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With sociopaths, words and actions can both be lies

Pensive woman

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Lovefraud received the following observation from a reader who posts as “new_day”:

I just had an A-ha moment while scrolling through Facebook. I read a post that said, “Words may lie but actions always tell the truth.” The problem with understanding how sociopathic behavior is so damaging to others, is that we have to realize even Actions can Lie!!

Those who are hollow of any truth or love are masters of acting! They can entertain us into thinking they are the good and loving soul mate that we were blessed to meet. In reality, it was all love fraud.

Somehow, I am expected to move forward with the inability to trust another person’s actions again.

This is a very astute observation. Anyone who has tangled with a sociopath knows that they lie. They tell big lies, small lies, outrageous lies and stupid lies. Sociopaths lie while looking deep into your eyes and clasping your hand in theirs, promising that they will never lie to you.

Unfortunately, humans are lousy lie detectors, especially in the beginning of a romantic involvement, as the liar is showering you with affection. When the sweet words include, “I’ll love you forever,” and “You’re the one I’ve been waiting for all my life,” well, who doesn’t want to believe them?

Words and actions

The standard advice regarding sociopaths is to ignore their words and pay attention to their actions. But as this reader, new_day, points out, sometimes you can’t pay attention to their actions either.

The actions of a sociopath may lie as well. They may take you out for a romantic dinner, play with your kids, help you take care of your house, buy flowers for your mother.

Usually, when someone engages in behaviors like these it’s because they want to show that they care about you. When sociopaths take what seems to be caring, thoughtful actions, they have an agenda. They are behaving in a socially appropriate way because they are reeling you in for future exploitation, or creating an image that will benefit them in other exploitation projects.

Of course, you know this now, most likely after learning the hard way. So what does all this mean for your recovery? How do you move forward in life, and build new relationships, when you feel like you can’t trust people’s words and you can’t trust people’s actions.

You learn to trust yourself.

And how do you do that? By focusing on your own healing.

Trusting your internal signals

If you’re like most people who became involved with sociopaths, you knew in your gut, from early in the involvement, that something was wrong. The story didn’t add up; you had a bad feeling; you sensed something was amiss. But you didn’t listen to yourself.

The biggest reason why you didn’t trust your instincts was probably because you didn’t know that sociopaths existed. You didn’t know that people live among us who look just like us, but have no heart, no conscience and no remorse.

Now you know. You have the empirical knowledge to make sense of those internal warnings, if you ever feel them again.

But when you have a general mistrust of everyone, how do you differentiate between legitimate internal warnings and imagined internal warnings ?

Value in healing

That’s where the healing comes in. With healing, you become comfortable with the concept that while most people are basically good, a certain segment of the population is not.

With healing, you learn to value yourself. You come to understand that you’re the one who knows what is best for you. You feel comfortable walking away from anyone or anything that doesn’t feel right, without waiting for objective proof that the situation is bad.

Now, even a good, solid recovery may not totally prevent sociopaths from coming into your life. There are simply too many of them among us, they’re everywhere, and they’re very, very good at their acts. So they may fool you for awhile.

But with recovery, they won’t fool you for long. And when your instincts start emitting warnings, you’ll know what they mean.

Here’s how I define success in spotting sociopaths: It’s not keeping them out of your life entirely. It’s getting them out of your life before they do serious damage.

When you learn to trust yourself, you can achieve that success.

 


Posted in: Donna Andersen

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79 Comments on "With sociopaths, words and actions can both be lies"

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Your reader is dead on. My spath always seemed so caring and loving and generous to the children, that is on the rare occasion when he was around. I would say to myself he’s a monster to me (love bombing days long over) but look at him with the kids. There’d he would be chasing my young son around the yard with the fervor of a 5 year old. I would watch wishing I could tap into that part of his ‘personality’. My light bulb moment when I saw clearly his motivation of ‘divide and conquer’ was when I sent my daughter out with a bucket to wash the car. My daughter had been cooped up inside the house for days due to bad weather. However, she couldn’t get out of her funk in that beautiful sunny day. So I sent her outside to do a chore knowing she would feel better. She wasn’t outside for two minutes when the spath came home. I heard her say to him, “mom said I had to wash the car. I think she thinks I’ll feel better.” Then I saw her take money from him, she picked up the bucket and rags and came into the house. I said to her you couldn’t be done. She said, “Dad gave me money to go to the car wash.” Now I could see clearly he didn’t give a rats ass about her. He didn’t care about her funk, about teaching her a work ethic, only undermining me. He knew what he was doing that I would never give a teenager $15 for a car wash. I saw him for what he was that day. But that was the theme, to undermine me by looking so generous. That’s how he got himself three kids with divide and conquer behavior.

This is SO my SP son…

Throwing his kids up in the air…chasing them around…but none of it is genuine.

He always carefully looks to see who is watching (making sure that at least someone is) while he plays the ‘perfect’ father.

Hah.

Their ACTIONS even lie!!!

Bev,
It’s not genuine. Mine threw me off because he didn’t appear to need an “audience”. Now I’m seeing he did have an audience-ME. I could be sick, upset, you name it he would never say, “What’s the matter”. But when it came to the kids if one of them would be sulking he would make it such at production to say, “What’s the matter” to them, always right in front of me. To show me he knew the words, actions…, he wanted me to see what he was. I realize now that I was the MAIN target. His goal from the get go was to destroy me. And if he had to generous, playful with the kids, extra kind to people at work, extra kind to people I knew-there was an agenda-to get me.

For sure, it’s not genuine becomingstrong.

My son always looked at ME when he was pretending to be human.

I think that he has now discarded me (thank goodnes!!), as he never tries to contact me any more, now that I know the truth about him.

I do, however, sense that he would still like to destroy me in whatever way that he can. All he has in that department at the moment, is playing his father (my husband) for a fool, and then my husband and I fighting about things… but even that seems to have dropped off. My husband seems to not be getting sucked into HIS bullshit as easily any more.

I can see my son doing the same thing as your ex…saying ‘what’s the matter’ to his children, or at least his son (he does not seem to ‘like’ his 3 year old daughter I think because she isn’t too fond of him either…she sees things in HIM I believe, that make her uncomfortable)…but never saying anything nice nor having any real concern for his ex wife…

Bev,

Your granddaughter knows something’s wrong with him. My daughter, kept away from the spath and when forced to deal with him, i.e.: visitation, she had melt down. Good that your husband is seeing the light. One in road is as though that person is sitting in your living room. All avenues need to be closed. And yes they can destroy you directly or indirectly it has the same effect on them. If he can destroy your marriage, your relationship with your grandchildren, or just plain wear you down all the better. You sound like your his main target. I would consider disavowing him in front of your daughter in law. That way he knows he can’t use you to hurt her, i.e.: sending him an email directing at him but cc’ing her. Not a blind cc. Saying, “I would never go to dinner with you. I would never meet your new girlfriend. You are trying to create doubt in someone who does not doubt me. I am writing this to you to strip you down in front of her. And I’m not going to tolerate you’re lying about me.” Just a suggestion.

That sounds like the perfect thing!

I had written HIM a letter a few months back, that I never sent to him. My mother actually thought that I should rethink sending it as it may draw retaliation from him. I did send it to my daughter in law, though…it was full of things like how I believed nothing that came out of his mouth…and that he should not be a father…that he destroyed his marriage, not anyone else…(as he had pleaded with my husband and I after they split up, to believe him that it was all my DIL’s fault…perhaps, but only in that she had realized who he is, did the smart thing, and got the hell out).

I almost hope that she somehow sent it to him…I really am not afraid of retaliation…sometimes I think I fear him, but really, I think that I am not afraid of him at all. He is just a pathetic little worm, now, in my eyes.

Yes, he seems to dislike his poor little daughter (he had pics of his son on his FB page, but not his daughter) and I am sure that it is because he cannot manipulate her to jump through his false hoops the way he can his son. His poor son humors the piss out of him, I think, just to not anger him.

Thank you for that info. Like I said, I am hoping that HE somehow read the letter that I had written to send to him, but ended up sending to her. It may be almost the same thing that you are telling me to do! And…I agree!!

You are wonderful in your insight 🙂 How I love your personality!!

Bev,
Don’t know why there’s no “Reply” button under your last comment, so I’ll post where I can. You’ve been a huge support to me. I could not wrap my head around the utter destruction. My friends support me but few understand what I’ve had to do. They don’t totally understand that I cannot have any inroads or I just might as well stay in that “marriage” (slavery). I’ve had to educate them on this. There will never be a day that we can be a civilized divorced couple. exchanging children to and fro. Hell NO! I’m going to be gone, poof, when this divorce is done.

Batten down the hatches and then brace yourselves for the storm. I like the idea of your letter and that you sent it to your daughter in law. If he tries to invoke your name again with your daughter in law I’d stop him right there with another letter. Yes there is retaliation, retribution, blood to be paid, but he’s drawing less of it with your allies, but your allies need to do their part. He’s working the back door by trying to get two birds with one stone. You and your daughter in law. If he can get to her and the kids, he gets you, it’s a twofer.

