When we realize that we’ve been involved with a sociopath, and that person has callously betrayed us, we inevitably ask, “Why? Why did this happen to me?”
To help find the answer, one of the books that Lovefraud recommends is The Betrayal Bond—Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships, by Patrick J. Carnes, Ph.D. The book explains the deep psychological wounds caused by trauma, and offers a way for us to identify and overcome abusive relationships that we may have experienced.
When I read the book, I was struck by what Carnes wrote on page 68:
My experience with survivors of trauma is that every journey of recovery depends on the survivor coming to a point where all that person has gone through means something.
I believe there is meaning in what we have experienced at the hands of sociopaths. Here it is: The object of the exercise is to force us to jettison mistaken beliefs about ourselves.
Promising to fill the void
When sociopaths come into our lives, they snag us by promising to fill some void. For most of us on Lovefraud, the void is our missing soul mate, but sociopaths can also promise career success, monetary rewards, spiritual enlightenment—any number of things. (Please note: This dynamic doesn’t quite apply when sociopaths are family members.)
Sociopaths are experts at identifying our vulnerabilities and exploiting them. So the question becomes, why do we have the vulnerabilities in the first place? Here’s where the mistaken beliefs come in.
We believe we cannot attract a fulfilling romance.
We believe people only want us when we do something for them.
We believe we cannot succeed through our own efforts.
We believe we aren’t good enough.
We believe we are unlovable.
We believe there’s something wrong with us.
We believe we cannot cope with life by ourselves.
We believe other people come before ourselves.
We believe someone will come and make all our troubles disappear.
These just a few of the erroneous beliefs that create voids within us. Where do they come from? Perhaps from abuse in our past, as outlined in The Betrayal Bond.Perhaps they come from simple misperceptions. In any event, the sociopath steps right in to fill them.
Feel free to add your own mistaken beliefs to the list.
Critical juncture
So the sociopaths make promises—and break every one of them. At some point we wake up, come out of the fog, and realize that our lives have crumbled into piles of debris. That’s when we ask why? Why did this happen to me?
This is a critical juncture. We can certainly blame the sociopath—they are evil, and they deserve to be blamed. We can say it was fate, or luck, which is sometimes true—there are sociopaths who randomly assault or kill people. But in most of our cases, we believed the sociopath, went along with the charade, for a period of time. Why did we do this?
If we can find the answer to this question, we can discover the meaning in the betrayal by the sociopath.
As much as I hate to admit it, I did benefit from the destruction wrought by the sociopath I married. I am not the same person that I was before him—I am wiser, healthier and happier.
Why? Because I found and released all those mistaken beliefs.
Yes, it was painful. Yes, it was traumatic. But by looking for the meaning and undertaking the healing journey, my life is now much richer than it ever was.
Kathleen,
I think the behaviors and ‘status’ (wealth, positions etc…) are all a peception we are trained to ‘fear’ or be threatened by.
Like if we had a rich neighbor that came on our property and removed our fence because he didn’t ‘like’ it. He completely stepped on our rights, we are in the right…he is completely wrong…….yet he mentioned he has a lawyer in his back pocket and what are you going to do to me…….MOST would shy away……and feel downtrodden……and ‘go away’ without raising a ruckus.
If we WANT our fence and it’s important to US…….then WHY would we back down because he has a lawyer in his ‘back pocket’ per HIS statement of threat.
If we look at all people-good/bad whatever as equal to us…..then we have more inclination to protect ourselves. We don’t need to fear the unknown or the perception people portray. It’s all an act!!!!!
We all have insecurities….ALL OF US!!!
We all have weaknesses, we all buy into projections……..but MOST of the time, it’s all empty and the reality is…….nothing to be threatened by.
I remember in the years prior to separation from the S……I got to a point where I doubted myself and my own judgements……not for very long, but I toyed with the idea of “Maybe I should trust him, like a wife should” Maybe it’s me. Trust his judgements.
I NEVER trusted him…..I always knew, but wasn’t aware of it, that something wasn’t right.
As I grew older, I was in charge…..I took control of business affairs, finances, purchasing whatevers……..all of it……because I didn’t trust his judgements. Little things he would do would destruct……
Our financial advisor never knew or held a conversation with him…..EVER! He later said to me, with his married clients, he always dealt with the male. After the divorce, I told him why.
