Lovefraud recently received the following email from a man whom we’ll call “Andrew.”
I recently met a lady out of the blue after I had sat at home alone for 2 years. She is the victim of a sociopath—reads & posts on the Lovefraud site trying to heal. She says she can’t tell me all the damage done & I don’t need to know—it’s her business unless she feels she needs to share.
She had cabin fever—had to get out for a night—hence our meeting. Well I had basically given up on finding someone until I met her. We instantly clicked. It was so good for 3 weeks—making plans of fun things to do. I thought it would help her heal—to go have fun again.
I think she started liking me too much in that short period of time—got scared & slammed on the brakes. She says she needs time, but truly values my friendship & adores me. I’m trying to give her “time.” It’s so hard when she lit up my life for a while.
She wants to see me again, but doesn’t know when.
I have no motives other than to get to know her & help her get over the past. She might just be the one if we spend the time to know one another.
I have read the Lovefraud blog trying to understand—some really sad stories.
What should I do?
In the thousands of emails that I’ve received, this is the first time someone has asked this question (which I’ve paraphrased) how do you approach a potential romantic partner when that person has been burned by a sociopath? I appreciate that fact that Andrew cared enough to ask the question.
I will answer the question assuming that everything is exactly as presented—a woman, whom we’ll call Caroline, had a terrible experience with a sociopath and is skittish about opening herself to another man. Andrew honestly likes Caroline, and wants to get to know her better. I will assume that neither Andrew nor Caroline is actually a predator who is looking for a new source of supply.
This, of course, is something that Caroline, and everyone else who has been betrayed and damaged by a sociopath, needs to understand and believe: There are good people in the world. Yes, as many as 12 percent of the population are social predators—sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists, borderlines. But that still means that 88 percent of the world’s people are not disordered, and are capable of having a loving relationship.
Understand where she’s been
So, Andrew, the first thing for you to understand is that Caroline has been through the meat grinder. She’s experienced betrayal that has rocked her to her core. She’s certainly suffered emotional and psychological abuse, and may have also suffered verbal, physical, sexual and financial abuse. In fact, it may be a miracle that she is still standing.
If you’ve never experienced this level of betrayal—most people haven’t—it may be hard for you to believe what she’s gone through. Should she tell you anything about what happened, it may sound like a bad movie, and you may be inclined to think she is exaggerating. I assure you, when someone is involved with a sociopath, anything is possible. I’ve collected more than 3,200 cases, and many of the stories should be made into movies. You can’t make this stuff up.
Caroline, however, is accustomed to not being believed. She may have gone to court and to the police, and they didn’t believe her story. It’s possible her friends or her own family do not believe her. So one of the best things you can do is believe her. It will help her feel validated.
Go slow
Andrew, you will need take things very slowly. It’s likely that the sociopath swept into Carolin’es life in a whirlwind romance—if you call all the time, if you are overly exuberant about wanting to see her, it may set off alarm bells, because that’s how the sociopath acted. Let her set the pace. Keep things light.
Understand that trust needs to be earned. This may be why Caroline got into trouble in the first place—she trusted too readily. Now, she may have gone too far in the other direction, and resolved to never trust anyone again. This is an unhealthy position, because we do need to be able to trust in order to live a good life. But you may not know how much progress Caroline has made in regaining her ability to trust.
So if you want to move forward, you need to be trustworthy. Tell her the truth about everything. Keep your promises. Call when you say you’re going to call, and show up when you promise that you’ll show up. In fact, I hope that’s how you live your life anyway.
It may not work
Finally, it is possible that Caroline simply is not recovered enough to think about another involvement. If she tells you that she really can’t be in a relationship, don’t argue with her, and don’t take it personally. You may just need to accept it and move on.
But if Caroline indicates that does want to get to know you, albeit slowly, getting closer will probably be worth the wait. Before hooking up with the sociopath, Caroline was probably loving, giving, caring, responsible, dynamic and empathetic—because that’s the type of person that sociopaths target. So if she’s able to find herself, and open herself—well, it could be rewarding for both of you.
