Last week Dr. Liane Leedom wrote about the tragic case Dr. Amy Castillo, whose children were murdered by their psychopathic father after several judges issued rulings that failed to protect them. I hope this terrible and extreme case will be a wake-up call for family courts.
Lovefraud frequently receives e-mail from men and women involved in child custody disputes with sociopaths, who hopefully, are not murderers. Here is one of them:
I am involved in a custody case with a sociopath, however, my case is being fought in Europe where I recently relocated to (I am American, he is European). After being the sole caregiver of my children for five years, I had no choice but to leave them with their father and return to the States. When we separated he took their passports and left the country for a year. It was NOT possible to obtain new passports for children without BOTH parents’ signatures.
By the end of that year my financial situation was desperate and I had no choice. I came back to the States, got myself back on my feet and recently I started my own company as a Virtual Assistant, allowing me to work anywhere in the world. While in the States I came back to Europe every six to eight weeks to visit my children. Well one month ago, I relocated back to Europe to live and continue my fight for custody of my children.
The court case had already been ongoing since January and in typical sociopath style he has lied and forged documents. Even so, my ex was recently given sole custody (temporarily while custody is decided) and that I must pay him 900 euros (around $1,300 USD a month!). As if that could not be bad enough, he sends me on a regular basis (the most recent being today) faxes full of lies and accusations that he then turns around and uses as evidence in his court case!!! Furthermore, I do NOT have 900 euros a month to give him. I just relocated and started my own business and this is a real slap in the face with all of the financial damage he has done to me as well as my credit in the U.S.
I have fired my attorneys and hired the best Custody/Family attorney where I live. He has been in practice for 30 years and not lost a case! Also he is known to be a very strong and tough attorney. I wish I would have had him in the beginning. So with this I feel confidence.
The reason I am writing is because although I have a very positive outlook and feel that I am a strong person, as I know that most of you can agree, it is very difficult dealing with a sociopath. When I receive these horrible faxes my stomach just drops and it can make me feel very anxious for hours after. So now I have stopped reading them at all. I do not know what I am looking for by sending this email. I think I just need the support of knowing there are others out there going through the same things as me and that this is manageable and that I will make it through. I would greatly appreciate hearing what others have done in a situation like this. Thank you.
Like most parents fighting a custody battle with a sociopath, this woman faces a difficult times. Below are some general suggestions about child custody and sociopaths.
Get him or her to walk away
If your ex is a sociopath, at best, he or she will be a lousy parent. At worst, he or she will intentionally try to damage your children. Therefore, if at all possible, it may be best to cut the sociopath out of your children’s lives.
You may want to consider offering the sociopath an incentive to walk away. Tell the sociopath to give up parental rights, and he or she won’t have to pay any child support. You may feel that you need the child support payments, but chances are that you’ll never get the money, or it will always be a struggle to get it. The money isn’t worth having the predator in your family’s life. Figure out a way to support your children without it.
Sometimes this works—there are sociopaths who care more about money than kids. But many times it doesn’t, because the sociopath considers children to be possessions. Or, the sociopath just wants to win the battle with you, and destroy you in the process. In those cases, you’ll end up in court.
Tactics in custody battles
I am forever grateful that I never had children with my sociopathic ex-husband. I avoided the most tragic of circumstances involving these predators—a child custody battle. Therefore, the suggestions I make below come from my research and what Lovefraud readers have told me.
If you’re fighting a custody battle with a sociopath, here are some tactics to follow:
1. Document, document, document.
Keep a journal of everything that happens. Often, the craziness is so intense that you don’t want to remember what happens. Your journal will be important when you need to tell a cohesive story of what has been going on with the sociopath, especially if you need to tell it long after events have transpired. Save every scrap of paper, every e-mail, every fax, every receipt. Develop a way of organizing the information, whether chronological, or by topic. Keep copies in a safe place.
2. Have witnesses
It is best not to deal with the sociopath alone; every interaction then becomes he said/she said. Have a trusted friend or relative present during child exchanges or other interactions as much as you can. You may even want to consider tape recording and videotaping some of what goes on.
3. Get your own information
Do not allow the sociopathic parent to control information about your children. Make sure you get information directly from schools, doctors and others.
4. Hire an aggressive, competent attorney
Child custody cases with sociopaths are not normal cases. The sociopath will not play by the rules. Your attorney must understand this. The sociopath will lie in court, although his or her performance will appear heartfelt, like he or she is “just concerned with the welfare of the children.” The sociopath will make outrageous accusations. The sociopath is also likely to retain an attorney who is also sociopathic. Therefore, your attorney must be up for the challenge.
