UPDATED FOR 2021. Psychopaths tend to dominate conversation. Many of us know this first hand, but the reasons why psychopaths talk so much have been documented in a scientific paper published by the Public Library of Science, PLOS.org.
Researchers brought together same-sex college students in groups of three people. None of them knew each other. The students were asked to engage in small talk. The conversations were videotaped, and researchers later analyzed who did all the talking.
It turned out that study participants with higher scores in primary psychopathy, as measured by the Levenson Self-Report Psychopathy Scale (LSRP), spoke more words and controlled the conversation more than people with lower scores.
No other traits, such as physical strength, facial attractiveness, or socioeconomic status, were linked to conversation dominance.
The scientific paper
The paper, Subclinical primary psychopathy, but not physical formidability or attractiveness, predicts conversational dominance in a zero-acquaintance situation, was written by Joseph H. Manson, Matthew M. Gervais, Daniel M. T. Fessler, and Michelle Kline.
The researchers wanted to find out what traits caused people to dominate conversation among strangers. They analyzed:
- Physical formidability, meaning a person’s size and strength
- Primary and secondary psychopathy, as indicated by the self-report test
- Physical attractiveness
- Socioeconomic status
- Social status, as judged by clothing, hairstyle,
- Perceived prestige of academic major
- College class level
Primary and secondary psychopathy refers to the two “factors” of the disorder.
Primary psychopathy is related to interpersonal and affective aspects of the personality, such as manipulativeness and lack of empathy. Secondary psychopathy is related to lifestyle and antisocial aspects, such as impulsivity and criminal behavior.
When it came to dominating conversation, the only trait that mattered was primary psychopathy. Both men and women who scored high in psychopathy dominated the conversations. The men also used fewer emotional words.
Primary psychopathy was associated with using a lot of words, but secondary psychopathy was associated with using fewer words.
Why psychopaths talk so much
The researchers speculated that psychopaths used their glib and charming verbal skills to gather social capital. Or, they were looking for ammunition. The researchers wrote:
One alternative is that individuals high in primary psychopathy specifically leverage opportunities to assess and manipulate new acquaintances by controlling conversations and gleaning useful information about them, that is, they use conversation as a means for exploitation.
The conclusion of the study was that psychopaths talk a lot, with the objective being to extract information from others that they may be able to use for exploitation.
Read the study:
Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.
Lovefraud initially published this article on December 22, 2014.
The six-month relationship: He lied, I paid
In my experience, sociopaths also tend to dominate conversations by being “the life of the party” and making weird but thought-provoking declarations. I.e., my ex P publically declared that he thought religion was merely a “crutch” for weak human beings rather than a universal moral teaching. They also tend to not allow differing opinions.
In my world, referring to religion as a “crutch” is not at all weird but I agree that personality disordered people are intolerant of differing views, which they seem to regard as a personal affront.
Flicka,
I’m an atheist and personally do believe that organized religion can be a crutch, among other things. That does not make me weird, amoral, or a psychopath. And it most definitely is NOT a universal moral teaching.
That being said, I agree with everything else in your comment!
My intention was not to comment on whether or not I, then or now, agreed nor disagreed with my “ex’s” statement; it was intended only to serve as an example of how psychopaths dominate public conversations. I personally could argue both sides of the topic but would do so only in small, intimate circles with people I know. If you study all religions. the one common basis for all of them seems to fulfill man’s universal need for answers to what he cannot explain and as a needed moral “code” of behavior.
It is a common belief among believers that morality comes from religion and that atheists, therefor, cannot be moral. I don’t mean to imply that you necessarily hold that misconception, but since the issue has been raised, I would like to make the point that it is utter nonsense.
The non religious can be equally moral; that’s not in dispute. Happy holidays to all.
Living a moral life simply means conforming to the rules of right conduct. Clearly anyone can live a moral life regardless of their religious beliefs…most religions believe that there are universal, God given, rules of conduct and morality is based on adherence to those standards…but we as a species are capable of self defining right and wrong and I believe most atheist believe the religious are doing this even if they don’t acknowledge it.