So…my point was…..because I was fully aware of my wishy washy and how I got there……I think after separation and going through med. hell……I had a point to prove to myself also!
I NEVER made a bad financial decision, I never made a poor business decision……so….yes……it’s me and me only driving this ship…..and I found the complete trust in myself and my jugements again.
Another driving force was during all the hell, he infected the kids and parents…….He started saying things that he said I agreed to or told him or statements I had made…..THAT I KNEW FULL WELL I WOULDN”T HAVE!!!!! Then the kids started doing the same……then the parents…..
I was sick and on meds, so I thought with some of them…..REALLY…..I agreed to that? It seemed odd to me and unsetteling……SO….that’s when I bought me a digi tape recorder……and started recording all conversations.
I was also odd that NO ONE else in my life ever called me out on something I had promised and didn’t provide or stated etc….it was just HIM, kids and then parents…..
After listening to the recordings, I KNEW I had not said what I was being convinced I had….again….self doubt, all a strategy.
I needed to confirm that I could trust myslef and my judgements……meds and all.
So the floodgates opened when I played back the tapes…..
I put a stop to that behavior immediately by informing them I had taped our conversations and I wasn’t going to put up with that crazymaking shit they were all trying to pull.
I have wrestled with turning ‘cold’….there are times when I have had to….momentarily….but I was aware of it and why and I didn’t BECOME a cold person…..
My therapist and I discussed on many occasions my calling on my ‘inner sociopath’ in my plight in protection. We decided It was not a bad thing, as long as I never lost sight of who I was and am.
I know the difference between right and wrong….and had to be aware of the balance of ME.
I don’t think I lost innocense to him (in the beginning at 13, yes), I think he played on my innocense …..I just grew up….I don’t think I lost my ability to love….because I have so many people that I have known for years but couldn’t get close to formerly, for my own reasons of keeping people at bay……and I am experiencing the love of strangers also, and I know what it feel like to love my kids…..Trust….well I am willing to trust…..there are people I have trusted through this with a bare soul….and others I am not as open with…but trust on some levels……I think that part of me has grown up too……I have re-evaluated why I just gave trust and allowed myself to be vulnerable and set myself up to be the one hurt or damaged…..Now , it must be earned, and I drive on that road looking for the potholes. I ‘test’ peoople too, and rely on my gut!
I do think I designed my own ‘fairytale’. I think I was raised with fairytale images and he latched on to it and acted the role on the outside…….
I remember laying in bed a handful of times, when couples share intimate thoughts and words…..hopes and dreams, ideas…..He went along with all my words…..as if he had writen the scripts. He was my husband, it was a time to be honest and bare souls…..WHY would I doubt him….I was baring my soul…..if we spoke of having 5 kids and he only wanted 2…….why would he say he always dreamed of having 5 kids…..planning our future out, the (what I thought) was the give and take conversations of dreams…..That would have been the time for him to speak up and also bare his soul of wanting to have sex with men and how would I feel about that….or maybe subsidizing our income with drug sales in order to have more security and retire earlier…..or how he maybe felt about having an open marriage…….This would have been a good time to get MY INPUT on these ideas he had already been living in his secret life.
But instead, he knew he could keep me around by allowing me to think we were parallell in our hopes and dreams……..and he knew I would never be okay with his secret life, so he went along with all of my ideals…..my fantasy of what I wanted from life and wanted to share it with this man. He was like being married to the government…..DOn’t ask-don’t tell was his policy. Take it to the grave.
I did mourn my fantasy…….or the reality of what I found out……and how my life previous was a facade…….a shell of what I wanted to share….. I questioned every day of the past 28 years…..and what was real where he was involved…….I came to the conclusion…..NOT Much……
The saving grace of this all was years ago, i decided I wasn’t going to ‘wait’ for him……He never wanted to camp or fish…..I went by myslelf and later the kids….He never wanted to leave home…..I travelled with the kids and a girlfriend….I started doing whatever I wanted. He never did anything traditional at the holidays…..the kids cried out…..why do we not have a tradition…..We developed them…….but the S never participated……
We got to the point when ONE time he came camping and it was all about him, we couldn’t wait for him to leave and go home…….he stayed one night. One night of misery!!!
