Sociopaths are social predators who live their lives by exploiting people. When you’re the person who has been exploited, how should you respond? Do you try to hold the sociopath accountable? Or do you cut your losses and walk away?
Lovefraud is an open forum, with many people expressing opinions about what you should do. In the past, some folks have posted comments saying give up, run away, don’t fight, you can’t win.
I don’t necessarily agree with that. Yes, in some cases, fleeing is the best course of action. But sometimes the only way to survive is to fight. Or sometimes standing up to the sociopath enables you to reclaim yourself, even if you don’t win the battle.
I believe you should do what is best for you. But figuring out “what is best” may be difficult. You need to carefully evaluate the entire situation before deciding what, if any, action to take. The following considerations may help you.
If you suffered financial losses:
Do you have documentation that the sociopath promised to repay you? If you don’t have an agreement in writing, it will be very difficult to pursue your claim. The sociopath may argue—convincingly—that the money was a gift.
Does the sociopath have any money, property or assets that you can go after? Does he or she have a job? If the sociopath has nothing, there may be no point.
How much will it cost you to go after what he or she owes you? Is the amount of money taken from you worth the trouble it will be to get it back?
Can you use small claims court? The good news about small claims court is that you don’t need to pay for an attorney. If the sociopath owes you more than the dollar limit for small claims cases, perhaps you can break it up into several different claims. Again, you will need documentation.
Even if you won’t be able to collect, you may want to file a lawsuit against the sociopath just to expose him or her, or create a public record. This does, in a way, hold the sociopath accountable, even if you are never repaid.
Criminal behavior:
Is the sociopath engaged in criminal behavior? Is the sociopath dangerous? Can you report the behavior without jeopardizing your own safety? Are you willing to cooperate with law enforcement agencies? Or, is there a tip line where you can report the behavior anonymously?
Would your conscience bother you if you did not report the behavior?
If the sociopath is accusing you of criminal behavior, you must fight. Do not admit to any criminal behavior that you did not commit. A criminal record can ruin your life.
Children with a sociopath:
Having children with a sociopath is a nightmare. The best thing that can happen is for the sociopath to go away. You may want to offer a deal if your former partner will give up parental rights, you won’t ask for child support. Usually this deal won’t cost you anything, because sociopaths drag their feet on paying child support.
Many sociopaths, however, will not give up parental rights. They want to use the kids to continue to control you.
The issues involved in co-parenting with a sociopath are incredibly complex, and beyond the scope of this article. So here are just a few suggestions:
- Document everything. Keep very good records of everything that happens. Save every text, email, receipt and record. You never know what you will need.
- During a custody case, do not let any false claims that the sociopath makes about you go unchallenged in court. If you do not challenge the lies, the statements become part of the court record and will cause problems for you later.
- Make your custody agreement as comprehensive as possible. Then, you follow it to the letter and demand that the sociopath follows it.
As Quinn Pierce wrote in her most recent article, avoiding conflict to keep the peace may not work, and can hurt both you and the kids. But remember, the sociopath’s objective is to get a reaction out of you. So be calm, unemotional and businesslike as you enforce your boundaries. Even when the sociopath upsets you, never let him or her see it.
Your physical and emotional strength
If you were involved with a sociopath, you certainly were deceived, manipulated and betrayed. You may have been physically assaulted. You may have endured emotional and psychological injury.
So as you’re considering fight or flight, what can you really handle right now?
Your first priority must be your own health and safety. If you need to give up the money or property you lost in order to protect your very life, then do it.
Or maybe you need to retreat for the time being. Then, after taking time to recover and gather your strength, you can go after the sociopath later. That is perfectly acceptable.
Recovery and accountability
True recovery from a sociopath means moving forward with your life. It may not be the same life that you had before the sociopath. In fact, if you work on deep emotional healing because of this experience, it could even be a better life.
So what is the best way for you to move forward? Is it letting go of what happened? Or is it standing up for yourself and holding the sociopath accountable? Is it letting go on some issues and taking a stand on others? Only you can decide.
Here’s another factor: Sociopaths will continue with their exploitative behavior as long as they keep getting away with it. If nothing else, I hope we can at least talk about our experiences. As more people realize that millions of predators live among us, perhaps working to hold sociopaths accountable won’t feel as lonely as it does now.
My experience with fighting
Personally, I am glad that I fought, although I did not claim a total victory. When I divorced my ex-husband, the judge awarded me all the money I claimed $227,000 plus $1 million in punitive damages. I spent a year and even more money trying to serve my judgment. I failed, and eventually had to declare bankruptcy.
