By | August 14, 2012 53 Comments

Woman tells her story of marriage to radio personality Jeff Rense

Melinda Jane Kellogg holds a Ph.D. in physics. Jeff Rense has an alternative radio program. Kellogg listened to the program for more than two years, and then, on Rense’s birthday, sent him a “Happy Birthday” email. He responded, they corresponded, they visited, they married. It didn’t turn out as Kellogg expected, and she tells the whole story—complete with documentation—on her website.

Visit Melinda Jane Kellogg

Link supplied by two Lovefraud readers.

UPDATE: More of the story is available on 

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This just makes me feel sick, literally.

Donna, thank you so much for posting this horrible story of manipulation and crazymaking.

I want to say that this type of behavior (Jeff’s, that is) shoudl be treated as criminal behavior. Seriously.

And, I also believe that “no-fault” divorce needs to be abolished in every State. If there were a clear understanding that dissolving a contract of marriage didn’t simply consist of “I don’t want to be married to you, anymore,” and that punitive consequences would result from bad behaviors, these types of cons and abuse wouldn’t be rewarded with a simple wave of the Judge’s hand and a, “Now, go have a nice life.”

As I’ve been posting my feelings of desperation, fear, and dspair, I’ve been reading some good, strong, and truthful feedback. I’m beginning to feel angry. I’m angry that bad behaviors are not recognized as deliberate and malicious machinations. I’m angry that so many men, women, and children are thoroughly damaged because our system is broken.

Once again, Donna, you’ve posted something that I needed to read when I needed to read it.

Brightest blessings

Ox Drover

Boy oh boy! Does this woman get it! GET IT IN SPADES!

I hope that there are more and more women and men who “get it” who put up web sites that will help others just as LoveFraud has, so that the word gets out, seeps out, then floods out!

Sometimes I think that just ONE voice “crying in the wilderness” like John the Baptist isn’t heard much, but a choir of voices “singing the same song” about psychopaths may prove to be heard by more people BEFORE they end up totally hooked by the abusers and can escape more quickly, or having been totally hooked and discarded or escaped, can find people to extend a hand to them, allowing them to know they are NOT alone.


It sounds like Melinda Jane Kellogg had a crash course in psychopathy, making her head spin. She had the ultimate education, having experienced the insanity that comes courtesy of these disordered types (Melinda lived it all in a very short period of time). It’s amazing that she didn’t completely unravel mentally. I hope that she is able to rebuild her life, becoming stronger and better than ever.


I am Melinda Kellogg. I found that my story was posted here as I had quite a few hits to my webpage from this URL.

The first 3 comments were so heartwarming, as I am usually blamed for my situation and criticized, and then in the next 2 comments, what do you know, I am blamed for my situation and criticized…

Please read my whole story. I explain exactly why I was unable to leave when I first discovered I’d married a Dr. Jekull/Mr. Hyde.

I am currently so ill I am bedridden. I have no family to help. The ex-wives have never offered to take me in. I have no where to go.

There was no restraining order UNTIL the officers showed up to serve it – THAT is why I had to keep him from leaving and talked to him through a window.

Please do not attack a woman who has literally been destroyed by a psychopath – I never knew they existed until this. Your attacking of me is extremely hurtful.

Thank you for the compassion shown to me by the first three commenters.



IMHO: if a person continues to engage the devil,
are they not making their own choices?

I made the choice, for years, to stay bonded with the
animal that has devoured MY LIFE through manipulation.
I know what that is all about and up until now, I had
always prided myself in being able to ‘read’ someone
pretty well. I never saw this coming. I was completely
blind sided and ‘in love’. Yah, right: it was all lies. Lies
that I sucked right into.

I made the choice to walk away from the lies and the twisted sickness. I am happy you made the choice too, Melinda.
I am sorry you are ill coming through this too! I had a major heart attack right in the midst of being stalked for going on ten years by an obsessed psychopath. It has been hard climbing out of the hole.

I have lived with death threats, all kinds of verbal abuse, cyber stalking, you name it.
It took me a couple years to plug the holes but seems to be working great NOW.
Today marks the beginning of two weeks there has not been an incident.
I am absolutely amazed.

However, I am not easily tricked into a false sense of
being safe, at no time, no how, no way. I know what
I have dealt with.

I wish you well with your health Melinda.
I am sorry you feel criticized. You aren’t.
Least not by me. I will pray for you on your journey.

Hang in there and keep the faith that all things do work
out, sooner or later, the way they are meant to be.

If you already KNOW your hand is going to get burned
when you thrust it into the fire, why would you continue
perpetuating the source of the ugliness is exactly right.
That is why I withdrew myself from the emotional stance
in all of this and now am using logic to sift through the
remnants. LOGIC as “I” see it and not as the ppath does.

I completely DO understand how that ‘mind control’ works,
Melinda. Absolutely. I liken it to the same kind of control
that Charles Manson had over his followers.

We aren’t victims any more.
We are survivors, Melinda.

Be well ~



I have been bedridden since Dec 2011, the trauma destroyed my adrenal glands.

Sorry you don’t understand, thank you for insulting me more.

Boards like this offer more sadism just like my abuser heaps on me.

I wish someone would remove this post. This is very cruel to subject me to this.


I cannot get any medical care. I fall through all the safety net programs. Most friends cannot deal with the intensity of my situation. I have very no one to call.

A new development is some cousins may let me move in with them in New Hampshire, this will be my first offer of help. I will leave.

I have never chosen to stay with him. I literally had no where to go. Sorry you don’t understand


mindy: sorry you took offense to my post.
no offense was intended at all.

I, myself, had been bed ridden from my heart surgeries,
for almost two years. I am JUST NOW starting to get
myself and my health back together.

I don’t understand? Hm?
What about the two years I have been hiding in
the shadows, trying to duck murder attempts?
That’s not understanding?

I don’t understand what it is like being physically sick and right on the verge of dying from medical issues and dealing with a psychopath all at the same time; hm?

I never intended any insult to you at all. Everyone here on this board knows that is not me at all. Perhaps you are looking for a spat? This is not the place for a spat because we all help one another here, whether we like the words or not, sometimes. If I had not found this board, I probably would not be sitting here breathing and writing this to you.
If you are not happy with what goes on here, I am sorry and don’t know what to tell you but it sure beats NOTHING which is just about what survivors like us usually find in the way of back up in the world.
We find that back up and validation here.

I lived for a year without medical care after my heart attack and two subsequent surgeries. I begged, borrowed and STOLE my life back. The end hospital bill was $196,000 dollars. With no insurance. I think perhaps you are over reacting to my post. I am sorry YOU are so judgmental of people you don’t even know. We all have our own stories which deserve respect. We are all survivors now. We stop being the victim the moment we realize we are being made a victim.

The road of the psychopath MUST end.
We must help it cease the perpetuation in our lives.
It isn’t something we can purchase, borrow or steal.
It’s inside of us.

Take care of yourself.
I will pray for you and your journey.


kim frederick

Mindy, I do get it. I get it because I left my family and friends to move to another State to be with my Xhusband after knowing him for only 5 months…six weeks of those he was at sea…I brought two young daughters with me, and as soon as I was in his lair, he began critisizing, belittling and beating me up.
All these things….the idealization….the promise of the great love of one’s life, and then the betrayal…the falling through of that promise, and the confusion and the need to understand what happened, the willingness to take the blame in order to preserve the belief in him, and then the gas-lighting and the dread D and D, along with the extreme power imbalance, creates the “trauma bond” that is essentially an addiction.
YOU ARE BOTH ADDICTED to the drama and chaos, and you are feeding the fire…as long as you continue to play this game thinking you will have revenge, or whatever it is that is driving you, you are under his thumb. Sorry, but you are encouraging this hyper drama-rama, perhaps unwittingly…..when you get sick and tired enough of being sick and tired, you’ll chose no contact. Rest assured, it hasn’t been a pleasant or easy chopice for any of us. Most of us hung on through the shit, and then hung on through the fight, thinking we could emerge the victor in the fray….ah, no. Not worth the wasted energy.
I think the folks here are just wondering why you continue to fight….it seems irrational after all you’ve told us.
Wishing you the best.



