Last week, after publishing ThePsychoExWife.com and the First Amendment, Lovefraud received the following letter:
I want to commend you and thank you for your website. It is a service to all survivors and the people that love them and, if you’ll permit me, I do want to open a dialogue with you about some concerns I have about the site.
I have read everything possible about sociopathy from a graduate student perspective and from my own experience with a violent sociopath and several other moderate paths, as well as other random people and family members that fit various DSM criteria, I am concerned that your site is very black and white and that people will be misled to their detriment. As I am sure you know, sociopathy, like any other DSM diagnosis, is on a continuum and not all sociopaths exhibit or act out all path behavior, meaning each path is an individual and, although, they all have indicators, behaviors and thought processes that are similar they are not all the same and, most importantly, not all are equally dangerous.
I have been intending to email you for many weeks now but the piece on the psychoexwife.com motivated me to proceed. Borderline Personality Disorder is a very complex disorder, as all mental disorders are, and although it is related to sociopathy as the article stated, again, not all people under that diagnosis are equally afflicted and they are not usually physically dangerous to anyone but themselves—cutting, for example. In fact, many BPD people do not self-harm at all. People categorically need to protect themselves at all costs and I absolutely commend you and your site for the diligence in advocating that point but an ex-husband diagnosing an ex-wife without a medical degree is iffy at best and as someone who survived a VIOLENT (serial rapist) path and was labeled the “scorned ex-girlfriend” when I tried to report him, I am extremely wary of anyone or any public information that fosters the belief system that women that speak up against violence in a domestic situation are “psycho.” Isn’t that what your site loudly tries to expose? How we frame our dialogue is crucially important to our goals and success. Buying into the dominant paradigm to make our point hurts us more than we realize by reinforcing the belief that all women are potentially psycho and, therefore, should not be believed when they report domestic and sexual violence. I am very surprised by the position you took on psychoexwife.com. I would need a lot more information before I could take a side there.
My main point other than my comments about PsycoExWife.com is that most everything I read here and everywhere else talks about sociopaths lacking a conscience as an absolute—they just don’t have one period. Lack of conscious is certainly the defining feature, overall, in my experience, with paths but it is very hard to measure and most paths hide that with varying degrees of success so my concern is that most people without experience dealing with paths will not understand that there are degrees to which paths in general have or don’t have a conscious. A conscious is not a tangible thing you can see directly and it’s not that anyone has one 100% or 0%. The literature in general seems to always say you either have one or you don’t. I think that is misleading.
I appreciate the thoughtful concerns of this reader. Let me address the points that she brought up.
First of all, I was very surprised by the reaction of many readers to last week’s story about ThePsychoExWife.com. To me, the website is similar to Lovefraud—the main difference being that it is primarily about disordered women, rather than disordered men.
The email criticized Mister-M, the author of the website, for diagnosing his ex-wife as having borderline personality disorder, because he isn’t a qualified professional. Well, we do this on Lovefraud all the time. My ex-husband, to my knowledge, has never been professionally diagnosed. But I am quite comfortable with my conclusion that he is a sociopath. I am comfortable enough to write an entire book about it—Love Fraud: How marriage to a sociopath fulfilled my spiritual plan.
ThePsychoExWife.com advocates “low contact” with the disordered individuals. That’s “no contact” for people who have no choice but to interact because of children—essentially the same advice Lovefraud offers.
So why the visceral reaction to the article by many Lovefraud readers? Thinking about it, it seemed to me that some of you may have been triggered by the website. Readers commented that the name of the website itself was a red flag. I can understand that—you may have been accused of being the “psycho ex” by, of course, your “psycho ex.” You may have been subject to language similar to that used on the website. The articles are written with a sarcastic, “can-you-believe-she-pulled-this-crap?” tone. I have heard a similar tone in my ex-husband’s statements.
Thankfully, I’ve healed enough that I wasn’t triggered by the website. I will admit that I don’t know for sure who is right or wrong in Mister-M’s situation. But I interpreted the tone of his articles as utter frustration with a woman who he believes is not acting in the best interest of the children, and a court system that allows her to get away with it.
Underserved male audience
I do know that what he writes is perfectly plausible. We don’t get many men telling their stories publicly in the Lovefraud forum—probably because they don’t feel at home amid all the complaints and stories about disordered males. After all, the Lovefraud audience is 80 percent women who have tangled with exploitative men.
But I have communicated with many men privately. Through email and phone conversations, they’ve told me about the hell their ex-wives, the mothers of their children, put them through. They tell me of children neglected, emotionally abused, and yes, fed so much junk food that they are obese, and suffering ridicule in school because of it.
I’ve always felt that Lovefraud underserved the male victims of disordered women. So I was glad to see that there was a website for them. And, reading the letters and comments that ThePsychoExWife.com received from its readers, they appreciated, and learned from, the forum.
I frequently receive letters from people thanking Lovefraud for saving their lives. ThePsychoExWife.com receives those letters too.