I’m beginning to think mine is becoming psychotic. He’s full blown psychopath, the narcissim is gone. I wonder what is his next move? I can see a whole host of problems he will create to get me (getting himself is the same as getting me, we are now one in the same person). If he get’s arrested in his mind he’s hurt me, in that I have to the kids back who would blame me and hate me forever. If he loses his job, it hurts me. I’m having to prepare for the unthinkable/predictable to get my divorce. He told the judge he is willing to go to prison on Friday. It’s a race, get my divorce and get out. The longer he drags it out the more opportunities he has to destroy me.

And YOU have been a huge support to me as well! I never thought that I would be a help to anyone…perhaps you felt the same, but here we are…HELPING EACH OTHER…and maybe others too :).

The last email my DIL sent me said sort of what you are saying…that my son was ‘imploding’. She forwarded a ‘scree grab’ from my son’s FB page where he had a long rant / tirade about the state of marriage and fidelity in our society today…he sounded like a complete idiot! It was so out of character for him. Perhaps, he is getting psychotic. Maybe some spaths are not able to contend with exposure, once it happens and that have a meltdown? Who knows. It might be nice to see him ‘hurt’ just a little bit, like he has hurt so many. He always just seems to slide on to the next thing…

I certainly do know what you you mean about explaining to friends / family about not allowing ANY inroads. My wonderfully understanding mother has learned as much as I have throughout all of this convolution (there’s my favorite word again). We have joined and read this website and I swear, I do not know WHERE we would be without it.

Let’s hope that whatever ploys your ex tries or uses will only backfire to YOUR advantage! Wouldn’t that be so great? Perhaps he is getting sloppy and revealing much too much about himself and what he is. I think that is happening with my son as well.

Please let them slide quietly away to the next drama that does not include us in their cast of characters!!

Sorry for all the typos in this one…I was typing feverishly!

SCREEN GRAB, was what I meant to type.

And THEY have a meltdown, instead of that…

Yikes! 🙂

Bev,

Yes, I will gladly give up my Oscar winning role of pathetic victimized wife to the new prey. What will I do then, without the flying monkeys, destruction, and eternal unhappiness? I just finished strategizing with my friend and we have composed a wonderful email to my spath replete with all the word salad he can sink his teeth into. He’ll be reading and reading this one for a long time wondering what to do. Setting him up in regards to his custody battle he is threatening. Problem is I stayed too long in this marriage. He’s like a voodoo doll. If he pricks the doll it draws blood from me. I would like to hear more about your son and his behavior, both then and now. Your mother sounds great! She gets it.
My friend here asks, “what does Bev say”. I have learned much and have a better understanding of what I need to do. Also, I’m sure your daughter in law appreciates such a bold upfront ally.

OMG…really?

That is very cool!! I love so much that I am helping!! I hope my advice is sound and good…I get kind of crazy at times and really angry at HIM.

The letter that you did sounds great.

We are getting so strong!

I could write a book about me son. It strange, but when I look back upon the past 34 years, it is all so clear.

MY son, mot me son…I am not a Brit…lol!

becomingstrong
My ex did the same type thing, be very loving and caring to others in front of me. It was to let me know that he was that way with those who deserved it but that I did NOT deserve love. He did it with my daughter and I allowed it b/c I didn’t know about sociopaths then. My thinking was, he doesn’t love me, but he loves her and I love her so that mattered more than the disrespect towards me. Little did I know about parental alienation. He was teaching her that I was nothing to respect and it took years for her to stop treating me that way.

He also claimed to have integrity b/c someone told him that they admired that about me. Compliments about me PISSED him off, and this one especially so… he’d NEVER used that word before but after that he campaigned around town that HE has integrity. I agree he had integrity, Weird integrity but it fits the definition – that his words and his deeds matched. Sneaky backstabbing undermining hidden agenda manipulating words that went with Sneaky backstabbing undermining hidden agenda manipulating deeds. NOBODY used the word integrity in the way HE used it. That was his skill, to take words and change the definition… what I’d define as love or cherish or honor or faithfulness was not the same definition he used. ~shaking my head at the nonsense.

Wow…they can really be ‘smart’ can’t they?

They seem to want to CHANGE the people in their lives to ‘think like they do’ or do what they them to do…but, if those people do change at all, or try to do what the SP wants, then the SP does not like THAT either…they cannot seem to accept ANYTHING. Even what they THOUGHT that they wanted?? Does that make sense?

It’s all so weirdly convoluted. I use the word CONVOLUTED a loy when I talk about SPs…

a LOT…sorry for the typo

Bev
Convoluted to explain a sociopath’s logic is spot on.

While going through my divorce, I used to say “in my world” and “in your world” so I could draw a distinction from what ruled in my ex’s world. I simply could not use the words the same way he did.

Very good…I like that.

My son is definitely in his OWN world. The way that he talks and writes don’t even make sense. Word salad and sentence circles. You have to keep shaking the cobwebs out of your head when reading one of his emails…

Convoluted is my go-to from here on in…

🙂

Notwhathesaid ofme,

I feel like I’m reading my story over and over again. Yes, he did it for parental alienation. I was watching my destruction as he ran and ran around the yard with my son. Who knew?

Hi Bev:

I was thinking about your comment…“They seem to want to CHANGE the people in their lives to ’think like they do’ or do what they them to do”but, if those people do change at all, or try to do what the SP wants, then the SP does not like THAT either”they cannot seem to accept ANYTHING. Even what they THOUGHT that they wanted?? Does that make sense?”

I used to feel that if I said the sky was blue, my ex would say “no, it’s light blue”. If I said, “okay, maybe it’s light blue” then he’d say, “No, can’t you see it’s dark blue, how could you ever think it’s light blue…” and on and on it would go.

I don’t think he cared about the color of the sky; instead this was simply a tactic to do one of two things–or even both. He wanted to wear me down, and after doing this hour after hour, day after day, year after year this almost reduced me to “dust.” (Doing this was evidence of how much control he had over me.)

He also wanted to get a reaction out of me right then–to get me to engage him about the frustrating conversation; his gaslighting; whether the sky was really light blue or dark blue, etc. That’s what he wanted–the feeling of control that my reaction or my gradual erosion gave him. It “fueled” him.

There is no end to it because a SP probably doesn’t care if you do “this” or “that”—he/she cares that you react to them. If you look at it that way, perhaps it’s not convoluted at all–it’s just a SP seeking what motivates him/her– a feeling of power by triggering a reaction from you (short-term) or a change in you (long-term).

That’s why no contact or no emotional reaction (grey rock method) are so important. Whatever fuels them, whatever they are looking for”we want them to stop getting it from us.

Yes! Absolutely!

That makes sense.

It all never seems to make any sense with SPs…

So true about your experiences showing how manipulative the actions can be…comparing notes with other victims of my cousin rosemary, it was clear she used lines from tv and movies …acting her way to conning money and fraud. She even lied about volunteer work to seem genuine.

“You learn to trust yourself”…That advise is so powerful.

So often we hear that actions speak louder than words. I have always believed this since my experience with a pathological liar. I just couldn’t connect that part about the actions. I would tell myself that he must be a good person deep inside because of the random nice things that I saw him do. I was fooled. He is an actor who is worthy of an academy award!

My next step will be to trust my internal signals. This will be difficult for me because trusting nobody and watching from the sidelines, is MUCH easier than getting in the game and trusting my own instincts at this point.

One thing I know for sure is that knowledge is power. The more I learn about myself, the stronger I’ll be next time I see the red flags. Thank you, Donna! I feel like my broken pieces are starting to fit together again each time I read your blog.

One night, I was awakened by my phone. It was midnight. It was my guy calling to ask if I had heard anything further regarding the sexual misconduct investigation swirling around him at our job.
I asked him, “Is THAT the reason you’re calling me in the middle of the night, for insider information?”
“No”, he replied, “I was thinking about you.” Uh huh.
“Ya know, babe, I told my therapist all about you, your behavior, everything. She said you’re a sociopath. I believe her”, I told him…
His response?
“Your words don’t match your actions.”
I reckon this would be considered projection.
I’ve since, lived by the law of believing actions, only; not words.
It’s incredible that a person can’t even trust what they see. Even with a narcissist, their actions speak volumes.
And trust me, I dated a narc and a spath at the same time; they ARE different.
Anyway, after reading this, I’m stunned yet again, and by something that happened two years ago.
Wow…

Excellent Post Donna!!

Hi Diane111, just checking to see how you are doing this week 🌴

Hi Jan7, Seems we’ve lost touch the past few weeks. I’ve been on LF during my lunch breaks to remain focused and not lose myself while I work through the lovebombing and gaslighting. Everyone’s posts/comments on here give me strength to get through the craziness. Still not where I want and need to be. Miss our “talks”.

Hi Diane111, so glad you posted again 🙂 Sorry that I have not been on just busy..when I was on you weren’t & vise versa.

It’s great that you are coming here and reading everyones comments that really does help to first know that you are not alone and second it will help open your mind up from all brain washing & mind control your h is doing to you. Also read Donna’s post as they are all excellent.

How have things been in your home with your h?

Hi Jan7,

Totally understand … life IS busy. Not like it was back in the Andy Griffith Show days, just hanging out in front of the barber shop 🙂

I’m on LF most days during my lunch, like I said, just to stay focused and strong. The articles always hit home with me. The comments from other readers … my heart breaks for them. They seem to have it so much worse than me. I pray for all of us.