I’ve read parts of your website. I’m sorry you got involved with a psychopath and bedridden because of it; I’m sorry for anyone ever getting involved with them and having to go through so much pain.

You are still very very raw. I understand the attempt to expose him for what he did. I exposed the spath on websites meant to do this. I never faulted myself for doing that, but at some point in my healing process I realized that it only meant I created some type of bond toward him still, which by then I wanted gone. At the same time I started being contacted left and right by his enablers and eventually himself to get rid of it. And I held on to it some longer because I was not removing it after attempts of manipulation and threats. Eventually I told him I’d consider deleting it if he asked me personally and most of all politely, and he had only one chance to do so before I’d block his email. He grabbed the chance, and ever since he’s been out of my life, and I think for good.

Anyway, I completely understand the primal motivation to expose him, especially since he’s a public figure. But I do think you are sabotaging your own healing this way. I also found it very painful for yourself how you feel the need to display all of your life. Not that you have anything to be ashamed of, but it shows how misunderstood you feel, how much you feel you have to prove yourself. Unfortunately it often has the opposite effect. The more we explain ourselves, defend ourselves, expose ourselves and hope to prove that we are sane, the more we expose ourselves for others to trample all over us again, and people will do this. It’s a boundary lesson, because when we ask people to judge our lives in this way, they will judge our lives often not positively. Instead we get empowered when we decide that we are good enough to judge our own life and the hell with those who doubt our integrity.

I wish you all the healing you need for as long as you need, physically, stressfully and emotionally! I hope you find a practical solution to move as far as you can from this creep, and most of all I wish you NO CONTACT in all its form.



Melinda’s beginning with her ex-spath, Jeff, was fast, quick. I agree that we should be supportive of her. In my opinion, this woman had a heavy-duty crash course in psychopathy, whereas, it took me years (I had red flags waving in my face along my road) to figure out that my ex-spath was disordered. I’d been somewhat “prepared” for what lay ahead, discovering the truth about him in a slow-but-sure way. She got married and, BAM, her head was starting to spin due to his craziness. I am absolutely amazed that she didn’t end up in a psych ward because everything that she experienced (in such a short period of time) was intense. Even when I learned the truth about my ex-spath (figuring out that he’s a spath), I held onto the hope that he could be helped, change, but in time, I finally accepted the fact that he is permanently damaged, no-one being able to make him well. Melinda has my sympathy.


Dear Melinda,

My heart goes out to you for what you are going through, right now. It is indeed true that you have had a very harsh, very sudden experience of the cruel betrayal by a psychopath and all that that does to a person.

And for you it happened after many years of a normal, well-adjusted, peaceful and empowered life. You certainly did not see this coming. I think these experiences are different for everyone, and yours has been very tough on you.

Some of us here are a bit further along in our journeys, or we have had different experiences. I do think that most everyone here is very well meaning in our postings. Though it does not always come across that way.

You certainly did NOT bring it on yourself. You do not deserve what has happened to you.

I can tell that you have a lot of strength in you, you always did, and you will get strong again.

I am thankful that you created your website. It helped me very much to read what you wrote. I found it very validating.

It does not matter to ME, the purpose for which you wrote it. I am grateful that you chose to. I am honored to be a witness to your sharing of your experience, and I cheer you on.

I hope you can get to a place soon where you can heal from your adrenal exhaustion/failure, and repair and restore your health and rebuild your life.

Blessings to you.


Mindy, I’m so very sorry for all you have been through and all you are going through. I wish you recovery and health beyond what you even dream for. He doesn’t deserve to take so much of your life force from you. I hope you find it in you to take it back. He is a big fish in a little pond and will probably continue to play his games and wield the power he has. I don’t know if there is any way you can take him down, but maybe just finding some way to protect yourself so you can move on. What a nightmare!

There are so many reasons why to avoid having telephone romances and e-relationships (in spite of the fact that I know several that have turned into happy marriages). Mindy, yours is the biggest reason. I am one who has always fallen fast and hard for a man, and even had one that I fell for after 6 weeks of emailing, then went to meet him. Even without the possibility of dealing with a sociopath, there is just too much room for falling in love with a fantasy. If I take anything away from your story and the stories of others here (including my own run-in with a spath), it is to get to know someone really well – in person – before getting too involved, especially before sleeping with him. It was a hard lesson to learn, but people can pretend to be anything they want. You really need to observe a person over a long period of time. Even then, you can still get duped, but at least you have a shot at seeing a few of the red flags. When people hide behind emails and telephones, they can pretend to be whatever they want.

Thanks for sharing your story.


MelindaKellogg, going “No Contact” is one of the most difficult and painful processes of recovery, and it is the first of many painful processes in healing.

The majority of the readers and posters on this site have had similar experiences to yours – sudden “love,” then immediate discard. The only way that I was able to process what I experienced was through counseling therapy with someone who “gets it.”

It is also important to recognize that people (women, particularly) who are exiting an abusive relationship typically develop chronic medical and auto-immune issues. There’s a direct correlation between negativity and physical health, and I completely understand how damaging this is because of my own health issues.

What is vital to recognize in your specific situation is that the spath has a medium to work with. All attempts to “out” him for what he’s done could result in legal catastrophe and a lifetime of continued misery – literally. Of course, you’re raw, damaged, and furious! Shouldn’t you be? Having said that, you need every bit of precious energy to devote to your personal recovery and healing.

I’m in the same situation of being homeless. I have very, very difficult decisions to make in the immediate future. My health has taken a turn for the worse as a result of my current situation, and I have a choice: deal with it, or succumb. I refuse – simply refuse – to give the exspath any more of my precious time. I also refuse to give any more of my Self (who I am) to my colleague and his g/f that I’ve been renting a room from for a while. Whatever happens, I’m out – peace, OUT!

Now, there are only 2 things in this lifetime that any human being “has to do.” That’s pay taxes, and die. In between that time, I have choices that I can make, and after spath entanglements, none of those options are warm and fuzzy – they are all difficult, painful, and wretched. So, I’m going to have to get myself out of my current situation, get into a living situation, and get help for myself through whatever local domestic violence/abuse agency there is, and heal myself. I am sick, I am tired, and I am destitute, but I’m not in today’s Obituaries, and I’ll be dammed if I am going to give the exspath the “WIN” by spending another minute of my valuable time to expose him. He’ll do that, himself. I’m not going to attempt to “warn” anyone, either, because I don’t know if I would have heeded anyone’s warning about him had I been approached.

I wish you all of the very best in your recovery and healing processes, Melinda. It’s not an “easy” task, nor is healing a comfortable process, at all. It’s painful, it’s shocking, and it’s brutal…..but, the personal epiphanies about me (who I am) have been priceless, and I am grateful that I’m no longer bonded to the exspath, regardless of what I’ve lost.

Brightest and most sincere blessings


Hell hath no fury like a sociopath “outed,” yes indeed. His response is typical, and I like your description of him as a grade-A, top notch sociopath. I might also add, “garden variety.” Maybe the big difference here is he is wealthy and famous and has a lot of force behind his push-back.

But his way of operating is totally typical and predictable. Textbook.

(in its awful ugliness)

The Liar loves his mask and will protect it at any cost (I can only imagine a wealthy and famous person would be especially tenacious about this), and hates Truth and Light and will do anything to stamp it out. And remember, they only play one game: “I win — and you lose.” That is one of the very hard things about standing up to it. They rarely slink away.

