced and preached so intensively that i didn’t even notice at first when the exact opposite of the ‘rules’ (such as kindness) were practiced as the PREACHING ABOUT WHO THEY WERE GOT LOUDER AND LOUDER AS THE PRACTICE ERODED.


EB, indeed – back from the dead is a great place to be! LMAO!!!! It’s so interesting how often spaths use the “someone died” ploy in their endless spath games, eh?

Pollyannanomore, my exposure to spaths has taught me one thing: they all have the same cycles. Whether their scams involve money, sex, or substance abuse, they cannot – will not – DO NOT – vary in their games. Regardless of their scams, their next move can often be called way in advance. It’s almost as if these methods and cycles are hard-wired in each one of them by the same developer. Crazyiness.

OxD was spot-on. The rules are flexible with spaths – rules can be twisted, bent, contorted, and discarded as the spath sees fit. When they DO “follow” rules, I believe that it’s a conscious effort to “prove” that they are “good” people. “See? I put my seatbelt on, so I’m a law-abiding citizen. Just because I made a false insurance claim doesn’t make me a ‘bad’ person.”

Brightest blessings! 😀


One_step, exactly!!! The louder they proclaim their “goodness,” the worse their behaviors become. Spath son is the most vociferous of Christians and proclaims to be such a devout follower. YET…this same pious person can willingly perpetrate fraud, forge government documents, etc., to live scot-free without having a job! ROTFLMAOTMNR!!!


eb – Your ex is SUCH a F**ktard!

Ox Drover

EB, DEAD??????? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

I am just NOT believing the f-tard killed you and you didn’t know it. Who was it, that said “the reports of my death are premature?” LOL or something to that order. I imagine your friend was totally gobsmacked to get a phone call from HELL! LOL You have made my day EB, that is the best laugh I have had in a long time!!!!!

Oh, and I love the friend calling you and wanting to RENT a jet ski without “knowing” you had one. LOL YOUR X IS SO RETARDED. I guess he thought that SUBTLE call would be so SLICK and he’d get the ski and you’d feel so freaking stooopppid!!!!!

I actually think yours is GETTING DESPERATE and he might even go on the RUN for real and not show up for court….after all the rules don’t apply to him, you know. He is way too good to go to jail—just like Lyndsay. LOL I’m putting my money on him skipping out on the bail—who put up his bail anyway? Any one want to bet against me? Not if you’re smart you won’t. That farker is gonna run!

BTW are you getting any CS via the brother or anyone else?
Just curious. Getting interesting!

EB, Now you have officially risen from the dead, I expect you to be able to WALK ON WATER. Oh, and if you dont mind, please turn some water into wine,-the best of course, LOL,
Mama Gem.XXX
You wont need the jet ski, just walk on the water gal.

Ox Drover

ROTFLMAO, JET SKI, WALK on WATER!!!! ROTFLMAO Gem, you are tooooooo much!~

Bends down low in mock humility, Why thank you, Miss Oxy.
Ya gotta laugh, its the best medecine||
Apparently laughing sets offa chain of feel good endorphins and dopamins in the brain. Sure beats cryin||
||–excamation mark, my computer is F—d.Will have to ring jeff, our computer whizz in the morning. Night night all you great peeps|||
Night, Oxy, Luv ya gal,
PS were going to havea GREAT LF party with all the free wine that EB is going to magic up for us LOL||
Not forgetting the loaves and fishes||


one step

yes the faithful calls, He wouldn’t miss a beat at the beginning…with strategic “I love you”calls, and “I can’t wait to see you” “we are meant to be together” calls….It must be just part of the job description of being a sociopath at the beginning of projects. they would have to view each relationship as a “project”…you are an object to be manipulated and exploited and each spath would have their own way of doing that…

maybe they find it a fun challenge to juggle dupes and come close to getting caught…The P used to spend time staring deep into my eyes and proclaiming true love, he would come home every evening, sometimes with gifts…but this was part of his JOB to lull me into the falsest sense of security…so he could THEN proceed to take my money, trawl the internet for another victim as I began to wake up and then DUMP me…he orchestrated the whole scam every step of the way…

they stoop REALLY low, brilliant at it…so low it wouldn’t cross your mind there was anything happening…that’s what’s making it soooo damn hard for me to get over…He groomed me flawlessly to assist in my own debasement….nothing could be worse news..nothing….when I woke up from the nightmare he was gone, with the money!! eeeeh..”STOP THIEF!!!!” people looking at me…what are you talking about, that’s your boyfriend….oh God then to try and explain…they are still looking at ME as if I’m a bit mental…and what’s funny is….I am after it!!!

Frank Lee Speaking

amay61 says: – Have you checked this guy’s criminal record? He has probably done significant time and doesn’t want to do it again.


