By Ox Drover
I flashed on something a while back. I know a man who went into the navy at age 16. When he was 18, he was on shore leave and met a young girl, rapidly fell in love with her, married her, set her up in an apartment and went back to sea for nine months. When he got back to shore, she was gone. He couldn’t understand why.
Later, when he was 22, he met another girl when he was on shore leave and married her as well. Lived with her a couple of weeks, during which time she got pregnant, and then left her and went back to sea for a year. When he came home, his wife and baby daughter were gone.
At this time, he started thinking about “what had gone wrong” with his two marriages and decided that the “problem” was “American women can’t be trusted.” He had no inkling of the real cause of the problem, which I had no problem seeing. First, both he and these girls were very young; he had only spent a few weeks with them (less than 30 days) before he married them and then left for months and months. During the time he was gone, the very weak bond between them failed and the girls moved on. The fact that they were American girls had nothing to do with the failure of his two marriages.
Foreign woman
Going on his false premise of what caused the failures of his marriages, he decided to marry a foreign woman. While he was on shore leave in the Philippines, he met a bar girl there who had two illegitimate daughters. After he left the Philippines, he wrote to this woman for two years, then returned and while on shore for a week, married her. She was, at the time he married her, working, and living with 26 other family members, including her two young daughters, in a two room shack, without indoor plumbing. The total cooking facilities for this family (or should I say “tribe”?) was a Coleman camp cooking stove bought for her sister by another serviceman.
After the wedding, he brought his wife and her daughters back to the US to live. He educated the two daughters and then the couple had one more daughter. By the time the second daughter was 12 years old and he had retired from the service on a half-pay pension, and was going to college himself, the daughter became “conduct disordered” and “ran wild.” His wife decided it would be better if she and the daughter stayed in the house they owned and that he should move out. She told him that when the daughter moved out at age 18, that she and he would move off and “live happily ever after.” As the girl’s 18th birthday approached, she gave birth to an illegitimate son. The man went for a visit to his family for his and his wife’s 20th wedding anniversary, taking a very expensive pair of diamond earrings to his wife, and so looking forward to the day, coming soon, he believed, that they would leave the daughter and live “happily ever after.”
Taken for a ride
Of course, that didn’t happen, and they were divorced. They hadn’t lived together the last six years of the “marriage,” but he had sent money to his wife and daughter during that period.
What is wrong with the above situation? The man was totally wrong about what the problem was with all three of his marriages. He was operating on bad information, so he could not fix the problem.
He was taken for a “ride” by his Philippine wife for over 20 years. She had been looking for a “meal ticket” and a “green card” eventually leading to US citizenship out of a horrible crushing poverty in the Philippines. I can’t say as I “blame” her for looking to take any way out of her situation. However, he had not the slightest clue what was going on, so he could not fix the problems with his choices and decisions.
Correct diagnosis
I realized, in going over this man’s stories, that I too had had difficulties in making good decisions and solving my own problems because I had not clearly defined what the problem was.
When I was in nursing school, we were taught to define the problems in order to make a correct diagnosis and find a solution. Without clearly defining what the problem was, there could be no correct solution.
In my own difficulties in dealing with psychopaths, and people with agendas that were clearly different from mine, I didn’t correctly define the real problem.
I would hit a snag and be abused and used, just as my navy friend had been used and abused, and I would (as he did) grieve over the losses that resulted from the situation. I would try to find what happened, as he did. However, like the man, I came up with the wrong solution because I didn’t correctly define what the real problem was.
With each of the psychopaths that I encountered, starting with my biological father, I defined the “problem” as me not being able to adequately communicate my love for them. If only I had loved them more, tried harder, somehow I would have gotten through to them how they should have treated me. I thought that somehow I must have precipitated this unholy abuse and pain. Obviously, I allowed it to continue for a long time until the pain became so bad I fled in terror from this monstrous man, but still I didn’t see that the real problem was that he was unable to love, and that my own lack of self esteem and boundary setting was what allowed this abuse to go on.
More psychopaths
After years of floundering around, going through the grief process, my pain totally invalidated by anyone, even my mother, I worked through the process to where I could function again in life. At least I thought I was functioning adequately.