Keep thinking powerful thoughts, Mindy. I think you are on the right track.


There are two more pages of this at the link

Jeff Rense’s 1st Wife Describes his Cheating
May 27, 2012 3:20 PM
left, First wife Janet was a 19-yr-old UCSB cheerleader. (This isn’t her.) “I got an STD from Jeff because of his cheating.””I had post-traumatic stress disorder due to the marriage and wish I had gotten some counseling.”[Editor’s Note: Janet, the first of Jeff Rense’s seven-plus wives,* (married in 1969) is

Control Freak: Jeff Rense Couldn’t Keep a Job
May 6, 2012 6:10 PM
(Jekyll & Rense: A Third Ex-Wife Speaks, Part Two”Jeff needed to be in control … As a result, I saw him get fired and/or quit a number of his TV station jobs because of his personality problem.”MAKOW NOTE: I was not married to Jeff Rense but we had a fruitful

Jekyll & Rense: A Third Ex-Wife Speaks
May 5, 2012 8:29 PM
“I asked him why he’d changed? He said that before we were married, we were in the “courting stage” and that he was showing me what I wanted to see. He had acted out a charade.”MAKOW NOTE: I was not married to Jeff Rense but we had a fruitful 12-year

Rense & Icke – Birds of a Feather?
April 28, 2012 4:59 PM
(left, Jeff Ricke, disinfo specialist?) David Icke couldn’t defend JR’s suppression of the Fukushima conspiracy theory. He posted it himself. Instead he stooped to ad hominem attacks. L.C. Vincent reports on a topic Icke won’t touch. “The DI specialist intertwines approximately 15% bogus information with 85% true and verifiable information.

“I know Jeff Rense as a Predator” – Part Two
April 15, 2012 10:07 AM
Suezan is one of a long trail of women maimed by marriage/engagement to Jeff Rense (left in 1976)Here she concludes her recollections of a “predator” who parades as an “American Treasure…known as a consummate journalist and patriot and equally known for his kindness, loyalty, sensitivity, compassion and intelligence.”

“I know Jeff Rense as a Predator” – Ex-Wife #3
April 11, 2012 12:12 PM
“One night, he got out his gun, a .357 magnum I believe…. The gun was pointed at me and he then “acted” out an attempt to commit his own suicide with the gun to his head.”(Editor’s Note: If this article were about Henry Kissinger or Milt Romney, “Patriots” would be

“Pay-triots” — All Show and No Go
March 5, 2012 9:23 AM
(left, Al Thompson)Whether it is controlled opposition or idiocy, the fact is that the “Truthers” get no results. No problem ever gets fixed; it always gets worse. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut every once in Al Thompson( You said:”I am sorry that many people do not have

Is the Truth Movement Controlled Opposition?
March 1, 2012 12:13 PM
Mike Phillips argues thatmuch of the alternative media is “simulated opposition.” by Mike Phillips( The comment by Jeff Rense’s 9th Ex-Wife Megan caught my eye, “For all you who wonder is Jeff Cointelpro??? No, Jeff Rense is controlled by no one. He is a lone nutter.”It is possible that Rense

Jim Stone is the Real Deal
March 1, 2012 10:36 AM
(left. David Janssen in “The Fugitive.” We do not have Jim Stone’s real name and pic. He is on the run.)Why is the so-called “alternative” media shunning this courageous man and his groundbreaking work? You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of

David Icke Forgot Who He Is
February 29, 2012 5:40 PM
David Icke is so busy reminding us who we are, (“Love, God is Love”) he has forgotten who he is. That makes him a hypocrite. by Henry Makow Ph.D.David Icke’s readers can tell the difference between right and wrong, but apparently David can’t. He has kicked me off his site for

The Jeff Rense File
February 25, 2012 8:10 PM
“A Psychopath will always let you down..” -reader Articles dealing with Jeff Rense in Sequence( Rense terminated a valuable 12-year relationship because I posted Jim Stone’s theory about Fukushima on my website. First, Rense said he would not post my link. I said fine. I didn’t mind. But when I

My Masochistic Marriage to Jeff Rense
February 24, 2012 7:28 PM
In love with “Good Jeff” while keeping “Bad Jeff” at bay, I was becoming as crazy as he. Now that I won’t have to see either again, my recovery can begin.This is the final installment of “Jeff Rense’s Seventh* Ex-Wife Speaks Out” Part One is here. Part Two is here.

The “Spy” Who Loved Jeff Rense
February 23, 2012 10:01 PM
(left – Jeff and “Megan” in Oct. 2011) On occasions he would become even colder than usual. He would stare at me intensely and accuse me of being a spy, sent to poison him.(This is Part II of “Jeff Rense’s Seventh* Ex-Wife Speaks Out.” Part One is Here. ) “A

Jeff Rense’s Seventh Ex-Wife Speaks Out (Part 1)
February 23, 2012 6:59 AM
(left, Jeff Rense and “Megan” got married at a Santa Booth in Dec. 2010. This is a wedding picture.) “Jeff Rense on air is the sweetest, smartest, gentlest man around. But the real Jeff Rense is a monster… is a business, pure and simple.”A psychopath will ALWAYS let you

Jeff Rense is “The Bachelor”
February 22, 2012 1:29 AM
When not posing as “an American Treasure, consummate journalist and patriot,” Jeff Rense has been living yet another fantasy. He is “The Bachelor.”This fight represents a winnowing of the “Truth” movement, separating the wheat from the chaff. Should our own leaders be put to the same standard as Herman Cain,

Real Men Would Defend US Women
February 19, 2012 11:17 AM
Real men would defend US women from the onslaught of feminism and the satanic Illuminati media. Cowards enjoy their degradation or run off to Asia. by BG( said (February 17, 2012):”It takes two to tango. Women are the problem because you don’t want to stand up and tell the woman

Jeff Rense Has Been Married Nine Times
February 18, 2012 6:20 AM
Above, one slick dude(“Jeff Rense Steps in It” -Updated)On Thursday Jeff Rense replied to my article , “The Hidden Jeff Rense” without extending the common courtesy of linking to it. Of course, he vowed never to link to my site again, something he considers a trivial matter. My crime? Posting



Apparently another web site (look at Spoon’s post) has exposed your ex, Jeff, for the slime ball that he is. You’re not alone now in getting the truth out about him. People will look at him with a different set of eyes.

When you’re in the “thick of it,” it’s hard to think and see straight. For a while, I felt like a zombie, having been absolutely wiped out by all the awful experiences that I had (I was constantly anxious) – it was unending headaches coming straight from my ex-spath. Once you get away, go no contact, you can get back to normalcy, recover from the craziness (although this will take who knows how long). Good luck to you.


I and one of Jeff’s ex-girlfriends tracked down all the ex-wives. It was I who contacted them and spoke to them about their experiences on the phone, and then asked if they would go public. 3 of the 6 agreed! (The other 3 had corroborating stories, just did not want to go public.)

This was all my and the other exes work. It was months and months of work…


mindykellogg and Diane,

Thank you for explaining why you needed to show every detail of all of your life. It must be excruciatingly painful to be cornered in such a way that you have to defend almost all of your life to the public on the internet.

I do not think that most comments before Diane’s were trying to blame you except for one. But I do understand that at the stage you are in, any type of comment that is somewhat sceptic of the helpfulness of your tactic is extremelu hurtful and feels like blaming.