Well now it is funny you mention that because she never showed me a single photo of her in her 20’s or early 30s or even late teens. I asked a few time. She always told me that she tore them up as she didn’t like them. Now I am wondering if she was locked up. I discovered she has used at least one alias in the past.

Ox Drover

Nite nite, Gem, it is blazing morning here now at 9 a.m. where I am though the LF time stamp above me says 9:52. You are also having a lovely COOL season to our humid and hot one. I wish I could come there in the winter time (our summer) My friend just got back from the mountains of Colorado here and some nights it got below freezing, and was 70s in the day time with a little shower, but really is semi-arid….oh to walk outside again! Soon enough I guess I will be biatching about the cold! LOL

Yes, I had forgotten the loaves and fishes to go with the wine! You are too tooo TOOOOO funny, have a good sleep.

Hi, again Oxy Poxy. I cant sleep, its twelve thirty PM here, and VERY cold. David cant sleep either, his back itches, and Im all aches and pains. Just been rubbing each other with deep heat cream,[sexy, NOT||} thirty yearsa go wed have been hot and heavy , but not now, LOL||This has been and still is the coldest winter in Sydney for sixty seven years, and were not used to it, were spoiled.During the day it warms up, but the nights are about 6 degrees.C.
Oh for summer,were never satisfied|
Lotsa love, gem.XXGlad I made you laugh|


Frank Lee

Oh my goodness! And this is for ALL of us.
An online criminal background check is so easy. Save yourself some mental anguish and get the truth. Do be careful you have the right one though!!



“We were meant to be together”?
Do they actually have a quote book that they share?



Sorry, if I’d read more carefully, I would have realized she’s not a guy.

Ox Drover

Yea, they have the “psychopath’s play book” sort of like a foot ball or basket ball coach’s play book, they just learn them by rote and pull out whatever lie or con is appropriate for whatever situation they are in. Rinse and repeat! Easy!

Frank Lee Speaking

No worries amay – I did not mention the gender. But you got me really thinking now. Doing the background check… I dunno. I have moved on and it would feel to me a bit like going back into the sociopathic matrix if I did that.


In the beginning they follow our rules long enuff to get us hooked, then they make their rules. So we change to conform because we have been brain drained and dont know our rules from their’s. This is called making us crazy, a game they like to play. That’s just sick, they are twisted monsters.

Frank Lee Speaking

Is it just me or does it seems like they are born with this secret knowledge the rest of us know nothing about?

I say this because I used to watch my Soc ex, now and gain, looking at very specific other people of all ages and genders as if she was studying their body language in a way that seemed odd to me – looking back on this now, I think they might of been other sociopaths and it was almost like industiral espionage.

I seem to recall very vividly one time how another woman in a bar kept looking at me and her together in a way I have only experienced in her company, and another female sociopath I was NEARLY involved with, but who was ‘putting it out for me’ in a very advertising kinda of way. But nothing came of that. But one night we were in a bar and again another women was staring at us in the same “analyitcal” manner. I have never experience this with non sociopath women I have dated. Only these two.

My sociopathic ex used say she caught women checking me out all the time. And I replied “you mean like the woman in the airport that night who seemed very interested in us”? She replied” she was looking for another reason”. I never pressed her as to what that reason was – I thought she meant a lesbian thing for her, but it wasn’t. I am thinking not that the sociopath psychic network was in transmission.

So has anyone else while out with you sociopath ex noticed this monitoring of you and you sociopath in such a way that you could not make out why they were looking at a specfic other person, or another person looking at us and the Soc with such strange interest?

The only thing I can compared it to is some Gay friends of mine told me they can walk into any place in the world and their “Gaydar” can instantly suss out who the other gay men in the place are. They say it is like a sixth sense that gay men have to spot each other.

Could sociopaths have cultivated from their childhood a similar ability to spot each other? I am starting to think there is psychic aspect to the socipath the more I think about it. It goes much deeper than body language.

I would really love to hear people’s views on this as I think it could solve a lot of mysteries for me.



Ill have to think about that one. But just today a friend told me that she met her college friend for drinks last night to catch up and take a break from summer school. She noticed a much older man across the bar “staring her down” she at first thought she was imagining it..but she was seated facing the door and he was in that direction so when people entered she would sometimes turn toward door and she said it felt like his eyes were piercing her. As the night went on…sure enough he walked over (nearly double her age ) and he said “I absolutely MUST meet you”…she said I was as pleasant as i could be without being rude..and said im here with my friends but very nice to meet you… he went away for a bit….only to come back later when she was with a larger group and he very loudly exclaimed to the two younger guys standing near her ” I would like you both to leave”…. she felt uncomfortable enough to ask the bartender to intervene….she chalked it up to him being intoxicated… but I said he sounded like a controlling sociopath to me. But yes, there is something about the gaze, the stare down they feel entitled to do – and also may find it actually works on some people who may at first be flattered by such attention.