But I did prove in court that he committed fraud. That legal judgment enabled me to expose James Montgomery for the con artist that he is. And, it enabled me to create Lovefraud, where I use my experience to try to educate the world about the social predators who live among us.
For me, the fight was worth it.
Thank you, I know this will be the fight of my life . Courts here are very busy so it’s taking a long time. I have to fight though. Like my attorney said “a business deal with a very bad partner”. It’s all about money. Already his attorney and him claim that he is very “poor”. How could we ask for alimony? He claims everything is his. It will be an ugly battle. It was a long term marriage and I stayed mostly home to be a housewife and mother while he furthered his education and is now making a 6 number salary. Even though this is a no fault state judges are still human and do not like . It might sound terrible but I hope at the end he will be left with nothing but his co worker deputy. After all he told me that she is so much sexier, younger and so much more fun than me. And she has very long hair. All this mattered to him more than his precious family. She can have him. To my son and I he is a worthless piece of trash.
I know Donna knows as well as I, you must pick your battles when it comes to a sociopath because they are constant! Once you have picked the most important to fight for….fight like hell! I have to say though from 10 years of experience in dealing with my husband’s ex sociopath….you must give yourself a break and breather once in a while when there is a small break in the drama otherwise you will lose yourself in all of the hype! Your well being and self has to come first, because if your lose yourself and your strength, and your health, your children don’t have you, you don’t have you…and no one does but the sociopath! God Bless
I just had an arbitration hearing with my ex sociopath this morning to try to collect my property and two loans I had made to him. I decided early on that the best strategy was to stick with the matter at hand, namely my property. This ended up being the best approach for all intents an purposes, though you can never really win with a sociopath. I was, of course, accused of stalking him, of being “crazy” and he sat and lied under oath claiming he had never even seen my property. In the end, the arbitration board ruled that he would need to return the 5 items (out of 20) he admitted having and pay back the loans.
Yes, this was a victory on several levels. First, I did everything I could do to stand up for myself. I did them in a safe and legal manner. I maintained my integrity and was able to hold my head high.
That said, none of his lies were directly challenged and I did have to go through the bullying and abuse that came with filing the claim. It really is a matter of weighing out whether it’s worth it.
For me it had to be for two reasons. First two of the items he has/had in his possession were a pair of earrings I had made out of my Mother’s wedding band and two sets of antique dishes that she had left to me when she died. I knew I would never see them again, but I also knew that if I didn’t at least try to fight for them I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. The second reason is that this is the second time I’ve been left in debt and emotionally damaged by a sociopath and I needed to learn that I could stand up for myself.
So in the end I don’t regret the decision to fight for what is rightfully mine even though I didn’t get most of it back.
My ex stole a gold coin passed down in his family from eldest son to eldest son–from his own son! My ex was the second boy in his family. His older brother had no children, so he passed the coin–a prize from Notre Dame for a Great Great Grandfather who graduated Summa Cum Laude–to my older son. At the time my ex said–I thought jokingly!–that he should get it. Well, he stole it!
I am letting that go, though I did try to get it for my son. Of course Spath denies it. But–other than me–he was the only one who knew where it was!
Where I draw the line is when he becomes a risk for the community. I discovered he is a serial embezzler, so I did report him for that, despite some consequences to myself. I continue to put the word out. I feel by not exposing him, I am protecting him and allowing him to continue his predatory behavior.
I also draw the line at my children–I will do anything to prevent him having contact with them. He is also a porn addict–that’s a deal-breaker for me. I did not have children in order to expose them to such a soul-destroying industry. So I will fight to the death to keep him from them. If I had known who he was, of course he would not have been the father of my children. They are not going to pay for his evil, or my ignorance.
I do choose my fights carefully, and I will not emerge unscathed, but I will fight to the end for those things that are important to me.
LL,
I arger with you. I will also fight for the things that are important to me. Like alimony, this will affect the rest of my life. Also, I don’t want my son exposed to his porn addiction. To this day I cannot believe that he did not care about his 16/17 year old son discovering his nude picture exchange with the female deputy co worker. How could he do that to his only child? And today he cannot comprehend why his son refuses to talk to him. Doesn’t he know that a father is a role model, someone a child respects. How can my son ever respect his father who behaved so stupid, immature and irresponsible ? This is what my soon to be ex should ask himself every day when he claims he “misses and loves” his son more than anything in this world. Just another worthless statement coming out of his mouth.