I have also become much more confident in speaking up for myself. I avoided confrontation like the plague…I hid behind the S and allowed him to be the confrontator……he loved that role……But I have staff I need to manage, family I need to let know how they participated, and kids to raise. None of the necessary confrontations were going to “kill’ me, so I just do what I have to do, when I gotta do it.
The security…..wow….that has served me wonders…..and it’s funny because, I didn’t buy it for my safety or anything like how it’s turned out…..I bought the original cameras to watch the kids in the driveway play. I din’t have a window that faced that direction……But….he knows nothing get’s by me here. I mostly work at home and He used to say I was OCD about seeing what was going on around me…..
I also have secured other aspects of my life, I feel is essential…..like only allowing people ‘in’ that are genuine and ‘get it’……I have tried to close all avenues of ‘attack’.
I do know he will not be ‘gone’ forever…..he’s been quiet for far too long……I believe the attack will come when the oldest turns 18 in may….he may wait until the harassment order is up in July……but I feel he is laying low and NOT because he’s tired of me.
I was just thinking today about all the peole he has to pick up his slack of being an idiot. His sister in law writes letters for him, his brother gets his mail and forwards it and sorts it……banking also…….he has other supply arranging flights and taxes and others doing his dirty work trying to infiltrate us…….and retreive whatever it is he has here…
He is such an idiot…..he would never be compelled to learn about things in order to be successful in life……his way to success is through others…….and others will always be willing to ‘feel sorry’ for him and ‘step up’…….until they are ‘stepped on’! And it WILL happen…..
I look at all the poeple he has gone through….all his ‘friends’ and how they all said….dude, i’d do anything for you……and I wonder if any of them notice….that when their fathers die….where the hell is he? When they have trauma, or need help….where is he? None of them question him, because he keeps all of them ‘watered’ down……he comes and goes as he needs them…..NOT as they need him.
The S has 3 groups he hangs around with, RICH people….and networks off of them….they are all vehicles to the next rich person……..Rich = smart to him……
Old high school people….he was never accepted fully as he wanted, so this is his target drug sales….he can protray to himself that he is finally popular…..because he has the drugs!!!
And young people…..easily manipulated and guided to believe what a great – cool dude he is…..and everyone wants HIS life.
GOD….if they only knew the truth……
This is the ‘watered’ down deal…..no one knows All of him…..it’s only when you live with him, work with him, are in an intimate relationship do you see all…….and even then we can keep our blinders on……..
Your comment “And when pitted against one, if they can’t find a weakness to exploit or a way to discombobulate us, they are just screwed”….
One of the S#2 posessions I seized was hi computer…..I ‘glanced’ at it last night…..one day I will print out a letter and post he wrote about custody issues with his ex……it was classical reading it……CLASSIC attack of everyone involved….from the Guardian Ad L, to the nursery teacher, mom and her family……why they are not worthy persons to breath the air we all share and how he gave them all a chance….the spins, personal attacks etc….NONE with any docuemtnations backing his statements up…..all emotional-personal attacks…..this was what he did to me in court….stating I was trying to cash 12 checks he wrote me fulfiliing the contract in advance, but I tried to cash them at the bank all in one day….yelling and screaming in the lobby of the bank……and this was why there was not enough funding.
I simply said to the judge…..your honor, I was given 2 checks…one for 100. and one for 4K…..the first three visits to the bank the 100.00 check bounced. I finally was able to cash the 100. check a week later and never could cash the 4K check due to insufficient funding.
It’s NOISE…..the blah, blahs, just noise….but we get caught up and start participating in their muddying of waters by defending …..then everyone is confused and tunes BOTH parties out.
We need to stick to the facts….and it’s hard being a survivor of a S……..we live on the defense…..
WELL FOLKS…..IT”S TIME TO TAKE THE OFFENSIVE APPROACH…..and turn the tables!
Kathleen, you are a true inspiration to me and I love your writings…..and you havn’t heard the last of me yet girl……I’m working on what I need to be and at some point you’ll be the first to see it!
🙂
Thanks for the encouragement.
EB
No doubt huh……I plan on finding it in the next few weeks……I’m in a holding pattern….this is when I let myself lead……if that makes any sense…..
I’ve got my plan B….and I am stocking up….and waiting for the call from the S’s friend who claims to be mine….weird!
But I ‘get it’……HA!
So……….