5. Do not allow lies to become part of the court record
Sociopaths lie. Sociopaths lie convincingly. You cannot allow unchallenged lies to become part of the court records. Once they are, they take on the aura of truth, and put you in a very bad position. Some lies, like accusations of child abuse, may haunt you forever.
6. Be cautious in stating that your ex is, in fact, a sociopath
Unfortunately, many judges really do not understand what this means to the welfare of a child. Like the general public, many judges equate “sociopath” with “serial killer,” and may consequently believe that you are overreacting. So it may not be in your best interest to prove that he or she is a sociopath. Focus on proving the behavior.
7. Stay calm in court
You must present a calm, professional image when you go to court, even as the sociopath lies. Do not allow the sociopath to make you emotional. The sociopath will accuse you of being unstable, and you will prove it by your behavior in court. Keep your emotions in check, at least in front of the judge.
8. Make sure court orders are explicit
Insist on detailed court orders. The order should not say, “parent has visitation every other weekend.” It should specify exactly which weekends, starting at what times, returning at what times, who is responsible for transporting children, who is responsible for bathing and feeding them—everything must be spelled out in detail. If there is any ambiguity, the sociopath will exploit it.
9. Make the sociopath abide by court orders
If the sociopath fails to honor the orders, do not cut him or her any slack. Record any violation. Call the police if necessary. Continue to document everything that happens, because you may need to go to court again. If you ever decide that you need to cut the sociopath out of the child’s life, you’ll need evidence to do it.
10. Take care of yourself
You will need all your resources to deal with the sociopath. Therefore, make healthy decisions in your own life. Eat right, avoid drugs and alcohol, get enough sleep, exercise and develop a support network. In order to care for your children, you must care for yourself.
Post your suggestions
I previously reviewed the book, Win Your Child Custody War, on the Lovefraud Blog. This book is full of information that may help you, from how to gather documentation to how to hire an attorney and private investigator.
If Lovefraud readers have any more suggestions that may be helpful to others involved in custody battles with sociopaths, please post it in comments below.
OK! I guess the question I am most concerned with right now is, from what I gather…this will be my life going forwar? That this type of personality, it is just best for me to learn to counter the attacks? Also, I have great documentation of the controlling and irrational behavior…does this even matter in the courts eyes if the support and pick ups are being done?
rtr,
I’m sorry you and your children have to deal with this. Your spath sounds more disordered than mine, but I can tell you that early on I insisted on written communication only and I refuse to listen or speak to him. Recently I’ve started forwarding groups of crazy emails from spath to my attorney, and she responds back to me from a legal perspective, then I forward the email back to spath. This seems to work on a temporary basis to give my son and I some peace since spath is doing his best to upset me, and when he gets the cut and dry email from my attorney telling him what the consequences of his actions could be, he quiets down for a while. My therapist told me I should have my attorney handle all communication, but I simply can’t afford that, and my attorney would not be willing to deal with the volume of craziness that comes from the spath.
I’m glad you are documenting everything. Spaths love the drama they create, so I hope you can remove yourself as much as possible to save your own peace of mind.
Lovefraud has been invaluable to me, the people on here understand and support the others who are dealing with disordered people on a daily basis.
Karmachameleon, you can get the court to assign you a “family wizard” who will be the go between for you and your ex.
See site onemomsbattle. com, her books and their Facebook page One moms battle it’s a wonderful support group for dealing with a ex with children & court issues.
Open a fake email account then a fake Facebook page so that you can chat & ask question without your ex seeing what you are chatting about or his family/friends.
Hi rtr2018…check out the site Onemomsbattle. com, her books & their Facebook page One moms battle.
Open a fake email account then a fake Facebook page that was you can speak freely & ask advise without your ex, his family/friends seeing what you are asking. One moms battle deals with court issues such as divorce & child custody when dealing with a disordered individual such as narcissism or sociopath.
They also have a list of lawyers who understand how to deal with a sociopath in court or if they do not have a lawyer listed for your city just ask on Facebook page if anyone has a recommendation.
Sadly you are not alone in your court battle against a sociopath but their is great support for you to get through the hell of court.
Wishing you all the best!! 🙂
ps google “low contact rule narcissist” to learn how to deal with a narc or sociopath with children. Best thing to do is ONLY send brief emails to your ex stating “you can pick up the children at 5 pm”. If your children are young exchange them at a very public place such as a fast food place avoid exchanging them at your own home unless you have a friend/family member to witness the exchange.
Look into get a court “wizard” to be the middle man between you & your ex so that you have peace in your life from your ex manipulative game playing.
Avoid phone calls with him, text message for several reason 1) you want to document everything for court to show you are a parent willing to work hard so that your children do not have to endure any fighting between parents 2) so that you don’t get sucked into his manipulative game over and over 3) so that you have peace in your life.
