By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
How we define words and concepts helps us to see human behavior in a realistic way. When people make bad choices, and do bad things, things they know are wrong, they ARE still CHOICES, not accidents or mistakes, even though the consequences were unforeseen when they are caught and punished.
I’ve frequently heard people refer to what I consider to be deliberate and knowing “choices” as “mistakes.” In the sentence, “he made a mistake and robbed a liquor store,” my inclination is to scream, “NO, he did NOT make a ”˜mistake,’ he made a deliberate choice to rob a liquor store.” The mistake was he didn’t figure he would get caught, and he was wrong. He got caught and went to prison. The mistake, if any, was in thinking he would not get caught.
Wikipedia defines mistake: “A mistake is an error caused by a fault: the fault being misjudgment, carelessness, or forgetfulness. Now, say that I run a stop sign because I was in a hurry, and wasn’t concentrating, that is a mistake.”
Wikipeida also defines choice: “Choice consists of the mental process of judging the merits of multiple options and selecting one of them. While a choice can be made between imagined options (“what would I do if …?”), often a choice is made between real options, and followed by the corresponding action.”
Every living human starts making choices the moment we awaken each day. Do I get up, or do I stay in bed? Do I brush my teeth first or start the coffee? Sometimes our choices lead to unforeseen consequences that we do not want, but the mistake was in figuring out what the consequences of our actions would be, not in the choice we made, unwise though it may have been. The choice was a deliberate one.
Dickey Ray Chance
According to the public records held in the Marion County, Arkansas, Circuit Clerk’s Office concerning the investigation and arrest of Dickey Ray Chance for child pornography and Internet stalking of a child on July 19th, Chance is quoted as saying, “I realize what I have done is wrong and I am really sorry for the wrong I have committed. A terrible mistake on my behalf and (I) wish that it had never happened.”
Chance’s behavior over a one-year period to carry on a sexually explicit Internet conversation with a person identified as a 14-year-old girl was a choice. The mistake was in judging the consequences of his behavior, and finding out that the “girl” was a Marion County sheriff’s deputy. He immediately lost his job, his benefits, his home, his wife and family, as well as his status in the community and his ability to make a living.
The unintended consequence (being arrested) of his behavioral choice was a mistake, but what he did was a choice.
Making excuses
Many times the people we think have a high level of psychopathic traits will excuse their choices as “mistakes” in an effort to shift the blame for those choices off themselves. There is no doubt that Chance knew it was both legally wrong and morally wrong for him to carry on a sexual discussion over the Internet, or any other way, with a 14-year-old girl, yet he chose to do this action multiple times over a one-year period. This was no error in judgment; it was a deliberate choice. His error in judgment was in thinking he could get away with this behavioral choice without having any legal consequences, and without being exposed as a pedophile.
My psychopathic son, Patrick, knew it was “wrong” to steal, he knew it was “wrong” to kill, yet he made the choices to do both. The mistake he made, however, was in thinking that he would not get caught, even without making much, if any, effort to disguise who had committed those crimes. In fact, he actually bragged about his intention to kill his victim before he did so, and afterwards as well. The choice to kill her was just that, a choice, but the biggest mistake in his life was in not realizing that some other people, even among his petty-criminal associates who, while they may have been dishonest, were not full-fledged psychopaths, and would not view his choices as admirable and macho.
People high in psychopathic traits frequently make choices that harm other people, thinking they can get away unscathed by consequences for these choices. The man who decides to cheat on his wife, but when he gets caught, cries about what a “mistake” it was and how “sorry he is for having hurt her.” The person who steals something, then when caught cries about how they “made a mistake,” hoping the victim of their choice will give them unearned trust again and forgiveness for their “mistake.” The criminal bank robber or rapist wants the public to view his/her behavior as a “mistake,” almost an “accident,” that happened rather than as a deliberate evil choice to do wrong.
The word “mistake” even indicates to me an “accidental” nature of an event, rather than a consequence of a deliberate choice. When we choose to give unearned trust to a repeat offender of bad choices, the same way a parole board lets a bank robber out of prison early when he pleads “I’ve learned my lesson, it was just a big mistake,” we are also making a choice, and we will have to deal with those consequences of our choices. In dealing with a psychopath, I can almost guarantee it will be a mistake with consequences we won’t like.
Lone Wolf, I DO want to kill him. He was probably hoping I would or something sick like that so we would be bonded for life.
Constantine, you are only hearing about the year after the love-bombing, that’s why. He was a perfect angel for the first 6 months. Speaking of animals, he even had a cat, which actually came into his life suddenly after I did. I now realize that he got the cat because I had a cat. He always made a big display about petting dogs we passed to demonstrate that he “loves animals” as much as I do. The first 6 months that I knew him he was like my hero, he swept me off my feet with roses and romantic text messages ALL DAY (red flag I missed), and all his speeches about feminism. YES feminism! He presented himself as a feminist and made strong arguments against his own true beliefs (which I only later discovered). He love bombed me to high heaven, to say it in a few words. He love bombed me to smithereens. And remember too that he swooped in after his best friend, spath #1, had slept with me and then dumped me cold after telling me he loved me. Then in came spath #2 saying how he was going to kill his friend over how he had treated me, that I was such a valuable, beautiful creature, such a GOOD PERSON bla bla bla. He caught me when I was weak. I thought he was my soulmate because he studied what I wanted and became it to the T. He was into art, music, philosophy, humanism. He was attentive, a good listener, patient, understanding. He looked deep into my eyes when he said he loved me. He cried in my arms and told me that he had been looking for me all his life and then begged me to please never hurt him, because he was like a baby in my arms.