Let me assure you, I don’t blame you. I cannot blame you, because I have exposed the unfamous (but infamous) ex-spath on exposion sites myself last year. I did it to do what I felt was my responsibility: to leave a background trail about him if his name was googled. I had pretty much forgotten about it when easter came around and all of a sudden I was harrassed, threatened and emotionally blackmailed over it. By then I was at a total different stage of healing, having been NC for little less than a year with both him and the new woman whom I regard a warned victim. So, I eventually got rid of those profiles about him, on my terms though (a personal, extremely polite request from him). Had he kept up the harrassment over it, I would have kept it indefinitely. Though I got rid of it, I never blamed myself for making it, nor did I reget making it. At the time I did it, it needed to be done imo. Don’t regret getting rid of it either. Because that too needed to be done by that point, not for him, but for myself. By then it felt like it was some contact line I had created myself, and ‘no contact’ at all levels was what I wanted to enforce by then. But I didn’t give a rat’s ass about his threats, or his enablers trying to appeal to me to honour my friendship with me (I blocked them).

So, I’m not blaming you. At this moment you are doing for yourself what you feel is of a priority to you in order to heal. It is courageous what you are doing, aside from painful, as well as honestly vulnerable. To stand up and show yourself vulnerable is a courageous act.

As an aside I admire your physics accomplishments… I am at the end of my first bachelor in physics (going for a second master I hope). Anyway, back to studying metrics and coordinate conversions for my exam on Monday.

Mindy, I wish you all the best and look forward to seeing you around here 🙂 Donna is indeed the best!


Mindy, my comment about e-dating absolutely was not an insult, and I’m sorry you took it that way. More like a lesson learned from what has happened to others. I also know many people who have had successful relationships after e-dating or telephone romances. But after reading your and other stories, I wouldn’t chance it. Sorry if this upsets you.


Hello Mindy,

It was certainly not my intention to blame you for your situation. An encounter with a spath is what unites all of us at LF and I come here as a safe haven to listen to others, to post my feelings and to heal. I am very sorry that you felt attacked by my comment. It was in response to a comment made by another blogger and not in any way intended to hurt you or to crticise you.

The general concensus here is to go NC asap after breaking free from the spath. In addition, it is not recommended that one engages in any form of revenge, no matter how tempting that is. Especially if you are putting your safety at risk. My ex is extremely volatile and I would be too scared to expose him online or otherwise and put my name to it. I am not strong enough emotionally to take him on either. The one time I did I nearly ended up dead.

There are many people here who have lost everything through no fault of their own. They were duped. Myself included. I am still paying the price for my entanglement. I count myself lucky that I have not come off as badly as some but nonetheless my experience will have lasting effects upon me and my family.

I wish you well in your quest. Best wishes from a fellow survivor.

Hi Mindy,
you are a strong chick and I admire your courage.
BUT you are new to this. It takes a while to understand some of the more complex issues about spaths. That is why some of the posters may have seemed hard-hearted. They aren’t, they have just moved on to the next level and want you to hurry up. You can’t. It takes time.

My spath stalked me when I was 17. 25 years later, I learned that he had been putting strychnine in my food for 25 years, to keep me sick and helpless. BUT, I was not. I fought, for my health, for my money. (I had recieved a 100,000 settlement and he wanted it before he killed me.) The story is long, I won’t go into it, but I will say, that when I left him, I realized that he had plotted to make me so miserable that I would kill myself and he would inherit my house. I also realized that had made a very x-rated video of me and that he was saving it for the final humiliation, so that I WOULD KILL MYSELF. Then, last of all, he had told everyone that I was a drug addict and alcoholic and suicidal (including my pharmacist), so that incase I didn’t kill myself, he could make it look like I had. (His ex-gf had killed herself).

The reason I mention this is because, humiliation is their weapon of choice. That is why they slander us. I realized this IMMEDIATELY and decided that I had no reason to be ashamed. My “sex tape” (which I didn’t know about when it was done) was coerced because he literally cried and begged me to prove that I loved him by doing these perversions. He had told me that his video cam was stolen, so I never suspected that he would be taping them, but now I know exactly why he said that. So, anywayI know that my heart was pure when I agreed to do what he asked. I didn’t know he was taping it.

Our weapon against their slander is HUMILITY. This is not just a platitude, Mindy. It is a WEAPON. Get a good understanding of humility vs. shame. and pride and narcisissm and you will get how to fight Mr. Rense.

The way to win against a spath is to NOT PARTICIPATE. AT ALL. GIVE THEM NO ATTENTION. We have better things to do than care about people who believe and spread lies. I know it’s hard, because our society is based on psychopathy: rivalry, competition, materialism, who wins, who loses. We’ve been indoctrinated into that mindset. Getting out of it will be almost impossible.

It will take a long time for you to study and understand the evil that he is and how and why it works. IMO, you can’t learn it fast enough, because once you do, you will have freedom.

You see, it’s kinda complicated. They don’t just want to win, they also want to see you lose. They want to manipulate you into their game. You can’t lose if you don’t play. This frustrates the hell out of them. If they can’t get you to play, they can’t win. oh darn. You aren’t reacting. Even when you win, if you win by playing their game, by wanting revenge, they are getting HIGH OFF THAT. this is their ORGASM. WHY? Because Mindy, you have become them. That’s what they wanted all along. They wanted you to focus on what they do.

Mindy, if you are familiar with the biblical accounts of the devil, you will recognize the same exact behaviors. He envies your BEING and wants you to BE him instead. He knows he is a worm, and he wants you to be a worm too.

To win against a spath, you might want to play that game with them – if you just can’t let it go and rise above it (I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND) – but when you do, don’t EVER let him know that it was you. Keep it to yourself.

Ironically, this is what my spath does. He kills, poisons and sabotages but maintains his facade. He only gloats covertly, so that he’ll never get caught.

Personally, I recommend to work on learning about them IN ORDER TO LEARN MORE ABOUT YOURSELF AND HOW YOU ENDED UP WITH A SPATH. That is the ultimate win because you will grow like a giant oak.

kim frederick

Mindy, Yep, I agree with Skylar. It’s all about the Nirvanna of indifferance. Ahhhhhh, what bliss.
When you let go of the idea of resolution and justice, and quit fighting…when you turn away, as easily and simply as the sand-pipers move away from an incoming wave, (I read that in a daily meditation book, but it works for me) you find a new life, not one that is still enmeshed with the psychopaths agenda…controlled by him, and gratifying to him…they love the fight…they feed off the fight.
It is an absolute victory to surrender and walk away, and really, the only victory we have…but it takes a long time and a hell of a fight and a lot of wisdom to get there.

kim frederick

Can I say this? It is not meant to insult or to hurt anyone. It is not meant to trigger or to rile, or to imply anything, and God knows, I have been enraged and embroiled in a war…I have wanted to take down my oppressor…I have been self rightiously justified in feeling that way…but I was wrong.
I was caught up in a negative script, and playing the one man up and one man down game of the disordered personality…they have a way of pulling you in, and then, the entire relationship becomes a playground of disorder.
Being at peace is the ultimate revenge, and really the only psychologically healthy choice. Finding a spiritual meaning and an opportunity to grow and learn from this hell ride is the only way out, IMO.
As long as you stoop to the level of the spath, you are trauma bonded to the spath, as surely as if he had a yoke around your neck.
I believe that anger is normal and a neccesary part of the process, but, I believe that the end goal is to work through it and emerge a better person for having gone through it.


Sometimes, in my process of recovery, I read something that I immediately interpret as harsh criticism. I have learned that this is a “RE-action” rather than a response. I have been so conditioned to RE-act by both exspaths because I was constantly defending myself or required to “explain” myself to them. How DARE anyone question my motives or actions? How DARE they? Indeed….

Anger is an important part of the recovery process, and it just doesn’t occur and then vanish. My recovery is a series of cycles that go from anger to despair to fury to resolve. The anger, despair, and fury have become less and less of a factor, and resolve is taking more and more of an important role in this whole evolution.