I’ve read Donna’s books. She’s spot on with all of this. Now if only I could follow her advice. I’ll get there though … I have faith.

Home life has been calm. Mainly because I’ve been trained not to “rock the boat” so as not to upset him. The “walking on eggshells” syndrome. My h loses his patience with the puppy though. I realize a puppy needs to be trained but to hit him hard enough to make him yelp is going too far, at least in my opinion. Last night h was laying on the floor and the puppy jumped on him and scratch his chin. He hit the puppy, the puppy yelps, and gets called a “f*&%#ing dog” and a
“f*&%#er”. Well, he’s a puppy and you’re laying on the floor. The puppy is going to want to play.

I can feel the need to run and escape in every inch of my body … stomach in knots.

My granddaughter and one of her friends spent the night on Saturday. H was working nights, however, he was home for a few hours before going into work. My granddaughter’s friend told her that I “was nice and cute” and h made her nervous. There’s that gut-feeling and intuition … first impression of a 16 year old.

Take care, Jan7 … chat again soon.

Hi Diane111,

Glad you read Donna’s book. I would also highly recommend that you read the book Women who love psychopaths by Sandra Brown. My counselor gave me this book the very first day I met her & described my then h. This book really gave me the fully understanding of the hell I was enduring daily.

Like you & every victim of a sociopath I was walking on egg shells. This is NOT a way to live. Always waiting for him to get angry at the most ridicules thing or at a person he work with. What I realized after I left and educated myself on his disorder was that he intentionally created most of the chaos & drama to control me…he did this for fun & so that I was so dazed and confused that I would not be able to find the door out of the relationship. I was always thinking & rethinking about what he said like a tape recorder that never ended..just rewinding it over and over trying to make since but this is really bad for the brain and it causes anxiety & depression issues.

My anxiety level was through the roof when I was with him…it was awful. In Sandra Brown’s book she explains this aspect.

I remember living in hell…if I cooked dinner there was always something wrong with the dinner…yet he never cooked or went to the grocery store for that matter yet he would tell me I bought the wrong brand of food…if he wanted breakfast he would ask me to cook it for him by telling me that I “made the eggs better then him”…I did not like breakfast but I made if for him then he would complain about it.

When I did the dishes he would complain that I left soap on the pots/pans…which was one bubble…yet he never did the dishes.

Your h only thinks about himself…if he is treating a puppy this way now just wait until the puppy turns into a dog. He will most likely be very abusive towards your dog far worse. Just another reason to leave him.

I remember when I started to feed a stray cat around the house while my ex was away on a “business trip”…the cat and I bonded very quickly even though she was a stray…my ex would give the cat food but the cat never bonded with him…when the cat decided she wanted to move in the home I took her to the vet for a full checkup. The poor little thing had been living outside in the wild for about 4 years the vet said. So when she trusted me fully she moved in and wanted to be every where I was including on my pillow at night…warm & comfy & protected.

My ex complained about it & would toss the poor cat off the bed. Which infuriated me yet I had to keep my cool. I would tell my ex h (then h) that the cat does not know that you dont want her on the pillow she just instinctively knows that is the safest place for her and she feels the most loved and apart of our family by being on the pillow. It was like talking to a wall when we had the conversations. He has no feelings so he can not relate to a stray cat living in the wild afraid trying to survive. Just like you h can not understand that a baby dog just like a baby human does not know how to control his little paws from scratching him.

I am glad you “can feel the need to run & escape”…THIS IS GOOD THINKING!! Just remember to get help from your local domestic abuse center to help you now with an EXIT PLAN out so that you are safe.

I am glad also that you are truly listening to your granddaughters friend and her very perceptive gut instinct. She is accurate about him!! And this is a little eye opener for you. These little moments are the moments that open your mind up from your h brain washing & mind control.

Think about now on when you first met your h and your own reaction to him?

Do you remember when you first met your husband that your gut alarm went off??

If so think about that moment & truly analyst it!

Talk with you tomorrow 🐈🐕🌲Take care!

Hi Jan7,
Thank you once again for your own stories and your insightfulness. Honestly, LF and your comments, and the books, are maintaining my sanity and giving me strength when I start to have doubts because of the love-bombing. You’ve become a good friend to me on here 🙂

A story about my poor puppy ” the night before last, the puppy carried one of the h’s sneaks into the leaving room. Wasn’t chewing on it, just carrying it. H was laying on the floor ” he stood up, yelling at the puppy ” and hit the puppy, not once, but three times on the side of the head, and of course, calling him some choice names. I was sick to my stomach ” still am. Another situation ” another reason ” to get the hell out of there! I didn’t react or say anything as he has conditioned me not to ” “don’t poke a bear with a stick”. I just knew to keep my mouth shut.

Thanks for the information on the book. I will definitely be checking it out. I recently bought Daily Wisdom for Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. The only parts of the book that don’t pertain to me are the couple chapters on children. The other chapters are right on target.

I just want this to be over ” I want to be in a better place, emotionally and mentally. I know I have a long road ahead of me, but like you, I’m struggling with finding that door to escape. I also know that as long as I stay with him, my mind and emotions will always be in turmoil ” anxiety and depression overload. For my health and sanity, I need to leave. I know this. Again, I need to take that step/leap and just go!

Take care, Jan ” talk with you soon ((HUGS))

Hi Diane,

What would you do if a stranger came to your home & did what your husband did to your sweet puppy?

Would you think it was ok?

Sometimes we settle for situation because we feel we have to because they are our “husbands” after all .

But I can tell you what your husband did to your sweet puppy is ABUSE!!! Plain & simple. (read this statement again!!)

If your husband is doing the same to you IT’S ABUSE!!!

Puppy’s do not know that they are not suppose to bring in the shoe to the living room from the closet. No they just think this looks great to play with…how fun is it to have such a happy simple mind like your little happy go lucky puppy 🙂

And for your husband to not only ruin your puppy’s simple joy but to abuse the puppy is absolutely heart wrenching. He should have simply picked up a toy that your puppy was allowed to play with and taken the shoe way without the puppy seeing his switch.

By you having to bit your tongue so that world war III does not break out you are settling in your life. You & your sweet puppy deserve a peaceful environment!! This is normal living!! Normal people are not YELLING!! The are having a conversation.

Glad you got the book Why does he do that? by Lundy…this is an excellent book and you will learn a lot from it. Glad that you are doing your homework to open your mind up to the hell you are living Diane. It’s not easy…but it will be the greatest gift you give to not only you but your family & sweet puppy.

You state ” I’m struggling with finding that door to escape.”

this is normal…but please please please reach out to your local abuse center. See if you can call a counselor once a week to chat this will help you find the door…I promise this will help you. If you can afford to find a counselor that is highly educated in narcissistic abuse and see if they will conduct phone counseling with you.

YOU can also use someone like Steven Hassan of Freedom of mind resource center (see their site under same name) for more info.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE ANYMORE KEEP REACHING OUT FOR HELP DIANE…most abuse victims have been so isolated for so long by their abuser that they forget how to reach out for help. You reached out for help with us here and now is the time to reach out for help with a counselor.

HUGS to you!! 💜 Take care.

Diane, I just wanted to add when you read the book Why does he do that…keep a journal of what you learn in the book and then write down what your husband does that is similar. Writing out your thoughts will also help unchain your brain from your husbands control. Then after reread what you wrote each day.

You will see the pattern of behavior your husband is doing to you to control you. It’s quite shocking when you write it all out on paper.

Hi Diane, Found this on the net about recognizing what is abuse”

“…Recognizing abuse is the first step to getting help

Domestic abuse often escalates from threats and verbal abuse to violence. And while physical injury may be the most obvious danger, the emotional and psychological consequences of domestic abuse are also severe.

Emotionally abusive relationships can destroy your self-worth, lead to anxiety and depression, and make you feel helpless and alone. No one should have to endure this kind of pain—and your first step to breaking free is recognizing that your situation is abusive.

Once you acknowledge the reality of the abusive situation, then you can get the help you need.

Signs of an abusive relationship

There are many signs of an abusive relationship. The most telling sign is fear of your partner. If you feel like you have to walk on eggshells around your partner—constantly watching what you say and do in order to avoid a blow-up—chances are your relationship is unhealthy and abusive.

Other signs that you may be in an abusive relationship include a partner who belittles you or tries to control you, and feelings of self-loathing, helplessness, and desperation.

To determine whether your relationship is abusive, answer the questions below. The more “yes” answers, the more likely it is that you’re in an abusive relationship.

Signs that you’re in an abusive relationship

Your Inner Thoughts and Feelings
Do you:
feel afraid of your partner much of the time?
avoid certain topics out of fear of angering your partner?
believe that you deserve to be hurt or mistreated?
wonder if you’re the one who is crazy?
feel emotionally numb or helpless?
Your Partner’s Belittling Behavior
Does your partner:
humiliate or yell at you?
criticize you and put you down?
treat you so badly that you’re embarrassed for your friends or family to see?
ignore or put down your opinions or accomplishments?
blame you for their own abusive behavior?
see you as property or a sex object, rather than as a person?
Your Partner’s Violent Behavior or Threats
Does your partner:
have a bad and unpredictable temper?
hurt you, or threaten to hurt or kill you?
threaten to take your children away or harm them?
threaten to commit suicide if you leave?
force you to have sex?
destroy your belongings?
Your Partner’s Controlling Behavior

Does your partner:
act excessively jealous and possessive?
control where you go or what you do?
keep you from seeing your friends or family?
limit your access to money, the phone, or the car?
constantly check up on you?
Physical abuse and domestic violence

When people talk about domestic violence, they are often referring to the physical abuse of a spouse or intimate partner. Physical abuse is the use of physical force against someone in a way that injures or endangers that person. Physical assault or battering is a crime, whether it occurs inside or outside of the family. The police have the power and authority to protect you from physical attack.

