The American Psychiatric Association is in the process of updating its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, the DSM-5. This is the “bible” used by psychiatrists and other mental health professionals to diagnosis psychiatric conditions, including antisocial personality disorder. Two members of the committee working on personality disorders have resigned, stating that the proposal displays a “stunning disregard for evidence.”
Dr. Liane Leedom and I had issues with how the first draft described antisocial personality disorder, which was why we conducted a Lovefraud survey back in 2010. Based on the survey results, we submitted Lovefraud’s  comment about sociopaths for the DSM-5. The description was since revised, but apparently there are professionals who are still dissatisfied.
If the professionals can’t agree, no wonder the rest of us are confused.
Two who resigend from DSM-5 explain why, on PyschologyToday.com.
lovinglem and Skylar, this is regarding “gray rock” and viewing it as emotional boundaries. I just wanted to say that I think this is the same thing as “don’t throw your pearls before swine.”
Eralyn, once again I am grateful to you for sharing the continuation of your story on the reunification therapy. I honestly had never seen what it *could* look like. And I am also of course very sorry to hear that your other experience with the other RT mirrored mine.
Although instead of an RT we were working with a (can’t remember the name of it now!) type of therapist who didn’t promise confidentiality and could report to the court or something. She charged $250 an hour. I still can’t believe the size of her fee. Where I live, most very excellent psychiatrists and psychologists charge between $150 and $200 an hour. I know she was very motivated by money.
And lovinglem, “lose the window and gain a mirror” — !!!!!! Oh My Goodness. When I read that, I just about lost it. It definitely triggered in me all the memories of these many “professionals” over the years telling me either in so many words, or not in so many words, that I suck as mother, and that I totally misunderstand what a good mother is, and that I need to get a clue.
It makes my blood boil.
Seriously…. it is hard to even find the words to express how that makes me feel.
The CPS investigation on me last year was the icing on the cake. I can say now, looking back at it with one year’s distance, I have now gained a lot from that painful experience.
But oh, how painful!
Basically, I had to endure an attack on my identity as a good, loving, safe mother. And I had to fight to retain that (true) identity. To fight back (mentally especially) against their attempts to brainwash me into despair and giving up. I felt the initial attack (she told me I would never work with children again — I was a kindergarten teacher and I love kids and am a kid magnet! and she told me she could take my kids away from me and put them in a stranger’s home — and she told me I “hate my children” and that “I want to hurt my children” — all lies, but told in a way that just cut right into me — this is what SPATH LIES CAN DO especially if you do not see them coming) as a blunt, psychic blow to my heart region. My heart HURT FOR REAL for 2 weeks afterwards, until I remembered what I knew about psychic attack (I know not everyone’s experience resonates with mine; there are other, more mainstream ways of viewing this type of thing, but this is what is true for me) — and I dispelled it through meditation and prayer. And it was gone.
I can go on and on about this, what it has been like for me and the kids over the years (and I expect it is probably not “over” yet), it is EXHAUSTING.
All these meddling jerks — who the hell do they think they are? Projecting is what they are doing: “lose a window and find a mirror” indeed! That is the very thing THEY are doing.
How cruel. Assholes. (ranting)
Well, I am a LOT tougher than I was a year ago, and I had my eyes forced wide open. I was still too trusting, still didn’t see the spath proliferation in places of power (like the courts and all who work with them: lawyers, therapists, CPS workers). For those of you who don’t know me, I do not see everyone is spaths. I still trust people. But now I verify. I’m getting pretty good at it. 😉
My heart goes out to all of you with children, especially younger children. In my case, it has gotten somewhat easier with my kids as they have gotten older in terms of they are physically larger and see their dad more clearly, and they tell him to his face that they refuse to see him. I don’t have to fight all of the battles FOR them anymore, but I am still a very protective parent. Every family’s situation is different.
Some advice I have received over the years which I think is MIXED in terms of its usefulness is, “the kids need to find their own way to deal with their dad; you should stay out of the middle. They will then carve out their own relationship with him.”