The path in my life had religion shoved down his throat. It was so obvious, I once asked him if he had been a divinity student. He used words that were provincial and spiritual. I did enough research to know he was from a zealous religious background. I don’t care how or whether people believe in God. Have my own opinions on that. But I do not like peddlers of religion or zealots of any type, don’t trust them and do think they have serious issues that could use attention. This is just my belief. This individual was as immoral and sick as they come and I think suffering from a huge amount of religious guilt that exacerbated his socio-pathologic behaviors.
Flicka,
I think their lack of tolerance for other opinions is just part of their sickness – you must agree that they are right, superior, etc…and it’s very common form them to attack you if you disagree with them in front of others…they must keep their flock in line so they attack the heretic. They will label you and attempt to isolate you…they will label you with the very things they themselves use…”she’s so close minded!” “She’s just so intolerant of other points of view.” Of course, the real attack on you will begin once you are gone – when he or she can use their charm, wit, etc to start destroying your character among your friends. My favorite psychopath (and unfortunately, his ex hasn’t figured out he is a psychopath) loves to met people one on one just to straighten things out…to let them know the side of his ex people never saw…
BTW, when people want to tell you about the side of a person you never see, be very skeptical…just sayin’
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good morning!
Steve
Aha, religion…I see your point about public declarations, but I have to say I’m not entirely convinced that empathy, which Is the basis for true morality can be taught. Meaning how much of a role of in instilling morality does religion truly play?
On the other hand, I am convinced religion is largely made for and by spaths. It has all the bling of invisible power and specialness that attracts spaths as well as throngs of devoted followers for “supply”. Most founders of religions and most sects definitely had a lot of spath features. Also, if you already know stealing, killing etc etc is wrong, you don’t need to create a myth around why one shouldn’t do it (eternal reward or eternal suffering I.e. “It’s all about me”.
This has been my experience. My s-path dominated every conversation and was always the center of attention. Everywhere we went, everyone waited for him to walk in and hold court. He always had a billion funny stories and entertaining gossip. He “knew” stuff about stuff. He was good at showing what a great upstanding guy he was. He knew how to market himself in the very best way. He even attained rank of police chief on his personality (definitely not on his skills). He can get any job he goes after, but he never holds them for long. He was kicked off the force for sexual impropriety. When people seem to figure him out, he just moves on. He has moved over 2 dozen times in the past 15 years. I was #7 on his list of females to use/leech off. But boy can he talk a good game…..
My personal experience involved a man who spoke so eloquently and intelligently that his friends, associate’s, family,etc… truly believed that he was the perfect Christian man. Little did they know that he was using social networks to contact me as various aliases and sending graphic sexual messages to me, along with photos of his genitals. I immediately forwarded the content to the church where he was a worship leader and they were shocked to know that this man was living a double life that was completely deceitful. Two weeks ago they removed him from the position. Sociopaths have a talent for speaking, it’s the initial impression they make with everyone and once that trust is gained, you soon become a victim.
Well done, singmodel! You are courageous.
Singmodel:
How well I can relate. I once worked with a ‘Born Again Christian’ who seemed to be just that….until she noted that the guys on the job were paying attention to me and making comments when I was out on the production floor. Apparently, they had never done that with her, and that is what really ticked her off. Suddenly, overnight, Little Miss Born Again became more attractive…clothing, hair, jewelry…whatever it took. I was nice to her but felt sad about the whole situation.
She got the attention she wanted, but when she flaunted herself in front of my husband (who worked there) I was more than a bit ‘miffed’. But I kept my cool and was kind to her. She kept it up, repeatedly, but I was mature enough and ‘smart’ enough to tell her in private, ‘My husband said how beautiful you are, young lady’, and her mouth popped open and she looked aghast. She could not believe how I kept my cool.
I was let go from the position due to lack of work (I was a temp) and she gloated about that. I remember going into her church and plotting a way to get the message to the priest that she was not being at all Christian outside of her congregation. I wrote a note on a piece of paper, pretending to be her, asking for help because she was a ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’. I also went to church wearing a blonde wig just to sit near her and her husband! I know that was totally crazy, but I was so angry at her. She also probably stole a gorgeous heirloom pin off of my coat (she had admitted to a history of shoplifting, and she was the only one with access to the closet where our staff kept their coats).
My idea at the church was to snatch her purse and exchange tit for tat. I am glad I did not do it. I was a lot older than her, and she apparently had been brought up to be quite sheltered.
