By Ox Drover
My own personal opinion is that most humans, as a species, have a component that comprises “spirituality.” Evidence from some of the earlier cultures of our species when our ancestors were still living in caves indicate that these people had some idea that there were unseen gods or spirits in the heavens or in their worlds.
I think for many of us our spirituality is also part of our healing path and helps us to set a moral compass to follow in our actions and thoughts. Most of the sacred writings of several belief systems I have read all indicate that kindness to others, charity, and doing good to your fellow man is primary to following that belief. Though history and ancient evidence also indicate that some belief systems at least in the ancient past induced their followers to sacrifice their children by burning them before the altar of the idol, or offering blood sacrifices of captured enemies to the deity, those seem to be in the minority of belief systems.
Unfortunately, today there are many psychopaths who take advantage of what I believe is human nature to believe in something “higher than yourself” and to seek some one or some way to “contact” that “higher power.”
Tony Alamo presented himself as one of these “prophets of god” starting, along with his wife, Susan, preaching to the downtrodden in California, but eventually recruiting these people who fell under their spell, to work for them in profit making enterprises.
Alamo and his wife Susan came to Arkansas where they made the local news when after a losing bout with cancer, Susan’s body was kept above ground for months, with Alamo claiming that he was going to raise her from the dead. Even after he failed in the task of raising Susan from the dead, those disciples under his emotional and spiritual control did not desert him en mass.
Alamo’s many illegal antics attracted the ire of the IRS and he was convicted of tax fraud and spent about four years of a six-year sentence in federal prison. Though there was a great deal of information coming from those who had left Alamo’s discipleship that his “church” was sanctioning polygamy and underage sex with young women and girls as young as nine, Alamo, subsequently managed to stay un-indicted for these alleged crimes until recently when he was arrested while fleeing from authorities.
The judge ruled that he would not be allowed bail and six minors were removed into foster care from his compound and from his followers. Alamo was The Barely Legal Empire of Tony Alamo by Maria Luisa Tucker, May 13, 2008.
I am relieved that this man is finally behind bars, apparently forever.
Hey OxDrover:
Small world….you are right! I am thinking you live in north Arkansas in the Ozarks judging by the ‘hills’ comment! AHAHAHAHA! I was born in Russellville–all my family but one sister dead and buried there. I grew up in Little Rock close to the Governor’s mansion in a big southern home. Lived in Arkansas all my life except when I moved to Texas and Florida………….girl….we must have been passing each other on the freeway! Did you see a woman with a young daughter, a horse trailer with 2 horses and a P man driving? AHAHAHA!–cause it was us. My younger daughter is in dressage. Animals are her passion–especially horses-she is a biology major-University of Arkansas. Yep, Razorbacks…BTW-my first X graduated from the University of Arkansas–liked it so well [what contacts! LOL] that he stayed. He is from England, Arkansas. [I had to stay close to home in Little Rock cause I was raising the kids he deserted-so I did not get to go to college until later].
No, I do not know Jack Walls personally. I know of him thru a very good friend who knows him thru guns. My friend sold him a lot of guns and then helped him liquidate his gun collection. Then….the crap hit the papers and my friend wound up testifying on the gun issue. My friend said he had NO idea this man was/or could be like this. He always brought his wife with him and was very polite [withdrawn kinda]. His wife always sat and read books while he did business. Really freaked my friend out to even know this dude. I worked in the gun business with my friend but I never met JW…he had already gone to prison by that time. Freaky people out there………..you know…I don’t even think I know my X’s very well–even tho I was married to this last one 28 years. I find there can be some dark hidden issues among these males….especially sexually. Scary!
Sam Vankin: now that is a piece of work. 😛 Knows more about these NP males….because as he has admitted, he is one! I’ve ‘conversed’ with Sam before. One smart P! I tried that board when I first started finding out all this stuff. In fact: I own Sam’s big book on NP. First one I ever bought on this subject when I first began searching for real answers. That board made me feel totally confused. I jumped ship quickly from that and wandered around some more till I found Dr. Leedom and Brown’s book. Bingo….I hit paydirt there!!! Got my answers and feelings understood for the very first time….and believe me: freedom! 🙂 ((((((hugs to you)))))) We are Steel Magnolias!!!!!!”Laughter through tears is my favorite emotion” – Truvy
Dear Twice,
Yea, I think we did pass each other on teh freeway, my husband was a 3-day-event horseman, I ride western and have since childhood. My husband had a couple of horses that went to national 3-day events and I have a bushel basket full of ribbons. I still ride, have a horse, and two mammoth jack asses, named Fat Ass and Hairy Ass and I ride the asses as they are so smooth gaited, smarter than horses and not as likely to hurt you. I’m too old to get more broken bones. I rodeo’d when I was a kid and barrel raced.
