By Ox Drover
I flashed on something a while back. I know a man who went into the navy at age 16. When he was 18, he was on shore leave and met a young girl, rapidly fell in love with her, married her, set her up in an apartment and went back to sea for nine months. When he got back to shore, she was gone. He couldn’t understand why.
Later, when he was 22, he met another girl when he was on shore leave and married her as well. Lived with her a couple of weeks, during which time she got pregnant, and then left her and went back to sea for a year. When he came home, his wife and baby daughter were gone.
At this time, he started thinking about “what had gone wrong” with his two marriages and decided that the “problem” was “American women can’t be trusted.” He had no inkling of the real cause of the problem, which I had no problem seeing. First, both he and these girls were very young; he had only spent a few weeks with them (less than 30 days) before he married them and then left for months and months. During the time he was gone, the very weak bond between them failed and the girls moved on. The fact that they were American girls had nothing to do with the failure of his two marriages.
Foreign woman
Going on his false premise of what caused the failures of his marriages, he decided to marry a foreign woman. While he was on shore leave in the Philippines, he met a bar girl there who had two illegitimate daughters. After he left the Philippines, he wrote to this woman for two years, then returned and while on shore for a week, married her. She was, at the time he married her, working, and living with 26 other family members, including her two young daughters, in a two room shack, without indoor plumbing. The total cooking facilities for this family (or should I say “tribe”?) was a Coleman camp cooking stove bought for her sister by another serviceman.
After the wedding, he brought his wife and her daughters back to the US to live. He educated the two daughters and then the couple had one more daughter. By the time the second daughter was 12 years old and he had retired from the service on a half-pay pension, and was going to college himself, the daughter became “conduct disordered” and “ran wild.” His wife decided it would be better if she and the daughter stayed in the house they owned and that he should move out. She told him that when the daughter moved out at age 18, that she and he would move off and “live happily ever after.” As the girl’s 18th birthday approached, she gave birth to an illegitimate son. The man went for a visit to his family for his and his wife’s 20th wedding anniversary, taking a very expensive pair of diamond earrings to his wife, and so looking forward to the day, coming soon, he believed, that they would leave the daughter and live “happily ever after.”
Taken for a ride
Of course, that didn’t happen, and they were divorced. They hadn’t lived together the last six years of the “marriage,” but he had sent money to his wife and daughter during that period.
What is wrong with the above situation? The man was totally wrong about what the problem was with all three of his marriages. He was operating on bad information, so he could not fix the problem.
He was taken for a “ride” by his Philippine wife for over 20 years. She had been looking for a “meal ticket” and a “green card” eventually leading to US citizenship out of a horrible crushing poverty in the Philippines. I can’t say as I “blame” her for looking to take any way out of her situation. However, he had not the slightest clue what was going on, so he could not fix the problems with his choices and decisions.
Correct diagnosis
I realized, in going over this man’s stories, that I too had had difficulties in making good decisions and solving my own problems because I had not clearly defined what the problem was.
When I was in nursing school, we were taught to define the problems in order to make a correct diagnosis and find a solution. Without clearly defining what the problem was, there could be no correct solution.
In my own difficulties in dealing with psychopaths, and people with agendas that were clearly different from mine, I didn’t correctly define the real problem.
I would hit a snag and be abused and used, just as my navy friend had been used and abused, and I would (as he did) grieve over the losses that resulted from the situation. I would try to find what happened, as he did. However, like the man, I came up with the wrong solution because I didn’t correctly define what the real problem was.
With each of the psychopaths that I encountered, starting with my biological father, I defined the “problem” as me not being able to adequately communicate my love for them. If only I had loved them more, tried harder, somehow I would have gotten through to them how they should have treated me. I thought that somehow I must have precipitated this unholy abuse and pain. Obviously, I allowed it to continue for a long time until the pain became so bad I fled in terror from this monstrous man, but still I didn’t see that the real problem was that he was unable to love, and that my own lack of self esteem and boundary setting was what allowed this abuse to go on.
More psychopaths
After years of floundering around, going through the grief process, my pain totally invalidated by anyone, even my mother, I worked through the process to where I could function again in life. At least I thought I was functioning adequately.
Encountering more psychopaths however, in many roles, some in my family, some as bosses, some as subordinates, one as my son, and eventually one as a “significant other,” I still didn’t “get it” that there was a problem with me! That the problem with me was that I didn’t recognize that they were unreachable, unchangeable, unfixable, that no matter how much I loved them, how much I gave to them, how much I forgave them, how much I “pretended that they had not deliberately hurt me,” I was a sitting duck waiting for the next psychopath or disordered person to get the “benefit of the doubt” from me, to get the “second chance” to screw me over, to use me, to abuse me, to lie to me.
Seeing the light
Finally in 2007, I fled for my life, leaving my home and everything I held dear behind except for my personal papers, one son, and my dogs. I finally “saw the light.” I finally made a correct diagnosis of the problem. I finally saw that I could not change them, that no matter what I did to try to placate them, they were toxic. I could only change my own reaction to them.