She wanted to contact me, according to my husband, and he asked if I would allow for that. I never answered him, but wish that I had. Maybe someday, God willing, we will get together. I would like it and we both need it…I think coming together after such an ordeal could be good for both of us.
You at least had concrete evidence to send to your church/pastor. I was struggling with how to get the message to the pastor at this girl’s church…maybe he got the note, which I left in the confessional booth. Maybe he read it out loud during Mass, hoping the perpetrator would present herself.
She did a disservice to her husband, as well….I heard they had a big fight about her flaunting herself in front of other men. Well, is that a Christian thing to do? But also…she was probably a bit messed up. She had given me a Bible, and I found a passage in it that I copied and mailed to her. It basically stated, “Love is not jealous. It does not flaunt or parade itself…” Tom said she was infuriated with me, so she probably prayed about it.
These so-called Born Agains, many of them, use religion as a front. It is very sad.
The personality disordered can effectively use religion as a front to gain trust and to conceal their greedy, malicious, and vengeful motives. (BTK, Bind-Torture-Kill serial killer Dennis Rader, comes to mind. He was a prominent figure in his church community. http://wp.me/p1YH7L-4i And not to be forgotten, through the ages predatory pedophiles have used a sanctimonious front to secure impunity and a rich supply of prey.) Affinity groups of all kinds attract the exploitive and power craving personality types because of the automatic trust they can expect from “like-minded.” I know a vocal atheist sociopath who pretends high morals, publicly criticizes and expresses indignation over the misbehaviors of others, demands accountability, etc. while covertly engaging in moral treachery. Anyone who doesn’t practice what they preach is a hypocrite—and possibly also a sociopath.
The pulpit attracts narcissists and sociopaths just as other positions of leadership and authority. My former pastor is in one of those buckets or at least close by”I don’t have the letters at the end of my name to actually diagnose him but his behaviors are consistent with both”
This rings so true for me! Mine was a radio talk show host who made his living (a very good living) running his mouth for four hours a day. He could sell the proverbial ice cubes to Eskimos and charm the pants off any woman despite being morbidly obese and having a “face made for radio.” Everyone wanted to be in the orbit of this incredibly witty, fun guy who told great jokes … even though in retrospect, many of those jokes were downright cruel. In fact, his downfall was the day he spent most of one show making fun of a severely burned woman his producer/sidekick had seen. He, the sidekick and the station all got their butts sued over that one, and his ratings dropped like a stone.
I was in a long-term relationship when I met him, but his words had me so convinced that I’d picked wrong all those years ago and He Was The One that I was ready to leave that relationship. That’s when the love-bombing stopped and I was devastated. He went from using his words to woo me to using them to make me a public laughingstock on his show.
Nobody knows where he is now. He dropped off the face of the earth when the lawsuit went to court (the case was settled in the woman’s favor). I’d love to know what he’s doing now … just to reassure myself that karma is having its way with him.
Don’t waste your time “wondering”; be glad he’s out of your life!
hi Donna-
My ex has been using his words for the past six months to try and bring me back in his
game- i am not interested in it any more. Twelve years later and i can say that i now see him
for who he is. I had lunch with his brother who warned me . He did not want me to be used any
more. I have decided to listen to him. Your article is right on- they use words to get information
to exploit you with . Best medicine is silence its deadly.
The timing of this is unreal. I was just thinking yesterday about the psychopath in my life (from childhood to age 20). She spent a LOT of time talking, mostly about me to other people. But what really galled me was that she thought she knew EVERYTHING about me (and other people) and made quick snap judgements. She did a lot of ‘defining’ of my personality, character, intelligence…I abhored it when she sent me a ‘note’ in high school that I was bound to become a ‘housewife’….I am anything but. I may enjoy domesticity, but don’t we all? In my 20s, I was a roving adventurer, taking on things outdoors that were challenging and exciting. I lived with a great adventurer who got me canoeing and traipsing all over North America.
I have had a great friend for 30 years now, and we have had our best conversations when doing laundry and drinking wine. But we are not anybody’s idea of ‘domestic engineers’.
A lot of guys like doing laundry. And we all love the kitchen, right? That is the favorite room in the house.