Personally, I’m stumbling on my healing path on a frequent basis. But, I’m on that path and there are people around me who are there to grab at my elbow so that I don’t actually fall.

And, as I’ve typed numerous times, healing from anything is not a New Age “feel good” and spiritual epiphany. Healing is painful. Consider someone who has suffered a compound fracture. There is surgery, incisions, staples, immobility, and recovery – learning to walk, again, after being immobilized for months. The surgical site itches, burns, and can become infected (and, often does). Learning to put weight on that repaired limb is excruciatingly painful until muscle tissue is rebuilt and bone tissue begins to knit back together. As an aside, an interesting thing about a fracture is that the bone tissue will actually build up a biological “splint” to make the facture site stronger.

That is precisely what we survivors are experiencing: the pain of healing. There are “good days” and “bad days,” but time moves on and the “good days” begin to outweigh the “bad days.” This only happened when I finally purged the exspath out of my brain – he was taking up space in my mind, and that was all that I could focus upon. Well, what “he did” and my subsequent misery. Well, I’m still in a very tough situation with no legal remedy, but that’s just the way that it is, and I’m feeling more resolved about everything. I don’t like it, AT ALL – not one bit. But, there isn’t a single philosophical approach or religious/spiritual doctrine that assures me that “Life Is Fair.” It’s not. I either accept that simple, cold, and hard fact, or I spend my precious energies screaming about how unfair life is. After hearing me long enough, people tend to make my screaming into white noise, and I no longer have a voice.

Most sincere and brightest blessings to each and every one of us who is recovering and struggling. And, my most sincere appreciation for the priceless encouragement, strong words, and support.


I appreciate the many perspectives of all of the people who post on this forum. Because we are all at different stages, and pursue different ways of dealing, I’ve been able to calm down a lot and view what I’m going through as a process which has a lot in common with everyone else’s experiences, but is also my own, on my own timetable and in my own way.

I remember a time when I was about 30 years old, and I had just received news that my mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer. A much older woman in a group I belonged to said something to me like, “it’s not that big of a deal.” and I remember being incredibly offended at her insensitivity. Now that it has been 20 years since then, and my mother is still alive and healthy, I can see a bit of what she meant. It is a difference of where you are at, and no it was NOT what I needed to hear at the time. I found her comment shocking and cruel. But I realize now that to go through a crisis and survive and move on, well that is in a way the process of life (“not that big of a deal”), and we all just have different crises and you either get through them or you don’t. If you get through them and some years pass…. well, you are stronger from the experience and you realize that strange as it seems, through loss and grief can come incredible beauty and growth. But no, that is not something you want to hear and hard to think about at the time.

I’m grateful for my 5 decades of time on this planet because as it turns out, in my experience, this is a nice age to be. Despite the turmoil, upheaval, grief, trauma, it’s actually turning out to be a more settled phase, where I am finding my own personal power. I don’t know how much of that is a product of my experience and how much is a product of just putting in the time.

Occasionally I allow myself to look objectively at the awful things I’ve been through (in a detached way) and sometimes I think, “oh my goodness, how does she do it? How has she made it through? That’s incredible…. she is still standing!!! Whoa!!!” And I think that about a lot of our stories: the murder attempts, narrow escapes, awful physical and emotional abuse, having our children ripped away. How is it that we are still here, still standing?

I appreciate the people who post here, some older than me, some younger than me, so many different perspectives but all on our different journeys. We do have the spath experience in common.

Skylar you are so right to point out how nuanced and complex this “spath experience” is. And Truthspeak, you point to how your screaming may be heard as “white noise” to others, but I hear it differently; the experience of the yowling pain is just as important as the experience of realization, or of acceptance, or anger. And I DO hear your voice, and I appreciate your speaking, writing, screaming, ranting.

One thing I’ve learned about spaths through my experience is that, through various means, they deny or try to annihilate you, to erase your existence. This is the lowest form of disrespect possible to another human soul.

To be seen, heard, known, FULLY understood (“as is”), without trying to assimilate or destroy you is a sacred thing. To respect our oneness and our seeming separateness without being a predator or a parasite. Spaths will steal us, either try to absorb us into them, or implant themselves into us. It is a soul violation.

They will try anything to gain their object, which is to possess us, use us up, then wipe us out. They take our energy, our beauty, they use us, defile us, they sow doubts in our minds about ourselves, weaken us, poison us, slander us, as though they OWN us.

And they don’t, of course.

For me, in my recovery, I had to get this: that I still exist, that I am still myself, that I am bruised but not broken. I am intact. That it is an illusion that they have taken ANYTHING of value from me.

The disillusionment from everything I previously believed is incredibly painful and jarring. Just when I think I’m getting a handle on it, I realize it goes even deeper than I thought.

I seem to be at some kind of middle place, now. Where I no longer mourn for my lost innocence and the life I had before. Because I like being awake, better. (Still waking, still angry sometimes)



I discovered an older article, posted July 8, 2011, that may be of help to you – It was titled, Sociopaths, Stress, and Physical Sickness, written by a man who posts as “shocknawe.” In the article, the writer talks about how he set about recovering (naturally) from adrenal fatigue, brought on by his marriage to a spath. Hopefully, the article can give you some ideas.



I’ve been thinking about what you said re no-fault divorces. I’m finding that interesting. Would abolishing no-fault divorces help or hurt in cases of marriages to spaths?

In my case, my spath wasn’t done with me yet. I’m the one who filed for divorce. It was in a no-fault state (only type of divorce available there) and I think this made the process simpler. Otherwise, I would have had to have offered proof of “mental cruelty” and physical abuse or whatever some of the other reasons might be (as far as I know, there was no adultery in our case).

But he did not want the divorce.

I’m just wondering how much harder it would have been and how much longer it might have taken, if I’d had to prove it. Because he would have lied and made me out to be the crazy one (he did this, anyway).

But if it is the spath who wants the divorce…. how would the victim-spouse be helped if the spath hurls even more venom (probably lies) to prove his/her case?

I’m interested in your thinking on this. For “regular” marital problems, I think it should not be too easy to get a divorce, so that the spouses are encouraged and helped to work it out. But for spath marriages, the quickest possible exit with as little need as possible to have to prove the reason (which amounts to outing the spath, which tend to bring about the wrath of retaliation when you least are able to handle it) — might be more helpful?

Divorce is a humiliating, horrible process anyhow. I’m glad it was available to me.

another reason for not “outing” Rense is because, THAT’S WHAT HE WANTS. Imagine how much more web traffic he gets once people see the drama he’s embroiled in. He thrives on it.

Also, they love to know how hurt you are and it makes them feel powerful to know they caused it. I’ve said it before; when my spath called me to feed on my pain, he asked, “tell me what I did wrong to you? How did I hurt you?”

Now that might seem like an almost innocent question from a lover trying to understand my side of the story, wanting to hear my greviance and wanting to perhaps make amends. NOT!

I understood exactly why he asked. He was smacking his lips at hearing all the little details of my pain and how he had hurt me. He was salivating for it.

My response, in a calm, gentle voice, “Spath, you didn’t ANYTHING to me, compared to what you’ve done to yourself.”

I wish it hadn’t been on the phone so I could’ve seen his face, because I think he recognized the truth in it. He took a young 17 year old girl who loved him wholly and completely and tried to destroy her. Everyone always said I was the best thing that ever happened to him and it’s true. But he couldn’t benefit from it because he envied the good person that I was.

Mindy, in fact we CAN and DO benefit from our encounters with the spaths. I won’t tell you how YOU will benefit, because each of us do it slightly differently. It’s a matter of the old adage, “what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger”.

In my case ONE way I benefited is that the pain from the strychnine made me evaluate my diet. I discovered that I have celiac and some dairy intolerance. I studied nutrition like crazy and took really good care of myself. People tell me I look a lot younger than my 46 years. It’s because of the vitamins and healthy diet. No junk food, no sugar, no wheat etc… The stupid spath did me a favor in that way.