I grieved the “loss” of the illusion that my psychopathic son would ever “reform.” No matter how he promised, he was, in truth, a monster who wanted me dead. The loss of the illusion that my mother was my loving mother, instead of a toxic enabler, almost a psychopath-by-proxy because she would do anything to protect my son from the consequences of his actions, was another huge loss that I grieved intensely. I also started to realize that I had great difficulty in setting boundaries for the way that people treated me, and that there were others in my life who used me as “foot wipes.” When these people would lie to me, steal from me, and otherwise mistreat me, I was afraid to “upset” them and confront them, or to “make a scene.”
I started looking back at my life, and at the beliefs that I held to be true, the beliefs that influenced the way I allowed others to treat me. I then realized that like my friend the navy man, I had diagnosed the problems with these people incorrectly. These people in my family and my life did not respect me, but wanted to control me for their own benefit and I had allowed this to happen, over and over and over. When I had gotten to the point each time that the pain was unbearable, I had given in to their desires for control. I had paid dearly for “peace at any price.” They had done the bad deeds, and I had paid the price for their peace, but there was no peace for me, only pain.
My reactions
Having again gone through the grief processes over the losses I suffered—the fantasy that my psychopathic son would change, the fantasy that my mother was not a toxic enabler, and all the other losses—I now see that the problem was not just with the psychopaths, but also in my reactions to them.
I realize now that I cannot deal with them safely, in any way, shape or manner. The only choices I have are to have no contact with the toxic people in my life, no contact with anyone who is not honest, caring and kind. As I continued to stay on the “road to healing” I realized that in the past, when I had gotten over the initial grief of the losses suffered from dealing with psychopaths, I was still vulnerable to the next psychopath because I had not learned to set boundaries without feeling great guilt over “upsetting” someone who had abused me. I realized that no matter what the relationship with a psychopath is, no matter how close the blood ties, or any other ties, that these people will always behave as psychopaths behave, and that is abusively.
Now that I have made changes in myself, made changes in the way I react to abusive behavior, now that I have refused to blame myself for their abuse, and refuse to let abusive behavior continue, I am on a much more solid footing on the road to healing. I also realize that I must stay on this road, that I must guard myself with caution in dispensing trust to anyone in my life, and set solid boundaries for myself. I don’t feel that I can ever declare myself “totally healed” again, as I have in the past, only to try to “fix” the next psychopath that comes into my life. I will always to some extent be vulnerable to the psychopaths, more vulnerable to some than others, but I now watch for the “red flags” that indicate pathological disorder in people I deal with. I no longer trust blindly.
Dear Geminigirl
You’ve GOT IT SISTER!!!! These WINEB are malicious STRANGERS and they WILL “eat you from inside” IF—AND ONLY IF—YOU ALLOW IT!
You DESERVE to have some peace and joy with your David! You do NOT deserve to be tortured for the rest of your life. You did the best you could with raising these “darlings” just as I did with my own P-son.
For what it is worth, there is a great genetic component in this, it is NOT “all in the raising.” Research lately has proven what ever herdsman knows, “like breeds like” and also that “things jump generations” in the genetics as well.
I was unfortunate enough to be born in to a family filled with these monsters on both sides, and yet, not be one myself. I married a man who came from such a family as well,though, he himself was not a psychopath, his genes were there and one of my two sons from puberty “morphed” from being a sweet wonderful child linto a monster in what seemed like over night. You cannot blame yourself for the way your daughters turned out.
I have raised and bred Scottish Highland cattle for several decades, and the breed is mostly very gentle, but every once in a while a CRAZY one will pop up, and believe me, those “crazy” cattle’s offspring are generally “crazy” as well. I started culling out these “crazy” cows and their off spring out of my herd, much to the benefit of the herd and myself.
Now, even the cattle industry is finding that this is “genetic” —just like the Spanish bread a race/breed of “crazy” and dangerous cattle for their National Sport, by breeding crazy to crazy and culling out the docile ones.
Humans, though we have brains bigger and smarter than cattle, are STILL subject to the laws in genetics about basic temperment just as we are about the color of our eyes, if I/we recognize that some one/thing is “crazy” in our herd/family we still need to CULL IT OUT for our own safety. No matter if we gave birth to it, or it gave birth to us, we have to CULL it out.
I realize it hurts to acknowledge that the child you loved, became the adult you don’t know, the adult that will abuse you. I have never experienced deeper or more profound pain than acknowledging that my own son became a monster of no small proportions. But, finally, by doing that, I was able to let him go, and to come to peace within myself.
I wasn’t a perfect parent, no one is, but i was a good parent for the most part, and my other biological son is NOT a monster, but a loving, caring, hard working, bright, kind, compassionate man—totally opposite of his brother.
My best wishes for you and your wonderful David. (((hugs)))) and God bless you both!
Witsend:
Hey Girl……staying strong I hope!!!!!
Hopefully, summer will offer you soltice and rejuvination!!!
XXOO
CORRESTION: I have no idea where the WINEB came from! Gremlins on my posts!
Dear Witsend:
have a great wedding experience as the mother of teh Groom! oxoxox Oxy
I won! Towanda! Full story on philosophy of Sociopath thread in moments.