Sexual abuse is a form of physical abuse

Any situation in which you are forced to participate in unwanted, unsafe, or degrading sexual activity is sexual abuse. Forced sex, even by a spouse or intimate partner with whom you also have consensual sex, is an act of aggression and violence. Furthermore, people whose partners abuse them physically and sexually are at a higher risk of being seriously injured or killed.

It is still abuse if…
The incidents of physical abuse seem minor when compared to those you have read about, seen on television, or heard other women talk about. There isn’t a “better” or “worse” form of physical abuse; you can be severely injured as a result of being pushed, for example.
The incidents of physical abuse have only occurred one or two times in the relationship. Studies indicate that if your spouse/partner has injured you once, it is likely he will continue to physically assault you.

The physical assaults stopped when you became passive and gave up your right to express yourself as you desire, to move about freely and see others, and to make decisions. It is not a victory if you have to give up your rights as a person and a partner in exchange for not being assaulted!
There has not been any physical violence. Many women are emotionally and verbally assaulted. This can be as equally frightening and is often more confusing to try to understand.
Source: Breaking the Silence Handbook “

Hi Jan7,

Thank you for your time and your patience in helping me through this. What you write/post is extremely mind-opening for me … so much I’ve never thought of. I just can’t believe all of this is real … and happening to me. Not that I’m a saint or someone special that bad things shouldn’t happen to me, but you understand what I’m trying to say.

There’s been several other situations which have happened since I’ve last posted which, if I wasn’t convinced before that I needed to leave, I am convinced now. 100%. He is a very cruel and mean-spirited individual with an unpredictable temper. And just like you experienced, my anxiety is through the roof. Where I am walking on egg shells for me, I’m now walking on egg shells for my puppy too. It’s crazy and messed-up!

Thank you for the suggestion of writing things down as they happen. I do have what has happened in the past written down but then I quit, so it’s not up to date. I need to do this.

I would write more but need to get back to work … will write more later on tonight.

((HUGS))

Bev and all,

So Bev you have a son who is a sociopath. Having known him your while life, looking back, when did he first exhibit the signs? And were examples? Do you believe he was born this way or became this way? Do you recognize other sociopaths in the family tree? My father was an SP. I have a sister who is an SP. I have a grandmother who was an SP. My husband is an SP. I have a child who is a full blown SP. I previously recounted a story in which her second grade teacher called me in to basically tell me something was wrong with her character.

This could be quite a lengthy post. I have been trying to figure out how to answer without writing a novel.

From the minute that our son was born, there was something very different about him. He was off. He did not act like what an infant is ‘supposed’ to act like.

I will preface the rest of this post with two things. I was 19 years old, and really wanted a baby. I was very young. I wanted to be a mother in my life, and that was really all that I wanted. The other thing is, our son’s birth was a difficult one. I was on the brink of c-section after hours and hours of labor, when forceps were finally used, with the delivery doctor having his foot up on the delivery table to brace himself while he pulled. No joke. I was in complete agony…thought I would die…but, the doctor, at last (after what seemed like forever) yanked my son out. My son had a cone head for awhile afterward.

My son seemed angry from the get go (forceps maybe?) and also would not eat. When I say that, I mean it. He literally would not suck. He seemed to not want to or care to eat at all. He was not a thriver. Listless and no will to live it seemed. Breastfeeding was out of the question by day two, as he was losing weight. (He was born a normal weight of 7’8). The nurses had to force feed him for five days, until we left the hospital! Bear in mind…I was 19…when we got him home, we had no idea what to do, so, in order for him to stay alive, we also had to hold him and pour the formula down his throat and into him while he gagged, gargled, and screamed. He seemed so angry. I didn’t know babies could be angry…

BTW, to this day, he still does not enjoy food or eating…go figure, huh? We had a terrible time getting him to eat or enjoy anything at all when he was living with us even until his 7th year.

Anyway, there are so many odd behaviors to tell. He hated, and I mean detested, being with us, or any people. He preferred to stay in his room…with the door closed, and play by himself. He would literally whine until we could not stand it any more and once he was in his room where he wanted to be, we could actually hear him ‘playing’ and acting close to what may resemble, a childlike happiness. This is all too weird…to actually write it down. He also did not like going anywhere, he did not like to have fun or smile very much (and we tried, believe me). He would not walk either! If we took him for a walk, or went to a park for some family time, he would whine, cry, and then scream, and fall way behind, so that other people would ask us what was the matter with him?? Imagine if you can…he acted so pathetic to get that sort of attention from others. He always did that. It was like he did not like happiness, especially in others. My husband and I tried so hard to get him to have fun. I literally can remember NO good times with him…no Christmases, no Halloweens, no birthdays…just misery all of the time. If my husband and / or I were having fun, our son would try to put an end to it by fussing and crying and ruining it. Once we stopped having fun, our son seemed smugly satisfied.

We were at wit’s end. My husband comes from a big family…5 siblings, who all had children around the same time that we did. They were all FINE….normal. Of course, we thought that there was something wrong with us…our son was so pathetic and always tried to make other people feel sorry for him. I think we thought that others thought that we were bad parents. Too young to know what we were doing maybe. They did not live with our son, so they did not see the strangeness that was him.

When he was almost 6, he told a terrible lie about my husband. Imagine the WORST thing that you could accuse your father of. He was in daycare at the time, and another little girl had talked about this, apparently, according to the teacher there. Anyway, it had to be investigated, so the police became involved. My poor husband was interrogated. My son was adamant, but in an odd flippant way, that it was true. No trauma. Always sneering, almost smiling about the fact the he was being felt sorry for. He looked in my eyes, for weeks, telling me what his daddy did to him and not seeming particularly upset about it. I was destroyed. I knew that I had to take my son and leave my husband. Children don’t lie about these things. I could not believe it. My husband and I were so close and he was just not that type. My son was never even alone with him. I mean never. My husband did not have a fun father / son relationship due to our son’s strangeness. It just did not happen, because of our son’s demeanor. My husband did not enjoy being around our son…nor did I. I could not understand when or how it could have happened.

Upon the police investigating, and after sending our son to a psychologist, it was determined not to be true. My husband was cleared, and I still cry for him. If you knew him, he is the most kind and decent man. Not a freak like that. He no longer wanted to be around our son. I had to bathe him and feed him and do everything with him after that. Everything! Our son, today, says that he lied about it all. I read it in an email to his ex. She sent me the email where he flippantly talked about why he was ‘put into care’ by us when he was 7. That may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, but he was put into care by us for alot of his behaviors. We simply did not trust him any more. We didn’t even want to be around him. Our son just went on, as if nothing happened…killed his hamster…stole things from peoples’ yards on his way to and home from school, etc. He made a teacher cry by pushing her to the brink. IN GRADE ONE.

He was diagnosed a SP at 5 or 6 years of age. We had no idea what that meant. It was the 80s…no internet…we told nobody. I think we were in denial because we really did not know the scope of what that even meant. We buried it I think. Until this year!

That lie about my husband was the turning point for all of us. After that, things got worse. We did not trust our son, nor really even want to be around him. We knew that was not good for him or us. We placed him in care. He slid right into his new home, never crying for us, not even caring. You could not have taken me or my husband away from our parents! We would have screamed and cried…anyway, I digress. We were understandably devastated. We could not fathom how little our son cared about what was happening. He seemed excited about it, in a weird way, going to a new home. We kept in touch with the foster family the entire time that he lived there. They were wonderful people.

He was diagnosed a second time while living with them, and it was also determined that he had never been molested, by anyone. How the hell did he know enough to lie about it? Mind you, it was a vague description that he gave, but still. He must have known that my husband would get into trouble…that I would leave him…it is so hard to try and wrap my head around. Even almost 30 years later…

Anyway, I made the mistake of us reconnecting with him at age 16. He still lived in the home with the wonderful people. We saw him once or twice per year, and only brief encounters. He seemed to be flippant and not really care, but also seemed to ‘play’ the part of a son who turned out pretty great despite his life. We were not even sure if he remembered the lie that he told way back when…only, yes, he apparently did…because this year, at 33 years of age, in his email to his ex…there is was. ‘I LIED…and it was read wrong’, he said…a small sentence at the end of one of his paragraphs, making it seem trivial and virtually meaningless…jesus…

He married and had two children about 5 years ago (which I never thought that he should do…we could see that he had a problem, but literally forgot the diagnoses in the past or maybe didn’t believe them). The marriage started falling apart almost immediately, and he was lying to us about why like she was unfaithful (not true) and then I began researching somehow…about sociopathy…oh what I know now!

