Aren’t sociopaths supposed to be rule-breakers? Isn’t this a main indicator of their sociopathy? If so, then what’s up with sociopaths when they’re following, not breaking, the rules?
Hmm. This appears to be confusing, but then again, is it really?
Perhaps it’s oversimplistic to see sociopaths as incapable of following rules? In the grand scheme of things, I think it’s fair to say that sociopaths will break rules; they will violate boundaries; they will hurt and violate others with a startling—indeed sociopathic—lack of accountability and conscience.
The sociopath, I think we can say reasonably, will inevitably transgress others, and he will transgress them heartlessly.
However, when we compress the grand scheme of things into something less grand—for instance, day to day, week to week, month to month, even for longer periods—things may be different. When we break down time into shorter periods, we discover that sociopaths, much like many individuals gripped by compulsive, addictive tendencies, often possess the capacity, at least temporarily, to suppress their inclinations—in the sociopath’s case, his inclination to violate and exploit.
Otherwise, how would the sociopath manage, as often as he does, to operate so effectively undetected, or under-detected? In other words, if sociopaths couldn’t, and didn’t, follow rules; indeed, follow many rules—social rules, legal rules, interpersonal rules, employment rules—then there could be no such thing as the sociopath’s “mask?”
Because the sociopath’s mask, ironically, is dependent on, supported by, his capacity to follow rules.
The sociopath’s mask, in a certain sense, is precisely this—the social, legal and interpersonal conventions and rules he follows between, or in simultaneity with, his violating, exploitive behaviors.
His mask is his capacity to follow enough rules, enough of the time, to “blend in,” to seem normal and well-adjusted, to cast himself as among the least likely suspects to be perpetrating the transgressions he perpetrates while operating behind the mask.
And so there is a certain irony here. Yes, the sociopath, in the greater scheme of things, is a rule-breaker, a transgressor with a seriously defective conscience. And yet, at least in many cases, in the smaller scheme of things, he is a good enough rule follower to abet the construction of the very mask behind which he unconscionably violates, or surely will unconscionably violate, his victim(s).
(This article is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is strictly for convenience’s sake, and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Getting it, Evolution is such a slow process that it would take eons for the psychpathic predators to evolve into a separate species, sort of like a donkey and a horse, or a zebra etc. They are “kind of close” and can even interbreed but there are problems with the number of chromosomes between horses and donkeys so they produce the sterile mule, or the hinny which is also sterile.
Some kinds of snakes or other reptiles will eat their own species, Cobras are one species that comes to mind. There are other species that prey on their own kind. Male Cats and even lions will kill cubs/kittens belonging to another male so that the female will come back into heat quicker and he can rebreed her. He will generally not kill his own kittens or cubs though. How do they know which are which? I’m not sure but some how they do seem to know.
The point I’m trying to make here is that psychopath, though they prey on (and sometimes kill) other humans, have been with us for at least since the first part o f the Bible was written over 4,000 years ago as at least one is described there, history, and Greek and Roman writings, as well as Egyptian also tell of psychopaths who “prey” on others either as rulers, robbers, or other criminals.
Look at the story of the town of Sodom which seems to have been made up of a group of psychopaths wanting to attack to men who were guests and strangers in Lot’s house. There are other stories of roaming groups of gangs in other towns that did the same thing. One of one man whose concubine was killed by a roaming gang, and her death ended up causing the nation to go to war over it.
Plus, there are some cultures which are or were so violent that WE would consider the entire culture “psychopathic” and there are people who consider ME psychopathic because I will kill and eat meat. So there is some cultural bias in all of this as well.
I do think especially in a situation where RESOURCES are limited the psychopath will PROSPER because he will feel no problem with taking the food out of your mouth, or pushing you out of the life boat to drown, or killing you to eat your body to survive, so I think they will always be with us, but I don’t really think they will diverge into a separate species….if they did, who would they prey on? Right now, their appearance is well cammo’d and they can pretend to be “wholly human” even if they are not quite there.