I think
I plot
I plan
I listen
I recon
I wait
and I act when I am led…….
Always works….and if not…..then it wasn’t meant to be….no worries….
EB, I love your post. Riveting.
You’re right we must be aware but we have nothing to fear. We see right thru them.
In truth, there are sociopaths out there everywhere.
I have a revised estimation based on my research and personal experience: 50%.
yep. hate to break it to everyone but the neural diversity is growing.
My P-mother who I often discuss this with, said it before I did. But that figure was already in my mind.
The only thing keeping them in check is the law – and each other.
Dear Kathy and Skylar. Thank you so much for sharing your conversation. It was such a relief and inspiring moment for me reading it. The 16 points, so wonderful.
When Kathy said:
“It is the times when I’ve encountered someone in way that has absolutely nothing to do with me. When I’ve simply observed them as a separate being who is delightfully different, and has nothing I particularly want or fear, but is just so real that my sense of the world changes in their presence. Because I realize that there at least two of us. Two real souls traveling the world, with all the intelligence and life of the soul and survival instinct and memories of a lifetime to share with no reason except the pleasure of each other’s company.”
That is what makes me feel priviledged working with my cancer patients. They are also in a vulnerable phase and open up, and I can assure them and guide their souls onto safer grounds by telling them what will await them. These are very precious moments for me, and rare too, and they keep me enjoying my work despite the N and S and P infesting my place more and more.
Funny though everybody is now making fun at the S/N/P-nurse who did silent treatment with me for a year. Some weeks ago she took the computer mouse with her in her holidays so her substitute nurse could not work properly at first (she did not hand the password either to her). And she stopped the delivery of the TGIF-cake from the bakery for the two weeks she was in holidays. Lots of giggling was going on when the nurse’s aid was sharing the “hot news from dragon’s palace”, especially because of the mouse which got swiftly replaced by the IT-people of the hospital, so was the password….
As for not getting responses to posts: I take it as a learning point when I do not get responses for my posts and start having a “neglected feeling” in my stomach, as any blog is an offer and one can’t force the others to respond. I take the blog as release of personal stuff in cyberspace so I do not “own” it anymore. And everybody is free to take notice or let it float by.
I remember that my parents and the sister were playing “Where is Libelle?”, when I was 4 or 5 years old, looking under the table, looking in the drawer saying “Oh I can’t find her” in a sad voice, and I was desperately jumping around them shouting “here I am”, but they seemed not to notice me, and had lots of fun!
Lots of strange things surface at the moment: when the parents “forgot” us in front of the front door while shopping or going to golf for hours, and the neighbors next door had already prepared beds for the night! I also remember that I was watching the film “The sixth sense” with Bruce Willis and I could not find out what it was so horrible about that film, it was meant to be a horror film but it seemed not horrible at all to me. The clue was that the main characters were all dead, and nobody talked to them.
My colleague I watched the film with years ago found out in the middle but would not tell me when I asked her. (She is a N as well I think now, I went NC with her years ago because I thought she was toxic, my very first deliberate NC!!)
This week I had a bad flash back of all the above memories as the “saintly colleague” who does silent treatment with me and who is the supply of the N boss, showed some future plans to the assistant (I should know of them too as I am in her rank as well) but she carefully hid them from me but made sure I noticed the showing. I felt the odd feeling in the stomach again.
She also managed slowly but surely that all the other doctors of our “team” ignore me and leave the room when I enter, and hardly say “Good morning” at all. It is just plain awful.
5 more months to go!!!! Unfortunately my future partner met one of my “team” on a conference and mentioned me “having found a new working place”. The partner told me that he did not mention that we were teaming up, and said that this very nice doctor (sic!!) spoke very friendly about me and had mentioned that I was not “feeling well there any more” (I could puke). Anyway, I am now curious when they approach me as I did not disclose my plans to them (they will get my resignment soon). Next friday we will meet to discuss conferences and holidays for next year. The bad point is that my paper is still not submitted, and I am stuck. I feel cold and sad and insecure and tired. Like in the gospel “some times I feel like a motherless child”.
I heard from a patient that she was told to take life like a book. Turn a page every day. Start a new page every day. I will try as well (maybe the stuff we tell the people makes sense to me too??)
Last week I did a lecture on “breaking bad news”, and one of my colleagues in fact was questioning the stages of Kubler Ross. I was speechless!
