Lovefraud recently received the following email from a man whom we’ll call “Andrew.”
I recently met a lady out of the blue after I had sat at home alone for 2 years. She is the victim of a sociopath—reads & posts on the Lovefraud site trying to heal. She says she can’t tell me all the damage done & I don’t need to know—it’s her business unless she feels she needs to share.
She had cabin fever—had to get out for a night—hence our meeting. Well I had basically given up on finding someone until I met her. We instantly clicked. It was so good for 3 weeks—making plans of fun things to do. I thought it would help her heal—to go have fun again.
I think she started liking me too much in that short period of time—got scared & slammed on the brakes. She says she needs time, but truly values my friendship & adores me. I’m trying to give her “time.” It’s so hard when she lit up my life for a while.
She wants to see me again, but doesn’t know when.
I have no motives other than to get to know her & help her get over the past. She might just be the one if we spend the time to know one another.
I have read the Lovefraud blog trying to understand—some really sad stories.
What should I do?
In the thousands of emails that I’ve received, this is the first time someone has asked this question (which I’ve paraphrased) how do you approach a potential romantic partner when that person has been burned by a sociopath? I appreciate that fact that Andrew cared enough to ask the question.
I will answer the question assuming that everything is exactly as presented—a woman, whom we’ll call Caroline, had a terrible experience with a sociopath and is skittish about opening herself to another man. Andrew honestly likes Caroline, and wants to get to know her better. I will assume that neither Andrew nor Caroline is actually a predator who is looking for a new source of supply.
This, of course, is something that Caroline, and everyone else who has been betrayed and damaged by a sociopath, needs to understand and believe: There are good people in the world. Yes, as many as 12 percent of the population are social predators—sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists, borderlines. But that still means that 88 percent of the world’s people are not disordered, and are capable of having a loving relationship.
Understand where she’s been
So, Andrew, the first thing for you to understand is that Caroline has been through the meat grinder. She’s experienced betrayal that has rocked her to her core. She’s certainly suffered emotional and psychological abuse, and may have also suffered verbal, physical, sexual and financial abuse. In fact, it may be a miracle that she is still standing.
If you’ve never experienced this level of betrayal—most people haven’t—it may be hard for you to believe what she’s gone through. Should she tell you anything about what happened, it may sound like a bad movie, and you may be inclined to think she is exaggerating. I assure you, when someone is involved with a sociopath, anything is possible. I’ve collected more than 3,200 cases, and many of the stories should be made into movies. You can’t make this stuff up.
Caroline, however, is accustomed to not being believed. She may have gone to court and to the police, and they didn’t believe her story. It’s possible her friends or her own family do not believe her. So one of the best things you can do is believe her. It will help her feel validated.
Go slow
Andrew, you will need take things very slowly. It’s likely that the sociopath swept into Carolin’es life in a whirlwind romance—if you call all the time, if you are overly exuberant about wanting to see her, it may set off alarm bells, because that’s how the sociopath acted. Let her set the pace. Keep things light.
Understand that trust needs to be earned. This may be why Caroline got into trouble in the first place—she trusted too readily. Now, she may have gone too far in the other direction, and resolved to never trust anyone again. This is an unhealthy position, because we do need to be able to trust in order to live a good life. But you may not know how much progress Caroline has made in regaining her ability to trust.
So if you want to move forward, you need to be trustworthy. Tell her the truth about everything. Keep your promises. Call when you say you’re going to call, and show up when you promise that you’ll show up. In fact, I hope that’s how you live your life anyway.
It may not work
Finally, it is possible that Caroline simply is not recovered enough to think about another involvement. If she tells you that she really can’t be in a relationship, don’t argue with her, and don’t take it personally. You may just need to accept it and move on.
But if Caroline indicates that does want to get to know you, albeit slowly, getting closer will probably be worth the wait. Before hooking up with the sociopath, Caroline was probably loving, giving, caring, responsible, dynamic and empathetic—because that’s the type of person that sociopaths target. So if she’s able to find herself, and open herself—well, it could be rewarding for both of you.
Lovefraud readers: If you have any more suggestions for Andrew, please post them.
Actually it seems to me that Andrew is going beyond his boundaries in coming to a place “she” is suppose to get help…. That also is a breach of privacy. Especially when she says she needs space??? Perhaps she mentioned this place to get him to understand what she was going through and WHY she had to go slow??? If he didn’t have ears to hear her why would she even go back? I know for me IF someone can’t hear me and I have tried to explain it then it is a no go! As far as I am concerned he didn’t give her space at all but rather invaded on her so called private life…by coming here. How is she suppose to post here now?