We just have to learn to distinguish them by how they act, the same way we can sort of know if a dog is the type to bite or not.
Eternal chameleons, they breed like rabbits. Their offspring is likely to have similar attributes. The society, with its push toward individualism, toward INDEPENDENCE (and not INTER-dependence) and its value in achievement in all costs is contributing to cruelty and drop in price of human life. You are right, Oxy, this has been going on since the dawn of times. But there are fewer and fewer righteous “fools”. We ourselves are seeking to Evolve, hoping to recognize Ps before they “attack”. So, is it possible that we may make a mistake or two and deny helping hand to someone who is in true need and true pain?
A woman walked up to me the other day and cried (it must be written on my forehead) that she is escaping an abusive boyfriend and needs gas money. As I shared $3.00 (all I had in my wallet), the woman proceeded to tell me that she was pregnant and had not eaten. I took her into a food market and bought her food and got more cash to share with her. She was very thankful and kept asking me for my phone number or address, so she can tell me that she MADE it and mail money to me. I declined and asked her to “pay it forward”. I called my friend and told her that THANK GOD I am still able to trust and take things at a face value. I was so happy, driving to another store … only to find out that when I parked, she’d followed me there with same request – thanking me and hoping for my address. I don’t know what it was. PTSD got a hold of me then, so I must have brushed her off then. Survival depends on both, caution and altruism. Ps are capable of both, but use them as they see fit to “win” and “control”. Hope it makes sense.
Dear Getting it,
Years ago when I was a young mother I was the church secretary a couple of days a week (I could take my kiddies to work with me) and we used to have people come through this small town of 3500 and ask for help, gas money and food, diapers and so on.
Well, we found out that after they attended our church, they would go to the next one down the block and so on, so apparently this is what your woman was doing….so the churches of the little town got together to stop people from ripping off every church in the little town.
Any time someone would come to any of the churches, the person in charge would take them to a place to eat and feed them. Then go with them to the local gasoline place and fill their tank. Then send them on their way. (or buy diapers or baby formula bvut NO sodas or cash)
We had several families who came through and came to our church then went down to the next one and got the same thing, they had trouble explaining how more gas wouldn’t fit in their cars or why they were having problems eating all their food.
There was one persistent guy still hoping for cash that he went to 3 churches before he figured that the town churches were UNITED. NO CASH! LOL
Have you ever driven by those people on the corners with signs that say “Vet will work for food” Those people are referred to in the grifting trade as “working the signs.” Actually, they do quite well with donations with the signs generally.
Little Rock has new orange boxes out and requests that people do not give money directly to pan handlers but to give it to the boxes which will be used to help homeless people in the city and to fund shelters.
I also still want to “help” people and to share my many blessings with others, but I am also leery of getting take for a ride, so I do my monetary giving to places I KNOW it will go to a good use.
The woman wanting your name and address is SPOOKY and I am glad that you didn’t give it to her. I can bet the farm if you had she would have shown up on your doorstep.
Next time a person says they are fleeing an abusive situation, and you want to Help, I suggest that you call the DV shelter and see if there is someone there who will come pick the person up. They won’t give you directions anyway, and don’t ever let a stranger in your car unless they are BLEEEDING and you see an attacker after them!
I wish we didn’t have to be so cautious, but CAUTION finally saved my life and I happen to think it’s a pretty good thing to be cautious.
I trust that woman needed help.
And – I trust that I did what I would have preferred done to me / for me if I were in need. Also – I took Strangers OUT of DV and gave them home before. And – they were Honest, grateful individuals who needed to be away from a shelter Mill. NO offense to all the social systems. This is my point exactly: we rely on Institutions to help because so often we can no longer Trust. And humanity suffers as a result. Your response was exactly speaking to my point. We are evolving and not for the better. In ideal situation, humans would all help one another with no fear. Ps are multiplying and society is making up rules which are often cold and multiply more Ps.