Thank you so much. I am afraid of anything getting back to me being as though everything is exaggerated and i honestly don’t how private even my phone conversations are. Having an investigator following my every move is terrifying to say the least.
Again, thank you so very much.
As depressing as it is, yes – he is what he is. He will not change. Keep in mind that his objective is always to get a reaction out of you, so the best thing is to not let him know if he upsets you. Dealing with him should be “just business.”
And the courts – if he is fulfilling his court-ordered obligations, no, they are not concerned about controlling behavior.
The best thing you can hope for is that you become “less fun” – meaning you’re not reacting to his manipulations – so he leaves you alone.
Yes, very depressing to hear. He is and had violated some parts of the order,and our Parent facilitator has very negative things to say about his behavior so, a jury nay have more sympathy than a judge. A jury trial may hurt him more than help him. Possibly. It is very relieving to have an outlet of people to go to, now. I am sure you all understand how threatening and difficult it is to deal with someone like this. It’s even more difficult when spath’s family has money and really dislike you. My poor baby, I worry about this effecting her in the end.
I live in the US and at the advice of a family law attorney have taken my daughter from her emotionally abusive father and his wife, as well as her grandparents. I left him one night years ago when the emotional abuse turned physical. We were together for 12 years.My daughter was 2 and he threw me out in the middle of the night with $15 and a trashbag with whatever clothes I could grab quickly. (We agreed to split 2 weeks earlier after I found out from mutual friends he’d cheated on me for a year and I ended up with the worst proof, an STD. I was given 3 months to have enough money to leave after I was laid off- not fired, as he says). I came back for my daughter and he threatened me with court and my “unstable mental condition” (I was in therapy for his abuse and was released a few weeks after I left) All in all, now I suffer from PTSD, although I am very self-aware and do NOT let it affect my child. It did however, affect the way I dealt with him. I buckled to everything he wanted and for years I’ve lost jobs because of his demands that I pick her up twice a week from school. I live 50 miles away. I also had her only on weekends and since I was “irrational” as he says, he named his mother as mediator, no contact between he and I at all. I’ve been in therapy as of late to again deal with issues as now his mother has been lying through her teeth to my daughter about me, telling her that I was supposed to show up this time and that and that Any didn’t come because I don’t really care. I wasn’t supposed to show up until the next day! My ex’s father has also started telling my daughter she is fat and ugly when he gets upset with her. She is 9 and noone has taken the initiative to watch her eating habits and work through it with her except me. I brought her to her pedi a few weeks ago right before I didn’t return her (we’ve never been to court – did I say that?!) and he made a report to the Department of Children and Families after questioning her. They did not take the case and after a month and a half, I am still waiting to hear why from them. He wants to see her and I don’t want to look bad in court, but I am also not giving her over to this monster and his wife (who gets angry and causes my daughter to be punished if she doesn’t call her mom or mommy in public). I am also wary of her grandparents and her father says he didn’t know about any of this. I agreed to meet at a food place and sit at another table while my daughter sat and visited with dad and grandma (they’ve called to speak to her and keep questioning her as to where she wants to live, go to school, etc) every time she gets a call, she cant sleep and when I prompt her to call them, she does not want to! Anyway, a few calls ago, he bribed her with toys and told me that since it was just her birthday and he didn’t have enough money that he got her a motorized scooter and he was in no way bribing her. Whty not tell her on her bday, then? Well, she told me he’s already gotten her a bicycle and she had a party (which I am not allowed at) and that the scooter wasn’t for her birthday. OK. So he lied and I am NOT facilitating a meeting where he can just grab her and go. He picked a place right off the entrance to the highway he is akes home. I have no attorney, they do appoint one at court if you don’t, but I need advice now and can’t get much without a retainer of at least $5,000. Any suggestions? I am painted as not being in her life when she can even say I have. She has! Unfortunately, she is somewhat brainwashed by them, but not all the way. How lucky am I?! Any advice? I don’t want to be the person who is seen as unstable, but they are painting a gruesome picture, although I hav been recording things, so I think the truth will prevail. I feel hopeless and scared, but I only have to trust that I KNOW I am doing the right thing…Am I? Ugh
What do you do if they are bent on hurting you through the child and won’t back out and the judge rules in their favor even when you have supporting evidence they have consistently lied, and you have no money for a lawyer and no free legal help because of a conflict?
Terry101 – I am so sorry for your situation. It is heartbreaking. Unfortunately, what you are describing happens more often than anyone can imagine when dealing with a sociopath.
Continue to collect evidence. Maybe it didn’t work before, but it may work in the future.