He manipulated my emotions into thinking I had found my soulmate, like a demon showing up on my doorstep as a puppy that grew quickly into a protective, loyal, and loving dog, and then tried to kill me.
Everyone it’s really late here and I’m exhausted. I am going to sleep now.
Catch you all later.
Thanks for your view Constantine.
Bye
yeah Panther,
I know it’s funny, but it’s one percent true about what happened. It’s funny in hindsight, and when I was playing with his head, I felt quite satisfied to “one-up” him, but there was another feeling I had at the same time. It’s hard to describe it. Maybe it was a WTF? feeling. And also a feeling of disgust. Yes, that was it: disgust. I found it disgusting that he could hate me so much, that he wanted to see me suffer. Since there was no reason for it because I had loved him with all my heart and was willing to literally bend over and strain my back to make his back better.
This is a critical element about spaths. You see, most people think that for a spath to want to hurt you so much, you must have done something to deserve it. They assume a fiery relationshit with drama on both sides. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. I gave and gave, he took and took, and he hated me for it.
Yet, I overlooked it. And now I know it was because my family was the same way and I was forced to overlook it then. I thought it was normal to be so disgusting. Yuck. I don’t anymore.
SO TRUE! ROFL Santa!
It does sound like the same man! Sky, my ex was a musician (damn good too), spiritual (okay that turned out to be a complete joke), sensitive, blah blah blah. He also hurt his back, but that was when he was with his ex, and she had to “take care of him”. He always whinned about it to me, but I have a crappy back so he got no where with me. I told him, if you rub my back, I will rub yours. He refused to give me more than a 3 min back rub, so that is all he got from me.
Panther, my ex wanted me to buy his unemployed ass all sorts of stuff, too. I didn’t, though. I told him to get a job and take me out once in a while, well after he starting supporting himself instead of living off of others.
You know, the more I think about it, the more I realize I was mean to my ‘ poor’ spath the last half of our relationship. I was very nice and went along with his crap up until the point I felt like he was using me. That was also about the time he started being mean to me. He was oh so sweet and loving before that. He acted like I walked on water.
So, him and his family (they were all the same, sucking and using everyone dry around them) for something (ie a ride, money, beer, anything) and I would say no. That really started pissing them all off. “Can I borrow X?” “no.” It soon became no, no, no…. And then I would ask him why he never ever took me out. Why did he expect me to take him out and pay for things? Why did he not work? Why did he think he was special and could mooch off of everyone? I told him I thought he was a total user and had no real friends, since he only wanted to see them when they had something (ie beer coke) he wanted.
I started calling him out on everything. He kept getting worse, too. The things that came out of this man’s mouth in a matter of months became more and more shocking. He started talking about how he was going to start stealing and robbing from his neighbors, because “they had so much and he didn’t.” I told him because they freaking WORKED! I told him that most of them had gone to college, and spent years working for what they had (he lived in an older ppl upper mid class neighbor in a home they inherited from his gma.), and that he could have done the same. I told him it was his fault he wasted and continued to waste his life away.
I also kicked him out of my home or got up and left when he started being mean to me. My big screw up was feeling sorry for him and letting him come back into my life each week afterwards. That was before I found out some ppl were permanently broken.
I should have been done for good way back when it started. I knew something wasn’t right with him from the beginning. I can say that by the time it was over, he made me sick. I think I hated him. I was so happy when he was gone.
I think I felt more sorry for him being so damn stupid. No intelligent person says or does the things he does. Yep, 5 year olds are more intelligent, understanding, and easier to deal with than spaths! I would take a kid, in the mist of a terrible 2 or 3 tantrum, any day over a grown spath!
Panther
I hope you slept well.
I can see that short tho my prior post was, I did not make my meaning clear. i mean to say that whilst of course, you might want to kill him -as i would- that you were stoical in choosing not to do that.
The contrast between the harm they do and our patience and stoicism in response is staggering..it really does feel as if we are alien species sharing the same planet.
Quote Constantine:
“I’ve said this before, but I think the whole “soulmate” notion is very dangerous, as it creates an exaggerated idea of what other people can do for us. In the end, we don’t find “salvation” or happiness through other people ”“ we find these things in ourselves. And whether we happen to meet another like-minded person on our journey of self-discovery, well, that is more of an afterthought than anything else.”
TOWANDA!!!! Connie! How true, how TRUE!!!!! Happiness only comes from within ourselves….otherwise it is not really stable because it depends on something outside ourselves….and then it can go away, be stolen, vanish or in some way be lost. Only that inner happiness and peace can never be taken away.