I still study spaths, even though it seems like I might already know everything there is to know, because I keep learning more new things. When I learn about them, I immediately learn about me: we are the other side of the coin.


20years, my feeling about “no fault” divorce is that it should be an option, and not the only course of action. In my case, the spath would hardly want to have his forgeries exposed under testimony if he knew that there were strict punitive consequences as a result of his actions.

“No fault” was a good notion when it was concieved, as most ill-fated notions tend to be. It was strictly enacted to “protect” women (primarily) from being left with a passle of children with no form of support or income when their husbands wanted to leave them. These women were mostly housewives who stayed at home, cooked, cleaned, ran the household, raised the children, did the laundry, and all of the other tasks that a Domestic Goddess does. When a husband earned the income, invested that income, and retained assets, they were (prior to “no fault”) actually HIS. Wives weren’t “entitled” to any income that they, themselves, did not earn. So, in theory, this was enacted to “protect” the wives’ and children’s best interests, financially.

In the 1970’s, the rate of divorce under “no fault” skyrocketed to a near-epidemic proportion. People had affairs, left spouses, and engaged in every manner of abuse and simply dissolved the contract of marriage through “equitable distribution” of property and assets. It no longer mattered whether or not a spouse was paying for mistresses or pool boys, or whether or not a spouse took out loans in the other ones’ names, or defrauded another spouse out of their individual assets. Divorce awards/settlements became 100% “equitable distribution.” Value in dollar amount was placed upon every item in the home, and every asset that could be proven.

This concept has led to the tolerance of every manner of abuse within a marital contract that could be conceivable. It’s a simple matter of “You get 1/2 of this, they get 1/2 of that, and go on your merry way.” The emotional and financial carnage that results from these abuses has no monetary value – there is no punitive (punishment) damage award in “no fault.” This means that the worst that the exspath has to face for his multiple betrayals and forgeries will be……………………………minimal alimony on a short-term basis. Nevermind that he, by legal definition, “allegedly” committed a Federal Crime and coerced me out of enough funds that I would have been able to relocate anywhere I chose – in the US or abroad – and start my life over. Instead, he is able to literally walk away from every financial obligation and consequence with no more discomfort than paying a minimal amount of alimony, and for a very short duration.

So, this is my beef with “no fault.” Very rarely is a divorce amicable and reasonable, and someone is always more likely to be “at fault” as a result of their choices and actions. “No fault” relieves people who fit the profile of a sociopath from any legal and moral ramifications, and there HAS to be some type of change.

These are just my feelings about it, and the consequences of legal action against a spath or BY a spath need to be taken into consideration, as well. LONG and drawn out actions should not be tolerated. Bring on the evidence, provide testimony, and end it, for crissakes. But, render judgements and decisions that are FAIR instead of “equitable.”

Brightest blessings!


It’s such a personal decision whether to fight or fold. There are certainly benefits to fighting, and sometimes it may be the only choice you have – especially if you are fighting for your life, your home, your ability to find work in your field. I would never try and tell someone they are making a bad choice by going head-to-head with a sociopath to regain parts of their lives back. If you have victories, it can be very empowering to stand up to someone so evil. I myself turned in my spath to the army and remained on call for nearly a year while the investigation was happening, providing sworn statements from me and my friends.

While it was very rewarding to see justice served, it also came with a price. The price was that it kept him in my mind for a year, which prevented me from moving on in my love life. There is always a price for staying engaged/embroiled with a sociopath.

I no longer have any spaths in my life, but I have gotten to a point in my life where I will allow NOTHING – not one thing – to disturb my peace. I have even distanced myself from friends and co-workers if they start taking their stress out on me. I just want peace. I can’t imagine there is anything worth winning if it will make me physically or emotionally ill to do it. But I’m 52, and I see my own mortality every day. I am living my life as though I only have 6 months left to live. There are no room for spaths in that life.


re: “no fault,” the idea of a prenuptial contract became popular when it was seen how horrific “no fault” really was. I feel that entering into a contract of marriage shouldn’t be prefaced with a prenuptial contract, simply because it could be used/abused to either prolong a very bad situation, or end one that could be healed.


Skylar, very true words.

I know this, and I still have trouble getting my mind around it: our normal human response of expressing our pain does not bring about in a spath the normal human response of empathy.

There are two parts to their response, that I’ve figured out:

1) They DON’T CARE.
2) They GET OFF ON IT.

So really, the only way we can respond and not play into their hands is to not play the game they want us to play.

To not show our pain. Not put our pearls before swine. They not only cannot get any soul benefit (lessons) from witnessing our pain, nor can they give any solace to us of the sort which gives without taking, but they actually, literally get off on our pain.

Why would I want to contribute to that?

I had to learn this the hard way. To see his lascivious excitement over my honest expressions of woundedness. And his derision. And his amused delight. And his disgust. Nothing approaching any kind of NORMAL human response to another’s pain. It was all warped and kinky and made me feel much worse.

I realized it was depleting me.

The only thing that has worked for me, ever, to help me regain my strength and personal power, has been to pretend to be as boring as possible, completely unperturbed. Impervious. They get extremely thrown off base by this.

Their games with us are just for their power. Like, “I own you, I created you, so I can experiment on you, analyze the effects, ruin you, destroy you…. at any time. If I want to.”

So if we take back our own power by not engaging or being an interesting target…. it really puzzles them.

Eventually you can get to a place where you no longer have to be boring. You can start sparkling and twirling again, and if you thereby attract his attention once more, you can say with a look that pierces right into him, “don’t even think about it.”


Stargazer, what a very poignant and honest insight you’ve provided.

Someone recently suggested that an anonymous call on the exspath might result in an investigation of missing properties where he is employed rather gave me a malicious moment of glee, but I don’t think that it would matter. I just want done with him.

Thank you for sharing that insight, Stargazer.

Brightest blessings


Skyar, I agree with your insight on “outing” most spaths. Because of where the exspath works, I could very well place my very life in jeopardy if I were to publicly “out” him. It doesn’t matter if I’m “right” and he’s “wrong.” I already know what he is and what he did. My job, right now, is to emerge from this and fulfill whatever purpose I’ve been sent here to accomplish.

I love Donna’s first book title. It speaks about how I feel regarding my own experiences. We’re meant to “do something” as a result of our experiences, whether it’s to help others survive, recover, and emerge, or see legislative changes, or simply and effectively educate the general public about the cold, hard truths of sociopathic entanglements.

20 years,
You got it. After boring them into utter confusion, we can sparkle again. The key is to never give them a response that they expect: PAIN.

Sure we can fight for certain things, but never do it in anger. Just do it. Don’t show ANY EMOTION. Everything they take from us, or do to us, is more about taking our emotions than it is about the material things.

We must remember our motto: PLEASE DON’T FEED THE SPATHS!


Divorce is a tough thing. So can marriage be. I think it can be tough to sort out the assets fairly. I think in some cases in marriage, it works well and seems right that both spouses combine assets and joint liability, and live their lives as a team, for better and for worse.

I think it some other cases in marriage, one person does all the heavy lifting with great sincerity, while the other person does not keep their commitments, does not contribute to the work of the marriage, and/or actively sabotages or lives off the other person (like a parasite). I’m not talking about “in sickness and in health” like one person gets sick — that stuff happens and it is a bummer and you do the best you can. I’m talking about one person misrepresenting themselves or being immature or being a spath or deliberately taking advantage of the other or acting with great fiscal irresponsibility and disregard for the other person.

So how do we write marriage/divorce laws that apply under all conditions, and support and encourage marriage (of a mutually beneficial partnership sort) and in the case of a divorce, be fair to both people, sorting out the causes of the divorce?