Encountering more psychopaths however, in many roles, some in my family, some as bosses, some as subordinates, one as my son, and eventually one as a “significant other,” I still didn’t “get it” that there was a problem with me! That the problem with me was that I didn’t recognize that they were unreachable, unchangeable, unfixable, that no matter how much I loved them, how much I gave to them, how much I forgave them, how much I “pretended that they had not deliberately hurt me,” I was a sitting duck waiting for the next psychopath or disordered person to get the “benefit of the doubt” from me, to get the “second chance” to screw me over, to use me, to abuse me, to lie to me.
Seeing the light
Finally in 2007, I fled for my life, leaving my home and everything I held dear behind except for my personal papers, one son, and my dogs. I finally “saw the light.” I finally made a correct diagnosis of the problem. I finally saw that I could not change them, that no matter what I did to try to placate them, they were toxic. I could only change my own reaction to them.
I grieved the “loss” of the illusion that my psychopathic son would ever “reform.” No matter how he promised, he was, in truth, a monster who wanted me dead. The loss of the illusion that my mother was my loving mother, instead of a toxic enabler, almost a psychopath-by-proxy because she would do anything to protect my son from the consequences of his actions, was another huge loss that I grieved intensely. I also started to realize that I had great difficulty in setting boundaries for the way that people treated me, and that there were others in my life who used me as “foot wipes.” When these people would lie to me, steal from me, and otherwise mistreat me, I was afraid to “upset” them and confront them, or to “make a scene.”
I started looking back at my life, and at the beliefs that I held to be true, the beliefs that influenced the way I allowed others to treat me. I then realized that like my friend the navy man, I had diagnosed the problems with these people incorrectly. These people in my family and my life did not respect me, but wanted to control me for their own benefit and I had allowed this to happen, over and over and over. When I had gotten to the point each time that the pain was unbearable, I had given in to their desires for control. I had paid dearly for “peace at any price.” They had done the bad deeds, and I had paid the price for their peace, but there was no peace for me, only pain.
My reactions
Having again gone through the grief processes over the losses I suffered—the fantasy that my psychopathic son would change, the fantasy that my mother was not a toxic enabler, and all the other losses—I now see that the problem was not just with the psychopaths, but also in my reactions to them.
I realize now that I cannot deal with them safely, in any way, shape or manner. The only choices I have are to have no contact with the toxic people in my life, no contact with anyone who is not honest, caring and kind. As I continued to stay on the “road to healing” I realized that in the past, when I had gotten over the initial grief of the losses suffered from dealing with psychopaths, I was still vulnerable to the next psychopath because I had not learned to set boundaries without feeling great guilt over “upsetting” someone who had abused me. I realized that no matter what the relationship with a psychopath is, no matter how close the blood ties, or any other ties, that these people will always behave as psychopaths behave, and that is abusively.
Now that I have made changes in myself, made changes in the way I react to abusive behavior, now that I have refused to blame myself for their abuse, and refuse to let abusive behavior continue, I am on a much more solid footing on the road to healing. I also realize that I must stay on this road, that I must guard myself with caution in dispensing trust to anyone in my life, and set solid boundaries for myself. I don’t feel that I can ever declare myself “totally healed” again, as I have in the past, only to try to “fix” the next psychopath that comes into my life. I will always to some extent be vulnerable to the psychopaths, more vulnerable to some than others, but I now watch for the “red flags” that indicate pathological disorder in people I deal with. I no longer trust blindly.
Henry:
You are special. And I mean that in a sincere way. Not the creepy sociopathic way. 🙂
OxDrover,
You are right!
Before we can ask the questions we need to know what the problems and/or the question is…
Let’s think of it this way?
If your child is sick and tells you she/he has a upset tummy what do you do?
You will ask the child, “were does it hurt?”
Your child will then tell you or point to it and then you might think/ask “I think you ate too many cookies”…
In short, we need to know what we are dealing with before we know how to deal with it.
OxDrover, I know this is a simple way of looking at it but sometimes it can helps to see things simply and then know how a problem can be simply what it is.
example:
A lie is a lie
abuse is abusive
manipulation is control
falsehood is denial
I believe other members call it an clarification and/or some type of enlightenment. In short a moment when understanding is accepted and then understood.