(BTW, when they first split, and he wanted 50/50 custody, he asked us to pay for a mediator and when we said no, he lost his shit! He thought that we should support our son and not throw him away again…pity ploy)!! That outburst and subsequent ‘freezing us out’ really opened my eyes. He felt entitled to us paying…as a matter of fact, he only really ever had anything to do with us when he wants or needs money, or something else, when I. Never just to see us or ask how WE are…

They had been seeing a counselor when things were going bad. My DIL could obviously see that it was not going to do any good with my son. He continued seeing the counselor on his own for ‘anger’ issues apparently…and guess what? He was diagnosed a THIRD TIME!! My DIL told me.

This sure explains this shit show of a life that my husband and I have had with him. Still, like I said, there is NO VINDICATION in knowing the truth. No…now we just get to strive for NO CONTACT…not what we envisioned for our lives together, that’s for sure. We know what our son is capable of, though. DESTRUCTION OF RELATIONSHIPS AND PEOPLE.

He should have never had children. I always knew it in my gut. Now, he is using them to torture his ex! He said in the email to her that he will tell the courts that she spanks them. Another HUGE LIE that he knows is not true that could possibly ruin her life…

Sorry…I got cut off! Too long of a post??

Anyway. looking back at our families, I don’t really think that there are any other SPs lurking there, but what do I know?

I want to add…we felt guilty about putting our own son into care, so when we got back together, it seemed like a goal that we should have had.

Never spending any significant amount of time with him, we thought that he was different. That he had grown up and out of whatever it was…

Well, SPs do not change. He is still the same person that he ever was.

He has shown himself to be a true SP. He still lies. He still manipulates. He still tries to play people against each other. Even my husband and myself, even now. Divide and conquer.

We don’t understand why. We are just regular decent people.

Just wanted to add that in…

Dear Bev,

What a brave act telling your story. It needed to be told. You did the right thing sending him away to foster care. That was the correct thing to do. That was the only thing to be done. I would have done the same thing. He is a danger. I’ve seen in the courts here innocent people who are looking at a lifetime in prison over a mere accusation of child molestation, no physical evidence, no witnesses, no concrete story. Just the mere accusation now sends you up the river. Arrest and indict first and maybe/maybe not sort out the truth later. Once you and your husband X him out you will be safe. I really would love to tell you you will have happiness but sometimes safety is all we can strive for. You so eloquently told your story of victimization and all the land mines you had to face. At one point, when you said that it was a digression that you and your husband could never leave your parents, it wasn’t a digression, it a main point. What normal child can leave his parents???? There are heroin addicts whose children wouldn’t leave them. Your son is going to have a long history of subjecting others to the criminal courts to get his way. Your DIL’s greatest weapon is that email in which he states he lied about the molestation. Never look to the SP for love, there isn’t any. It seems that you are still grieving for having given birth to human without a soul. It is not your fault. It’s the luck of the draw. He’s dangerous and by withdrawing your presence you are reducing his ‘respectability’ and his ability to abuse others in the future. He’ll lie and say he doesn’t have a mother. There is nothing you can do about that but at least you are not lending your presence to the fraud. He is trying to create a division between you and husband again. He wants you to be alone and isolated. For what purpose only he knows. He was willing to send your husband to prison to isolate you. He will continue to use your husband. This knowledge must be very painful. Trying to convince and warn your husband as to what lies ahead. Thank you for answering my question. You deserve to be free of him once and for all and forever.

Once again, thank you SO much for all of your understanding and kindness, becomingstrong…I feel a true friend in you.

Everything you just posted is spot on.

HIS admission of the lie, in that email to his ex is key. He had and has no explanation for why he did it because there is none. Yes, my husband and I have wracked our brains trying to figure out why he did it. When it happened, we were moving our ‘family’ to another city, in another province, far away from where we lived. Perhaps my son realized that he was losing his only ally…his grandmother, my husband’s mother, who pitied and felt sorry for him. Who let him manipulate her to no end. Who also thought that we were too young and too hard on him, as parents. We needed to leave all of that…and then, all of a sudden out of nowhere, a call from the daycare and from the police, when he cooked up that lie. Perhaps so that we would not move away from the ONLY person who bought into his bullshit? If that is so, what a conniving thing to do for an almost 6 year old. Perhaps he thought that we would not move, if my husband and I were no longer together? The mind boggles as to any reason.

And yes, you do hear grieving from me for what will never be. I have never really had a son at all. Not even for a little while. This is certainly not the life that we envisioned. We had no more children, of course. We planned on more than one, but after all of that, well…

You know, in another email from my DIL, HE had copied her on it to his counselor, he stated that his ‘foster’ father had given him a bit of money for his first Christmas, alone, separated. with his kids…only thing was, it was MY husband who put the $500 in his bank account because he had been whining about how broke he was…this after yelling at us for not paying for the mediator. I told my husband not to even acknowledge Christmas, but he could not help himself…he even lies to his counselor…talks nothing of us, his REAL parents…like we do not even exist. I can only imagine the lies he has told her about why we put him into care. She likely believes that we are terrible people, so he cannot tell her that his real father ‘made’ his Christmas happen. That would reveal something that he probaly contradicted already…so, yeah, I likely do not exist any more in his eyes.

That is just fine with me.

Thank you again for listening and reading my ‘novel’. I tried to keep it as short as I possibly could 🙂

I just have to respond MORE to your wonderful post.

It is like I gave birth to someone without a soul. I do grieve for that. For myself…not for him any more. There isn’t ANY love in him…not for we his REAL parents, not for his foster parents, not for his ex, not for his own children…not for anyone. There is nothing there but a black hole.

I do feel as if, if I stay in his life, that it condones any future behaviors of HIS and I will not do that.

That lie destroyed me. When I think back, I do not even know how I (or we) even made it through it all. It was indescribable what my husband and I went through. And to think that I might have left my husband for that black hole…my god. I would not be alive now. It would have been such a colossal mistake that I might have been driven to do something dire, like suicide, once I realized what my son was.

I will not lend my presence to the fraud that is my son. I can’t do that. He still does try to create a division between my husband and myself…almost 30 years later! He is a sick little worm.

It makes me cry for my husband whenever I think about the past, and I always do. HE has continued to try to use my husband for whatever he can get out of him. My husband is Mr Empathy, so he has played right into our son’s hand many a time. He is seeing…but he still can’t let go like I have. My husband giving HIM money this past Christmas, because he thought he needed it for the kids, nearly killed me inside. It opened the door AGAIN. New Year’s day, our son was in our town, because he and the NEW girlfriend had attended a party at one of HER friend’s house (funny that…pick a girl who has friends three hours away, in our town). He texts my husband and says ‘wanna meet for lunch’…my husband texts back and says ‘sure’…innocent enough…NOT.

I quietly flipped out (I did not want to upset my husband but I was furious, afraid, hateful…etc). I told my husband that I would NOT go with him. That I would NOT meet any new person in our son’s life. He is still going through a messy split and custody battle for shit’s sake! My husband understood. He went. I stayed home. He was gone about an hour as they had to drive back home so that he could pick up his children for the rest of the weekend. I came to find out, btw, from my DIL, that he was supposed to have the kids that whole weekend, but wanted to go to the New Years eve party…loser. Anyway, husband comes home and I say that I do not want to know ANYTHING about their visit. He understood.

We have not heard from him since. Don’t know why. I do know that my DIL served him with child support papers and a protective order, because even tho he has a new girlfriend (that the idiot wanted us to meet), he still harasses his ex constantly. WORM. That new girl means nothing to him. He is using her to rub his ex’s nose in things. And, to make it look as if he is moving on. He will NEVER move on. I am thinking that we are not hearing from him because perhaps he knows that WE know that she served him, and when my husband asks how things are going…he has to either tell the truth, which he can’t seem to ever do…or LIE to his face.

I do not know what lays ahead…if only I could see the future.

So much of your story, the theme, isolate and devour, rings true with me. When you are the primary target and only destruction will satisfy the spath, everyone and everything is collateral damage. The foster parents were targets, he needed some place to live didn’t he and they were as good as anyone else. That you have a relationship with his children and wife is more grounds for him to use your husband. He’s going to make you pay for bringing him into this world, it’s all your fault in his mind. My spath wants me to dislike my children (he’s constantly telling me how this child or that child said this or that really negative thing about me) and then he’s doing his handy work over there with them. Isolate me is the game to end is my destruction. Mine wrote me an email and in part he stated, “You are trying your best to delay this divorce from reaching it’s logical conclusion.” He never defines what is the logical conclusion. If I applied the normal use of words it would mean end in divorce, right? Why not just say that, it will end the marriage. When he leads me to define something, word salad, it’s a trap. In his mind I am dragging the divorce through but the end is something other than what I think it should be. But now he knows I’m onto his language and so he sending me a message of sorts. I see he is sending a warning to me that only I can see, others just mentally insert “end in divorce” as the meaning for “logical conclusion”. Now what does he really have in store?

That is how this all feels…as if everything is OUR fault. Almost, like you said, for bringing him into this world in the first place. How f’ed up is that? In his mind, his whole life is our fault. I know that he feels that way.

None of this happened because of our choice or anything that we did wrong.

My son also speaks like your ex…in word salad…what does he have in store, indeed?