Sam Vakin is a real monster, but he has actually gotten enough NOTICE with his self permotion that he has definitely turned a lot of folks on to starting to learn about Ns and Ps. There was a movie made about him recently where he was actually diagnosed as a P by researachers. I would LOVE to see that movie. Wish I knew how to get a copy of it. I am sure he loved being the center of attention. His wife is such a VICTIM to him, and he loves humiliating her according to the researchers who tested Sam and made the movie.
I’m like you on that board of one of his sites, the managers are just I think as disordered as he is. On one, he put up an ARTICLE that said “Jesus was a Narcissist” and gave all the reasons that Jesus was a diagnosable N. It only stayed up one day before it was taken down, but the managers were always “counseling you” if you even said “God bless you” unless you were NOT a Christian believer. Then you could discuss religion all you wanted to. I left when all that became apparent.
I’ve always been a hunter since I was a kid, but no longer hunt much any more. Raise my own beef so no need for the meat, but spend a lot of time in the woods when the insect season (ticks) is about done. has gotten as hummid in last few years here in the hills as it is in the grand prairie or the delta (a big change) so summers are more unpleasant now around here and I’m getting softer so spend really hot weather in the cool house, or get out early in the day, but sometimes even 70-72 is miserable if the humidity is up.
Since the Trojan Horse’s attack we all have concealed carry licenses and carry for our own protection, and even though the guys have a shooting range up in the back of our property, and frequently practice and I ‘never practice” I can pretty much equal them in accuracy and it really chaps them. LOL
I don’t go to LR much any more unless I HAVE TO for some reason, just spend most of my time in the boonies. I live about 35 miles N of conway so LR is an hour’s drive for me. I used to go to college in LR and knew the city pretty well, but have lived and worked in LA, New Orleans, Miami, Dallas, etc. and have “enjoyed” all the metro living and shopping etc that I care to. At least the way my property is laid out, and my house is situated in the woods, invisible from the road, and there are alarms and noisy dogs here, I feel safe here at least, and having at least ONE armed guard besides myself here most of the time, I don’t feel as threatened as I did back when there was a psychopath actively hunting me and I bought an RV and headed for the hills to hide out, leaving everything behind here at the farm except my dogs. He even came and locked up my two asses in a stable sized pen without food and water for a couple of days, but I had folks checking on the livestock etc. Minor vandalism was all it ended up being to my property.
Me leaving though, and getting away UNNNOTICED in the middle of the night left them confused about what to do, and ended up bringing the while thing to light when the TH-P changed plans and was going to take off with my DIL and money stolen from my egg donor til they got caught, then they had decided to kill him and make it look like “self defense” but thank GOD he was able to get to 911 in time and they took off running. Cops caught them almost immediately. Both went to jail/prison, but are both out now. I don’t fear either one of them though, as they both know we are armed, that if they were found on this farm at all (restraining orders) that there would be no reprocussions for what happened to either of them.
That’s one of the things about living in such a rural county where the local law may be crooks, but they are OUR crooks and you know them personally and they know the situation. the local sheriff was one of the few supporters I had before the attempted murder of my son C by the TH-P and his wife.
Healing from all this CONTINUAL decades-long drama-rama and STRESS is not a quick fix, for sure. I have not done a lot except try to heal for the past couple of years (since august 07 when the attempted murder took place) and you know, it has been a “full time” job to get back to where I can function. Life is good again and I feel better about myself, my own ability to cope with whatever life throws at me, and am more watchful for psychopathic traits in those around me, avoid them, and live in PEACE and harmony with those I love. What better thing could one hope for even in life. My sons are healing as well, and we all have a ways to go, but we have made the biggest leap back to a “good life” and one where our homoe is a SANCTUARY. Even after I moved back here to the farm, I couldn’t move back into my house for 6 months, I didn’t feel safe, and I lived in the RV parked near the house, but not IN the house. That RV was my safety blanket sort of and I didn’t feel SAFE inside the house.
In fact, for a while, it was like there was a black cloud of EVIL over the entire farm. I still don’t go over by my egg donor’s house (1/2 mile away from my house) unless I know for a fact she is gone…I don’t want her peering out the window watching me through her field glasses. Where my house is, she can’t see either the aircraft hangar, RV or my house from her house. Can’t see my house even from the county side road. She does get information sometimes from the neighbors about me coming and going, but I was actually gone for 3 months before she knew I was gone, and home for 3 months before she knew I was home again. I try to keep the neighbors from knowing much to report to her.
