The American Psychiatric Association is in the process of updating its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, the DSM-5. This is the “bible” used by psychiatrists and other mental health professionals to diagnosis psychiatric conditions, including antisocial personality disorder. Two members of the committee working on personality disorders have resigned, stating that the proposal displays a “stunning disregard for evidence.”
Dr. Liane Leedom and I had issues with how the first draft described antisocial personality disorder, which was why we conducted a Lovefraud survey back in 2010. Based on the survey results, we submitted Lovefraud’s  comment about sociopaths for the DSM-5. The description was since revised, but apparently there are professionals who are still dissatisfied.
If the professionals can’t agree, no wonder the rest of us are confused.
Two who resigend from DSM-5 explain why, on PyschologyToday.com.
Eralyn
20years,
Yep you know it.
A man who ran for Attorney General heard my case as he was the attorney on staff of a child advocate office where I applied for help. He asked me to go behind closed doors of the legislators to tell my story as we were attempting to stop a law that was going into effect and he shadowed me at the House. I walked out suspicious of what I had seen and unsure if I was correct. (I couldn’t believe it so I threw out a “check”) I asked how he could handle the corruption (I used a different word) and he said he felt compelled to fight the good fight. If he gave up the rest would run amok! It validated what I was seeing.
He then lost the AG election and became a principal a a school. I wanted to call him and say “HEY”. Now he’s filled a position in the senate that came open due to the person in the seat getting removed. I am glad. I hope he keeps going for the good fight.
Now I am trying to figure out my place in all this. I have done over 3 years of extensive research and I wish I could put it to use. I see how you are licking your wounds and putting the pieces back together with yourself and your kids and I have been given that advice. hhmm…..
callmeathena
Oxy
I am sure there is another name for our “WTF” moments when we assumed the shame of our spaths……I have no idea what it is, but wow, it’s a strange thing, when you think about it.
They have none so we assume it for them. Or theirs is buried. Or something.
Thank you for validating my experience, whatever it was.
Today a friend sent me a link on the butterfly story. We talked about it on this blog some time ago. It’s a way more elegant way of talking about our spath experiences and how they strengthen us in the end.
((((((((((OXY))))))))
Athena
Ox Drover
Thank you Athena, I’m so glad that you are moving out of that “shame” that is not yours to bear. It lightens the load! (((hugs)))
MoonDancer
I dont think they have any shame. They justify, rationalize everything they do. They feel anger instead of shame. But they have no problem making us feel shame if we dont meet their expectations. They dont have emotion’s like normal people and shame is an emotion. I did absorb their shame, shame for thing’s they did that was shameful, shame at myself for not standing up to them. As kid’s we are trained or conditioned to believe they are flawless. Shamebonding?
Truthspeak
DanceswithMoon, I’ve never observed “shame” in the sociopaths that I’ve encountered. One female that I encountered would cry and wail when she got caught doing something inappropriate or unacceptable, but she would never speak the words, “I am so sorry for what I did.” She would say, “I’m sorry that happened.” This would be followed with copious shoulder-shaking and lots of noise that sounded as if she was crying. What was oddly lacking was tears.
No, they do not experience shame because shame is associated with remorse which is associated with conscience. They do not have a conscience, so they cannot feel shame.
Brightest blessings
kim frederick
Interesting discussion about shame. In my opinion, shame and guilt are different. Guilt is related to behavior, or an act of percieved wrong-doing, impying a conscious on the part of the guilty person. Shame is related to my self perception, ie, I am flawed, or damaged goods, or inherently inferior.
The word, “shame” means to un-cover. What we reveal or uncover, when we strip the disordered of their masks, is their dis-owned shame.
Their shame is always defended against. They project it. When we feel, “slimed” as Skylar calls it, we have been introjected by the other’s shame. It’s interesting to note that only those with weak ego-boundrys can be “slimed” in this way.
NPD’s create a false self that hides their shame. When their shame is exposed, they lash out in a narcissistic rage.
I read an interesting article, today about “The Lady Macbeth syndrome.” Experimentors studied the effects of thinking about past mis-deeds, and then the impuse to clean.
My X was a clean freak. That, it seemed to me, became myu sould purpose in his life….to clean his house, and I might add I never did it well enough, and I never did it right.
Now, I wonder if this was a symbolic shift of shame onto me….hmmmm.
I was also very aware that I would try to protect him from shame. When he did something stupid, I dropped it, immediatly. I was not one to rub his nose in it. He, on the other hand was an expert at triggering shame in me, and never let anything go…..hmmmmm.
When I became aware of his affairs, and my denial of them, a lot of that changed, I admit.
But, yes. He was a cholostomy bag full of shame.
Now days, I recoil from anyone who is attempting to “slime” me. I immediately go gray rock. That is, when I recognize an attempt to slime. Some manipulators are so skilled at this, that it takes a while to see it for what it is.
Disowned shame.