This doesnt directly answer your question, but Im trying to recall if I ever experienced a situation like the ones you refer to..

Frank Lee Speaking

learning, that is still an interesting story – I am starting to think more and more they can read minds. One thing I noticed on the first date with my ex Soc how SILENT she was. She kept looking at me in a funny kind of way like her head was tilted up slightly and looking down towards me at a slight sideways angle. Noticing my every move rather than listening to what I was saying. It was almost as it she was reading my mind now that I think back on it.

Even more creepy was when we were in Instant Messager and even without the webcam on she could almost predict what I was about to say next. She would then type LOL! GMTA! when we both typed out the same comment – but wow… I am really starting to think these crazies can read our minds. At least have a very highly fearl instinctual insight into us which operates on a level we can barely imagine.


Well…..I hope my weight doesn’t act as a hinderance with my water walking skills……. 🙂

The wine is a GREAT IDEA!!!! I’ll work on that!

I had breakfast with my old painter friend……he really was spooked when I walked out to his car to greet him.
What a FREAK!!!! As One said….a fu**tard!

Do they not think that maybe one day……the peeps he told I had died, just MAY see me alive? And then what…..what does HE look like NOW?
I just don’t understand this motive? WHY? What kind of control is this? Did he portray himself as the ‘grieving’ husband? What kind of attention did this provide him?


I think he’s gonna show up for the preliminary…..Oxy…..
I don’t know why….just my gut. Maybe, maybe not……
I do think that NOW that he knows I KNOW about his charges……and he doesn’t know HOW MUCH i know…..that might offer him the fright, not to run…..
I have ‘found’ him wherever he is……and he knows this… how does he think I woulnd;t tell the state officials where he will be ‘then’…….I think he doubts his abilities to hide now…..
But….time will tell!!!

Frank Lee Speaking

Thinking more on the possibility that sociopaths are psychic – this would give a lot of validation to idea that they follow us through different lifetimes. This would explain how across vast distances they still find us.

The two sociopath women I was involved with, one from from Argentina the other from California. Yet I met one of them in New York and the other in Moscow and I live in Ireland just think of the logistical odds of that happening and yet it did – TWICE – Donna Andersen in the USA met that muppet and he was from Australia.

It seems that distance is no object to meeting these sociopaths? Like the know they have to travel to find us and they do every time. If many ture lovers can believe they have had other lifetimes together and meet under incredible circumsances aginst all the odds, then why not our predators also? Makes sense when you think about it.

OMG! I just recall that on least one occasion my soc ex said that she and I were lovers in other lives and would be again in the future. I had completely fogotten she said that to me more than once during the time we spent together. *SHUDDER*

Frank Lee Speaking

Sorry, gone way off topic here as I think I might of had a revelation about my entire experience seeing it on a whole ne level. My apology.


I think more along the lines that they can hone in on empathetic souls…by watching them…looking at body language … and things they do and say in general…they look for/are drawn to opposites of them…they feed off , survive off of people who arent like them…

Interesting how she said “lovers in other lives” instead of friends ! ha

Whatever it is they all sing the same song and do the same dance– from country to country 🙂


They size us up in 10 minutes or less. Who’s nice, who isn’t nice. Who will give them a hard time, who won’t. If you take the time to talk with them … they just hooked their fish. How many more to go that night? That week?

The reason you meet them all over the globe is easy … they skip from state to state, country to country because they are conning people out of what they have (money, homes, stocks, bonds, cars, etc.). I’d move too if I just took you.


Ox Drover

Predators follow the prey. Just as lions follow the migrating herds. Just as a lion can watch a herd of 1000 antelope and pick out the ONE that is slightly limping with only a glance, the one that will be the easiest to take down so can a psychopath.

In that movie “I, psychopath” how many of us could catch the VICTIM out of the women that walked by? I could pick her out, and I wasn’t even sure WHY but it was immediate. I just KNEW which one. The announcer went on to say it how she swung her arms out of sync with her footsteps, but I didn’t know WHY I just knew she was IT. I think they do too. It may almost be instinctive with them.

Or when you see someone and you don’t know why but they kind of give you the willies? Apparently there were some studies done about professionals having a gut feeling when interviewing people who were Ps, a PHYSICAL reaction to them.

Sometimes I do and sometimes I don’t. I know several Ps I have NOT felt that way until they stabbed me in the back….then I knew, so maybe OUR problem is that we DON’T pick up on the predator-vibe, and they DO pick up on the victim-vibe we give off.

I think though that we can hone our skills if we work at it. I know one thing, “if a cat jumps on a HOT STOVE, it will give up jumping on COLD ONES TOO!”

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