There are so many more facets to me than a domestic side. Of course, said psychopath was extremely jealous of me and spent a lot of time defining me….even stopping strangers in the street to say, ‘Let me tell you about my friend….’ and proceed, without blinking an eye, what she thought I was. Yeah, right. Like she knew? NO WAY
It would not surprise me that she is still talking, talking, defining and defining me…not at all. The thing about these people is that IT controls them. They have no control over themselves, and that should be our ‘saving grace’. We are strong, even when we do not appear to be, whereas they are weak. They just happen to be very skilled at convincing others.
The psychopath I knew was a motor-mouth. He repeated everything he said or contradicted himself from one minute to the next. He didn’t even hear me talking and I would deliberately talk at the same time. He never noticed we were both talking. Noone listening to the other one. Some times I was so bored I’d put the phone down, make a cup of tea, do some ironing, go to the toilet….and pick up the phone again and he was still talking and hadn’t noticed I wasn’t there.
At night he’d call and I’d fall asleep with the phone to my ear. Usually I would wake up 2 hours later and he was still talking.
None of this is exaggerated.
hi Bally, that’s how my ex was too.
It was so annoying to have to work to get him to listen to me, and on top of that he never, that’s right, NEVER let me finish a whole damn sentence without interrupting me. I thought it was my imagination, but after paying close attention, it was true. I would ask him repeatedly not to interrupt me this time, and he would then deny interrupting me, in the middle of interrupting me asking him not to!! …so crazy.
He didn’t have a response to any thing I had to say, he would just interrupt me with comments such as: *** “I have no idea what you are talking about” “I’m surprised someone who claims to be so smart would think she could understand what she is even talking about” “You don’t get it” “I can’t believe that I have such a stupid girlfriend who always wants to focus on the negative” (he accused me of being negative even when what I was saying wasn’t negative in the least) “Everyone else I know can understand what I am talking about except you, the girl who is supposed to have some intelligence” — well, you get the picture.
LOL, please know that through all of the crap, he didn’t stop telling me that I was “the Best” “why don’t I just ‘know’ how much he loves me” “why don’t I just trust him”. “why did I always think he was hiding something”……..
He would ignore the only other voice (mine) in the room; in the car; at the river…you name it. I would repeat myself 99% of the time, and finally have to ask him if he heard what I just said. He would berate me for always repeating myself. sicko. I knew he didn’t hear me, obviously, so sometimes I would ask him if he heard me with my own twist on it, from shear annoyance of being ignored, such as: “I am so glad that you agree with what I was talking about.” BAMM!! Suddenly I would have his attention! What?! He would never admit to agreeing with anything I would ever have to say. Heaven forbid, and he would then start an argument about how wrong it is for me to assume something without getting clarification from him first. Most of his ramblings lasted a minimum of 2 hours. He would keep me up late until I was going to work with 2 or 3 hours of sleep most days, and then he would continue with the bitching and complaining and put downs the first thing the next morning before I would go to work. His specialty-send me to work wondering what he is going to do since telling me how much I sucked had to have made me nervous. While I was at work is when all of his female friends and friendly ex’s would stop by his house to visit. In four and half years, only once did one of them come over while I was there to show him pics of her new boyfriend and hers camping trip, and it was during the last few weeks I was with him.
He would talk talk talk, for hours and hours in an effort to distract from any real life topic of importance or even of simple interest, but he intertwined his nonsense with emotionally abusive little comments disguised as his special ‘teaching moments’. He would say “I just had to work that in, because it goes with my story, and I know you won’t understand or really get it, but I thought I would tell you anyway”. Wait-I forgot to mention that I didn’t just sit there and take all of his crap quietly. I “sassed back” according to him. I will never give up my “Sasser Backness” if I am being picked on, not even for him.