I think that is true to a certain extent, but I also think that if their dad is a spathic monster, and the kids do not yet have spathdar, “gray rock,” boundaries, or having worked through some things, then why should I just throw them to the wolves and cross my fingers and “hope?” I think NOT. I think there is still a place for the protective MOTHER (or FATHER) in these situations. We absolutely MUST continue to be aware of what’s going on, do not just cave in to legal pressure (or if we feel that we must for whatever reason, because being backed into a corner does happen), then we have to find a workaround.
Follow your own instincts, follow your own heart, trust yourself. In order to do this, take care of yourself so you are strong for you and your children. If you do not ever give up, I think that is the key.
It is hard, though.
Who was the original poster of the “grey rock” technique (as a complete aside)?
For my money, this is a priceless tool if we are in a position where we MUST have interactions with spaths, people that fit the profile, or just plain toxic individuals. The LESS they are provided, the LESS damage they can inflict. They can’t use what they don’t have, and their targets invariably give them what they don’t have – that’s why they’re targets, to begin with.
“Grey Rock” and “Feelings are not facts” have really been instrumental in my healing processes. And, both of these techniques are VITAL for children to learn. If a child learns that they aren’t obligated to tolerate toxic behaviors or respond to them, they have the first and most strongest bricks in their boundaries – Grey Rock gives a child OPTIONS instead of obligations. When a child learns that it’s okay to “feel” something, but that how they may be “feeling” is based upon misconceptions and predictions, they are introduced to understanding the nasty roots of anxiety disorders – facts can redirect those feelings into a pragmatic direction.
I’m almost imagining where Gene Rodenberry came up with the character study of Vulcans. This alien civilization HAD no weaknesses because they supressed their FEELINGS and relied upon fact and logic to determine their course of actions.
Odd, huh? That a fantasy series might have some grain of common sense….
Brightest blessings
I think skylar was the original gray rock person. She met that guy in a bar, right?
Yep, Skylar and the stranger in the bar.
Truthspeak,
a guy in a sushi bar told me about “being boring” to get rid of the spaths. I named it gray rock and wrote an article about it this year.
It’s not about suppressing your emotions, it’s about not showing them. God knows suppressing them has not helped me throughout the years, it only made me ignore my gut instincts.
Now I listen to my emotions, though suppressing them is a bad habit I have. And I’m really bad at gray rock too. But getting better, I hope.
Generally, being ignorant about my emotions and those of others, has been my problem. It just never occurred to me that people were faking their love to such an extreme. And it never occurred to me that people were manipulating my emotions for their fun and games, because, WHO DOES THAT?
So, when I left my spath, I was sitting in a sushi bar completely at a loss as to what kind of catastrophe had happened in my life. When a man started to make small talk with me, I just poured out my story to him. He said, “Oh, that’s a malignant narcissist.” and he explained about spaths to me. I will always be grateful to him.
When I found LF, I told people what he had said. Then earlier this year people asked me to write it down so that there would be an easy reference guide. So I wrote an article for LF.
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2012/02/10/the-gray-rock-method-of-dealing-with-psychopaths/
Truthspeak,
regarding “facts and feelings” this has been a very interesting topic to me, so I have delved into it a bit!
As far as BPD goes, my understanding is that they misinterpret their feelings as FACT and then react accordingly, even though a lot of what is going on is based on their inwardly turned perspective and cannot take into account the perspective of others. it is all about THEM and THEIR feelings. In that moment, when emotion takes over (emotional reactivity).
I have also heard about the reptilian or emotional brain, vs. the more logical, higher brain. I know from experience, too, that if my emotional brain takes over (if emotions get the better of me, like if I get triggered without realizing it), it prevents my logical brain from functioning; emotional brain is then dominant, in that moment. I even saw this last night in one of my daughters who was trying to write an essay but just couldn’t figure it out — she had a meltdown and was sobbing, and I could see that she was not in any fit state to focus and concentrate on the writing of her essay: her logical brain had “switched off.”