The trail of destruction that these spaths do cause us is distressing and horrible. Every one of our stories is such a recounting of the most inane behavior that had we not seen it and so often have the blow by blow proof of it, that it seems  unbelievable! Â
The asinine lifestyle choices that these goofs display are testimony to their convoluted thought processes. The one who targeted me is so full-on psychopathic that his charming act is seamless! Â His self-aggrandizing plus pity play are so much a part of his persona that it’s hard to believe he’s the chameleon he is, who turns on a dime, and once he’s been exposed or confronted, flares up into the most unholy beast !!
The question of fight or flight is a worthy one, Donna! Â As solid and practical thinkers, we measure our actions in this world and live according to principles that serve us in times where we must select the proper path in order to maintain our integrity and honor.Â
Our gut reaction to the surprises of the social predator is so incredulous when we first discover them to be what they are that they have us totally off guard! Â How quickly that changes while we become increasingly vigilant to observe the veneer of their bogus routines as the pretentious skin which covers their unchecked evil!Â
I was so dumbfounded when I pulled back the phoniness and went behind the lies of the one who targeted me that I became insatiable in my quest to discover “what else?” until I finally had had enough! Â I was disgusted!! Grossed out! Â
One horrible thing after another! Â I had been taking contemporaneous notes because like others who go through the ordeal of these kooks’ routines, I began to question my own sanity. Â But finally all my questioning and confusion faded and the glaring truth was revealed as I compared my notes with the time and date stamped evidence of what he had really been doing behind my back!
What I discovered was such a collection of heinous behavior that he had been hiding and denying–glibly claiming his innocence the entire time!–so over the top in it’s craziness, and had been going on for days, weeks, months, years!! The more I found, the more there was to find! Â It was like being a miner and hitting the mother lode, day after research-filled day!Â
He had had the habit of “disappearing” for days on end, without contact or word about his whereabouts, which had concerned me at first. But after I got my true raw data breakthrough, I actually preferred that he stay away because my research got deeper and deeper into his secret life…and it was like a horror movie–times a hundred!!
Like looking at a horrible train wreck, I was viscerally ill and yet fascinated! Â
I couldn’t put every strange occurrence to the data I found but after a few months of jaw-dropping discoveries, day after day, the picture became very clear that the person who presented to me was a complete sham. Like looking at a scary clown, I wanted to laugh…and run in the other direction as fast and far as I could! Â
And like you all who’ve experienced these kooks first hand, he stole money and whatever he could from me, he physically attacked me and my son, he lied, cheated, and acted like a complete jerk and after exposing him, abused and discarded me like last weeks garbage. Thank goodness! Â Good riddance to bad cretin!!
I tried to fight to get the money back that  I had loaned to him but it wasn’t too many thousands and after a point I thought it might be worth every penny just to make him go away. It didn’t. He kept attacking me. It cost me more money to get legal counsel to face him off in court, but also worth every penny as my attorney is a closet comedian who slam dunked him for the court record!  Thank you, to my attorney!
Wow! Â Is it funny, sad, scary, horrible, disgusting, and fascinating in a morbid way? Â Yes. It is.Â
Fight or flight? Â In my experience with this one who pegs 38 out of 38 on the PCL-R, (the “conditional release revocation” question, n/a), I, like you, have to do both! Â Fight and Flee! Â
Self protection is the operative concern here. Protecting ourselves and our children.Â
God bless, everyone. We’ve made it through another beautiful year–kookfree! Â Yay!Â
For those still struggling the vagaries of these kooks, Â take heart! Â Get away and regain your ground. Life is good! Â Be well!
Thank you hinahina for this valuable statement. I also questioned my own sanity through out the years until I discovered lie after lie, cheating, betrayal and so on. All the while he told me it was my imagination, I was mentally insane and needed to go on medication. I am grateful for my physician who told me that I do not need any medications. He knew how evil this husband of mine really was. Like you I am grateful for my attorney who is not afraid to represent me even though my husband is deputy. I put all my hope and trust in this attorney and I feel really good about retaining him. I know I will be ok. My husband can live in his world of porn, sex and lies. I guess that is all his money can buy him now. He sure cannot get his family back. A family that was always there for him for over 20 years, throughout military deployments and hardships. Yes, did I feel like being disposed of like garbage? Absolutely, but at the end it was what saved my life.