I ultimately let my happiness DEPEND on my husband, and when he died, I lost my everything. He didn’t deliberately die, frankly I’m sure he would have chosen to live that day if he hadn’t been so terribly injured, but he didn’t have a choice.
Now I can ENJOY my relationships with others, but my life doesn’t depend on it. Just like my relationship that ended last January with my “best friend” for 30+ years. She was a BIG part of my life, and I still have wonderful memories of our relationship, but it ended, I’m sorry about that, but it did not result in my happiness ending. My happiness did not depend on my friendship with her. My happiness depends on me.
My relationship with my son C essentially ended a year and a half ago, but though it was very painful to end that relationship, my LIFE AND HAPPINESS did not depend on having a relationship with him.
Just like Kim said, when I was a kid I wanted someone to take care of me, and ended up growing up to be a care taker of others myself. Now I take care of myself. I can SHARE with others who care for themselves, but I know I can not TAKE CARE of them and ultimately, no one can take care of me!
Panther,
OMG! I sat in that exact same position; down on the floor with my head in my hands as far into a corner i could get because like yours my ex would flip out at me when i got like that. he would be screaming at me too, but instead of saying i was giving him the silent treatment, he would be screaming at me to ANSWER HIM. i never thought it was me who was evil. i knew it was him. he would look at me and omg the evil that looked out at me, like someone who has a evil demon inside possessing their body. i would have to cower into a corner as far as i could fit because next came the pulling my hair and the punching. i’m sorry he hurt you cat. i have deep love for animals. i lost my dog Lucy to cancer 5 yrs ago. i didn’t stop crying for 3 yrs. now i remember the happy memories of her life, i had her since she was born, and she was only 8 when she was taken from me. but i still now and then will find myself crying sometimes because i miss her so very much. i copied the words to the rainbow bridge story on here and have it hanging on my bedroom wall now.
Ah, the “path lingo”. The aforesaid phrases are all too familiar. And I might have a few of my own.
It isn’t my fault you’re too stupid to understand what I’m saying.
I DID tell you. YOU weren’t listening.
I know I make mistakes sometimes. I’m only a demi-god.
It/he/she/they/you belong to me.
(After making someone cry) I maintain that she lacked sense of humour.
Pitiful.
I don’t care.
I don’t want people to do what I do. I want them to do what I tell them to do.
People are pathetic.
People are stupid.
The common man is a fool.
I am better/smarter than everyone else.
I’m not gloating. I’m simply stating a fact.
Gun for hire would be such an interesting career.
Leave, you say? Go ahead. I’ll find someone worthy of my time.
Why don’t you spend more time with me?
Leave me alone.
Hm… (Ignores)
You see? That’s why people judge you.
If you only listened to me, this wouldn’t have happened.
Oh, I’m sorry I offended your poor widdle feelers. I guess somebody should’ve told you the world isn’t full of rainbows and fluffy bunnies.
You’re so naive.
Every time you say that, a little part of me dies inside.
Yes, but no one cares what you think, so we’re going to do what I want to do.
You had it coming.
Haha.
You shouldn’t’ve poked the bear.
You’re such a child.
You’re such a spoiled brat.
Why do you love me? Why?
But I make up for all my flaws with my proficiency in the sac.
I know two psychopaths who are dating … each other (although, they deny it). They have, uh… some rather interesting conversations.
Meyers, can you get a recording of those conversations? They must be hilarious…..
This creature you’ve quoted above…wow. What that a female spath? Sheesh, they are certainly not any better. I’d love to throw her at my ex like a grenade and let them spar like Gladiators.
Sociopath claims to be cured:
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=68289
Interesting…and recent….I am tempted to respond to him….I’m so curious what he did and if he’s telling the truth.
Lone Wolf: Yes, the stoicism on my part was hard. VERY hard. I wasn’t only stoic because I didn’t have a mind to do something to avenge my little baby (my dear cat whom I loved very much), but because I was so afraid of him after realizing what he was truly capable of that I didn’t think it was even worth the risk to get close enough to him to kill him. He’s a lot bigger than me and probably would have won. But I have killed him in my head many times, after torture. In the end, the contrast is very staggering. I didn’t do anything to him…I just left him so that nothing and no one else that matters to me is compromised by his complete inability to have any morals whatsoever.
The hardest part in the end is knowing that I saw the signs and didn’t heed them, and as a result, I endangered a helpless animal that was reliant on me for its livelihood. I made a bad decision in staying with this guy, and someone I loved got hurt. I feel tremendous guilt for this. That cat trusted me the way an animal does…you know…when they would just let you do anything, hang them upside down, snuggle them for hours, take them to the vet without panicking. He really trusted me to keep him safe….and I let the devil in through the front door of our safe home. I am tormented by guilt over this and wonder every day if he is even still alive. I cannot bear the thought that he may have suffered in any way. Even to be away from me I know would hurt him, though, because we had a strong emotional bond and the cat would miss me. We were very close.