Do your best not to react to your ex, or at least not to let him know that you have a reaction. His objective is to get a reaction out of you. don’t give it to him.
Be the best parent you can be to your child. Kids are smart – they can see who is loving towards them, and who is lying. Be consistent and be there for your child. They can see the difference.
Take care of yourself. Keep building your strength – you never know when you’ll need it.
I wish this were the case. But they’re truly intent on winning at all costs, my reaction would only give them something to use in court but the main objective is winning. And they gain our child’s trust by giving them everything they want and our child has issues that make it difficult to see who really cares.
Sorry I’m so vague but I have a very good reason to be.
Terry101
Unfortunately, even children who recognize who the real parent is, don’t necessarily want to be “parented.”
While a responsible parent will do the heavy lifting involved in raising them and attempting to launch them on a moral, responsible path, the perks and bribes provided by a sociopath can be too tempting for some children. Not all bribery can be overridden with good, parental intent.
Children have the DNA of both parents. And some kids are more easily influenced and manipulated than others.
If you have any friends or family that you can tap to borrow what you need for decent legal representation, it would be in your’s and your children’s best interests. You could also try working with your child through a family therapist who understands the impacts of sociopathic disorder.
All you can do is the best you can do. I know it’s heartbreaking. I’ve been there.
Thanks Jim. I’m afraid my family is limited and none of them have that kind of money either. I actually used a therapist for some time but they moved away. I just got the name of a local therapist someone recommended though and I’m going to see about getting an appointment.
If you would like more information feel free to email me at tcmommabear101 at gmail dot com.
I have an update to my situation and could use some help. My son’s therapist recommended a parenting coordinator because my ex spath will not follow her suggestions and will not follow the parenting plan, and is still being abusive to my son. My attorney advised me to NOT accept this recommendation because this would be nothing more than another route for the spath to abuse me. Turns out the spath had immediately contacted his attorney about this recommendation and filed a motion against me stating I was the reason for the recommendation because I was not cooperating with the therapist, and he was demanding I cover all costs. So again we had to get attorneys involved. The spath had doctored up emails from me and was claiming I also refused to respond to his emails (even though I had the matching emails and responses, etc). My attorney told me that because of what the therapist was saying under subpoena, there would be no way I could avoid having to use a parenting coordinator. Now I have to pay 25% of the cost. I was told that the parenting coordinator offered after hour appointments since I cannot miss work. Turns out she does not. I was told I would never have to have joint sessions with the spath. Turns out I do, at the rate of twice a month. Even though I told the coordinator I am being treated for PTSD and my therapist has advised very clearly I need to keep as much distance as possible from the spath, the parenting coordinator said she didn’t care, she has a procedure to follow and if I don’t participate in the joint sessions she will report me to the court.
My attorney called the coordinator and talked to her about how devastating this would be for me, but the coordinator told her the same thing, she didn’t care and she I would have to follow procedure.
I don’t know what I am going to do. The spath has done everything in his power for 16 years to hurt me, has wiped me out financially more than once, harasses me non stop, is continuing to abuse my son, and now this? I feel completely lost and hopeless.
KarmaChameleon, I am so sorry that you are still living the sociopath court nightmare. They are never ending with their abuse & control. You are right about the spat wanting to “wipe me out financially more” this is what they love to do. So sick & twisted they are!!
I would highly recommend that you open a fake email account then a fake Facebook page (so you can chat freely) and look at the Facebook page One moms battle. Cut & paste your post above on their Facebook page & you will get great answers as to how to deal with this situation.
Also check out their website One moms battle & the site creates two books on divorcing a narcissist. You will see that they are an excellent resource site & wonderful support also.
Donna Anderson here at love fraud wrote up a post not to long ago on One Moms battle so you can do a search up on the top right here at Lovefraud to read her post.
Huge hugs to you.
I was hoping someone here could tell me if they have experience using a parenting coordinator and if they were also forced to do joint sessions with the spath. It’s hard for me to accept that this parenting coordinator is supposedly a mental health professional, who yet once again, has no grasp of how damaging contact with the spath can be for their victim. My son’s therapist is just as clueless to the damage being done to my son. We were down to 18 months left before my son is 18 – now thanks to the therapist’s ridiculous suggestion of the parenting coordinator, the last 18 months could easily become the worst. I am so disgusted at the family court system and the incompetent therapists.
Karma-
Can your attorney file an emergency petition with the judge indicating that your PTSD condition warrants that you not be forced to meet with your ex. PTSD is a DISABILITY. Ask your attorney if they can file for an accommodation based on your disability. Be prepared to submit proof of this condition.
Seems speaking directly to the coordinator will get you nowhere.