HOWEVER…. I am very dubious about ranking the logical part of our brain as superior to the emotional part of our brain. I have also heard (and I do believe this is true) that the highest form of thinking and knowing values BOTH parts of our brains, it is a synthesis of the two, or an integration of the two, or a partnership of the two.
Logic is useful, but it can be cold-hearted and spathic. I think this is the genesis of “one size fits all” policies, for example.
And being ruled by our emotions, or being “emotionally reactive” leads to rage attacks, abuse, abandonment of principle and appreciation for others’ perspectives.
So I do truly think that it is an “aware” mix of the two that works best.
Feelings are not exactly “facts,” but feelings are part of our instinct that protects us and part of our intuition and what makes us human (though other animals have emotions, too).
I think for some of us it is like being handed a wild horse which we need to figure out how to tame and ride, and although it may be harder for those of us who were given wild horses as opposed to already tamed ones, if we can learn to appreciate that gift and use it wisely (with logic), then we are in for a treat, as this gift of emotion helps us connect with others, is the basis of compassion (as opposed to just “doing what is right” because you are following rules) and creativity.
As for how it may apply to “gray rock,” I think it is important to learn that your emotions/feelings ARE very real things, it is an energy that the spath picks up on, and rather than transmitting that on an open channel to any and all spaths/people who do not have your best interest at heart, learn to be more selective in your transmitting (and receiving) — protect yourself and do NOT give your spath the key by showing your true emotions.
Being bland and boring works best because that is of the least interest to the spath and he/she will look elsewhere for supply.
As far as being told that it is OK to “feel” but that our feelings may be based on misconceptions…. that is a tricky one. I would be careful of invalidating someone’s feelings. Especially where spaths are concerned, because of the deceptions involved in how they present themselves. I think that the confusion of cognitive dissonance has a lot to do with what our emotional brain is telling us, not aligning with what our logical brain is telling us. That is why I think valuing our emotions is of equal importance.
20years,
The wild horses analogy resonates with me.
In my case I had wild horses and instead of teaching me how to tame them, my parents liked to startle them to watch them buck and run. The spath did likewise. They found immense pleasure in the drama of the wild horses. Considering that, it’s a miracle I’m not a crazy borderline myself.
When you are a child, your parents are supposed to help you manage your emotions until you can learn to do that yourself. Some parents decide that this “control” they have is a game that makes them feel powerful when they push your buttons. They abuse the power of parenthood for their own selfish ego trip. It’s pathetic. Unfortunately, what the child learns is that they are not supposed to learn to manage their emotions, instead they are supposed to provide drama for others to watch and enjoy.
Skylar,
To expand “wild horses” a bit further…
I thought of this one 3 years ago when my daughter cut herself and most of the people who swarmed into our lives thought these various things:
1. I am a bad mother
2. she is a “cutter”
3. she should go to a mental institution
4. she should take psychiatric meds
5. she should be forced into reunification therapy with her dad
6. her mom is poisoning her mind with parental alienation
7. she is unstable
8. she has BPD
9. she needs dialectial behavior therapy
10. she needs to have forced therapy
11. she needs a complete psychiatric evaluation
12. this mother is wrong and is harming her daughter
13. she is crazy and we need to stay away from her in case she influences our children
14. the whole family is crazy and we need to shun them
15. she is suicidal and this mother is not taking this risk seriously
And many others.
Well…. I have to tell you, YES it felt like a swarm of strangers glomming onto our family, criticizing endlessly, pointing the finger of blame everywhere but at the elephant in the room (she was scared by a very scary encounter with her spath dad, and her spath step mom had suggested that she could “cut herself” to reduce stress!)
I knew that my daughter and I needed peace and for people to leave us alone to process the experience safely and in our own way, in our own time, to regain stability. Too much cacophony was only upsetting and DESTABILIZING my daughter further: “Hurry up and calm down!!! CALM DOWN!!!!” it felt like they were yelling at her. And at me.
Well that is NOT effective. It makes it worse, and the blame gets piled even higher on the person who is reacting emotionally.