I am a trustee with her on the land trust so I have business sometimes we have to do, but it is done by e mail, business ONLY discussed, and if I need papers my adopted son goes and gets them or gets them signed. No information about me goes to her from that source either.
There was a time when I was DASHED TO THE GROUND when I realized she is what she is, and I didn’t think I could stand the grief and disappointment, it would have been easier if she had died (ditto with my P-son) but now I am essentially FREE of any expectation about her, accept the ugly truth, and my son too. I’m reaching that “nirvana of indifference” with both of them and my life is so much better without me worrying about them or caring what happens to either of them. It is difficult for her to grasp either that I DO NOT care about her money or an inheritence of cash from her, and that she cannot control me and is essentially ALONE NOW—after she canceled my medical and other powers of attorney, I realized that I am (as her only child) NO LONGER OBLIGATED to care for her because I do NOT HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO DO SO, I couldn’t if I wanted to. Talk about having the guilt of the world removed from my shoulders when I realized that.
You may be a steel magnolia, but I am morphing in to a cast iron STATUE OF LIBERTY because I am FINALLY FREE to be ME. I can actually give a rat’s behind “what the neighbors think” about who and what I am. I NOW KNOW WHO AND WHAT I AM and I LIKE THE HECK OUT OF THE “OX DROVER!”
She’s a “cool old lady” who is setting boundaries and living life to the fullest with a lot of laughter in her soul and they can laugh at my lard butt up on my Fat Ass or laugh at his long ears, but I’m gonna have the time of my life for the rest of my life!!! (((hugs)))) Oxy
On TV this morning, while discussing a story about young girls being lured into “religious” societies, Mike Huckabee (the former Gov. of Arkansas, for those of us who are not Razorbacks) mentioned Alamo and remarked on how he married young girls, etc etc, and talked about how horrible Alamo is.
OxDrover:
You go girl! Ride those long ears! 🙂 I like long ears. Had friends that carted with them. I am so glad things are going well with you now!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love their names-hysterical! 🙂
Sam Vankin….strange that you should mention that he wrote about Jesus-because that was what our email discussion was about. He is very hostile to Christ/Christianity.
Guns: I have my concealed permit too.
Arkansas, horses, guns and P’s….Oxy, we’ve a lot in common! 😉
Ok, I was not getting the ‘egg donor’ title….we are talking about your mom, correct? My mom is deceased. She was a demanding English woman that I guess I never pleased. I did love her…..I just didn’t have a life to sacrifice to her in her old age………I was busy giving blood to the P’s and the mini-P’s I birthed. ;P
Ok, you statue of iron……*high five to you*. *girl power* as my little two year old grandaughter says! 🙂
Great to know you and great to be in good company! 🙂 Thanks!
Alamo……..reminded me of my x’s father. {may be} LOLOLOL! *shudder*
Dear Chick, THANKS!!!
Twice betrayed, that is the THING ABOUT LF, there are soooo very many things about us all that are so much alike….different ages, sexes, religions, professions, etc etc and from all over the world, and though we have ONE thing “in common,” dealing with psychopaths, we still have other things that are very much alike too. Yea, though, you and I do have a LOT in common. Not too many people are as eccentric as I am, or as gun toting, or as out spoken, and funny thing is I never had any problem standing up to Ps outside my family or close circle of friends, but boy did I attract the Ps in my “inner circle of trust”—even dated one after my husband died. Nearly got my “hook hung” on that one two, 4 months of bliss, 4 months of wondering/crying and another few months of GRIEF! Boy, I missed THAT bear trap.
Yea, the woman who gave birth to me is my egg donor, but except for genetics, she didn’t EARN the title “mother” and I took it away from her. She had me convinced for years though (until about 2 years ago) that she was Mother Theresa and could not lie–actually she could not LOVE, only control. In fact, I think I am probably teh only one who has seen her mask FULLY fall and actually look in to the EYES of SATAN. I have seen it in my P-son, like a magician, and so ahve others, but only me with my egg donor. I’ve seen it with my sperm donor, and LOTS of people have seen it with him. But she is crafty.