Range of behaviors
Now, about the other concern raised in the letter at the beginning of this article: The author is absolutely correct. Sociopathy is continuum. Sociopaths—and people with borderline personality disorder—are not all the same. Some are definitely worse than others.
Lovefraud makes this point in several places. In fact, here’s what I write on the What’s a Sociopath? page of Lovefraud.com:
Sociopaths exhibit a range of behaviors. In fact, Dr. Hare diagnoses them according to their score on a scale. So just as you could describe someone’s intelligence as ranging from smart to genius, you could describe a sociopath as somewhere between sleazy and serial killer. If you see sleazy, he or she may be on the low end of the scale, but they’re still bad news.
Our other Lovefraud authors have also addressed this point in blog articles. In Experienced clinician says psychopathy is a spectrum, Dr. Liane Leedom wrote:
The idea that psychopathy is a spectrum and that “sociopaths/psychopaths” vary in severity means that there is no real point at which “normal” stops and “sociopath/psychopath” starts. Any decision about where to draw this line (after gathering information on a large group of people) is in a sense arbitrary.
The idea that “psychopathic disturbance” (as Dr. Meloy calls it) is a spectrum can be very confusing. Many people feel a sense of relief when they finally figure out that the person who has harmed them is “a sociopath.” By “sociopath” they mean categorically different from everyone else, a different type of human. Now I am saying there is really no category, just an extreme on a continuum.
Then, a few weeks ago, Steve Becker, LCSW, wrote an article that really gets to the heart of the problem, called, The special problem of the “sort of” sociopath. He wrote:
There are individuals with whom I work, not infrequently, whom I’d describe as, in some sense, “fall between the crack” personalities. These individuals have sociopathic tendencies. They are almost always chronically abusive one way or another.
Although they may not precisely meet every criterion of the textbook sociopath, still they exhibit, often (and historically) enough, the kinds of sociopathic abuses (and rationalizations of their abuses) that make them sociopathic enough to be avoided as assiduously as the full-blown sociopath.
Interestingly, these individuals can pose worse dangers than pure, unequivocal sociopaths for the very reason that it’s possible to find features of their personality that do not conform exactly to the textbook sociopath’s, leaving one dangerously more optimistic that her partner may be capable of the change and personal growth worth the wait, and suffering.
I’ve put that last paragraph in bold text, and I’ve never put an entire paragraph in bold text on the Lovefraud Blog.
Yes, our email writer is correct. Sociopathy is not a black-and-white issue; there are degrees of disorder. But it doesn’t matter. Partially disordered people are still damaging, and you do not want to have them in your life.
This is Lovefraud’s main message: Sociopaths exist, here’s what they look like, and they are bad for you.
The shades of gray may be important for researchers or therapists. But the objective for the rest of us is simply to keep these people out of our lives. We certainly want to avoid the seriously disordered. But the partially disordered still have the capacity to make us partially miserable. I’d rather not be miserable at all.
Thanks for the moral support. Unfortunately, knowledge is empowering, but it isn’t power. To know the truth but not be able to prove it is very defeating.
What many people don’t understand is that my ex is telling the truth when he testifies…. he really believes all the things he says…. so it is HIS truth, it just isn’t the REAL TRUTH. He is very believable because he really believes the things he says. He is so believable, that even though he is talking about me and I know what is real, I question myself and wonder if what I said or did could have been perceived the way he portrays it… I wonder if he misinterpreted my words…. I wonder…..WAIT…. I know what I said or did–his version is warped….. I KNOW THIS….. yet his lies always are built around a small grain of truth, so it’s difficult.
I have read LF for several years; this has been a great source of comfort and understanding for me and my mom…. but really, more needs to be DONE. We can share and heal ourselves, but at some point, something must be done. I don’t know about anyone else’s situation, but these people are so clever, so good at the game, the innocent victim is left without resources or even the ability to get help.
It’s not about getting even, it’s about having decisions based on the truth, the real truth, not a sociopath’s version of the truth. For five years I have been the victim of his distortions; I’m financially ruined; my mother got a reverse mortgage on her paid for house to help pay my custody lawyer (which means my siblings inheritance is forfeited); my children have sacrificed…. all because this person is unable to let go and get on with his life…. it is very sad and must be stopped!
Dear Irishsuds,
I totally agree with you! I wish I could tell you that “the truth will always win” but you know and I know, that is not the truth, sometimes falsehood does win.
I am so glad though that you do have a mother who is not only able but willing to put herself on the line for you….sorry that she has to do so though, because it is soooo unnecessary. The suffering that the psychopaths cause can be and is devastating.
The only thing of any potential comfort that I can say is that I have had to learn to VALIDATE myself and realize that yes, he does believe the lies, and some other people believe those lies, but I KNOW THE FACTS. “Truth” is not necessarily the facts….
I wish you well and you are in my prayers. (((hugs)))
IRISH SUDS
Here is an article about in-justice that might be helpful to you, or maybe not, but I think it will help some people who are victimized by abusers.
http://www.timesupblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/injustice-system.html
IrishSuds,
I hear you! My ex-spath believes his lies, coming across to me as mentally unstable. All of the spath’s current problems could have been prevented had he used Common Sense. He lacks the know-how of how to maneuver in life. I don’t know if he was always so st_pid or if he covered it up fairly well for a long time. He is getting worst over time. Mentally, I still get drained by his antics because his actions affect all of us, especially his children.