I don’t know. I can ask. I’m seeing my therapist next week and maybe she can recommend something. My son’s therapist is the one who told both me and my attorney we should use this particular coordinator because they are ‘friends’ and she knows the coordinator offers after hour and weekend appointments and does not force joint sessions. Both pieces of information are wrong. My attorney believed her as well and advised me to go along with the out of court settlement of the motion filed against me by the spath. My attorney was very surprised that the information was incorrect, and was even more surprised that the coordinator did not care about my situation. The coordinator says she has no ide why my son’s therapist gave me the incorrect information. It seems to me I have some sort of legal basis to fight this since I agreed to something based on a lie, but so far my attorney is telling me I am basically screwed.
We also had to see a court ordered therapist. My ex was claiming PA and the therapist clearly said it was not the case. Now in our last session she says next time he and I have to meet together. I was devastated. I cried and sobbed and said how could I get better if I had to deal with him. Bottom line we have a child. She said if I didn’t do it then it would look like I was not complying with court order and go against me. She promised she would not let him abuse or attack me in the sessions or she would stop them and it would loom bad on him. She said I need to email my ex weekly to give him updates on our son and I need to unblock him on my phone in case of emergencies. I hate this whole process and it only makes the victims (our son included) continue to be tortured.
Bmore – that is awful, awful, awful. I had my own therapist write a letter about how having joint sessions would cause me a great deal of emotional distress and my PTSD would be triggered. My attorney also wrote the parenting coordinator stating that forcing joint sessions was not acceptable and we would go to court to fight it. My parenting coordinator relented and said we could sit in separate rooms. She was fairly shocked to hear about all the abuse my son and I have suffered over the years at his hands, not only physical and emotional abuse, but constant bullying through the legal system. She ended up not scheduling another appointment and it’s been over 2 weeks since our initial meeting, I’m still waiting to hear when the next meeting is going to be.
Do you have a therapist that might be willing to write a letter for you? Having to meet in the same room on a regular basis with a sociopath is beyond absurd and hurtful. Family Law is so broken and the people who make these decisions are so ridiculous and uniformed about the damage they are doing.
You are very right about this being nothing but continued torture. We are down to 16 more months until my son is 18 and I can be done with all of this torment. It isn’t bad enough that I have to deal with the emotional issues, I also have to pay a portion of all visits, even when the spath meets with the parenting coordinator individually. The assaults by the Family Law system just keep coming. The only up side to this is that the spath has been outed to another person, and he has backed off on his abusive behavior towards my son. He also can’t continue filing legal action against me without the parenting coordinator being involved, so it is not likely I will have any more legal issues to deal with until my son is 18 and I can wipe that piece of crap off the bottom of my shoe.
Stay strong, I am sending positive and hopeful energy your way.
Hello all,
I have read some of the posts on this thread and I feel I have something to offer on the topic of custody battles. I have been in divorce litigation with a psychopathic husband for about a year and a half. We have five children ranging in age from elementary school to high school. At the beginning of litigation all the children lived with me. I pretty much single handedly raised our children. My husband’s job changed and he works/lived in a neighboring state and would see us a couple of weekends a month for years now (convenient for him). When I decided I filed for divorce on him he continued to act as though nothing had changed and he should be allowed to stay in the family home during his visits. I put an end to that pretty quickly and when I did he used the children to lobby for him, made visits completely horrific by coming unannounced (if I refused the visits the children would be crying at the door). In other words the visits were just more opportunity to abuse me. So I asked each one of my children with whom they wanted to live. Three said with their father. Now their father promised them they could live with him (of course at some undeterminable time in the future), but it was me standing in the way. These children became extremely resentful of me as they perceived me as standing in the way. I told them that their father hadn’t asked his lawyer, my lawyer or even me to have them. I told them that is the way it is done. Nothing, no facts, made any difference to my children. Meanwhile these unpleasant visits continued. He would take the children to his home and not return them for school, not returning them at the appointed hour, threaten me when I wouldn’t drop everything to run home to get the kids that he was dropping off at some unreasonable hour (2 p.m. on a Sunday), threaten me with the police etc… My youngest son, told everyone in his class he was going to live with his father, the school became so concerned that they called to tell me. I decided enough was enough and I was going to send the three children to live with him. I was going to make good on his promise. So the three children left months ago. Since then, no more horrific visits, no more inroads, no more using my children against me. I have opted out of this scenario all together. I am not going to fight for kids who won’t/unable to say to the judge, “I want to live with my mother” and “my father abuses my mother and I don’t want to have further involvement with him”. Maybe this is a tall order but to get away is major endeavor. I don’t want the abuse to be perpetuated through the children, thereby making monsters out of them, and a never-ending victim out of me. I have saved two of my children. By doing making good on his promise to have some of the children live with him and sending them to live with him, and ensured that the children who stayed with me will continue to. By giving every child the option he has no framework to launch a custody battle-thereby taking the wind out of his sale. If I hadn’t then all the children would be subjected to a custody battle and visitation. Now we don’t hear anything from him on this side. We are living a much calmer more peaceful existence. Just food for thought to those of you in similar circumstances.