We cannot seem to have a relationship with our DIL nor the children, at least for now, as HE is still too involved. He would love it if we let ourselves get drawn into all of the drama that is currently happening…but we will not. If we did, HE would get what he wants again…to have all of our attention while killing us all at the same time, figuratively, of course.

We see exactly what is happening…and WE have to protect ourselves. We know that now.

I meant to say the foster parents were NOT targets

btw, he hasn’t turned in 1 financial, not one. So who is dragging what out? His interpretation of the meaning could be that I am dragging this divorce out to get my divorce, as opposed to impeding the divorce.

Geez…what a mindf+++er.

Just like my son’s view on anything. Convoluted.

Bev, thank you for sharing your heartbreaking story about your family and your son. That has to be the most shattering experience a family can go through – a father being falsely accused of abusing/molesting their child. My heart aches for you and your husband and what this son of yours has dragged you through. Such a tragedy, one that you can never truly get over.

I grew up with a sociopath – my sister, although it took me until I was 55 with the help of extensive reading on personality disorders, to understand what I was dealing with. It breaks down like this: My parents were her targeted “victims”. They had what she wanted: money. So when they were in their late 70’s she carried out a very calculated plan to become the sibling in total charge (control) of them. She began by pretending to return to Catholicism and started going to church with them on Sundays and brunch afterward. She knew The easiest way to gain my parents’ trust and loyalty was to go through the motions of practicing their religion. It was funny to watch knowing that at the same time she was fervently blessing herself with holy water, going to communion, genuflecting in front of the churchgoers (all an act), she was cheating on her live-in boyfriend with another bum she hooked up with. After my dad passed away at 81 she seized control of our elderly mother (and her sizeable assets. Not long after his funeral she dropped the religious act as it was no longer needed. It had served it’s purpose – she was seen by all my parents’ friends and family at our dad’s funeral portraying the holy daughter, which would serve to establish that she is the “good” daughter, the one to be trusted. As the family member that sees through her the most clearly, I was targeted for destruction by her. To accomplish that she had to discredit me and work to make everyone mistrust me. So the character assassination began and is still going on several years later. She has made some crazy accusations of me that are bordering on the absurd to drive a wedge between me and my mom, and the rest of the family as well. I think I have discussed some of her tactics on this site before, so I won’t bore everyone with the details. But even though I cut ties with her about 8 years ago, I still have to see her when I visit my mom. It makes it very hard to even want to make a trip (800 mi away) to visit my elderly mom. I never know what I am going to be accused of after visiting her. My sister always seems to come up with something. The hardest part for me has been my mom’s unfailing loyalty to my sister and automatic siding with her any time an accusation or dispute arises. I have resigned myself to the fact that it is out of my control and I can’t really have anything but a superficial relationship with my elderly mother now. I can’t tell her where my son will be doing his rotations for medical school – my sister would just LOVE to sabotage his future career. I can’t tell my mom anything about either of my kids or my husband. I have learned that it will somehow be used against me and my family. So my sister’s plan has worked pretty well so far, and I haven’t been able to convince anyone of her evil agenda. No one understands or “gets” it. I just have to sit back and watch it play out. Once my mother passes away I think that will be the end of my having to deal with my sister altogether. I sure do hope so anyway. I can finally close the wound and forget she exists. Sorry if my comment is kind of rambling…

Bev, I understand the pain you have endured as a mother dealing with your son. It is such a heart wrenching story and so sorry you had to go through that. I wish there was a way to erase your pain, but anyone whose life has been touched by a sociopath knows that the pain never goes away, we just learn to live with it.

The foster parents that took in your son…from what you described they were being used by him for the purpose of triangulation. In other words, proving that it is YOU that are the problem, since the foster parents think he’s just a misunderstood angel. The games and manipulation sociopaths use are endless and tiresome to a normal person. But it helps to understand the motive behind their actions – everything points to their agenda.

Thank you, Wounded1, for also sharing your story.

How sad and tragic for us. It does seem like the pain never stops. Just when I think ‘I got this’…I get devastated all over again.

I do not know how my husband and myself even survived all of this. We have been together for 40 years! We met at 14 and 15 years of age. We should have had some great kids…but it was never to be. I am over that part. That ship sailed long ago. Now, it is just old wounds that don’t seem to ever heal.

Your sister is almost too surreal to be true. Do you ever feel that way? Some of the things that SPs do are unfathomable. Most of the things. It is beyond screwed up. I can’t even talk about my son to people that I meet. It is simply too unbelievable for people to take in.

I have had people ask me, ‘why would your son say that about his father’ ‘children don’t lie’…my son is living freaking proof, that they can, in fact, lie. Why did he do it? It will haunt us forever. It is too devastating and evil to simply just get over it happening. I have been asked that, before as well. ‘Can’t you just forgive, and forget, and move on’? Then, I start to feel like a bad person again…not wanting anything to do with my own son.

Yes, it has been a heartbreaking shattering experience. I just wish that the pain would end or just disappear…but it never really does, completely. What helps more than anything is having NO CONTACT in any way, shape. or form, with our son. It is the only thing that helps at all. There is no alternative.

HIS foster parents were wonderful people, however, they are of the opinion that he is the way that he is because we put him into care. It’s like they have forgotten WHY we did it. We told them everything. They, in turn, had him reassessed with the same diagnosis. I do not understand what they are thinking. They have fostered many children, and also had 5 of their own, so I think that they simply believe that one can ‘love’ things away.If you love enough, everything will be fine. Our son uses them as well, and has badmouthed them to us and his ex on many occasions. I always chastised him for that when we had contact with him. I can only imagine what he says about us…

Yes, it seems HIS agenda is to appear ‘normal and good’ in other peoples’ eyes. He is exactly the opposite of those things. People who don’t know him very well, think that he is a great guy. If they get to know him, and not many people do because he slips in and out of lives quite fast, then they don’t like him. I know that his foster family knows that there is something wrong with him. They just won’t admit it. Perhaps it means failure, for them, if they do? Who knows. They could not ‘help’ or ‘fix’ him either, sort of thing, perhaps.

I am sorry for what you and we have been through. It literally sucks. We are on this site, though, helping each other, and that is something good, right?

Thank you for hearing me. I hear you too.

Bev,

Your story is so important and powerful. It speaks to lies, the damage lies create and just because they are six doesn’t make it true. You and your husband survived this terrible tradegy and you saw your son for what he was. You and your husband went on and made a life together. Not the life you imagined but a life, with a loving man. The dreams that we had when the SP came into our lives which spiral into a never-ending nightmare, resulting in us in the gutter. We become find ourselves becoming labeled, pointed at, things are said that do not reflect us as people but rather the SP’s destruction of our good names. We hold our head up high in the wake of this, because we know the truth. It is always easier to place blame on the victim of the Spath when the Spath does not target the blamer.

That is so true, becomingstrong. So true.

We envisioned our lives completely different that they have turned out.

We still have to do the best that we can with what we’ve got.

Our children, if disordered to not have to be the be all end all in our lives. Sometimes, we just have to walk away.

Or RUN Bev.

Yes…RUN.

Hi Diane111, just checking on you to see how you are doing.

Hi Jan7!! I think we got lost amongst the various blogs. Glad we’re back in touch. Not sure if I posted the following or not … it was still on my laptop, and I usually delete once I post.

You are such a lifeline for me, Jan7! ((HUGS))

You are SO fortunate to be out of your spath marriage!! I cannot wait for the day that I will be able to help someone on LF get through what I’m currently going through ” give them support and encouragement and guidance because I survived 

O.N.Ward’s questions (earlier post) were very eye-opening for me ” well, more so, my answers to the questions. Got me to thinking and this mind-fog I’ve been in has started to clear. And NotWhatHeSaidofMe (earlier post) provided me with things to think about too which are keeping me on the right path. There’s hope for me yet!

I am being as careful as I possibly can be ” I know I have to be. The reading, that’s not on my Kindle, I keep at work in my desk. I get an hour for lunch, so I close my office door and sit at my desk and read. I search out anything and everything that will help maintain my sanity and give me the strength to persevere. I just started reading “Why does he do that” plus I’ve read two of Donna’s book, I do have my exit plan in place 

I do plan on contacting someone to schedule phone counseling and maybe even an actual session or two. Although LF and the support group here are extremely helpful to me, I believe I could benefit from actual one-on-one conversations ” that human contact, I guess you could say.

I went up to my house last night and did some work ” loved it. I was happy and relaxed and envisioned me being there all the time. Did a lot of praying there too. Looking forward to the “mental peace”.

Oh, remember when I told you about checking his iPad, where I could see his text messages??? Well, guess who changed his password??!! He definitely is playing games with me ” and with my mind.

Right now, I’m feeling very strong mentally, but tomorrow I fear he’ll do or say something that will make me confused again. I’ll never be free from this mind-craziness living with him.

Thanks, Jan ”

RE: “The biggest reason why you didn’t trust your instincts was probably because you didn’t know that sociopaths existed.”

There were far more reasons than that. Such as:

She had an instant explanation for everything.

Her “friends” would always back up her stories.

When you have an active sex life, it is difficult to believe that your “soulmate” could possibly be cheating on you with several other people. – Even when you have solid evidence of it.