Thank you for writing this because it’s true that before we can diagnose any disease we need to understand the symptoms and then what those ailments are telling us.
Rosa, Libelle, Henry: I’m so glad you guys grabbed this thought and ran around the yard with it. It looked like a happy game of frisbee, and I hope everyone had fun! You are all so special, I was hoping you’d have an experience of enjoying it when NO ONE was out to get you!
So Rosa asked me my opinion, and here goes:
Rosa said, “the predator uses our “special” qualities as an ANGLE to gain control. In the end, we are left feeling anything BUT special, because then he will move on to the next victim and make them feel “special”, and the next, etc. etc. etc.”
Yes, I agree, but a different predator might use our desire to be a bit “naughty,” or a secret from our past, or our love of fresh-cut flowers, or expensive jewelry, or going to the opera with us, a hold they have over our children (as father/husband/mother/wife or someone who has conned the children who now “adore” him/her) or our desire to be appreciated. My point is that a predator will use ANY bait — some fishermen use worms, some use delicate hand-tied flies, and some use an old crank telephone hooked up to a car battery to stun everything in the pond. A predator can use anything. And we may not even know what the predator is after — our food, our social status, our bank account, perverting our children, or just destroying our lives (because we used to be “successful”).
Rosa said, “The only way we can feel special is when we are truly loved.” Uh-oh. Big red flag. Big, big chink in the armor. I’ll feel special when I KNOW I’m special, no matter what anyone else thinks, right? Because otherwise, I’ll be waiting for “someone who truly loves me,” and you can bet there’s an S/P just outside the door, or across the “crowded room” who can smell out that desire and is ready to fulfill it! Yikes! Been there, done and well-done and over-done!
Rosa said, “A sociopath does not have the capacity to love.” Now, how would you know that from his or her actions? The guy who really loves me might look a lot like an S/P who is fully in his/her game, and making all the right moves. We don’t know, until we know . . .
And Rosa said, (and I’m not trying to pick on you, but you said good things . . .), “So, I don’t care how special any of us thinks we are, or actually may be. The point is you should never think you are “special” when dealing with a sociopath.”
Yes, but, you don’t know you’re dealing with a sociopath yet, right? So if someone pays you a compliment and they are complimenting you for something that is true, then you can say “thank you” and feel good. But you don’t want to lock onto that compliment and let it rule your actions, right? Because it could be a genuine compliment from someone generous (like you) who wanted you to feel appreciated — which you deserve. OR, it might be someone who has a different agenda and is trying to get you to trust them and drop your guard. Martha Stout, Ph.D., author of “The Sociopath Next Door,” said — beware of flattery.” That was one of her major “red flags” about recognizing sociopaths — but not all people who give compliments are sociopaths — puleeeeezze!!
And Rosa, you made an awesome point that I think many of us should print out and paste to the bathroom mirror so we remember if we are EVER tempted to go back to an S/P, . . .
“If you think you are special to the sociopath, and he is going to make an exception for you in his sick games, you may as well stick the knife into your own heart and twist it yourself.”
Right on, sister! — as we might have said in another era.
Yep, this stuff sure is sneaky. And I hope you’ve figured out that when I dish a compliment, I really, really hope that it gives encouragement, a light on a dark day, a glimmer of hope that we can recover and not repeat the same mistakes.
Hugs to you. You are wrestling with this stuff on so many levels, and guarding your brother and niece as well. I really respect your commitment and heart, your developing understanding, and your generosity to others.
Henry: You said, “Isnt it nice when [X] thinks we are special, . . . ? Isn’t it nice to think we have found our life long soulmate . . . ? Isn’t it nice to sleep with the man [woman] of our dreams, . . . ? . . . Isn’t it something we all yearn for, maybe too much? Isn’t it nice that that we have escaped with our lives intact? That we have been given the chance to question our desires? That we have found this place and all the people here to help rebuild our troubled souls? Isn’t it nice?”
And I think you said it very well. I edited your words just a little, because I think we should all be able to hold those thoughts in our hearts, so that if a marvelous, loving, compassionate, responsible “soulmate” shows up, we don’t throw them out the door before we give them a chance to show they’re NOT sociopathic!
And if we’ve learned from here, we’re more likely to have the patience to let love grow.