Lovefraud readers: If you have any more suggestions for Andrew, please post them.
Thruthspeak, I have a low tolerance for meddlesomeness myself.
I am a single child, thus learned to rely on myself since I was born to decide what to do. I also never belonged to a clique or group in either elementary school or high school (they didn’t want me and I didn’t want to be part of that clique behaviour either), while it was lonely and had its own wounds of which the spath was the last of the growing pains I guess, it also is a part of why I always have been a very independent personality. My mother was never meddlesome. My dad was to some extent: he wouldn’t act for me, but he feared that since I had his temperament I was too much liek him and he constantly advized me preemptively against certain behaviour that could get me in trouble (he was trying to prevent me from making the same mistakes he made in his young life). This has always been a point of strife between us: him telling me what I shouldn’t do in a hypothetical situation, and me being ired for him thinking I’d do something that stupid. There’s a tape of my toddler years where I tell stories, and my parents interview me… but it also contains a sudden fight between him and I. It’s been tough on my father but he has learned over the decades to bite his tongue… LOL.
My independence has always been my most cherished ability. I’ve never sought a parent in either my friends nor my lovers for that reason, and would not abide by it if they behaved in such a way.
Alive,
I wrote a series of articles here on LoveFraud about the process of healing from these relationships. They are based on an adaption of the Kubler-Ross grief model, which darwinsmom mentioned to you.
I wrote them so that people could understand what they were going through, but also so they could see ahead and know what to expect as they progressed through healing. They’re like a map.
You might find them helpful. They’re listed under my name in the author’s list on the right-hand column.
You sound like you’re moving through this. It’s hard, I know. But it get easier, and more rewarding. In the end, you’re better, stronger and smarter than you were before all this happened. All this pain is transformed into the most extraordinary learning.
Strange as it might sound today, you can trust in this process. It is a good thing.
Love —
Kathy
Kathy,
nice to “read” you! It’s been so long since we’ve been graced with your presence!
You are the one who taught me about boundaries. It seems impossible to me that I didn’t even know what they WERE! Nobody taught me. My family didn’t do boundaries.
I was talking to my mom the other day. I said, “BF demands that I knock before entering any room that has the door closed.” She said, “well as long as he does the same.” I replied, “YES! he won’t come in until he hears me say: come in”
That might sound weird to you, but in my family we just barged into any room. The bathroom had a lock and you ALWAYS LOCKED IT or anyone could just walk in.
We discussed that, mom and I. We’ve never discussed issues of privacy before. Spath and I never had any door knocking either. Boundaries and privacy were just not on my radar. That’s how abnormal we were in my family. Boundaries were a foreign idea for me.
I propose to you that many other people have issues with recognizing boundaries — of many kinds.
BF knocks but doesn’t recognize emotional boundaries very well. I’ve been teaching him. good luck to me.
I know your are very busy, but the comments on this article are the greater part of the wisdom. The posters are very wise. They understand from experience, that human beings are flawed. Flawed like I was, before you told me about boundaries. I hope that you take the time to read these comments on this one thread.
The comments are not about spaths or about Andrew. They are really about boundaries. I’m still learning about that. It’s so new to me. There’s so much to know. And it’s SO important that we recognize when the boundaries are being broken. Not because of spaths, but because of us.
Skylar, I agree that the responses aren’t necessarily “about” spaths or the author of the email. My take on this discussion, as it pertains to me personally, is that it IS about boundaries – my boundaries.
I’ve typed this, before, but it can never be understated how the spaths were able to work their ways in. I never had boundaries, although I knew what the word meant, academically. I believed that my “boundaries” were reasonable, but the guilt and shame cores that I developed were what caused me to “feel” badly about even constructing healthy boundaries for myself and others. If I didn’t let someone “slide,” and give them the “benefit of the doubt,” I was being MEAN or JUDGMENTAL. Well, it’s not “mean” to recognize toxicity and prevent it from entering my world. I didn’t realize this, at all.
The spath experiences were necessary for me to see this truth and for me to confront my damaged “inner child” so that I can literally (at this late stage) learn about boundaries, and how to construct them.