In addition, I realize that being a mother, and in my case I was a housewife and that was my job, is part and parcel of your identity and women “give up their children” must by definition be bad mothers and thereby bad people. My own lawyer is a very seasoned attorney and looked askance at me. And I felt my lawyer was judging me. But I knew what had be done. To hell with people who didn’t walk in your shoes and who are going to judge you. You did need to do what you know is the right thing to do and let your ego go and societies expectations go. Fathers are as responsible for the children as mothers. But they get a pass when they actually abandon their children. And their mantra to the next woman “my ex-wife took the kids from me”. Let the kids go where they want to go. I didn’t abandon my children. They made a choice. I even had my one daughter, who was in elementary school, go to the lawyer’s office and write a letter in her hand that she wanted to go live with her father. I was thinking and hoping this formal exercise would make her change her mind, but it didn’t. She wrote the letter and skipped off to her father’s house. A man who never wanted her. Maybe one day she’ll have clarity or not. But I am not going to be the butt of her resentment that I didn’t let her go. Forget the money. It’s not worth it. I am selling the expensive house and I have sold the expensive car and I am reconciled and looking forward to the two bedroom apartment and the bus pass in order to live in peace and decency. All the private schools and trips abroad were not going to make my children respectful toward their mother in a house where they believed that I was holding them back from the parent they loved, their father.
becomingstrong,
this may work for you but it’s not assurance that he can’t still upset your life. A parent could find themselves continually drug into court over child support, medical expenses, etc. We’re never really free until the kids are on their own, and not completely then. They invite both parents to their college graduation, wedding, birth of a grandchild.
Some may be left with no kids who remain and you find yourself completely alone, and it’s a hard reality to face, made worse when you get a notice to appear in court over child support.
Even if our kids don’t respect us, they’ve been trained not to. I want to keep trying to fight that training. It hurts dealing with it, but letting them go to be further brainwashed hurts more. I would always be wondering if I would ever see them again, if they will grow up being taught to hate me. So as draining as it is, this is not an option for me or others.
As much as it feels they don’t respect or love me, I still love them and want to protect them from 24/7 brainwashing even if it feels like I’m losing the battle at times. This is what I feel I need to do even if it causes so much pain. You must do what you feel needs done.
Terry and no more wool,
Look, if you spent thirteen years trying to get temp. Custody I imagine your child is almost an adult and capable of choosing. Sometimes we keep links to the spath b/c we think we have to for the sake of the child, etc. but is that really true? The heroin addict takes methadone to ease the withdrawal shakes, but isn’t the only cure cold turkey. I’ve seen in my own family my adult siblings drift back to my sociopathic father after my mothers death: they were divorced 15 years. Have some faith in your children. People often go to the parent they didn’t grow up with whether that parent was good or bad. No child wants to spend their time with a parent who chooses to be emotionally and financially depleted b/c that parent will not accept that sometimes the better part of valor is walking away. If you are dragged into court, even after staying away, agree to pay what is fair and right. Forget the visitation. Being alone, no children, should not be the driving force for accepting a cancer in your life. I personally let 3 of my children go live with the patent of their choice and after I sat and carefully thought about all the reasons that told me no, I realized the better decision was to let them follow their will and keep them from a parent who is legally entitled to them and with whom they wants to be. It was one of the easiest decisions I’ve ever made. What was remarkable was the alacrity with which they flew to him. As far trying to stave off the brainwashing, there is nothing you can do about that. The spath is going to do it whether you are around or not. Sometimes you need to let go of your end of the rope in tug of war. This is harder for women because society expects us to “fight for our children”.
becomingstrong,
There are a few holes in this. I guess the 13 years and children being gone is referring to yourself? Because for me it has not been 13 years and my children are not close to being adults unless we consider 10 or 12 as adult. That is the age a court will often allow a child to decide.
You mentioned to agree to pay what’s fair. In a courtroom you do not have an option to agree and courts are not always fair. They can order amounts that are extreme and the person isn’t capable of paying. They can even order you to help pay even when they are an adult. They can make you pay college expenses even if you wouldn’t have before.
You also mention that the kids can make a choice like they’re able to make a better choice and that we can’t stop brainwashing. But how can a child being brainwashed make right choices? They are impressionable and have their thinking marred by this and cannot make an informed choice.