Yes, Truthspeak, in cases of a financially-parasitic spath relationship, community property or “no fault” is anything BUT fair to the normal or targeted spouse.


I’m glad anything I share can be of help to anyone. Thank you, Truthspeak. Reading your posts, you sound like you are well on your way in your recovery as well.

20 years ago, I was living with an alcoholic. I was financially and emotionally dependent on him. I knew he was bad for me but I couldn’t leave. Then I met another man who was a healer (this is another story). As I tried to break away from my alcoholic boyfriend, I moved out of his house and began dating the healer. The healer really helped me see some of my own self worth, my own capabilities as a healer, and helped me become more empowered. One night I had a very powerful dream. I dreamt that I was sitting in a hot tub with my alcoholic bf and his friends. And the healer guy was there. He was very tall. He stood up and lifted me out of the the hot water and carried me away.

I have thought of that dream a lot when I need to get away from toxic people. I imagine myself just lifting myself out of the hot tub full of them and walking away. Healing for me is an uplifting energy. It pulls my energy up and away, distancing me from anything that would bring me down, so those things/people don’t become attracted to me nor I to them. Of course, along the way, I get to confront my own inner demons, but at least I have the power to heal those things. I don’t have the power to change another person.

Nowadays, I don’t really need a man to lift me out of a toxic situation. I can lift myself out because I know what happy and positive feelings feel like. Better yet, I just avoid them. Anything that doesn’t resonate with peace – whether it’s inside of myself or outside of myself – must go. Anger, depression, fear, toxic relationships………there is just no room for these things anymore in my passionate pursuit of happiness. I sat in the hot tub of my life with all these things for so many years. It never occurred to me that I can just get up and walk away.

J from my salsa class (man I like) has this very beautiful presence. When I dance with him, he looks directly into my eyes, and I can see his eyes start to tear up a little with joy and love. Not like the blank stare of a sociopath. Being around him is putting me through some changes. I feel this type of loving, accepting, and appreciative energy from him. Like he can really see me without judgment. This is a great mirror for me. It’s pushing all my buttons – bringing up all the things that are in the way of my loving and accepting myself. All the things that make me think I’m “not ready” for a relationship. What do I need to do to get ready? I need to just love myself. That way, when a truly loving man comes into my life, I can just receive it.

Other people are all mirrors for us. What we have manifested on the outside truly does reflect our mental/emotional state and what is going on inside.


20years, if I were an attorney, I’d write a bill and deliver it to my elected officials! LOL

Stargazer, what you are describing is something that Skylar just posted about moving on and finally being able to “sparkle.” We can “sparkle” without the need for someone else to light the fuse for us, and what you are posting is very empowering and encouraging to me.

Brightest blessings


Thruthspeak and 20years,

What beautiful posts you wrote! 20 years I was reminded of the effect the book “women who love psychopaths” had on me just after I had finished the chapter about temperament profile of the victim (the personality part still had to come). I had a visual experience of it.

I was looking in the mirror and saw the spath put a gun in my hands and had me shoot at the mirror. I realized that the spath had used my natural temperamental advantages, exactly those traits that I valued the most about myself, and turned them into a weapon aimed back at me. The vision continued with the shattering glass of the mirror. The pain of the realization on how he had used me as a weapon against myself was truly shattering, like that shattered mirror. I started to cry and felt like totally falling apart and unraveling.

But this shattering and painful realization was met with the survivor part of myself. It told me: “You are still alive and breathing. Has this character assassination attempt truly killed your temperament?”

I thought in reply, “If I alter my being, my temperament out of protection because of this, yes.”

And then that calm survivor voice told me, “Can you change your temperament?”

Since I knew that temperament is exactly that part of the personality that is innate and you are born with and that it’s impossible to alter it and even incredibly unhealthy to try (that’s how I ended up having an ID crisis 14 years ago), I could only answer a convinced, “No, I can’t change my temperament. I shouldn’t even.”

And then the survivor voice pointed something out to of that assassination vision with the shattering mirror. “Look at that mirror. What was assassinated really?”

And the answer was, “A mirror and my reflection in it.”

The survivor then ordered me to go look in my bathroom mirror. “See, there’s plenty of mirrors and they all still reflect the same you.”

And that’s when I realized I was as whole as before the attempt. That in fact nobody could ever damage my chore self.

It was as you said, at one second I felt like, “Oh dear, what has happened to me. It’s so awful! So cruel! So wrong!” and the next second I felt, “It’s not that big of a deal actually.” Yes, it was cruel and wrong what he tried and did! But it would only damage me if I made it a succesful assassination in my mind.

Yes, my brain still needed to heal from the damage caused by the chronic stress (still needs some healing, slow process), still needed to pay off the loan, still needed to wrap my brain around the shock of what a spath is and how they abuse people, still needed to regain my footing in boundary world, still needed to forgive myself… But that moment I already knew he had ultimately lost: he could never destroy what he wanted to destroy! As long as I am alive and breathing and have no brain tumor or altzheimer, I still carry with me my survivor temperament that can enjoy life deeply and can rebuild.


I definitely thank my excellent boundary installment to others as well as myself because of the spath healing process. I thank my clear cut view on which responsibility is whose in daily situations because of it. I thank my ability to not demand perfection of myself anymore to it. I thank my ability to forgive myself when I fail at something to it. I don’t beat myself nor blame myself as much anymore for what others do wrong. I thank my current savings on the bank while paying off the last loan (to pay off the credit I had standing out) and so have cleaned up my financial act. Having had to pay of the debt that he majorly caused me altered my lifestyle of a grasshopper consumer to an ant who will buy the cheap non-brand food that doesn’t have preservations in it (which is healthier). My rattled stressed out brain has made me install certain routines for planning and executing in a way I never did before and not naturally am prone to do and also see the necessity in it in order to function properly. And it forced me to start studying again, a subject that tingles my inner self with excitement every time my brain does a ‘click, I understand that now.’ I thank my current peace of mind to it: I worry less, I stress less, I blame myself less, I take the responsibilities that are mine serious and without complaint, and I take stuff much less personal, my credit and my bank account hasn’t been as healthy before for years, my lifestyle is better.

The spath isn’t a gift at all… but I made sure the encounter became a gift to me of a better life than I had even before the encounter.


Thank you so much, Truthspeak. The funny thing is, I alway knew this “sparkle” as you call it was inside of me. I felt it as a child, before my disturbed stepfather came along. And I reexperienced it in grad school during my drug experimentation days. When I began meditating at 23, I developed a method for connecting with myself on a very deep level. And yet I still suffered so much for so long.

It amazes and saddens me to think of all the dark years spent in depression and despair, close to suicide so many times, and feeling like there were no resources. And yet I never really forgot who I was, and that must be what gave me hope and kept me going. This is why I tell people here that if they can just imagine what it is like to have peace, freedom, happiness, any glimmer of something that makes them smile, they can build on that. Negative emotions cannot thrive in a very positive environment. But they can be burned up and transmuted into positive qualities. They can teach us things. Toxic people can teach us things. For me, when I see them, and I see the fears and beliefs that fuel their toxic choices, it reinforces the healthy lifestyle I choose to live. That is how I let these people enrich my life. I don’t let them bring me down.

I don’t want to give anyone the wrong idea that I don’t acknowledge my fears and anger, etc. I’ve dealt with more of it than I could ever share with anyone here. But the upside is that when you actually go through these scary emotions, something really interesting happens, and it is actually described in the Buddhist teachings. When anger is transmuted (felt and released), it becomes wisdom. Greed transmuted becomes faith. I forget what fear becomes – I’ll bet One Joy knows – maybe hope or excitement. Living a life where you are transmuting your emotions will always lead to spiritual joy. Spiritual joy makes you more immune to illness and aging. For all of you who are going through a lot of rage, when you get through it, you will be very wise people. You already are. And you will have that spiritual joy. That is what I see in my friend J, a type of spiritual joy. I see it in his eyes and feel it in his presence. I think he recognizes it in me, too. That is why for once I don’t care that he’s not younger than me. He is young in spirit.