Flight. Depending upon the length and investment depth of the relationship, cutting all ties to an exposed sociopath is not always possible so I’m grateful that such an exit presented itself. When her carefully constructed, lovebomb-glued web of lies began to melt against the mounting truth of Captain Obvious behavior changes and what I now know is the typical steep decline in intimacy ”“ weeks of distance replacing what had started out as barely days in between – I ran. On the horrible final night when the actual evidence of her cheating surfaced, I ran. Besides sharing the details here to help others validate their experiences (thanks Donna in re: my comment on the 10/12 “My involvement with a female sociopath” post) and not sink into the deep waters of discard, I’ve not looked back. Zero contact, one day at a time.
The burning embarrassment of having introduced my family and friends to someone who turned out to be a lovefraud actually became a saving grace, as those same people acted as ‘first responders’ at my side – – they poured their true love out as I writhed from the silent treatment discard delivered just after we had all spent several days together at a special event. They affirmed this truth: “Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8). That kind of love is foreign to a sociopath.
Emotion, experiences, presence and time – – all invested in and wasted upon a ghost that masqueraded as a beautiful well-adjusted woman – – all erased by her pre-meditated behavior pattern to which I was blind and inexperienced. Yes, I’d very much like a full refund for all of my wasted re$ources. But, knowing that’s impossible: I constructed closure with a high road goodbye message that she did not deserve, tossed every / any physical thing tied to her and then began rebooting and upgrading myself. I even re-possessed favorite places I shared with her by returning to them solo or with family and friends, overwriting false memories with true ones. Out of the discard, I gained an education in lovefraud, a stronger faith and deeper true love connections to and with family and friends.
“And now I know that it’s time for letting go, we can’t hide what we both know, the hurt grows every time I think it’s over
It’s time to realize that we’re both just living lies, and way down deep inside something’s telling me it’s time for letting go, let it go
I keep telling myself over and over, let it go
But my love’s still strong!”
That last lyric from a long-beloved Jude Cole song is the best truth extracted from this bump in the road: my capacity to love is undaunted if not intensified ”“ like that VROOOOM revved up feeling after beating an illness! ”“ and waits patiently to be shared with someone who also understands love is a verb. As Quinn eloquently wrote in the 10/23 “Recovery From a Sociopath” post above, “If I were to never to love or trust anyone again because of my experience with a sociopath, that would be my most regrettable choice.” And worse yet, the sociopaths would win. To that I’m sure we all say in unison no way – we must make sure that true love wins.
PS – While the valuable resources here (9/26 “Was I Ever Loved,” 9/16 “Trust After The Sociopath” and especially 9/2 “Sociopaths and Love” posts) and at datingasociopath.com (5/23 “Why the breakup with the sociopath can be psychologically damaging” post) help to unpack this chapter and aid my moving forward under better guard, I wonder: since M.S. (my spath) often referenced her failed marriage to a narcissist – the ultimate mirror, perhaps she developed her own mirroring behavior to win some twisted form of love from him, yet remains stuck in that mode of mirroring to gain some kind of revenge on her ex through mistreating other men? That’s a wild problem, one that now belongs to her next target ”“ good luck with that, sir.
I saw a post of facebook that said something about conflict not being worth the loss of peace.I’ve got to agree.I don’t look down on anyone who makes the choice to fight in court.It’s just that I’ve lost enough,and as many of you can attest,the losses only seem to pile up as the drama goes on.My health and sanity are my top considerations.Life goes on.
So true, Blossom. So much time and energy is wasted by these sociopaths and psychopaths. They take such a huge toll on resources. They rob so many people of their time, money, sense of self, safety, community integrity and basically, every level that is measurable in economic terms.
As a naturally curious person who is uncomfortable wallowing in misery, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to calculate the dollar amount that is evaporated by these social predators. It’s really far more than the actual dollars they stole from you and me. It is also court costs, the costs of fixing our cars that they’ve sabotaged, the cost of our and our children’s climb out of the horrible pit of destruction that the predators foist upon us, and so many other incidental costs of their insidious perversions often without our even really getting a grip on the actual losses we could add up over the course of a year.
Based on my own losses plus those that the one who targeted me also created for others, that I estimate at no less than 5 other people besides myself per year and multiplied by the estimated head count of the socially predatory types across the United States, and taking into account the averaging of some being far more insidious and costly than others, I calculated a $7 Trillion loss per year in the USA.
This number represents half of the GDP of the USA per year. I surmise from this estimated number that the advancement of mankind due to innovation, conservation of resources, applied technologies and labor saving devices, is negated in a very, very significant way. It is due to the predatory aspects of these social toilets that worthy resources are flushed away in huge amounts, where if the social predation were attenuated, the largesse would effect a huge boon to the economic advancement of mankind.
In other words, without these social predators masquerading as normal and disallowing them free rein to hurt and destroy, we would see many, many more millionaires and people living less stressed and more bountiful and happy lives.