Then again maybe there should be a place for people that are trying to date others that have been abused by sociopaths. Obviously Andrew meant well…. No disregards for him in the least other than he doesn’t seem to know to give her space. He stated he had read many of our post yet, he still doesn’t understand the grief of those who have been through the fire of lies and manipulation? I think it would be very interesting to have a blog for those who need help with us as wounded soldiers.
Donna, I’m sorry about putting Andrew in as a 3rd person…but I feel that he is going out of boundaries with Caroline.
I believe it was irresponsible to post an article such as this. In this context.
The content is valid, but the aproach was irresponsible.
If perhaps Donna had chosen to approach this from a completely annonymous perspective, I don’t believe the accusations or triggers would have been set off.
If, per say, it was an article about ‘how’ to offer support to a love interest healing from a toxic-spath experience WITHOUT mentioning a LF poster anonymously…….that would have been appropriate.
But, mentioning ‘someone’, another poster???? Was SHE contacted and okay’d this article?
It’s like the reaction you get from others when you walk into a room and announce…..”I know a secret”……
depending on where each person is in their life at that moment, those who hold secrets think they are about to be exposed, and each person reviews in their head….OMG what did I share with this ‘secret holder’, are they pregnant, did they get a promotion???. Everyone get’s agitated…..it’s the nature of the game.
The ‘secret’ here is ….who is Caroline….and could it be ‘me’.
That trigger was set from the first sentence.
Nobody wants to open their heart up on LF, only to have their perceived ‘safe’ space viiolated or intruded upon by an ‘outsider’.
(even though LF is a public forum, we choose to keep anonymity, based on our usernames etc…)
Many use LF as a secondary (or primary) therapist/support group. How would we feel if our ‘potential romantic interests’ made an apt. with our therapists office or walked into our support (in person) groups to get dating advice on how to ‘help’ us……uninvited.
I feel like…..If I WANT your help….I’ll ask you….IF I want you in my business….I’ll invite you.
I’d be mortified if I was (formerly)dating this person, quite frankly and it would certainly not go any further.
I’d feel as if I don’t measure up to ‘where’ HE thinks I should be. So what, does he step in if he feels I am not parenting my children up to his standards, or offering them the love HE desires I should be offering them?
It’s a touchy subject.
Bottom line is……If it’s not right, it’s not right! Whether it be timing or space and time. IT”S NOT RIGHT!
This is an Utter and total boundary violation. Regardless if it was ‘intentional’ or not. He was NOT invited to ‘help’ her.
He stepped in front of her to ‘help fix her’, so he could attain her.
WTF?
I also get how the fairytale believers see this as ‘romantic’, nice and something they’d kill for in a romantic interest.
I personally do not believe in fairytales. I believe in love and have faith in some people and believe there are trustworthy, good people in the world…..but Andrew, whatever your intentions, this is NOT a good start!
There were many other routes Andrew could have taken, there are many books addressing the subject, he could have sought out his own private therapist.
He could have lurked on LF and just read, if LF was something she had mentioned to him, that has been a great support group for her.
Articles are offered, we read and offer comment from our perspectives.
I think most of the comments on this topic have been valid perceptions.
I don’t think the perceptions are ‘unique’ to this community.
The way it was presented to us, definitaly wreaked of the creepy factor.
The only good advice that could be given to Andrew is, back off and allow her the time SHE needs to heal. PERIOD.
I’m not surprised at the triggers and anger this has created in our LF community.
This articles *approach was an EPIC FAIL!
This statement also bothers me:
“I think she started liking me too much in that short period of time—got scared & slammed on the brakes. She says she needs time, but truly values my friendship & adores me. I’m trying to give her “time.”
Andrew THINKS she started liking him too much??? So she put on the BRAKES??? She values his friendship and ADORES HIM? And he is TRYING to give her time???
Try harder cowboy. Now I’m getting nervous for your soulmate.
I’m just trying to reconcile all of this; A woman he dated for three weeks fell for him so hard and fast it scared her away so she broke up with him. He somehow picked up that she is a member of Lovefraud – so instead of granting her wish for space, he invades it.
The word ADORE is just plain weird. If I am putting the brakes on someone I’m not saying I adore them.
Just sayin,
I said earlier that I am not very trusting. But I am learning to trust my own instincts. I think Caroline is too.
(((hugs)))
REMEMBER…..there is a lesson in here LF Friends.
LF is a PUBLIC forum…..anyone can come here…..our ex’s, spaths, trolls, heathy and unhealthy persons alike. Monsters, children, Seniors…..or people just using us a beta testers.