One extreme example of me dealing with his talk talk talk and more nonstop talking of many that sticks out for me: I apparently knocked on his front door “too loud” one day, when I stopped at his house while I was on my lunch hour. He opened the door and came out onto the porch, shut the door, and he sternly questioned me as to why I felt I had to knock the same way his other friend does? He then took my keys out of my hand and proceeded to show me, with a sarcastic look on his face, how to tap-tap-tap with a single key instead of using my hand. Crap, once again going over to his house on my lunch break was going to end up with him finding some stupid thing to complain about or to try to put me down about, and/or to say humiliating things to me in front of the friends that were there . But seriously? The way I knock is a problem now too? I didn’t knock any differently than I had any other time, so I sarcastically asked him to show me how I should knock in a way that he would know it’s me, such as a “code” knock, since my knocking is suddenly a problem. He glared at me and said we would talk about it later. Later that night, from 10pm until 2:15am, I ended up getting a four hour lecture, while we sat in my car in front of his house, about how wrong it is to knock so hard on the door because, among all the other reasons he gave me that night, “all the neighbors would be able to hear that someone is knocking on HIS door”! What he didn’t have an explanation for when I challenged him on his nonsense was, why do I routinely have to knock and wait, and knock and wait, and knock and wait for him to come to the door only to hear him tell me that he didn’t hear me knocking before, and why this particular day was any different than any other day of knocking if it is worth him going on and on about it for four effing hours!?! I was accused of “not getting it”. I ended up having a really hard time getting him out of my car that night come to think of it. But, anyway now you see, he made it so I would remain having to stand there on his porch, like an idiot, repeatedly knocking on his front door so that eventually, he would hear it, but at the same time, have to watch out for just how loud he might perceive normal knocking to be on any given day. I really didn’t try to knock any harder or lighter after that,I just knocked the same as I always had, but the “mental pre-thinking” about whether he was going to say anything about how I knocked did become an annoying thing for me. He used the “knocking thing” as bullets during an argument, among other like bullets, in his inane bag of bullshit tricks. I’m going to add that kind of “pre-thinking” of what his mood or reactions might be to the growing list of reasons I am not going to allow him to be around me anymore. Hmmmmm, that list is using up a lot of paper.
He wasn’t all about finding ways to belittle just me. He talked poorly about all of his so called friends too, behind their backs when they would leave the room or for hours and hours when we were alone in order to work himself up into his black hole mood that he seemed to relish being in.
I heard the wildest things come out of his mouth that made no moral sense, no logical sense, no common sense, no healthy relationship sense, no familial sense, no positive sense, no practical sense.
After every activity whether it be a meal or a shopping trip, or even mowing the lawn… his come back was “I should have or should not have done that that way” and now we have to hear a couple hours worth of all the possible alternatives that he could have chosen instead of what he had just done. Nothing satisfied him. There was always a “should have”.
So finally, the reason for me posting today: YES, PYCHOPATHS TALK SO MUCH!!
We know that they do it to gain info to use against us.
They do it to keep us jumping through muliple topic, bullshit hoops to keep us confused. He does it to try and make us look crazy or stupid. How could we have any logical responses to his ramblings? We can’t. Of course I am going to sound stupid trying to come up with something smart to say regarding something stupid and nonsensical that he went on and on about.
I believe they talk and talk to self soothe themselves, like a a baby sucking on a pacifier. Maybe to help calm them from their incomplete trains of thought. Who knows. The first time I was alone with him, we went fishing at night. He was standing over there, about 15 feet away from me, having a hushed conversation with himself. I am not sure what to think about that night any more now than I was at the time, by the way. To the last day with him, he never stopped talking in a tone that was quiet enough for me not to be able to hear what he was saying, but loud enough for me to hear he was saying something, but he made quite sure that I heard some of his key words that would push my buttons in some way though, which would make me ask what he said, and he would then go into all the reasons why he can’t talk to me about it-***see above.
In the end, he still said that I never listened to a word he said!! What?! LOL, He was doing all the talking!!! How in the hell could I have NOT listened to what he was saying?!? It was what he said and the manner in which he said them that I started to question him about his actions and the things that he said being two totally different things. In fact, he was quite hipocritical and didn’t like my being able to so easily point out just how hipocritical he really is. i.e. He can have female friends who only come around when I’m not there, but I can not have a male friend because that ain’t right….(don’t ask him why it’s not right…..that took 6 hours of his rambling only for me to be able to make my original point again- that he is hipocritical) He hated that.
He rambles about bullshit. If you really listen to what they are saying and you don’t like it or you don’t respond in the way he wants you to, its “YOU’LL BE SORRY” time. He wants you to stop questioning him, and without saying it, he is trying to threaten us into submission. In other words he is really saying: “don’t criticize me in any way” “don’t disagree with me in any way” “don’t have your own opinion about what I say” “I am the only one who really knows what’s going on, so don’t worry that you don’t know” “I am not going to tell you what I really mean, so stop asking before I get angry”……
I have been 21 days no contact.