Whether society expects it isn’t the factor for many but I know I don’t want my children to grow up emotionally trained to hate me, to live a lie because they didn’t know the truth. And I don’t want to give that kind of control over to be repeatedly drug back in over support, getting hit with large medical bills because the ex took them out of network and said they had to. I don’t want to keep paying lawyers to prove their lies. And I want my kids to have a fighting chance to be taught better. I believe in God’s Word which includes train up a child in the way they should go. We can’t if the child is raised by a bitter and mentally ill person.
Dear Terry,
I was directing some of my comments to NO Wool who said, it took her 13 years in a custody battle. If she spent 13 years in a custody battle how old is the child. My guess is old enough to choose. You don’t have to follow my way. Nobody does. I’m just saying there is another way. I understand how courts work and generally if you don’t have a sociopathic judge they are going to order what’s reasonable. But agree, having been before a very bad judge myself, it can go the other way. Where we disagree is you believe you can battle the bad mouthing. I saw in my own family that I was on the loosing end and 3 of my children were going to believe the spath even if it contradicted what their eyes told them. They hated and resented me, the only parent they ever lived with and who ever did anything for them. They were actually becoming monsters. He told them and they believed that I was keeping them from him. Most people would just continue to shovel sand. It became so appearant to me that the best way was just to let them go. Of course now that he has them he is saying, “I dumped the kids in him.” I’m sure that is what he is telling them too. And now they hate me because I dumped them on him. What’s in it for me? The 2 children I have left live in peace. We all live in peace now. Home is much happier and he has no inroads into my home anymore and I don’t have children who despise me in my presence. We are still in litigation. The judge is seeing that he is a pathological liar and I’m just sitting back and enjoying the show. Your children are 10 and 12. They can voice an opinion. You are convinced that by battling the spath you will be helping your children make an informed choice but I find that very hard to believe. They can’t possibly understand the issues no matter how presented. The only thing I think is realistic is for you to show them that they have a choice and keep your door open. But not try and usher them through.
Becomingstrong, I think you are confusing me with saveerin.
Dear No more wool,
Sorry, it can be confusing to keep everyone’s aliases straight :).
That’s OK, I don’t take anything personally that doesn’t happen in-person. 🙂
Dear Terry,
I want to add to my above post. My Spath told our kids that he wanted them to come live with them and I was preventing it, which was false. But the 3 of my kids got so bad believing this lie that I packed their bags, arranged for and paid for their transportation (he lives in another state), took the 11 year old to my lawyer’s so it could be documented in a letter, in her own hand, that she wanted to go live with her father and that he had said she could and I sent them up. Of course he made no efforts to have them and to this day has not petitioned for a change of custody. But he goes into court as recently as a month ago and says I dumped the kids off on him. I have no doubt that when all is said and done my children who went up believe I dumped them. And there is not a damn thing I can do. But frankly now that all that chaos is out of my life because I personally removed it from my life, I don’t care what they say. My children here with me say everything is better. And it is. They do miss their siblings but they understand what happened and that I couldn’t prevent it (no cognitive dissonance with them). It could be that I end up owing him child support since he has 3 and I have 2 and mind you I do not work and have been a housewife for 15 years. And you know what so be it. I am going to live my life in peace surrounded by people who love me and people who deal in the truth. I will move from a mansion to an apartment. I have already sold one fancy car in this process and can’t wait to sell my other one. My crystal and china and chandeliers etc…, are for sale because they are not important and I don’t want to be tied to a lifestyle that has essentially hemmed me in-I am shedding all that-and so be it. I have shed so much in the last year, children, furniture, plans for the future, and the future it is becoming so big and bright I can’t wait. Every new day is becoming this future. That light at the end of the tunnel is now right in front of me and I am making it happen, not the judge, not him, not kids who don’t appreciate me, me. You have the key to your own jail cell. And when you decide to cut loose your spath and all the strings you’ll find out how much you actually have to offer your children that doesn’t involve courtrooms, lawyers, and unhappiness. But there has to be a willingness on both sides, meaning you and your children, to cut the spath out. And if you think they are too young to make that choice and you think your current path of chaos and misery is how you are going to make them see the light, then you have stronger children than I do and you are wiser than I am. The way I see it is water finds its own level. My second grader who is with me told me her twin sister left to go be with their dad because he buys more toys. I gave her the choice of going up too and she said no. One child could be bought and one child couldn’t-same age same gender. They are both where they need to be and want to be. I gave my oldest the same choice and he is a little different because college is around the corner and I told him that if she went with her father he in the end was going to have much more money than I would and would be able to afford her fancier schools and more opportunities. He chose to stay with me. The other 3 fell hook, line and sinker for cheap Chinese electronic devices, iPads, cell phones, and the opportunity to live in an unsupervised environment, i.e.: no rules, no bedtime, no monitoring of friends, endless allowances…
Becomingstrong,
I’m just going to have to state again that I disagree and leave it there. My kids are not 10 and 12. I had meant they are closer to 10 and 12 and that’s usually about the age courts would let them decide. And my oldest isn’t mentally capable of making such a decision even then as she is mentally handicapped.