I once got lost with two babies in downtown during a holiday. And I did not look homeless, but I was crying, my kids were screaming and I was disoriented, having forgotten where I’d parked my car. Everyone refused to help me. Strangers on the street would bulk, security guards would not put me into their cars for “liability reasons” and at least one police cop said he has no authority to help me because no crime was committed.
I called relatives, but I was far away and they could not find me because I was lost. In the middle of a busy downtown, not – such a good neighborhood, with two crying babies. Cold, tired from walking for hours; it was 11PM already, when I threw myself at a Police car and said I refused to move and let them pass until they helped me. They did not book me and reluctantly took me to where help was available. My back hurt from carrying my child, my other child was horrified and I was hysterical by then.
IT’s a P world we now live in. and – it is sad
Dear Getting it,
Sugar I am the world’s worst at bringing home strays—dogs, cats and people. I took in a woman last year who presented herself as a victim of DV and she was living in a TINY RV “motor home” and I took her in, she turned out to be a psychopath posing as a victim. I finally figured out what she was up to and told her she had to leave here. I have helped others, Years ago I drove my truck and trailer 800 miles to help a preg woman and her toddler get her stuff out of storage and the church I went to rented her an apartment so she could get away from the “brute” she was married to.
The whole thing was a con to get her stuff transported free and the apartment…we weren’t gone from moving her in 10 minutes when he showed up. So yea, I’ve been conned. I know the system is not all that great either, but I am more CAUTIOUS about people who are “down on their luck.” No one will ever break me from wanting to help, because people have helped ME when I was in need, and I want to pay it forward….that’s why I’m still here at LF. I’m just a bit CAUTIOUS and don’t take everyone’s word for Gospel.
I wasn’t criticizing you in any way for how you handled it. Those cops were jerks for being that way to you. I’m glad to say I’ve never had cops treat me like that. I’d have probably punched the one that said “no crime” and said, NOW ARREST ME FOR ASSAULT ON AN OFFICER! LOL
Hi all. This topic is exactly what I needed.
My stbx husband has redeemed himself. He literally can not remember doing any of the cruel mindfucking (can I say that word on this site?). And he is agast that I would accuse him of such a thing. He says my cruelty is mindnumbing.
He has a wonderful girlfriend. And she really is. Wonderful. (except for that part about believing that a married man is a worthy pursuit. HOws come you all who cry about your married boyfriends don’t get that MARRIED means a boundry, and boundries are protective?!! another time/another subject ) She is a great mom, has a great highpaying job, is very community oriented, volunteers, her hobby is dancing (where my husband found her, in dance class), she’s cute, kept herself well, is intelligent. She’s not mean to me, or bitchy or gossipy like some of the other women my husband has cheated with. If it was a different situation, I’d introduce her to a great single guy.
So why is my husband with her? Simple. She is rebuilding his image which has been tarnished. All he needed was a good woman, and the reason he failed with me, was my shortcomings. A good woman makes the man.
Really, sarcasm aside, he really seems like such a nice guy now. Can it be me that was his trigger to go into a dark place where vindictiveness and contempt held free reign? I’ve heard of situations where two people bring out the worst in each other. But this included the length of bad times. He killed cows, family dogs, cats (i say murdered bc he said he did it to teach them not to make him mad and I argued they didn’t KNOW/they were only animals, but he insisted oh yes, they knew.) He wasn’t nice to the women he cheated on me with either (not that I cared. I was glad when they were discarded. They ALL thought he was the love of their life. They all used that same term so I think he must have planted that idea.)
I just want to know. has anyone found that maybe it was the marriage that pushed this person to behave for a length of time and that when the divorce was complete, they went back to being men of principle and conscience? (which was the man I thought I was marrying) And that they believe in their redeemed persona so completely that they have amnesia about their behaviors and attitudes during that bad time?