Keep a bit of anonymity in your posts. And IF you value your LF support community…….NEVEER tell anyone you post here.
Through the years, I’ve only told my gf’s that I ‘blog’. I’ve never been specific.
I’ve shared LF articles and information with others, but never telling them that I have posted here.
PHRASE OF THE DAY……Loose lips sink ships!
I have to give Donna an A for actually showing the other side of the spectrum. But again this is only half of the story. … In which I am sure the other party would have some things to say…
I also would not say this is an EPIC FALL…. but obviously this man doesn’t know when to stop invading this woman’s space.
I think Donna needs to provide a bit more clarification. I understood Andrew to be quoting what Caroline had told him when he said that she valued his friendship and adored him and that’s what led him to conclude that she was liking him too much too fast and slammed the brakes on. Also, Caroline didn’t completely close the door, she left it cracked when she said that she wanted to see him again but didn’t know when so this left Andrew with some hope. Once again, I am NOT blaming Caroline but we HAVE to be able to step inside Andrew’s shoes for a second here, too. And, I realize that I am much further along in my healing than a lot of posters here and maybe not as quick to conclude that everyone eagerly pursuing a romantic relationship with someone is a sociopath…as I once did. Every man or woman who falls fast and hard is not a sociopath. I’m sure we’ve all met people that we’ve felt comfortable with from the first meeting that have been our good friends for years now. Sociopaths aren’t just limited to romantic partners. They come in the form of friends, co-workers and even family. And, all of us display a few of the characteristics ourselves from time to time. I remember when I first started reading the description of sociopaths on medical sites, actually backing up a few times and questioning whether I might be a sociopath! Or, I’d think of someone else who I had witnessed display some of the signs at one point or another but it did not mean that I nor they were sociopaths. As Donna said, there are a lot of GOOD people in the world.
Point taken Tami. Well said.
However, there is often a sexist slant when dealing with male spaths and female survivors and vice versa.
I want to turn the tables / reverse the situation – and ask for your thoughts:
Caroline dates Andrew for 3 weeks and falls hard. Andrew is feeling like backing down and tells her so. He has a health issue and mentions he blogs on a certain website.
After Andrew breaks up with Caroline (or puts the brakes on), he carries on with his day to day business…never giving her a second thought. He was polite and says “for now I just need my space.” (Is that the crack that allows her to follow him on websites?). Caroline continues to email Andrew to find out what it means…”Time and space.” Andrew finally says, “It means no contact.”
So, after failing miserably at getting Andrew’s attention via emails, Caroline shows up on the health board Andrew once mentioned and asks the boss of the health board for advice on how to get through to Andrew…because, she says, Andrew really does adore her. He’s just messed up from his health issue and she is really just trying to figure out how his mind works.
The boss of the blog, where Andrew had been comfortably posting for a couple of years, posts her letter – and backs Caroline’s claims to simply wanting to help out ole damaged Andrew.
Andrew is mortified.
Was he being stalked?
I also want to add…”Lest We Forget”
Tami, Andrew clarified what happened himself in his explanation post: ” She told me she needed “time & space ” ”“not much but some & cancelled our next date. maybe we’d see each other the next weekend. Perfectlly understandable. This lady has a lot to deal with & by no means do I want to be an added pain or greif to her. Here is where I really screwed up. I responded with a few emails assuring her I understand & also did a couple of texts. Good morning-good night. In these emails I asked what she wanted me to do”“I think here is where not communicating came in. I swear I didn’t fully understand what ” time & space” meant. I was asking her to tell me . Think That pissed her off as I found out ” time & space ” means no contact. Thats where we are now for close to a week & I’ll respect & understand her wishes.”
The conclusion is that she told him that “time and space” = “no contact” over a week ago, after he texted and emailed several times (and which she ignored) after she had already requested “time and space” and had canceled a date. “No contact” is not leaving the door open at all. There is no ambiguity in that wording.
So I Just got my things shipped from school. I feel like a failure now. I wanted so bad to go to school and now I have to start from scratch. My dad says he will get me back in school but I have to get better. He Put me in a mental hospital earlier. He says I hear voices and that I’m schizophrenic. He claims that I talk to myself and has me on medication. I’m not schizophrenic and the doctors arent making me better. I’m trying to get straightened out here but he seems to have people think there’s something wrong with me. He had my friend call me to tell me that she took a semester off and worked at the grocery store. So I need to work while I’m in school. I dont mind but it’s difficult finding a job. I wish he knew. How do I get straightened out? Please don’t send me mean advice. As if I deserve to put out of school!!! I’ve been through enough verbal abuse.