Hi Irish, Welcome.
“To know the truth but not be able to prove it is very defeating.”
Aint that the truth. meh. Fortunately in my case, the spath also likes to tell elaborate lies, that he KNOWS are lies.
And he is TERRIBLE at it! LOL!
In court, his lawyer attested to the “fact” that spath was, “Best Friends”, with my eldest son, (from my previous marriage), and that he often visited my daughter, in my son’s home, and bathed and cared for her there.
At no time had spath ever “cared” for our daughter, and my son despises him. Spath is well aware of those facts.
My son was serving in Iraq at the time of this particular hearing,( spath knew that and so thought his story could not be disproved. DUH!). My son sent an affidavit attesting to the truth, and the fact that he witnessed spath’s violent, disturbed behavior, and was in support my opinion that my daughter should be afforded every protection at the courts disposal.
Of course, spath’s lies where ignored, not a mention was made. (except by me, as when I stood to represent myself, my first words were,”Well, so much for “To Tell The Truth, So Help Me God”!).
Long story short(er), Spath eventually, got four hours, every Sat. Unsupervised. He has/is always threatening to take my daughter from me. I used to be much more anxiety ridden, than I am now, (I am still horribly anxious at times, but I am improving.).
A friend pointed out that what he really wanted was for me to FEAR him. Not custody of my daughter. He was granted a make-up visit once, (due to an error, he missed out on the first visit). He began badgering me to let him combine two visits into an eight hour visit. I was a wreck trying to figure out if he was legally entitled to that or not. Then my friend said calmly:
“Give it to him. Just let him have her for eight hours strait. Come hang by the pool with me and relax, he doesn’t want to take care of a kid, he just wants to stress you out about her. ”
That was SO true! That Sat, I told him, I though it would be ok to combine the visits, ( he was coming to my city, so she would be near me). Within an hour, he called to, “invite” me to have lunch with them. LOL!
Let’s see, I could spend the day with spath, helping him with child care…OR…Lounging by the pool relaxing with friends…LOL! I declined lunch. but told him, I’d catch up with them later that evening.
I did that, because I knew my girl would be exhausted, and I wanted to go help her out. Get her home and to bed.
After that spath “missed” the next THREE visits in a row.
So I know he doesn’t really want full custody. I only fear that he will meet a disturbed women who does. ( like the one that paid for his lawyer initially.). He used to speak often of “replacing me with a better mother”. ( As IF! 🙂 )
It doesn’t sound like your spath wants full time parenting responsibilities either, you mention he does not use all of his parenting time…
I used to become (literally), sick when I had to go to court with spath. ( I had over TWO YEARS NC. before he had me served Never had to see him once in all that time. My God I miss THAT!).
I read something here the other day, that Sam Vakin, a self-declared Narc, said all you have to do is continually harass and terrorize your target, and the victims own stress response does them in.
I have become determined that, whenever I can, I will calm and reassure myself, rather than “Do myself in” FOR him.
It So hard when the courts don’t recognize whats going on. They gave my spath the right to know my address, and anywhere my daughter and I might be, (Dr’s Dentist, Schools and activities), I am stuck, (for now), with his intrusive harmful, and potentially lethal influence in my life. And even though LOTS of people KNOW it. It hasn’t made much difference legally. 🙁
Anna, Skylar speak AFAIK = as far as I know.
Ana and SK,
thanks SK for answering Ana, I had seen her question and then I lost the thread.
For some reason, I can’t seem to keep up with the thread today.
Yes, Ana, it means As Far As I Know.
gotto go and get stuff done.
Thanks SK & Skylar!
LOL I never would of guessed that one 🙂
I just watched a video today by Susan Milano-Murphy who is a DV expert as well as a survivor of homicide. it is at
http://www.timesupblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/injustice-system.html
and it talks about how Drew Petersen’s trial judge just ruled that much if not all of the real testimony about his deeds were “hearsay” and a lot was ruled inadmissible…and she recommended making a video tape of what has gone on so that EVIDENCE is left in case he does something to you or to your child. It is a very good idea.
My sons and I did that before my P-son’s last parole hearing just in case he got one or more of us bumped off before his hearing. We wanted to have our peace said, even after our deaths.
DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT!!!! Keep records, and copies of records, in a safe deposit box, as well as with a friend. Keep a journal of his visits, dates, times and places when he shows or doesn’t show. Keep all e mails, voice mails etc. as well.
BUILD your case against his “loving father” routine! He will do himself in eventually. God bless.
I totally agree with this
Ox,
I never thought of making a video! I don’t know why… I have cell/email, evidence, plus I keep a journal/log, and all the documents, (no small accumulation, at this point!). I have been looking at getting a Digital Voice Recorder…Love The video idea. Thanks! I’ll have to go read that article.