Thanks for letting me vent, it is awfully long too.
I’ve read more than half of the comments to this thread and will continue reading them. But first, I would like to share a bit with you lovely folks.
I no longer spend as much time as I once did on the unhealthy, destructive dynamics created by PDIs. Madly researching and reading many valid, reliable sources, soaking up knowledge like a dry sponge. Seeking always seeking answers, clarification, affirmation that my childhood and adulthood painful experiences had meaning, that they weren’t just random occurences. That there must be a reason for why and how.
And I hit the lottery so many times with written material by caring and concerned authors and of course, the jackpot-LoveFraud.
Okay, so once I began my diligent reading, educating myself I was forced to also look inside myself to visualize how I allowed myself to be victim. Yes, I was accountable for allowing parasites, abusive people in my life. Thing is, as we all realize now, I had 0 fundamental self protective skills to fight these creeps. To distance myself from them and their hateful, cruel behaviors and actions.
Boundaries? What are those? Had no idea a few years ago. I do now and they are non-negotiable. Absolutes. They are mine, I possess and impliment them daily because they are sensible, rational and thoroughly logical for my continued serene, ordered, calm and peaceful life.
I not only want a serene life, lacking in any chaos or drama. I need it to maintain my sanity. To help nurture spiritual, intellectual, and psychological growth and health. And if I must discard all the dead weight (my former mental state as well as parasites) then I must do it.
As Donna and Stiles so eloquently wrote, it is necessary to rebuild ourselves from the ashes of our past heartbreaks. Like the Phoenix. Emerging from the ashes in a display of fiery beauty and renewal. That’s us. All of us folks on LF and in the world.
It takes determination, patience, time, and a solid belief that you are a valuable human being. That you most certainly matter in the grand scheme of the universe. I don’t doubt this about myself for one damn minute.
I am here. I exist in this very place and time. I live and breathe and love and care and hurt. I am a true human being, with all my foibles, my quirks and all my virtuous qualities that make me what and who I am.
As all of you are. Please spend time dispelling those myths, from Donna’s list for yourselves. They aren’t real. They are false, the opposite of true. Who you really are as people is impossible to encapsulate in a few words.
You are all so very complex, so interesting and vibrant that I strive to gleam as much as I can by reading your heartfelt, sincere and genuine words.
Don’t go changing to try please anyone. Do it for yourself.
Hello everyone,’
I just watched this documentary about a psychopath. Worth a watch.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/i-psychopath/
Notagain,
Thanks for the link. It does reinforce what we know about narcissists/psychopaths and their ways. It seems that no one is immune from Dr. Sam’s abuse as he even attacked the successful filmmaker in this documentary for no apparent reason. And that is their modus operandi in general to throw you off guard- to doubt yourself in their magnificent presence. Going back to the article, I don’t think I had many voids to fill, but was still taken by a very manipulative and yes visually beautiful person. I was led to believe that I was special to this person, and she made me feel like I was the only one in her world. I don’t fall easily, and I have a wonderful wife and fulfilling family life. But this persons agenda was to take me and try to kill my soul. My revenge is to let them know that I am like the lyrics from a Baby’s song- back on my feet again.
Kathleen Hawk Says:
“You and I grew up with two problems. One was a tolerance for fear and brutality (because we had to become used to it). The other was an inflated sense of our own responsibility and power to change things for other people. We literally became the sacrificial lambs of the family. And in going out into the world, our ideas of our own limits were completely warped. We thought we could live through too much. We didn’t recognize impossible situations and dangerous people. In our understanding of survival skills, we had no training to recognize that respectful relationships, self-love, peace of mind, decent pay for work, and other things that were simply out of the question in our family homes were actually necessary. Not luxuries but necessary.
I am the early stage of recognition and recovery and mostly I am just doing my best to get through each day, taking care of myself once again so I can heal physically, so that I can then move onto spiritually and psychologically healing. It’s an enormous amount of STUFF to deal with all at once. My mind just wants to make sense of it all because the betrayal and PERSONAL NEAR DESTRUCTION of my soul is just….well it’s the SUDDENNESS of it hitting me full force has left me in a state of shell shock.