(As an aside…. my daughter needed ME to be strong. Any “expert” who told me that I was screwed up or a bad mother or neglecting my daughter…. WAS SO WRONG. And wrong-ful. Their actions and words were undermining to me. They should have been supporting me and building me up to be a stronger support to my daughter. Instead they were doing everything they could to tear me down and weaken me, which would have been very detrimental to my daughter’s well being. I saw through these attacks and withdrew/retreated in order to build up a safe space for us to heal). My approach was NOT the preferred approach recommended by the experts. But hey, it’s the one that worked.
This “wild horses” analogy worked beautifully with my daughter.
i told her that we are all given horses to ride, and we have to ride the horse we are given. Some people are given tame horses and others are given wild horses. The task to ride a wild horse is much harder, and the tame horse people don’t get this. They can only judge based on their own experience. And sometimes the wild horse people don’t understand that not everyone is given a wild horse, and they blame themselves for having such difficulty or feel ashamed. But it is not that they are doing anything wrong! it will just take time and effort and determination to learn to tame your horse, ride it well — and if you succeed in doing it — it is SO worthwhile, you will know what YOU accomplished, you are more in touch with who your horse IS, and those others won’t appreciate the gift that you have been given. I told her she is “lucky” that she got a wild horse, even if it doesn’t seem that way now, that the gifts will be apparent, if she persists.
I think “wild horse” can mean several things. It can mean your emotional reactivity (learning to tame that but still appreciating that your horse can ride really fast and exciting!). It can mean your challenges (not everyone has to deal with a spath dad).
I also told her that emotions are gift — that she feels DEEPLY and that is a GIFT. She may feel her pain more intensely than other people, but she will also feel her joys more intensely, and it is good to learn to appreciate this and also realize that emotions are a bit like a musical instrument. You learn to play it well…. some people have a range of 8 octaves, and some only have 2. Maybe you learn to play yours mostly in the middle, but you learn how to reach down deeply when called for, or soar to incredible heights given the right opportunity. Just know that you can learn to be more the master of your instrument (or horse, or emotions) rather than allowing it to run wild or not be able to get the right sound out of it.
I love my daughter so much. She went through a LOT, these past 3 years. Enough time has passed that she is now seeing the truth that no one could seem to see but me: she is normal, she is not BPD, she does not need to go to a mental institution or take psychiatric meds, she has a good mom, she is NOT a cutter, she is NOT suicidal, she has great gifts and is a great gift herself.
So to the swarm, I say lay off and realize that maybe you DON’T know, though you are “expert.”
20 years,
thank you for expressing that. You’ve given me a lot to think about, especially about feeling deeply, both the pains and the joys.
I always knew that I felt things more deeply than others, or that I was more “reactive”. It felt like a curse, because I was living with a spath, so I learned to shut down my feelings and not feel them.
That helped me survive life with a spath, but at the same time, it almost killed me. I was using one of two choices: either repressing the emotions and not reacting, or feeling them and having a meltdown. I didn’t realize that there was a 3rd choice: listen to the emotions and then decide what the proper course of action is by using my intellect.
Granted, without the knowledge of psychopaths, it was going to be very difficult to know the correct course of action. That’s why I’m so grateful to have learned what I know now. And also why I want to educate everyone I can. It really needs to be taught at an early age.
Skylar,
YES!!!!! Your emotions are your inner guidance system, and they are your “gift” or your connection to God, or to your source. They are your antennae into the world to be able to apprehend and appreciate the nuances of beauty and pathos that is all around us.
There is NOTHING wrong with emotions. Learning to appreciate this gift and use it is taming the wild horse.
I think it is very hard to learn this if we grow up in a family that toys with our feelings, or shames us for having feelings, or invalidates our feelings by telling us they are incorrect, or tells us bad is good, and good is bad. THAT is emotional abuse.
And yes, the second part of this as you put it, is to learn to listen to what your emotions are telling you and then use your intellect to help you decide what to do with them.