I am convinced just not in the way you believe. I’m convinced if the ex had them, the kids are going to be hurt, not just emotionally. I just prefer to protect them from harm at all cost. But I don’t have any cars or crystal or anything to fight court indefinitely or pay any support that would be ordered, and the local courts are not fair on support here.
The ex does the same here. They set no rules and buy everything they want. My oldest is easy to draw in with electronics. It causes problems, especially just after they return. But they still know this is home. Rules here and none there messes up their minds. But they will know who really stood by them later in life no matter how hard the struggle might be now.
Kids don’t know what is good for them. For me it comes down to they’re my kids, I love them and I won’t let them suffer harm because they are impressionable. So I keep fighting the best I can.
Each situation is different and giving up one’s children is not a decision made lightly. In my case, just as I suspected, once the SP no longer had me to use as a target, he began abusing the children. He was given enough rope to hang himself, and eventually abused the children in front of third party witnesses who were willing to testify in court.
I hope your children eventually see their father for what he is and you are able to have a relationship again.
Best of luck to you!
So I won temporary custody after 13 years of his covert abuse but then he walked into court claiming I was a neglectful mother and my daughter was starved for my attention on top of many other lies and all of the sudden his blatant abuse was no longer the issue. I would say this is unbelievable but unfortunately I have dealt w this for 14 years now so I never expected to win. Then he convinced my daughter she would be bullied if she switched schools along w other manipulate tactics so my daughter changed her mind. I’m negative $5000 LAWYERS FEES AND IM ORDERED TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT to my abuser. I pray God kill him and if not him me. I don’t want to deal with this another day. I would rather be dead. 14 years of abuse. Now I have to drop out of college and I cannot afford to pay my bills. fml
I’m so sorry to hear this. I hope your daughter sees the light and is able to escape his clutches.
My husband has filed for joint custody of his daughter. We got a call from Special Victims of our local police department with claims from the mom that I touched his daughter inappropriately. I have been her stepmom for over 5 years now with no allegations of inappropriate activities until the weekend before his temporary court ordered visitation. This allegation comes after she posted on FB that she was being harassed and was going to have someone locked up. The mom tested positive for drugs, and my husband did not. We were going to file for temporary custody until the court date based on that. Now, I am not sure what to do. Help!!! I would never harm my stepdaughter and never spoke negative of her mother. I did ask questions, with permission from her father, about questionable things that have happened to my stepdaughter, who is 7. I recorded those conversations. What should I do?
If it were me and I was accused of molestation. At the very least I would get a good lawyer, tell my husband he’s on his own, and never be around that child not for one nano second. But most probably I would get a good lawyer, move out of the home and tell my husband you won’t be back if he has his daughter in the home. You could be in big trouble and you need to save yourself. Let your husband fend for himself without you facing 10-99 in prison.
The mother conveniently left out that she is in the middle of a custody case. I have all of our conversations recorded for our lawyer, and the detective seemed surprised when we mentioned the custody battle we are in. I have not heard from Children’s Services, only the detective, who said she was recommending the case be closed. This is a very delicate situation. I take my vows to my husband seriously, as does he. It would look bad for me to run from something I haven’t done. There is no evidence of physical assault, and this woman is extremely devious.
Mrs8892411, exactly what I thought. A sudde change could cause a completely opposite reaction and could cause suspicion. Based on what you’ve stated – her failed drug test, the Facebook post (print a copy), that it’s been years and the only allegation comes at this particular time – it will be very apparent and may actually swing things in his favor. You need good documentation. Anything and everything you have. The Facebook post itself is bad enough. Since they are recommending the case be closed, he should continue to file for custody as he planned. This just may work in his favor.
My lawyer just spoke with the detective, and she said the case should be closed tomorrow. As soon as we get official notification of that, we will be filing for custody based on the drug test.
These are extremely serious allegations. You need to save yourself. It doesn’t matter what she said, whether her case is strong or not, what the detective believes or has led you to believe, true or not. You need to leave. You will be left holding the bad, not your husband. Get a lawyer and save yourself. Or talk yourself out of the trouble you are facing and hope everything is okay.