No one has interrupted me in 21 days.
No one has talked my ear off for 4 hours.
No one has insulted me in 21 days.
No one has manipulated or changed any of my plans.
No one has kept me up until 2 am except myself.
No one has taken something I said and twisted it into something to fight about.
21 days and counting……..
I guess the topic of disordered people talking a lot has given me a lot to reflect on, because it is what I experienced with him. I can’t repeat most of the things he said about how to manage the Earth’s population and weeding out the weaklings, which means everyone except his unique all-knowing self. hahahahahahaha. When I met his mom, she told me that “Michael marches to the beat of a different drum”. I wish she would have just told me to RUN AWAY FROM HER MEAN SON! She knows something is wrong with him. He pulls her strings and pushes her buttons until she cries too. A sociopath has early childhood red flags of anti-social behavior, as I have read. Surprisingly, during the last month of being with him, he told me about him being singled out as a problem student from the time he was in kindergarten, and that he had to go to a special class room, and that for some reason, none of the teachers he had throughout school treated him with any respect because they wouldn’t let him spell words how he thought they should be spelled and that homework wasn’t necessary for being able to pass the tests at the end of the school year. He told me that he cheated to be able to graduate high school, because he promised his mom that the one thing he would do for her was to graduate high school, and since he knew that the teachers weren’t going to let him pass on his own, he cheated during final exams. How does one cheat on finals? Inside job. He made friends with the teachers aid who had access to the test questions and answers.
He doesn’t have a job. He owns run down property that he bought with money he made selling pot in the past. He lives in his dead dad’s house for free, thanks to both of his brothers’ fear of asking him to contribute any money for it. He says he is a landlord, but his renters either don’t pay him the whole rent, or they don’t pay him at all. He still sells pot, but he doesn’t know that I know. I was afraid of what he might do to me during a break up, if he knew I knew. He is violent and destructive when he has been painted into a corner of his own doing and me always calling him out on whatever it was that he was doing was so mean and/or uncalled for, but with that one thing, I knew better than to tell him I knew. He once told me that he felt sorry for me for trying so hard to work things out with him because I couldn’t see that it would be easier for us if I would “just agree with him”. As if all of our problems would cease if I would just capitulate to his weird wired brain…….without question.
Here’s to continued peace without an incessantly talking mean scary creepy dude in the picture! 🙂 and my belongings aren’t getting destroyed either. He dumped a 20oz cup of coffee on the seats of my brand new car last year and blamed me because he didn’t think the lid would come of when he tossed it at me.
The list of the reasons why I should be with him is blank. The list of reasons why I should not be with him is never ending, so it will never be finished.
thanks again LF, it’s nice to get some of this out. My friends can’t take another minute of hearing about mike.
Peace,
Jenni
Please stay NC with your sociopath; the WORST thing you can do is to argue or talk any kind of sense to them. ANY kind of confrontation they take as a personal challenge to their power and will end in your life being in jeopardy. Walk away as that will be your victory; do not waste your time trying to figure him out; I wasted 40 years doing that.
Jenni, congratulations on the 21 days of no contact!!!
Keep venting here it really does help to get all of your ex’s craziness brain washing out of your mind and for you to truly see who he is…when you have doubt about ending your relationship vent, read, read, read about sociopathic behavior and watch the Lovefraud videos at the top of this site.
Happy Holidays!!
Jenni,
OMGOSH! I was smiling when I read your post. Not because it’s funny, exactly. But because it is so accurate. Such a perfect rant about the incomprehensible ways these types screw with our heads and hearts.
What made me smile is just how ridiculous he is. How childish, mean, impolite, rude, impatient, self-absorbed, boring, one dimensional, and illogical. Just a total DUD. It is amazing how these cretins can take control of us if we don’t really understand what and how they really are. I have been away from any direct influence of any one of them for a long enough time I just found your description of him amusing.
But, he is not safe. He is dangerous, for all his ridiculousness. His words are weapons, meant to shred the heart and baffle the mind.
If you can NEVER again listen to him. As soon as we hear their words we are being screwed with. Period.
hi slimone,
I learned about socio/psychopaths in March 2012 after already being with him for 2 years, when I came across LoveFraud. I had been clicking on those “Are you in a health relationship?” quizzes, that give a score at the end on which way the relationship seems to lean, and eventually my clicking led to LoveFraud.