Today, I don’t care if anyone views me as standoffish, or exclusive. I’m not on this planet to see to everyone else’s happiness or well-being. And, it’s taken me my entire lifetime to “get it.”
Kathleen, it IS good to “read” you and your articles never lose their value for me. Talking about the dynamics of grief, healing, and recovery is vital, especially when it addresses the fact that healing and recovery isn’t “all about Them.” My healing and recovery is all about me and my issues that landed me here, in the first place. No, it’s not excusing the exspath, at all. But, there are issues that I must address about myself or risk yet another spath entanglement. And, I’m sick and tired of FEELING sick and tired – so, my choice is to learn, recover, and heal, or; whine, moan, and groan, and pick up another spath to “rescue” me or one that needs “rescuing.” Nope, nope, nope…..
As a COMPLETE aside from this discussion, I met someone that I had known, years ago, at my job. She has a degree in psychology and worked at a center for at-risk teens and lost her job to “restructuring.” But, I asked her about support services in this County (or, the lack thereof). There may be “A Reason” that we were thrown together, but I’m moving very, very slowly in the direction of “making friends.”. It may be that she and I can facilitate a support group for victims of domestic violence in this County, but I really have to tip toe on this for a good while.
At any rate, I’m grateful that I found LoveFraud and that we’re all working to heal ourselves from our experiences. I haven’t really read one post (except by trolls) that ask for someone to “fix” their issues for them. Every reader that has posted has demonstrated a keen interest in healing themselves FOR themselves, and under their own power. It’s encouraging to me, and I’m getting there, one nanometer at a time.
Brightest blessings
Kathleen Hawk,
Thank you for letting me know. I am intending on moving forward. I also believe that forgiveness is totally key to release the torment from oneself. In my eyes it is a must….
It has been several months since I had contact with him and I intend on keeping it that way! Not to say the memories don’t flood in sometimes….I often wonder, did I really like this sociopath??? Do I like them? I pray I never run into one again! It was truly a lie and addicting just like a drug. So very strange!
(((( hugs )))))
Alive!
Hi It’s me Lillian” don’t know how i missed the part about not being believed. OMG that explains so much. You see the few people i have around me do believe me. but we’re talking a number of friends I can count on one hand. The rest of my “friends,” or “family” are so distant, cold & repeatedly tell me things I know! I am 50 years old for gods sake & my mother told me that I was in over my head. I had to tell her to to stop it so she hung up. First time ever for us. Previously I had hung up on my father -we’ve never gotten along but he did try & help me at one point. His issue? That he’d realized or decided that I wasn’t going to have him paid back before he died. He goes on to tell me that I’m getting to old to get hired, & that I should give up my kids to my ex since i can’t afford them, sell my car & then i don’t know what but give up essentially. I wrote him an email & for the first time in 50 years told him my experience with him & what i didn’t like about what he did & does.
Both of these things felt disrespectful but i couldn’t take getting beaten down by my own parents time & time again. The spath left in August 2007. It’s been years. True, the crap is still hitting the fan. my house finally fell to foreclosure, the second lender attached my bank account, & i’m living in an industrial space but I don’t think there’s much else left. Except the IRS but they may as well put me in debtors prison because i have nothing. Blood from a stone, whatever you want to call it but there is nothing left for me to give or for anyone to take. But, it never really occurred to me that the “friends” & “family” didn’t or don’t or won’t believe me as to what happened. That’s why they’ve become distant, or are cold when I see or talk to them. The few around me who do believe actually saw it all happen or were with me & heard the day to day sequence of events from me as it happened. It makes me angry because why would I make this stuff up? How could I make this stuff up?
Before he left the spath called all my family including my ex husband & told them I was unstable, an alcoholic (he is the alcoholic actually), was addicted to drugs, & was physically destructive to myself & property. I really haven’t had much contact with any of them since. They all know the story though now but have gone essentially quiet. IT’S BECAUSE THEY DON’T BELIEVE ME. Okay last blow.