Bev, thank you for your thoughtful post. You point out one of the most alienating aspects of having to deal with a sociopath in your statement: “Your sister is almost too surreal to be true. Do you ever feel that way? Some of the things that SPs do are unfathomable. Most of the things. It is beyond screwed up. I can’t even talk about my son to people that I meet. It is simply too unbelievable for people to take in.”

That is so very true. I find that I can only confide in one close friend and my husband about my socio sister because it almost makes me feel like I am being perceived as crazy just by sharing it. If someone has never experienced similar “crazy” they just don’t relate to it and have a very hard time believing it. They are more likely to think I am a little off and maybe even lying or making things up. So it makes me withdraw and not talk about the sociopath at all with others. But the pain from the abuse is still very real and ongoing.

The worst pain for me is not being able to have a normal close relationship with my elderly mom because she is close to socio sis. I can’t share anything with her that I don’t want socio sis to know and later use as ammunition against me. So I have had to emotionally withdraw and not have a real honest relationship with my mom, which has been tough. I feel very detached from her and the rest of my family of origin. The “divide and conquer” measures my sister has used have been pretty effective in isolating me. But not much I can do except just move on and live my life. After all, how much does my mom really care about me anyway, when any complaints I have against my sister are ignored and flat-out denied? My only choice is to stop caring one way or the other.

That’s is how I feel as well. I have had to withdraw from certain people in my husband’s family, because they could never believe that one of ‘their family’ has a big enough problem that actually harms other people. That has a big enough problem that his own mother would ‘want’ nothing to do with him. That is how they look at it, too. Like it is MY problem…that I am the one who can’t deal with a son that is simply different or misunderstood. Poor him.

The lasting effects of this life are so real and painful. They just keep coming, in many different forms.

Meeting new people is sort of a no go for me as well. There is always that inevitable question…do you have any children? I never want to say yes, because then, the second question comes…and the third…and so on. How many questions in do I have to reveal that I have no contact with him…and then, why?? That’s when the ‘crazy’ comes into things, and, well, I just do not put myself ‘there’ any more.

My son’s antisocial personality disorder had inadvertently, made ME antisocial…more convoluted clusterf***…

Hi Bev,
Always comforting to find you posting. I read your reply to wounded. I think your within your rights to tell people you don’t have a son. I too don’t know how to answer the simplest questions, how old are they, what school do they attend? How do I answer that? My life has been in embers for a long time and I just am going to pick up and leave town when all is said and done. Battling just to be divorced has spiraled into so many sub battles all draining and costly. Fighting for one inch of ground I liken to the Battle of the Bulge. I think it’s good to know who you can lean on and trust and go forward carrying less of a load.
Update: I found an attorney after meeting with 1 very unscrupulous one. Boy was that energy depleting experience (the things you are subjected to when you are involved with a spath). Renewed energy and cautiously optimistic about my new attorney. Hope you are well.

Oh, becomingstrong, that is wonderful that you are optimistic about your new attorney!

Yes, the things that we are subjected to being involved with a spath. Things you aren’t even expecting that seem to come out of nowhere!

I often want to say that I have no children, but it is difficult for me to even tell a lie like that! Silly me…I can’t help but be truthful.

One thing I do know for sure is that HE has never felt like what a son should ‘feel’ like. No son of mine would do the things that he does or stoop as low as he does. That actually comforts me, in a weird way. He is not a product of me!

So happy to hear about your new attorney. May this person turn everything around the way that it should be!!

Bev,
I looked up the word disown. I can’t figure out how to post it. I think to refuse to acknowledge your son isn’t lying. Now if the question is “did you give birth?”- That would be different. Decide what is best for you. I know I would have no problem.

Yes…I only gave birth…that is for certain.

Have I ‘had’ a child? Yes. Do I have a child…NO.

Yes Bev that’s right. Do you have a son? No

Yes…no son.

I’m having difficulty finding my own story on here . One reader was especially helpful when I posted my story and I would like to review what she wrote . Perhaps someone can tell me how to go back to my own story so that I can review her comments ?Thank you .

This question about how to find my comments is all that pops up . I wrote in ” Tell Your Story ” section

Hi Diane111, your welcome hon. We have all been exactly were you are…feeling stuck in the situation not understanding why we cant escape. For me like I have shared I felt like my h (now ex) put a bird cage over my head to control my mind from thinking freely.

Throw in the anxiety & depression from our bodies dealing with the daily stress that the sociopath creates it’s no wonder when you are in their tornado we can only think about surviving each day and not think about escaping.

The fear of escape is scary…the sociopath has manipulated our brains so much with all their mind games that we are afraid of being alone and also fear the outside world. Once strong now we are fearful of the outside world.

But I can tell you that it only takes a short time to adjust back towards loving your freedom. Yes their is work to sort out our minds & that takes time. But Once I found out from a counselor exactly who my h was I was DONE with him…

I had my answers to what I was praying for = why my h behaved the way he did. The other answer was he was NEVER EVER going to change! Once I grasp this I was done, done, done!! My up bringing myth about marriage was “Marriage is hard work” what I know now is NO marriage is not hard work if you are with a normal person it is just work. But with a sociopath it’s hardwork really it’s just HELL. Their daily mood swings, their mind games, their cheating, lying, manipulation etc is hard work to deal with this is why escaping is the only way to have a normal health life.

Diane, no one is a “Saint” not even the Saints 🙂 . We all make mistakes…we all at times might not treat some as nicely as we should but the BIG difference is a normal person like you & me (& others here) will look back at the situation and realize that we could have handled that particular situation better…a normal person can look inside and make corrections. A sociopath can not do this their brains do not function like ours. They have no introspective ability.

DO NOT hold on to your mistakes hon…think about what you would have done differently…grow from your mistakes and then release them. I like the saying “WHEN WE KNOW, BETTER WE DO BETTER” so now you know how to do things better. & you will do things better in the future.

DIANE YOU ARE SOMEONE SPECIAL!! REMEMBER THIS. (read that a few more times!!!)

EVERY GOOD PERSON HAS SOMETHING THAT THEY BRING TO THE TABLE….EVERY GOOD PERSON LIKE YOU!! You have great qualities but your husband has manipulated you with his mind games to make you feel worthless, to make you feel that you can not survive without him. YOU are not worthless & you can & will survive without him.

Diane your mind is opening up to the reality of your life…you are seeing your husband for who he is…you are slowly taking the rose colored glasses off to see the true reality of your marriage. THIS IS A GOOD THING….it’s scary to do this…it’s scary to think that you are with a extremely dangerous man. IT’s easier for us to stay in our safe mindset of just walking on egg shells then to see the truth. But like the old saying states “THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE”!!!!

Focus on the truth. Take time to see your husbands true behavior without the rose color glasses on. Dont engage in a fight with him when you see his behavior…bite your tongue for your safety & call the abuse center counselor to help you with your EXIT PLAN out.

YES, the sociopath will have their victims all walking on egg shells with each other…you are in protection mode for your sweet puppy but you have to keep seeing thing for how they truly are & escape the hell that you and your puppy are enduring.

It’s “crazy & messed up” how the sociopath can control us as if we are little kids being controlled by our parents to act proper. Yet the sociopath wants us to act like adults all the other times i.e. responsible for the bills, the house cleaning, the food on the table etc etc. I look back and can not believe that I allowed myself to be treated this way.

But like someone wrote in their great main post it is like a frog being put in a pot of water…if the water was boiling the frog would jump out instead the sociopath slowly turns up the temperature of the pot of water (control level) and the frog has no idea their life is in grave danger….same with us victims the sociopath slowly turns up the control level and then we just adjust to their craziness to survive each day. If the sociopath drop his mask the first time we met them guess what we would have RUN FAST away instead they do it slowly with gas lighting & pity play manipulation.

I think writing things down is a huge plus because we start to see the sociopaths pattern of behavior…we have to remember that our minds are in survival mode when living with a sociopath so we can think about these patterns we see them but we can connect the dots…when you write them down you clearly see the dots connected.

PAT YOURS SELF ON THE BACK DIANE…you are doing your homework & it is opening your mind up slowly to what you are living in everyday = hell. THIS IS GREAT DIANE…so give yourself a huge high five. Little steps = RUNNING FAST AWAY.

Give your sweet little puppy a big hug from me…and tell him to give you a big hug from me too 💜

Chat with you tomorrow. 🌴

Hey Jan7,

You truly are my LF BFF 🙂

I do bite my tongue, more times than not. Like I said in an earlier post, he’s trained me … conditioned me, to not go up against him, BUT he has in no way won!!

Last night before he went to work, there was another incident with the puppy. Totally understand that the puppy needs to be trained, etc., BUT my h is not “training”, he is being abusive. His anger and meanness is out of control. After the incident, he left to go to work (thank the Good Lord)(he works the 12-hour DuPont shift). Anyways, as soon as he pulled out of the driveway, my adrenalin kicked in and I was on a mission! I was SO angry at him and how he treated the puppy … I needed to escape … to run! I packed up a lot more of my things into boxes and bags and took them to my house. I truly cannot wait to be there full-time! When I got back, I continued to put stuff in order, making a list, room-by-room, of what is mine so when that time comes, I’m organized and the move can be quick! I’m still in safety-mode … watching what I say and do … being careful, but I can feel the day is quickly approaching.