The best thing she did for me was to marry my step father, who was a WONDERFUL man. She had him fooled too, but at least he loved me, approved of me and was proud of me, she did none of those things. Funny thing I was never afraid of him, but was of her. After he died though she only got worse and 3 years after his death she was in her prime! Oh, well, her loss We say around here that the “truth will set you free, but first it will pith you off” (Gloria Steinhem I think) and yep it did pith me off to learn the truth and accept it, but it did SET ME FREE.
Lincoln may have freed the slaves, but LF has freed the victims of the FOG (fear, obligation and Guilt) and boy did I have a full plate of all of them. Took care of my step dad though 18 months of cancer out of love, felt like I had to take care of egg donor out of obligation, but NO MORE. she has plenty of money to hire people to take care of her and I have no obligation to do it. I did it out of LOVE for my Daddy (and he earned that title) but won’t do it for her.
Glad you are here Twice Betrayed, I felt all alone being the only one from the mid south, much less arkansas. (((Hugs))))
What are the chances? I went to the mall today and when I got back to my car there was a “Alamo Christian Ministries World Newsletter” on the windshield! On everybody’s windshield. This thing is dated April-June 2003! It has a picture of Alamo with Sonny Bono and Sonny is wearing one of those “designer jackets” and it says “hundreds of motion picture stars, entertainers, recording artists, sports figures, presidents, politicians, kings, queens, princes and princesses” wear Alamo’s jackets.
This thing is 16 pages long, 95% of it is an article called Evil One-World Government Agents Are Claiming To Be United States Agents, then he goes on and on and on about everything including his “Rome conspiracy”.
Inserted into the newsletter is a pamphlet titled Flying Saucers Are End-Time Prophecy, By Tony Alamo” and he is speaking of an experience that he and Susie had with UFO’s. You’d never know she had passed away” or that he is in jail.
They are still having services here, not right in Los Angeles, but about 40 miles north of Los Angeles, which I would consider the “sticks” LOL.
So the ministers of the church are still trying to lure people in, why don’t they print up a new newsletter with the truth?
OxDrover:
I do understand about being strong and then being a victim to the P males. But, you know, I do really get it. Most of the women that I meet/talk to that have been victimized by these P males are strong, intelligent, successful females. [They make that point pretty clear in Women Who Love Psychopaths]. It takes pretty strong males to take us on so that does make us attracted to and attracted by the p males. We can overshadow the more passive males. Really hard to get a middle of the road type of guy. I don’t like males that are wusses at all….I mean geeze, who wants a guy that cannot kill the dang snakes in the barn. 😉
Sorry about your mom! Mine was a tough one to please. I tried to be different with my kids and love them and do everything for them….but I don’t see that it worked any better. LOLOLOL!
Also sorry about your dad. My dad died when I was 21. He was a wonderful gentleman. Just a great person.
I like carrying a gun. I think every woman should be protected in this day and age especially. I guess I don’t look the type much…my younger daughter….oh yeah. One tough gal. Looks like she stepped out of the Victorian era with long curly hair and blue eyes that could melt steel. My P x had those same blue eyes. Liquid blue and so soft and tender looking when he was younger………then as he aged they became reptilian looking. Weird how they changed like that. And he adopted that P stare that he used on females to intimidate them. *shudder* I really think he is a woman hater….I do. He jumps from female to female but he really treats them terrible. Cruel….OMG….at first he’s Prince Charming….and then after he gets you stuck….he’s the Prince of Darkness. But, we all know how the ps operate. Now we do at last. Because we tend to be ‘what you see is what you get’ type of females….this throws us for a loop.
Hope I don’t have too many typos and errors in this…it’s almost 2 AM and I’m typing with one eye shut. 😉 (((hugs)))
Have you ever seen some of those jackets Alamo created? They are cool…no doubt about it. I’ve read all that info. Talked to some people that were in/out of that group. Lot of them are displaced. You know Charles Manson made a statement once that I never forgot. He said he ‘never picked anyone up that society had not already thrown away’. Figure Alamo’s following was based on that too…………
He said he ’never picked anyone up that society had not already thrown away’. Figure Alamo’s following was based on that too——
I have always had a bit of an issue with organised religious groups because of this feeling (mho) that that’s what they ‘do’ (apologies all of you who are members of religious groups no offence to you I know its not all like this)x
I was in a shelter for young homeless mums when I had my daughter and there were always lots of visits from ‘the jesus army’ and other similar groups then when I was working in an elderly care unit, we were often vistited by vicar’s nuns and priests, I have to say some(some, not all, some were invited and genuinly giving comfort) of these people seemed to be ‘trawling for (lost or vulnerable souls) I find it creepy.