I’m trying to interview again & find a job to call home. If people don’t believe us we can’t make them. We know what the truth is. We lived it. We have the wounds & the scars to prove it. We have to rise like a phoenix out of the ashes. We have to start over. We will never be the same. Which can be a good thing. I don’t want it to change me entirely. I did like who I was. But the spath was looking for that person. That’s the part that’s unbelievable. How an intelligent, educated, successful woman can get sucked down a rabbit hole & lose everything in less than six years. There are moments when I don’t believe it myself. Love to all Lillian
OFF TOPIC BUT HELLLLLLLLLLLP!
SCAPEGOAT SCAPEGOAT – I’M SICK OF BEING A SCAPEGOAT!!!
My anxiety level is 10 out of 10.
Going back to my hypnotherapy program and oh my god!!!!
First week the replacement instructor was cruel to me beyond words…I got her messages to me in the class LOUD AND CLEAR. I do not know WHY I was singled out by her but I was, it ended in disaster because I SPOKE UP. Abusive…she was. And I sat weak and sick in her class all the while. At the end, I had to speak up and tell the director I could not learn under that woman.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh Never tell anyone anything…it will all make you fall on your face. If you see injustices…SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!
Now, I’m known as not COOPERATIVE (about her) and then the replacement intructor’s BOYFRIEND comes in to class to supposedly do a section on Self Hypnosis. But, on this Friday, after a long grueling week and 2 exams that day…he comes in at the end of the day and instead of giving us (women) a lesson on SELF HYPNOSIS, which we all stayed late to learn – he freaking talks about sex hypnotherapy and all these damn fkn women he’s met who BLAH BLAH BLAH I am done!!!!! FOR TWO PRECIOUS HOURS!
I leave at 5:30 pm saying I have another ‘thing’ to do (LIKE STUDY FOR A REAL CLASS) and then…BANG!
The director calls me later that night and says I have issues with 2 PEOPLE AND THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT! (I never told her I had an issue with boyfriend…but HE MUST HAVE SAID SOMETHING TO HER!) She said I am DISTRACTED and should take some time. WTH?
DISTRACTED!!!! What the hell do I say???? I mean, I do not like her two replacement instructors, I find them to be too involved in talking about sexual hypnotherapy – which I have ZERO interest in – and yet somehow, someway…I AM DISTRACTED!!! That guy was so off topic it was all I could do to stay (pleasantly) for the two hours of attention I did give him!
I never learned a damn thing about Self Hypnosis. I was tired. The exams that day were tough (but I passed with an 87%). THERE IS NO WAY NO HOW I SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE TO LEAVE!
But the director insisted, at 8:00 pm that night over the telephone, and said come back at the end of the next group and just slip on in as if nothing happened.
Well what did happen?
What did Instructor #1 and Boyfriend #2 SAY TO THE DIRECTOR TO HAVE HER CAUSE ME TO LEAVE!!??
I didn’t even tell her about the boyfriend who DID NOT TEACH SELF HYPNOSIS AND WAS SO FKN SELF CENTERED HE THOUGHT I WANTED TO LISTEN TO HIS SEXCAPADES!
Should I tell her? OR I ONCE AGAIN SHOULD I COME OUT BEING THE DISTRACTED ONE who probably just can’t get along????
I’m sorry if I am not clear in the above post. I am not feeling clear. I am petrified of being the scapegoat for instructors who are wholly incompetent. But who am I to say? I am just a lowly student who is dispensable. I am NOT DISPENSABLE! I need this certification!!! I need to get self-employed because at my age, no one is hiring old human resource managers!!!
I gave up a lot to attend this program.
I am tired. Tired of feeling like an easy scapegoat.
Now it will be easier than ever for them to blemish my name. With two of them…
I am a liar, cheat and thief (mother’s words) – just like my dad. But I AM NOT!! I am so sick of fighting for my GOOD NAME!
Do you know? Do you understand? Am I beyond help?
I am sick. For worrying about this so profusely.
Guilt, shame, no voice, a trouble maker…but but..but PLEASE LISTEN!!! No, they won’t.