I’m pretty sure I told you this before, but when I put my name in for the puppy, I knew the puppy would be ready in January. I was so positive that I would be out of there by then … in my house … right after Christmas, and it would be me and the puppy. When I realized that no, I wasn’t going to be out of there … that I was still stuck in my mental hell … I knew the puppy would have to come live with both of us. I then starting thinking the way you did with your cat, “the puppy is going to get accustomed to his house and his yard, etc., I won’t be able to take the puppy with me and I can’t leave the puppy behind”. I really started to think and believe that my choice to get the puppy just added to my situation … to keep me from leaving … to keep me chained to my h. I berated myself for being so stupid. “Now what are you going to do Diane!” Little did I know that in a two week time frame, this puppy would come to actually be what saves me … and him.

My h has been verbally and emotionally abusive with me but never physical. However, not only is he being verbally and emotionally abusive to puppy, he’s being physical. This scares the hell out of me. My leaving is imperative now more than ever.

I’ll be back in touch later tonight or tomorrow. ((HUGS)) to you Jan 7!!

Diane111,
Hi there.
I logged in to see how Terry, Donna’s husband is doing and am so happy to hear he is doing well!
I saw your post and remember some of your posts from awhile back and see you are about to move out.
Great news.
Just wanted to let you know that we are all here for you.
Also you mentioned you are looking for some counseling, great idea!
I know Donna does consultations, given Terrys health IDK if she is doing the now but I did a consult with her awhile back and was very helpful.
I pray for your safe move.
Does he know about it?
Please stay safe.
The National Domestic Violence website has some info about a safe exit plan.
Please let us know you are safe.
Hugs,
Stronginthecity

Stronginthecity, thank you for posting to Diane. Great post.

Jan7,
Thank you!
Right back at you, your posts are always amazing.
Thank you, thank you and thank you for all of your support to me and everyone else here.
Blessings to you,
Stronginthecity

Hi Stronginthecity!
How sweet of you to reach out and check on me and offer your continued support. You have no idea what that did for me … how that made me feel. Brought to tears to my eyes .. just knowing I’m not alone and that there are people who are there for me and totally understand what I’m thinking and feeling and going through. Thank you!
I do plan on contacting Donna. I need someone who can listen and give me guidance and strength, and she would be that person.
Definitely, I will keep in touch on here as this all plays out so no one worries.
Hugs,
Diane111

Diane111,
I am always thinking of my LF sisters.
I hope you are staying strong and as clear headed as possible going through this.
We are here for you, please be safe.
Hugs,
SITC

Diane111,
You are blessed to have the support of your family and friends.
That support is immeasurable!
You can do this and will be just fine.
I love that you are talking about what you plan to do after the move…Moving on with life!!!
Love it!
Stronginthecity

Hi Diane111, you have chosen to see your husband as he truly is…this is a BIG BIG step Diane. I am proud of you for taking action while he was at work. Silence in this case IS golden!!

Please remember that you do not have to move alone…ask your sister & most trusted friends to help you. You have a list that you can give to them the day you want to leave him. They can help pack each room up for you. Team work is the best action.

Give yourself a HUGE pat on the back Diane!! Great thinking on your part (again!!).

I am sorry that your sweet puppy is getting abused makes me sad. But I am so glad that he has a wonderful mom (you) who is going to give him (her?) the most amazing life!!

Yes, It’s really amazing how our own minds play tricks on us…to stay in a abusive marriage…looking back I realized that my sweet kitty was living in a very stressful environment because of my ex. It saddens me when I look back and realize that she would have naturally adjusted to her new home had I left then. Just like your sweet puppy will adjust to his new home & yard & neighborhood. Dogs are much more easy going in new environments then cats. So I have no worries that your sweet puppy will be happy go lucky as long is he is with you 🐕🌲

I just want to remind you of a few thinks that I posted for you:

1) the most dangerous time for a woman living in a abusive relationship is when she is ready to leave or has left. This is why it is imperative that you have help from your local abuse center for a Safety Plan. I know it is difficult for you to go to your local abuse center so please call them and talk to them about a Safety Plan.

2) Think about installing a home security system in your new home. I would highly recommend if you can afford it to higher a company that will install it and also monitor the alarm system meaning if the alarm goes off they will call you at home to see if every thing is ok or they will call the police. If you can not afford that type of security then look into a security system that takes battery and are very easy to install. You can find these types at your local hardware store or a large store like Home Depot or Lowes they start around $100 for a full system and about $15 per door for individual window/door purchase.

3) Tell your family and most trusted friends exactly what you are planning. Have them do daily wellness checkin calls to you several times a day when not at work. That way if you do not talk to them they can call the police if they feel something is not right for your safety.

4) Remember that when anyone has a breakup our bodies release high levels or cortisol & adrenaline. This is the anxiety that we feel. When you live with a sociopath you already have extremely high levels of cortisol & adrenaline levels in your body but when you leave guess what they WILL go through the roof. So talk to your doctor about what you are planing to do and how you can deal with the stress level you will be under. When you leave have a cortisol levels test conducted by a endocrinologist see sites like Adrenalfaitgue. org & Dr Lam.com for more info.

The stress level when you leave can be scary & over whelming to deal with along with all the emotions that will be coming up so just know that any time you can call the National Domestic Violence hotline & also your local center to talk with a counselor. Remember you have suppressed you feeling for years and they will be coming up so talk them out with a counselor and write your thoughts down.

Donna has written articles about how common it is for victims of abuse to grab a few glass of wine or drugs RX or not to calm themselves down but it is better to go to a specialist to help you naturally to calm your body down so that you do not end up with an addiction of any kind.

5) If your remember in your original post Donna of love fraud suggest that you go away for your safety. So if you can do this then do it. IF you can not then see if you can stay at a friends or family members home for your safely. Be sure to let them know that they will need to call the police if he comes by their home. Vacation with friends maybe??

6) MOST IMPORTANT FOLLOW YOUR GUT!!!

I can not stress this enough. When you are under the sociopaths mind control we do not listen to our gut alarms going off but when you leave you MUST listen to your gut…that little voice that is telling you he is say walking in your back yard at night listen to it and call the police immediately. Tell them that you just left your abusive husband and ask them to include your home on their nightly watch.

7) KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!

This is a huge step when you first leave. While living under the sociopath we fall into two realms one that we become dependent on our mate because of their manipulating but also we become isolated and forget to ask for help. ASK FOR HELP it is ok…it is ok to reach out in your time of need. Down the road when you are healed you too will help others.

I am proud of you Diane. Be proud of yourself!!! 💜

Take care. Chat with you tomorrow 💜

Hi Jan7,

The time and thought you put in to your comments to me are so very much appreciated and make such a positive impact on me. You make me feel emotionally strong, understood and good about myself. I AM proud of what I’ve accomplished so far  I do hope one day to help others as you have helped and continue to help me.

Your reminders above will definitely be adhered to ” safety being the main one. I have and continue to cover my steps. I have looked at security systems and will be getting one installed. My family is aware of everything and will be there, not only to help move, but to check on me. My one friend’s main role is to keep me emotionally intact so I don’t lose it with the stress OR question my gut-instincts. I wish my h would go somewhere for a few days ” would make this move so much easier and less stressful, BUT I’m going to have to do this while he’s at work. At least he works 12 hours shifts versus 8. Another downfall to this is that his two brother live right next door ” won’t be able to do this very covertly. And no need to be concerned with drugs (prescription or otherwise), but I do like wine 😉 ” BUT truly no worries there either ” my grandchildren keep me grounded ” LOVE them with all my heart. I’ll become addicted to renovating my house, working in my gardens, walking my dog, taking mini-trips with the kids, visiting my family, etc. My addiction will be LIFE!

Last night was uneventful. Quiet. Calm. But as you know, this doesn’t last very long. And even though it was uneventful, I was still on edge waiting for something to happen” you’re never at ease ” never relaxed. I stopped at a local store and picked up some things the puppy will need at his new home. We will be SO happy and relaxed there ” no more eggshells 

Okay ” back to work I must go. Will chat again tomorrow.

((HUGS))
Diane

Hi Diane111, I am glad that you are emotionally stronger by my words. So many lifted me up after I left my h after finding out the truth from a counselor and without them I would have been lost. So I am glad that my words are helping you.

You are doing so many right things to start your new life. POWERFUL!! I am so glad that you have a strong friend who knows to help keep you emotionally intact and reminds you to follow your gut…what a blessing to have this friend in your corner.

I want you to know that you can always call your local police station ahead of your move & ask them it they could come to the home while you are moving out. This process happens office you can also have your local abuse center assist you with this process. So know that you have protection from your h brother’s and also know that if your h is called while moving out you have the police there to intervene and keep the process calm should he show up while you are moving.

Glad that you have your grandchildren to keep you smiling & your sweet puppy too 💜no doubt each will help you to heal.

No more egg shells….one of the things that I often read after someone has left and had time to process everything they endured is they always say that it is so nice not to be walking on egg shells all day home. PEACE is a blessing. You will have this blessing soon also.

Your puppy is going to LOVE his new home…and all the nice things you bought for him. Look out though he is going to reward all your love with big sloppy kiss LOL 🐕😋

Huge hugs to you. Chat with you tomorrow. Take care.

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