Rosa – I should not have directed my ramblings at you. I like the way you express yourself . In my humble opinion – my need to be special to someone, not just anyone, but one special person has been a detrement to me – I see where I am flawed and my need of being special is a disorder, maybe codependent or even worse a nonborderline. I struggle with myself constantly to reassure myself that I am not bad or toxic or even worse a sociopath. In a earlier post I described how so many people in my life that say they love me and think I am special are in my life as long as I have treats and favors to give them – and here lately I have run out of treats and favors and suddenly I am not so special – life shouldnt be this hard – sometimes the voices just never stop – and more than anything I want to be special and confident in myself, to myself. I have been here well over a year (LF) and I want so much to change my life and leave the past behind, but the past is 54 years of my life lived for others – thats what I thought we were supposed to do. Ok I am going to say it ‘learned’ helplessness? or was it ‘taught ‘helplesness ? Only I can make this change or stay in this void, it’s up too me to live for me–or not.
I wish I’d known all this stuff 30 years ago.
Not-so-shabby: Me, too! No lie! How come we didn’t get this instead of the driver’s ed movies??!!!
Rune:
I think we agree?!?
What they (psychopaths) take from you can be minimal or it can be devestating.
I ran around with a girlfriend when I was young, and she slept with MANY guys. People would tell me that she had multiple abortions when I first met her. She denied it, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt because she was my “friend”. I learned that I could not go shopping with her because she would steal when we shopped and no way did I want a rap sheet. And then she manipulated a guy into marraige and cheated on him within a week of returning from their honeymoon. That ended in divorce, of course. So, when she discarded me after 5 years of what amounted to just good times running around together, I was disappointed, but not surprised. Because by that time, I had seen her do it to so many people, including a husband who she sought out, manipulated into marraige, and then devalued and discarded. However, at the time, I did not know there was a name for this type of behavior. I think she latched onto me for the same reason she latched onto the husband: social status/connections. (Damage assessment: Minimal)
Then, of course, there was my sociopath boyfriend. That lasted longer and was more devestating. The lies were more complex, and I got my first dose of the Smear Campaign. My heart got broken in that mess, but that was my biggest learning experience. I still did not know about personality disorders at that time. (Damage assessment: High)
Then came the sister-in-law who is still in action. And that saga is still unfolding. Rune is right. Even when you know what you are dealing with, it’s not always clear what angle they are playing when it is going down. All you know is that you are being played, but it is easier to figure out when you know you are dealing with a P. They are very sneaky, though. The sister-in-law is vicious, because the stakes are high. The lies are so complex and woven together so seamlessly that my poor brother probably does not know what is real and what is not. None of it is real. It is all lies. And the victim is always the last to figure that out.
(Damage Assessment: Off the charts because there is a marraige and a child involved, and this one is capable of killing IMO)
Very scary stuff. That’s why it is important to be cautious when you first meet someone, like I said in my original post. I am still standing by my original post. Right??? 🙂 I feel like we went waaaay deeper than my original post. I don’t usually get this deep.
Rosa: We’re deep-water certified now. Great job! Was all that early experience so you could be ready to stand by your brother and niece now? (Forgive me — I’m always looking for a “reason” why we go through this in our lives, trying to make meaning and lemonade out of the lemons that “accidentally” got thrown into my grocery sack!
First of all, once you know that the personality-disordered exist, you can do a much better job of spotting them.
One thing I worry about is that we might lull ourselves into complacency by thinking that there’s a finite list of “red flags” that we can use, because the “disordered personality” will ALWAYS have some new twist.
Even setting boundaries isn’t enough, when we’re up against someone who is playing a different game. For example, “setting boundaries” against your SIL’s abuse of you in the way she drops off your niece to “abuse you” by demanding that you babysit would be counterproductive. I’ve encouraged you to let her THINK she’s abusing you by “setting boundaries” in a false way so that she’ll feel she’s winning by “abusing you” by dropping off your niece.
So, are we dizzy yet? If you feel like you’re running out of oxygen at this level, I brought an extra tank. And I’ll do all I can to make sure we both get safely back to the surface.
Bless you for all this deep, deep work you are doing. May the angels watch over us, and those we love who trust us to do our best.
Henry:
You can ramble at me whenever you want.