I have these great friends (I remind myself). These people have stood with me through thick and thin. They are real people with real careers and lives – and for some damn reason – they think I am a good friend.
I am trying to think of a reason why I am scapegoat over and over and over in my life.
Why do I end up feeling so worthless whenever I open my mouth about CRAP GOING ON!
Sorry. Had to vent.
Very tired. Very afraid of this next two weeks.
P.S. I have been very humble and quiet (compared to what I could/should have been with those two instructors)…HONEST…I somehow think I was too meak and mild and THAT, my friends, is who makes a GREAT scapegoat.
Like my landowner, I am renting, and told her I would be away for two weeks. She says she is coming IN MY HOME every other day to make sure their are no leaks.
NO LEAKS? I’ve been here 2 years and there has NEVER BEEN A LEAK.
Now I let her tell me this shit. Quietly. But I am FUMING INSIDE. So I phone her and tell her I am not comfortable with her coming into my home; that if I wanted I would have a friend check up on the place. I set my boundaries…BACKFIRE!!!
She goes off on me and I wither away.
Like a slug.
Speaking Up
I’m sorry this happened!
But here’s a bit of info you might like: you don’t need someone to teach you to self-hypnotize. If you want to learn I advize you to go to the library and search for some books on it, or books on creativity.
When I did my final theoretical paper on creativity in literature, I ended up lending a pile of books from a psychologist colleague of my mother, and most of these books contained some explanations on self-hypnosis as well as techniques and texts you could dictate for a tape recorder (or digital recorder these days). I used a text that sounded workable to me and dictated it myself, played it and used it.
Basically the text told me to slow my breathing, then focus on my toes and feel them tingle as if I was stepping into warm water, and then the tingling going slowly up, describing sensations for each limb and organ all the way to the tip of my nose and crown of my head.
Self-hypnosis basically is meditation. I started to experiment later on with tapes where I entered in some garden or world, or a tarot card. That’s how I learned to travel while meditating. It’s during meditation travel that I learned the deepest insights about myself and my life.
When you do the self-hypnosis often enough at some point you won’t need a tape anymore. You can go under just by willing it, while laying your head down.
I refrained from ever going to courses because I didn’t want to hand the power to hypnotize me to someone else, but myself. I did however ended up doing small group meditations (no more than 4 people), but we would all be under and all experiencing our own meditation trip and yet sharing it and helping each other out when someone got stuck in their story. But there never was a ‘leader’ or ‘master’ in these sessions.
As for scapegoating! Yes, it happens a lot. And the scapegoat often is the whistle blower. I’m sorry. In my experience blowing the whistle requires calm and strategy. The best strategy is often when you’ve had enough time and days to think very factual and cool about it, rather than upset, angry and annoyed.
When I feel someone is trying to use me as a scapegoat, I come here and post about it, so I can distance myself somewhat and brainstorm my way through it. Not sure if you still will end up going to the classes of these narcistic clowns, but perhaps you can record part of their classes for later reference and evidence if need be?
Speaking up,
((((hugs))))) Okay, take a breath…breathe….in….out….in…out and repeat slowly.
Nice hot bath, cup of tea, carb load (cookies) or whatever helps you relax and then…get some rest. Put this temporarily out of your mind..ask yourself WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT THIS **THIS** MINUTE? And the answer to that is there is nothing youcan do about that THIS MINUTE…so spend your time right now, tonight, just taking care of you.
Sure, it feels rotten when people pick on us, bully us, defame us…make us out to be lairs when we are telling the truth…but you have NO Control over those people. NONE! ZIP! ZERO! ZILCH! NADA!!!!
But you DO have control over how you respond to them.
With the woman going into your house every two days to “check for leaks” ?????? Set boundaries. “my friend will keep an eye on my place, but thank you.”
But for NOW just breathe….in and out…rinse and repeat ((hugs))) and God bless.
Lillian,
Sorry that your family and “friends” have turned their bcks on you like that…but it is typical of those “fence sitters” who don’t want to get involved, or who are way too ready to tell us how to run our lives.
Hang tough! You WILL survive! ((hugs)))