I could hardly believe what I was reading! It was validation. It brought me back from the brink of thinking like a hopeless human.
I was starting to think that driving my car off a cliff (I would never really do that) sounded better than to have to try and get him to listen to me long enough for me to be able to convince him that his meanness was ruining things……(I kept an open mind, because I am not a professional, that maybe he was not an anti social narc psycho). He is.
I eventually told him that he has the majority of the traits of a sociopath. I am usually not scared when I am angry and telling him that came out during an argument within months of my finding LoveFraud.
I don’t know why it took me so long to admit to myself that he IS disordered on a PERMANENT basis, and that he cannot conceive of the idea of improving on himself because there is nothing that needs improving upon.
But anyway slimone, you apparently know him too because you nailed him with a bulls-eye when you described him:
“just how ridiculous he is. How childish, mean, impolite, rude, impatient, self-absorbed, boring, one dimensional, and illogical. Just a total DUD”
yep.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays,
Jenni Marie
Oh Jenni, your words ring so true for those of us who dealt with these sick narc socios.
Your stories and comments could have come straight from my experience as well. I once commented that I didn’t think his kid looked like him, more like his wife. He said in a very nasty voice, “Well everyone says he looks exactly like me and he does.”
One thing I never understood, of course until I realized he was socio, was how I’d tell him things that happened to me (hit by a car a couple of days before and thankfully knocked into the street but just cuts and bruises). His response, “Ya always have to make eye contact.” I was once again, shocked. Not a word about how I was or if I was OK. This happened right by the office, on a very dangerous road, so I was hoping he’d immediately put out an email to all to be very careful crossing all the driveways as people may not be paying attention. The guy that hit me was, of course, on his phone.
I thought, “Wait, does someone how purportedly cares about you, have no feelings at all about your physical condition after being hit and knocked into the street?”
I was completely freaking shocked by this response.
When I had to be out of the office for an extended period, I was hoping to have a few minutes with him on my next to last day. Know what I got? I ran into him on the elevator, and he said, “Hey, why don’t you just take off tomorrow?” I was shattered. No hug, no good luck, no “talk at you soon,” no “gonna miss you.” This from a guy who started and propelled this nothing “relationship”? Thankfully it never got physical. They deserve the worst but even when they get it, unless it hurts their wallet and lifestyle, they couldn’t care less. Thankfully, the individual in my life did have some bad things happen to him. Lost his marriage, hopefully he will not have much if any time alone with his kid, and also a lawsuit against him from someone he tried to rip off. But ya know what? I’m sure he’s still hitting on women and probably has had hundreds of encounters since I saw him last. Just horrific.
Bally & Jenni marie, my ex too!!
Early in the relationship I would think does this guy every shut up? I grew up in a family of none talkers. we were more doers to express our love for each other vs words…during my marriage with my ex I would often think of the saying “actions speak louder then words” when it came to my ex husband as he was all words and would manipulate people (lots of people) to do all of his actions by making them feel pity for him and that he needs “help” with his project or job of course during the marriage I was very complexed at how he could get so many people to do his work including me now I know he used “pity play”. I realize now that my ex was absolutely masterful at manipulating people with his words and could literally have a large cult church following if he so desired. I have witnessed him getting out of many speeding tickets with his words, or convened me to stay when I had concrete evidence that he was cheating, get people running around getting food/drinks for him or convinced people to loan him large sums of money for a toy he wanted.
He would learn the bear basics of a topic that no one else knew so that he looked “so smart” plus he would talk in circles changing his points not sure why if he forgot what he was talking about or to confuse everyone or both. But most likely it was all just “word salad” to manipulate/confuse/break people down. He often used gas lighting manipulation looking back on our conversations and would use reward & punishment with words to get people to do his job. He knew exactly what he was doing to control people’s mind to have a cult like following of people willing to do anything for him so that he was “upset”. Everyone including myself was worried to not upset him…for me it was because I just wanted peace in my life and he being in my life was never peacefully ever.
During a fight he would again talk in circles that you literally would forget what you were fighting about. He loved to fight he would spend hours on the phone fighting with his brother…now I know it was all to control someone to wear them down mentally so he could control them and plant his brain washing seeds into all of our minds plus he wanted to create high levels of anxiety in his victims to control them even more including me.