Oxy,
Yet another great, insighful post, AND I’ve gotten to read about half the comments this afternoon – I will be back to finish this tomorrow, although I won’t be on all day, as I have been most Tuesdays (the highlight of opening my e-mail on tuesday mornings is “what’s new at LoveFraud…”); I’m studying again, prepping for re-starting college, so algebra is my main bane brain drain right now.
*Hugs* and thanks for all the insights and advice.
Dearest Oxdrover,
Many many thanks! I know you are right! Thanksfor giving me that extra bit of courage, I know I can do this! My darling husband deserves a whole ,loving wife. For my own mental and emotional health,I need to let these two b—ches go! It is the hardest thing in the world, as you say, to realise you gave birth to these emotionally cold, calculating, cruel, lying women! Like you I did the best I knew how. My ex, though he is an alcoholic, was nowhere near as bad as my daughters, and it was easy to let him go and forgive him. he has since remarried, and seems happy.I know now that the girls will never change, and I have to move on. I deservea happy life with david. Thanks again! {{{HUGS!!}}} Maia -geminigirl.
Rosa wrote: “Don’t ever think someone wants to get close to you within the first 10 minutes of meeting you because you are that “special”. Nobody is that freaking special!”
Rosa, I think you are wrong. It’s quite possible to be that freaking special.
When I read your post I imagined a following situation. I’m dating many different women who are intelligent, attractive, have great character, in an attempt to find that special someone who in addition has a few rare things about her that are important to me. It is irrelevant here what those things are. Alas, they are rare, so I have to try and try and try without any guarantee that I’ll find one. Occasionally I see an attractive woman who seems to have these things about her. Of course, I don’t know anything else about her. (I suppose that she is intelligent, otherwise she probably wouldn’t have those few special things about her, but as I’ve said it’s irrelevant what those things are). I don’t know anything about her character. But I can try to find it out! It’s much faster than going other way round and chances for success are much higher!
Alas, that woman has bad experience and is too afraid of sociopaths, so she is fearful of my possible hidden agenda. Nobody can be that freaking special, right? So probably I won’t really have a chance to date her. After all I do have some hidden agendas, just as anybody else. So I lose maybe the most real possibility in my life to find that special someone I would love to be in love with.
I think it would be an agonizing experience.
I think you are so afraid of people’s hidden agendas because the only hidden agenda you consciously dealt with was a hidden agenda of your sociopath to enslave, exploit and hurt you. You don’t recognize your own hidden agendas, and believe me, you have them too. You don’t notice that most if not all people are somewhat manipulative, and even people you like probably are slightly (or not so slightly) manipulative. So you take an all-or-nothing approach to this.
Yes, there is some hidden agenda behind my desire to see those particular rare things in my partner. I want to get something out of it. And I don’t want to tell everyone what is that that I want out of it because it’s one of the things people call intimate. So it IS a hidden agenda. And it will be hidden until we are close enough so I may open up. But it does not mean that it is evil or exploitive. If in order to get what I want I had to hurt or harm her I would rather stop. It’s not a pleasant experience to hurt a person you love.
I agree that you have to be careful and to try to understand hidden agendas of people you deal with, let alone of someone who is your prospective life partner. Everyone has to be careful. But it does not mean you have to assume the worst possible case right away until proven otherwise: you just won’t really give him a chance to prove otherwise!
I think that your feeling of vulnerability which causes your overvigilance comes not only from your bad memories, but also from the fact that you are indeed vulnerable. I think you just know it on some level. Probably some your important need is not met. You tried hard, you played all the fools, you fell in love with sociopath, and you’ve paid a high price for that. Yet your need is still unmet, and it makes you vulnerable.
The problem is, if this is the case (and I think it is) you’ll be vulnerable until you’ve figured out what that need is and how to deal with it. Despite all your precautions you may just fall for another predator that by chance or due to his own shrewdness slipped past your outer defenses. And if your unmet need is such that your defensive walls prevent you from satisfying it (it MAY be the case) you will almost inevitably fall for another predator. You’ll unlock all your locks and open wide all your armored gates for him. For no one else but him.
passer-by:
You make my skin crawl.
Putting that aside, I think I speak for everybody on this site when I say that the reason we all see sudden fawning interest from somebody as a warning sign is because it is. We have all been lovebombed by sociopaths. We have all been manipulated by sociopaths. As a matter in fact, we were manipulated just the way you are manipulating your victims.
Quite frankly, all people are presumed assholes until proven otherwise. Translation: trust must be earned. if I saw someone was manipulating me the way you feel free to, I would not only run for the hills, but I would also dump your sorry ass the minute I figured out what you were up to.
I see a post directed to Rosa that appears intended to derail her, create self-doubt, and point out so-called deficiencies (real or fabricated) with the sole purpose of making her obsess over these presumed flaws.
Creepy. This is a personal attack, dressed up to look like something else.
I just can say: thank you Matt and Rune.
It was like breaking NC with “my” X while I was trying to follow the twisted thinking of passer-by.
And ceterum censeo: Potted plant!