I try to get through each day, but there are constant triggers and intruding flashback memories all over teh place and I HATE it! I want him to STOP invading my conscioiusness. I feel like he’s done an invasion of the body snatchers on me 🙁
I get alot of validation from the LF blog and it’s reassuring to read about others further along in the path of recovery. But then at the same time I also feel like it’s all too much for me a lot of the time.
If I were only dealing with all of my physical problems, it would be one thing. But with all the mental sh*t on top, it’s doing me in.
I feel like I need to exorcise him. And I know that the way to do that is to concentrate on me. The problem with that is it’s a spiral. When I start looking at myself and taking care of myself and healing, it BRINGS him up!!!! It’s all so entwined 🙁
He’s a SOUL THEIF!!!! And I WANT MY FREAKEN SOUL BACK!!!!
What void did he fill? He BECAME (portrayed) my soul mate from teh moment he met me. I was an open book on a dating site. He read the whole book and then with his Oscar worthy morphing skill had me.
What do I believe about myself?
That I am unlovable.
That I will always be alone.
That if I am good, do good, if I am understanding, helpful, ethical, take the high road, and be EVEN MORE UNDERSTANDING (he’s tormented and feels guilty..I should CUT HIM SOME MORE SLACK)….that all of my “goodness” will magically make everything right and better (even the most deceitful, conniving, pathological lying, self- absorbed, greedy, hateful, unloving, rejecting, abusive, spiteful, petty, TWISTED, MEAN and VIOLENT BASTARD).
Oh…and another thing I’m learning about myself. I HATE it when anyone gives undo attention to my looks or physical attractive, concentrates on it too much, gives too many compliments on my looks, stares at me, flirts with me immediately based on my looks when they don’t even know me.
I know have issues with that. I now know he figured taht about me (when I even didnt’t know how much of an issue it was for me…until now) and he exploited that BIG TIME. THe prick.
I’m sure he took sick spath glee in alternating between overdone superficial flattery of how “beautiful” I am (which bugged the shit out of me) followed by sadistically cold rejection for another woman, then begging me back again and shoving it in my face….repeatedly.
Finding the meaning in the Betrayal of a sociopath……
I know that I will learn to be stronger, to not trust (as much as I WANT to be trusting), to delve deeper, to protect myself.
I am still SCARED, like he keeps popping up in my mind today…not good thoughts, just that the image of him in front of me, blank like a cardboard cutout.
Even though I THINK he is far away, I am still SPOOKED.
Is it the red flags all waving in my face taunting me?
Am I embarrassed? I feel scared thats how I feel…
Its been nine months since he left and THANK GOD!
He changed me. Am I isolating because I am afraid to meet up and not trust ANYONE? Am I isolating because I am scared?
I took 2 1/2 months off work when it hit me! I couldn’t be running around trying to save lives and make people feel better when I had been hit with…I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT THE H***IT WAS….evilness…insidious
Right now…work HELPS me…should I go to work 7 days a week? 13 hours as day??? Maybe…
I cannot wait until I get all the good feelings that I deserve from all this he has caused.
Do I think I am crazy…Hell yeah! He made me that way!
I still think it is me, that I am the bad one…I know it is the brainwashing. He stole ME. What is he trying to do???
What is he doing with all these souls…trying to fill himself up? What is up?
No one has the right to mess with us…to feel they are right, entitled, almighty, manipulate, put down, use, dismiss/charm my loved ones,…how scary how evil, how controlling.
TAKE SOME DEEEEP BREATHS……….
I am going to take a bath now and then go put my face to the sun….
I think you said it when you said he stole me – or tried to.
I loved Kathleen Hawk’s piece on returning to wounded innocence where she talks about how we allow them to be what we needed in exchange for letting them have what they need from us-
Somehow, I get that.
And I get recovering from the dreamy forgiveness of the whole thing when my therapist asks me whether I’ve done an AIDS test yet – like that isn’t a BIG DEAL?
The reality of his lying and cheating and his history of it kind of wipe away the dreamy love story like a brillo pad cleans a pan. It is a grimy, slimy work he made.
The stupid part seems to me that he first tried to steal what was given and then thought he was smarter than all for having done so.
Its such a headbanger I don’t think there is any sense to be made. I can’t make it a sad love story. Somedays, I think it all could be a nomination for DARWIN AWARD!
All I know is sun is warm, bath is good, chocolate is a food group and LF has been a really good place to be.