I am sincere in asking b/c I started to do things, bad things too, that I had never done. It was one of the reasons for leaving (like I needed more?!). I didn’t like who I ws turning into: paranoid, suspicious, self isolating (I was so ashamed, didn’t want to face people judging me.) overreacting, blaming, starting cutting myself (yeah how creepy was that, but I felt numb and cutting made me feel like I existed. She bleeds therefore she am! It didn’t even hurt. Yes nutty logic. Not happening since I left. But it took two years for the physical weight of depression to stop. And I still haven’t figured it all out.
So if I was “crazy” for a while, and it was not my natural state. Then, it is possible the same happened to him and somehow, something about me triggered it? If anyone can shine some light on this, I thank you.
Frank Lee, regarding Spath being afraid of breaking the law. I can say my husband feared that. I asked him once, why he didn’t kill me, (it was a calm conversation, really!). And he answered that he didn’t want to go to jail, to be in prison. NOT because it was wrong or absurb to even ask such a thing. But only that he wanted to avoid prison. Thus, there some rules he follows all the time, but like killing the animals, when he knew there were no consequences, he felt entitled to kill. No I’m wrong. It was more than that. He felt it moral and appropriate under those circumstances.
Dear KatyDid,
Welcome sugar, NO! You are not a psychopath, and he NEVER WAS A WONDERFUL GOOD MAN, he just was a wolf in sheep’s clothing and YOU did NOT cause him to cheat, to lie to SHOW what he really was and IS….nothing but a heartless cruel FAKE human being.
I think many of us (victims) have been driven to the point that we say and do things we would never have done in the past, just because we have been so wounded.
Let me tell you a story, if you had a wonderful doggie, and the doggie got hit by a car and you ran to rescue it and it BIT you. Would you be mad at it? OF COURSE NOT, because the dog was hurt, in pain and scared. THAT is why it lashed out. So you would not be angry or mad or blame that dog.
NOW let’s say you have ANOTHER dog and every time you go to feed it and pet it it BITES YOU, it sneaks up behind your kids and bites them. You have been good to that dog and it has not been abused, but are you not going to get rid of that dog? Of course you would.
Now, I am saying that YOU are the little dog hit by the car and your husband is the bad aggressive biting dog.
I think it was Mark Twain that said “the difference between a man and a dog is that if you take in a starving dog and feed it it will NOT bite you.”
YOU NEED TO HEAL. Your husband has mined f&%ked you and he has raped your soul. I am glad that you are here at LF, and I hope you will stay around and read and learn. KNOWLEDGE is power. Learning starts off about them but ends about ourselves.
Do not hurt yourself, and the answer to your question is NO THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT YOU THAT CAUSED HIM TO BE WHAT HE IS. HE JUST IS. He can mask it to others for a while, but YOU have SEEN BEHIND the mask. ((((Hugs))))) and God bless.
KatyDid – no. You’re second-guessing yourself about what caused the ex to be spath. He still IS spath, but he has found new and creative methods to operate more effectively. His new wife will experience the same things that you did, and probably in a worse way.
You’re just starting out on your healing path – as you continue moving foward, you’ll begin to recognize the spath for what it is. BELIEVE ME….I did the same thing! “Was it really THAT bad when I was with him?” Oh, yes, my dear heart, it WAS that bad and I recalled many incidents along my healing path that I had deliberately blocked out of my mind. Like the time that he refused to “allow” me to seek medical treatment for an STD that HE GAVE ME because he said that the doctor (who was female) was trying to “cause problems” between us. Now, what interest would a military GYN doctor have in starting something between people that she had never met and will likely never see, again, in her career? So, I got the treatment on the sly……..behind his back……..deception.
You are experiencing a very, very NORMAL step in the healing process. But, keep in mind that what is “normal” can quickly develop into an abnormal issue. Sit down when it’s quiet and take out a tablet and a pen – use paper and pen/pencil and NOT the computer because this is a physical and emotional exercise. Column A will contain numbered attributes that the ex had while you were still married to him. Column B will contain numbered negatives. Things like honesty, integrity, goal-oriented, witholding, etc….be brutally honest and you’ll get past this little pothole on your healing path.
OxD has it spot-on…….he’s a bad dawg and better left alone.
Brightest blessings!