I’m not a fighter by nature so I was perfect for him to control as I would bring up a issue and he would attempt his mental games so that I would think we had a resolution but there was never any resolution I just learned to pick my fights with him. The last few years he was loosing control over my mind since we had attended marriage counseling and I wanted to leave him this is when he started the mental games of shoving me up against a wall or preventing me from leaving a room just invoking constant fear of being hurt by him and he would have hour long screaming rant while I was pinned up against the wall or prevented from leaving a room. I was smart enough during these times to not engage him with any words. Of course after these times then he would beg me for my forgiveness…it was the classic cycle of domestic abuse power & control wheel behavior on his part.
I always had goals of things I wanted to do ie have a nice flower garden, travel, join sports groups etc but he would take over my goals as if they were his but instead of planting a flower garden he would want me to plant a veggie garden something I was not interested in because I travelled so much and I loved flowers not a veggie garden then he would leave the veggie garden to me to tend to and would make me feel guilty if I did not focus on it. Each year if I did not plant the veggie garden he would sulk but he would never help me of course he told everyone that it was “his garden” even though he did nothing.
He never had an interest in politics but once I did he took over the conversation about politics as if he was the one volunteering at a political office. Eventually he lecture people about politics and how their view should be not just a few mins but for hours exactlylike a cult leader would do. I would eventually have no interest in the subject I was once interested in…I think that is one of the things he wanted If I met new people he would loose control so he would prevent me from growing as a person with underhanded manipulation.
SO SO GLAD TO BE FREE FROM HIS NEVER ENDING RANTING WORDS!!! My mind has peace again.
To me, the fundamental of any and all religions is to ‘treat others as you yourself would want to be treated’. This certainly would NOT include any sociopaths as they are all me, me, me.
Jenni Marie, the only thing that should have been knocked back then was that freak of nature out of your life.
It’s very early days for you. My advice is to read up as much as you can on psychopathy as it reminds you of what they are and what their game plan is. I have been no contact since June 2012. I didn’t know anything about psychopathy then but NC was easy for me luckily. And he rolled back as many do and I ignored the texts…by then I had learned about psychos and it was funny to see him try and suck me in for his game again….as the literature says many do. I got another today wishing me a happy Xmas, in love with me blah blah blah. I’d forgotten about him. It just all makes me laugh now when you know what they are and how they behave as the text book says. When you are educated in psychopathy, you have control. And a good laugh! Please stick with NC and once your brain chemicals return to normal you won’t even think about him. And a text message from them makes you feel nothing. Use your reading, as I did, to relate him to what is described in the books. It makes the reading even more interesting to have a real example!
When I first got rid of the spath, after he had waged his discard on me, I found the silence really difficult. I mean, in the beginning of his being gone I was so wounded that all that new silence, calm, time, etc…was so filled with pain, shame, and longing. It was really hard to take. I had gotten rather used to having ‘no life’. Then, after his departure, what life I did have left was rotten and falling to bits. Plus, like so many of us, at that point I felt like it was ‘all my fault’ for being so stupid, gullible, and trusting to let such an obvious creep into my life, that I spent a lot of my new time hating myself.
That was the hardest period. The time when I thought that the very person who had created the mess would some how be able to make it all better if they would just come back.
This is a very vulnerable period in a person’s recovery. This is the time to completely maintain NO contact. Eventually the silence becomes a gift. But it certainly takes time to feel that way about it. Or for me it did.
How I wish this website was available when I was going through my hell of a sham “marriage”. I feel your pain. He would torture me with his actions, yet he was the one I needed to comfort me, a sick, vicious cycle. I’m so glad I was able to get out and my children are adults now. I despised myself for ruining my future and affecting my children by my “choice” of a spouse. The devil got some things, but he didn’t get ALL he wanted. My children are doing well today and are aware of those “kind of people”.
I ditto the wish that this site had been available in the late ’70’s and early ’80’s to help me figure out what was wrong in my 23 year marriage. My bad choice of marriage partner likely wouldn’t have been prevented but I might have had the knowledge and courage to leave before giving birth to what later became 5 psychotic children. Knowledge is power!
The next generation will be better informed, much thanks to everyone who shares their experiences. I wonder how the enlightenment will change the lives of psychopaths and their targets?