Having said this, I think that sometimes to shift our energy or move on, we need to stop and fight. This is a very personal decision, and should be based on whether it will eventually help us lighten our load of stress and anger. It’s better to do SOMETHING with anger than to let it fester. But it’s good to do the thing that will have the best outcome for us. I think where a lot of people get stuck – where *I* got stuck for years – is that they don’t realize that they have the power to let it go.



That dream you had sounds like a visual of a verbal pun: being and being pulled out of “hot water”.

What you said about the backspath you did is something I totally get. I exposed him calmly and factually, and actually a lot of people I didn’t even know at the other side of the world, but who knew him, thought he finally got what was coming to him. But at the same time I paid a price for it that it extended the longevity of my bond to him. By the time he tried to make drama in my life over it again, all I wanted was peace and no contact.

(next paragraph fits as an example to Sky’s post about them feeding on pain and stargazer’s post about wanting just peace at some point)

His extremely polite request of course was full of lies and traps: painting us as a couple who simply grew apart, had nothing to say to each other anymore, me hurting all the time and how he did me a favor, and perhaps it was because of the age difference, blablabla… I read the content and dismissed it for what it was: lies and traps to try and anger me and make me feel old and unsuitable… It was full of barbs to try and hurt me. But it didn’t hurt me at all, nor did it make me angry. And even if it had, by then I knew that the last thing I should do was take the bait, nor charge like a bull and debate and argument the case he was trying to paint, let alone show pain.

I replied, “That’s a far more propper mask. I deleted it. People cannot do a background check on your lies anymore.” I basically messaged him that all he spouts are lies and that whatever he tries it only confirms he’s a spath wearing some mask, the last one to me being exactly the one I had told him to wear. That’s how he knows that he can’t threaten me, can’t manipulate me, can’t upset me, can’t hurt me, can’t scare me and can’t deceive me anymore, and I ain’t pining about him. I can see right through him and do whatever I want to do. He can’t touch me, and I made and make sure he never will.

beautiful post. I love your visualization of the mirror and the gun.

As you said, the spath isn’t a gift, it’s just part of life. We are the ones who weave that straw into gold by the decisions we make. The spath had his own decisions and he made the wrong ones. It’s sad for them, I feel sorry for them, yet he does serve as a warning to others not to go down that road.


Another thing I’ve been thinking about, and that is the issue of consent and how powerful that is.

For example, for decades I have heard, “they can’t mistreat/abuse you WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION,” and I always heard that to mean that it was somehow my fault, or that I was being blamed.

Indeed, I do think that is how many people view that. Like it is the responsibility of the person being abused, or we asked for it. Or we could somehow stop it if we wanted to, but obviously we didn’t want to (we must want to be abused), since that is what we are getting.

But now I’m starting to see a different aspect to it, and that is CONSENT.

I really do think that we give uninformed consent to allow the spaths into our lives (so there is no blame). But I think that is how it happens. And I think that if we do not give consent, then it CANNOT happen. I think there is great power in saying, “don’t even think about it” (even if you say it only with a look or an attitude). Or like the HAL computer in 2001 A Space Odyssey, “I’m sorry Dave… I can’t do that.”

This is how you can get back to your sparkling and twirling and shining your light, KNOWING there is evil, and knowing that they cannot attack you without your consent.

Um, I’m speaking kind of metaphysically. That is how I understand it, now. I also know that without taking it in that way, it comes across as blame. Not my intention, and not my take on it anymore.

It’s like saying, “Oh, I see, you are Evil. OK, you just sit down over there. Yeah…. way over there. Yeah. OK, bye.” And then go back to your sparkling.

It is in some ways the same kind of awareness or knowingness that you experience (Stargazer) when you look at someone and can see their essence so clearly. No longer are you fooled by the facade or the sheep’s clothing — and they know it.

You don’t consent. You are not a target. They will see the knowingness in you and go find someone more suitable to play with.


Thank you, Darwinsmom, for sharing your vision.

These waking visions are gifts, so powerful.

yes, you are exactly right, and there is a reason for that.
Evil enjoys taking us by surprise. If they know we see them for what they are and know what they are planning, they stop. Why? because it’s no fun anymore. They like to see the shock on our faces, when we get 180 degrees the opposite of what we expected.

That’s why they’re called the people of the lie.



You are right! 🙂

Yes, the most fundamental tactic in their game of “I win — and you lose!” is to obscure the very existence of Evil in the first place.

It is amazing to me how well this has succeeded. There are lots of people who don’t really believe in everyday Evil.

So…. in the game without even knowing that there is a game on.

Hmmm…. how many spaths do you think recognize other spaths as kindred spirits and leave them alone? How conscious do you think they are of it/what they are? (question for another day maybe)


20 years,

I used to view the ‘consent’ as the same thing. Now it means to me believing that what somebody else does to you defines you… that what they say or do becomes a reality about yourself.

Somewhere last November or early December this twat of a guy tried to hit on my friend and tried to do it by putting me down: I had the face of a nice girl who wouldn’t harm anyone and a do-gooder, someone who’d never be naughty; whereas my friend supposedly seemed more dangerous and naughtier to him.

Yes, the guy tried to insult me and wave me off. But here’s the thing: nothing what he accused me off was an insult unless I would make it an insult. What is wrong with being a good person who is not out to harm other people? NOTHING! His ‘insults’ were actually compliments and it just betrayed his mind. Not to mention that my friend said, “You’re dead wrong. She’s the courageous one, tramping about in the world all by herself with a backpack and daring to take chances in life. She’s the adventurous one.”

In the past I would have taken his words as an insult because I knew that was how he saw it as something to disapprove of me. And I would have broken my head what I did to invite such a censure of a stranger who never saw or talked to me before.

Now I realize that he is the one with an issue, not me. And it’s not because he projects his issue upon me and twists it as if who I am in his eyes is wrong, that I have to make it my issue. If I would have accepted his twisted view, would have taken it as an insult, then I would have made it my issue and give my consent for him to abuse me.

I asked him, “Who are you here with tonight?” And he pointed out two younger student guys for his company. I smiled and said, “I guess I will introduce myself to them. They seem like better company.” At that instant I made clear that he had no consent to make me judge badly on myself and I had just judged him very badly.

20years, to put it in your words, it’s like saying, “Oh, I see, you are Evil. Ok, you just stay right here, I’ll go sit way over there with your friends. I can see from here already that I’ll like them much better than you, and they will enjoy my company too.” And oh yes, I sparkled! Those students and I had a good laugh for the next hour.

Exactly, Sky!

We get straw and we weave it into gold, without the help of Rumpelstitskin! As for Rumpelstitskin, he is like a spath trying to make us think less of ourselves for not being straw-gold magicians… but instead we just surprise them by calling them out and rip the mask off. And then they huff and puff and stamp their feet and “poef!” they go up in smoke.


I don’t really think of the spath in terms of whether he helped make me stronger or whether it was my own resolve that made me stronger. I think of the months with him as an “experience”. The entire experience ended up making me a better and stronger person. So therefore, I have him to thank, but in the way that I thank all of the difficult people who have passed through my life for teaching me important life lessons and coping strategies. When you consider our lives are made up of moment-to-moment experiences, it is really our experience of someone who helps us to grow. On the other hand, the most kind and loving person could come into our life, but if we don’t experience them as such – maybe we are mistrustful – then we will have the opposite experience.

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