Sociopaths, psychopaths and malignant narcissists destroy real resources. They impoverish innocent people. They hurt people over the course of lifetimes and this is why humanity is not advancing as quickly as one might expect: i.e., the natural result of the general trending of better and better resource allocation.
It’s true that every fight we give them is like their life blood. They see any interaction, no matter how hurtful to themselves or others, as a win for them. But it’s not a win at all, as we know. People get hurt. People cry and lose their life savings, if not their lives, too. Real people lose real assets. The social predators make people lose resources. That’s why I call them “losers”, because that’s all they know: losing. To them, losing is winning!
If that’s not the epitome of dysfunctional, what is?
For me, I had to stand up and fight against the loser-kook because he was breaking into my house, threatening my life and my son’s life, stealing my property and saying stupid but true things like, “I’d marry you for your money…(and then I’d kill you and make it look like an accident and claim everything that’s yours as mine…)”.
Shocking. Horrible. Disturbing? Yes. Every day.
I stood up to him and got a TRO which he violated several times and is now fighting, claiming “not guilty”. But with so much evidence that is irrefutable, he just looks like a fool. But whatever.
I got a quick lesson in phony baloneys. So did my son. Now, I can help my new boyfriend understand that some predatory types are working him over in underhanded ways. Not blatantly illegal but manipulative and insidious…and really, theft and fraud. And conspiracy. Horrible people. And they move through the community thinking there’s nothing wrong with them. If I say something, they think I’m the bad guy…wow… Deja vu all over again!!
But, no. I’m not the bad guy. I’m just the person who reveals them for what they truly are, which is socially pathological. I recognize them early, call them out on their lies and then make moves to get away before they inflict more damage.
Then, because I tend to be a “fixer”, I explain my actions to others, explain my extensive research and my management of these types to those I care about and try to live the best I can: with integrity and honor and uprightness…and, with every fiber of my being, honestly and above reproach.
I got involved with a kook. I endangered my son. Now, I must make amends to my son so that he can live well and with integrity. This is why I fight…and also why I get the hell outta Dodge!
Nice to hear your Ride-O’-Horrors has ended.
Feet and Hands are now Free to move about the Earth at normal speed 🙂
I found this note to myself in a journal I had kept for two of the three years I was with “It”, during one of many break-ups. (Is that too mean to call him ‘It’?)
—
03/11/12 1:03AM:
Self, Please REALIZE!:
“Being with HIM was like getting on the Roller Coaster time and again, each time willingly, WITHOUT the safety harness to hold YOU inside the car”
Hey self! read the above. Do you see the capitals?
HIM WITHOUT YOU!
Will you please finally get a CLUE about what he probably is!
—
Three days ago was the day I decided to stop the ride I was on with Spath for the last time. I had broken up with/got back together with/broken up with about half a dozen or more times out of pure frustration and/or heartache since the fourth month of being with him.
I’ve suspected that he might be sociopathic after finding LoveFraud one and half years into the relationship, but not being a professional behavioral healthcare specialist, I knew that I would have to basically ‘watch and decide’ for myself if he was a disordered human even though it felt as though all the descriptions of what a Spath really is all about, and the true stories of victims, had somehow been written by professionals who followed him and me around taking copious notes and ultimately gathering enough ‘evidence’? to write a Medical Doctrine on. At first I was in some kind of denial though as if it couldn’t be true that he was really that Empty and Manipulating as those people are described to be. I spent a year and a half hoping to prove the medical world wrong. He couldn’t be one of those.
There is no other logical conclusion I can come to. I have to save myself. He can not help what he is and neither can I.
My mind is spinning right now, but I am going to be okay.
Take care,
Jenni Marie
Jenni Marie – I’m glad you got rid of him. Remember, it doesn’t matter what professional diagnosis he might get – if the guy has you on a roller coaster, get off.
hinahina,
Yes,they’re like a nightmare that you wish you could just wipe away and say “Be gone!” and they would obey!But that would be too good to be true…right now anyway!
Truly I can understand why you and many others go to court and fight the predators–often dealing with predators within the justice system.
I’m just fortunate enough not to have any children living at home.I live in a secured apt building,with enforced security rules.I never go anywhere alone.I do have support.
With No Contact,life has been peaceful for a year.One of my daughters is 6 monthes pregnant and out of respect for her condition and for the fragility of the other two,I’ve decided to just let things go for now.But I know that doesn’t mean that problems won’t present themselves later.
Hoping that things work out for you and your son!