Louise
They don’t have any feelings, but I do think they feel shame. I think this is the ONLY emotion they feel and probably rage. I think, and it’s only my opinion, that a lot of their actions are driven by shame. Or bypassed shame? as skylar calls it.
skylar
Louise, emotions are physical sensations and they do have them, they’ve just learned how to ignore them, re-interpret them as something else, or blunt them to the point where they can’t feel them at all.
I would say that the extent to which they are successful at not feeling, is the extent of how psychopathic they are.
When they begin to feel shame, they immediately use one of their defense mechanisms to by pass the sensation. They might turn it into rage, or they might quickly reinterpret it into pleasure or they might blame you so that YOU feel it and they feel better.
Oh that reminds me of an interesting story. My spath decided he wanted to make me lose $5000, so he ensnared a woman that he knew into doing an insurance scam with him. He promised her the insurance would buy her a new hybrid car, which she wanted.
First, she had to have an accident, so he rear-ended her car, just a bit, but enough to total it. The car was valued at around $5000, and since he had no insurance, I had to pay because he “had no money” and if I didn’t pay, he would lose his driver’s license which meant he couldn’t work and the summer work season was coming up. The interesting part was when he called me to tell me what happened. He had to say he had rear-ended her car, but since spaths can’t ever accept responsibility for anything, he had to slime me with the blame.
“I hit the car in front of me,” he said, “and it’s your fault because we had a fight this morning and because of that I forgot to drink water and my leg got a cramp in it, so I couldn’t brake fast enough.”
LOL!! He even tried to blame me for something happening, which never even happened. 😆
It worked out very well though, because it was a nice car and I went to the insurance auction and bought it and fixed it. So that my $5000 actually went toward buying a car. It also made the spath very angry when he realized I had gotten the car for myself. He raged, “YOU PLAYED ME!! YOU PLAAAYED MEE!!”
What really made him mad was that the car gets really good mileage which derailed his plans for making me drive my diesel 3/4 ton truck which was very expensive to drive. No matter how much he planned and plotted, he still couldn’t win. what a loser.
Back_from_the_edge
LOL skylar….
a little ‘back-spathing’….
works well when you realize it; hm?
You are right: they use defense mechanisms to avoid
any shame, guilt, etc. They ALWAYS blame EVERY ONE
around them, for EVERY THING, which means THEY never
take any responsibility for themselves, at all.
Like it WAS ALWAYS MY FAULT for everything because
“IT” was OBSESSED and couldn’t control “IT’s” own emotions.
The only ‘fault’ of mine, in all this, was opening the fricking door in the first place!
Paying “IT” attention was my fault.
I am NOT ‘missing’ ANY THING: let the next (rude) ‘minion’
have it and deal with it on a daily basis: I tried to ‘warn’ but
‘minion’ was too jealous to listen: bet ‘minion’ wished she had,
by now; hm?
I loved your story: good for you skylar!!!!
Justification feels sweet; doesn’t it?
Our feeling ‘glee’ in that justification does NOT
make us ‘evil’ like they are – it merely is karma,
Dear, taking it’s natural course. That karma does
display itself, now and then, so it strengthens our
resolve. Those are the priceless gifts of living a
proper life, unlike the ppath society; hm?
These kinds of predators, they always, in the end,
spin themselves into deeper and deeper drama…
They are too self centered to even realize that all
they are accomplishing is building themselves an
empty, cold, unfulfilled life because of their narcissism.
I have been blamed for everything, since before he was born
and I do not jest about this: it has been said before that he was
destined to have me in his life and that he would NEVER give up.
That it was “ME” making his life in such turmoil. Imagine
that: being blamed FOR a psychopathic stalkers agenda!
He said that he would ALWAYS be there. Little did I know that
THOSE STATEMENTS were being made by a psychopath…
a psychopath who would rather see me dead than not in his
world. Now, I don’t know if that makes any sense to any of
you but imagine what that is like: living in the shadows of a
psychopathic stalker for so many years.
If I hadn’t of severed him from me and my life,
I certainly do believe I would be deceased by now.
That is how deep the spin was.
Revel in your justifications, skylar –
the way I see it, we earned it the hard way.
I have MY justification in the fact that “IT” is away from me
and should stay far, far, farrrrrrrrrrrrrr away from
me from now until the end of time with it’s threats
and ugliness.
I have it all figured out now and that makes it
dangerous for me; I know – HOWEVER, I DO
have lots and lots of ‘adamant’. Trust me. xxoo
skylar
Dupey,
This happened more than a year before I realized he was a spath. I really didn’t figure out what had happened until years later. All I knew was that I was going to be out 5grand and I needed to make the best of it. I never tried to play him, but I did know that when I left things up to him, I inevitably got screwed. So this time I went around him.
Really the only reason we kept getting screwed over and over is because we couldn’t believe anyone would purposely do these things and then profess to love us. It made no sense… until you understand spaths.