Last Sunday, the Asbury Park Press, a New Jersey newspaper, published a front-page article about the career of Edward J. Devine. On August 1, 2008, Devine was sentenced to five years in prison for bouncing checks and deceiving nonprofit and educational institutions.
The bulk of the story was not about those crimes, but what Devine did to the women in his life. Claiming to be the heir to a Sonoma wine company and a trucking mogul, he left one wife, Donna Devine, and her mother $400,000 in debt. He wiped out the inheritance of another wife, Deborah Weiss. He forced his first wife, Carol Ceralli, into bankruptcy.
It’s a story that many of us know, and some of us have experienced.
But what is significant to me about this story is that it was brought to my attention by my brother. He saw the story in the Asbury Park Press and sent me the link.
That same day, my husband suggested that I look into Mike Wooten, the trooper at the root of Sarah Palin’s Troopergate. My husband was the one who read the newspaper articles about Wooten. “The cop looks like one of your guys,” he said.
I investigated further, and my husband was right. In my opinion, Wooten is a sociopath.
So last Sunday, two members of my family alerted me to stories about sociopaths. They’ve learned what these predators look like.
I consider this a sign of success. I’ve been talking about sociopaths, and they’ve been listening.
Criticized by my family
It wasn’t always this way. When I was in the midst of the trauma, trying to pick up the pieces of my shattered life after learning that James Montgomery, my ex-husband, was a con artist, I could not talk to my family about it.
They criticized me for not listening to them when they expressed doubts. (This was after I was married to Montgomery—no one said anything before I married him.) Then they criticized my recovery methods. I quickly learned that it was best not to tell them what I was doing.
Eventually, however, I worked my way out of the hole. I also began to develop Lovefraud. But it took time. Lovefraud launched more than five years after my divorce.
Now, when I tell my family that more than 1,000 people who have written to Lovefraud with stories of being targeted by sociopaths, they seem to realize that I wasn’t as stupid as they thought I was. Anyone can be a victim.
Talking about the sociopath
So how do you talk to people about your experience with sociopaths? I think two preliminary steps are necessary:
First, you need to educate yourself about sociopaths. (The fact that there is so much confusion about what to call them—sociopaths, psychopaths, antisocials—doesn’t help.) Learn that millions of people have the disorder. Although there are symptoms and warning signs, these people are experts at hiding them. Treatment options are few to none. Everyone will run across a sociopath at some point, and if they don’t recognize the predator, they will become a target.
Second, you need to be able to discuss sociopaths as an educator, not as a victim. This means you probably are not going to be able to do it while the experience is raw. If you’re still coping with the pain, horror, self-doubt and grief, your friends and family will interpret your words as self-pity, and will come back with the refrain, “Get over it, already.” During the early phases of your recovery, it’s probably best to express yourself with the understanding community here at Lovefraud, rather than with your personal acquaintances who, however well-meaning, simply don’t understand.
But eventually, if you give yourself time and permission to heal, you will. And then, with your understanding of this destructive personality disorder, and your personal experience, you’ll be able to talk knowledgably about sociopaths to your friends and family. They’ll begin to understand, and start to recognize sociopaths on their own.
When you’re ready, you’ll be able to shine a light on these predators, and perhaps deny them a few victims. And that will lend some meaning of your awful experience.
HWS,
Nah, not that one, but one similar to that that ran a few years before that in syndication. Later he got out of the animal and movie business and went into another industry with something he invented and made a bloody fortune out of (he ended up on the Forbes 400 list in the 1980s, but he had made and lost several fortunes over his life time in several different businesses. He died last year, June I think, I was notified by his estate that I wasn’t getting anything (BIG SUPRISE!!! NOT!) but the funny thing was, back in the days when I was really hurt by him, I thought I would get an attorney and protest his estate, but when the time actually came, I didn’t want any of his money—even if he had left me a zillion $ I would have donated it to charity and not spent a penny of it. I REALIZED I DIDN’T WANT HIS BLOOD MONEY.
He also cut out 2 of my 3 half sibs who apparently also have NC with him, he didn’t even n ame us by name in the estate, just “my other children” and that he was purposely not leaving us money “and we knew the reasons why”—but the estate had to by law notify us and send us copies of the estate and will. I haven’t seen any of them since 1967, and only talked once to the one son that I think is very much like him, the one that got “it all” (whatever amount that was, with my P bio father, though he was tremendously wealthy at one point, he may for all I know have been dead broke when he died) Wife #6 got a big chunk when they got divorced and wife #5 also did well for herself I think, wife #7 died before he did, but wives 1-5 got nothing. In fact, wife #5 had to run for her life, leaving her three children behind with him.
My mom was wife #2. Wife #1 was married when he was 16 and the marriage was annuled by his father since his father had not given permission for him to marry.
My late husband had a short partnership with him, but it didn’t last long because as usual, he tried to screw over every “partner” he had and my late husband was not one to be “afraid” of his blustering. My P-bio F was one to beat up on or threaten people he thought were weaker than him, he never stood up to anyone who would stand up to him. My husband was a very quite man, but he wasn’t one to be PUSHED or intimidated and he was not intimidated by my P-bio F and so the relationship could not last. Anyone who was a victim-mentality and/or afraid of him was fair game for him, but not people who set boundaries. One of the reasons he HATED ME WITH A PASSION (and others who stood up to him) and did everything he could to villianize us in print and verbally, was that he COULD NOT STAND anyone who was STRONG. There was a man we knew in Africa that he threatened to kill if he didn’t help him in an illegal scheme he had and the man said “Go ahead, it still won’t get you what you want.” I can ONLY IMAGINE the RAGE that P-bio F felt at coming nose to nose with another person he couldn’t threaten into compliance.
I know of two murders he committed (both out side of the US) and he claims to have murdered others, but you know he was SUCH A LIAR there is no telling if he did or not. I know he was capable of murder without remorse. He also knew that I KNEW WHERE THE BODIES WERE, so that was another thing he hated and feared me for. Personally, being hated by him puts me in GOOD COMPANY with some great people. People I admire(d) very much. My P-bio father was 80 when he died last year, but as far as I know, my one half brother is the only human being that “admired” him or wanted to emulate him, or thought he was a “great man.” He was smart, and his inventions did well, but his EGO was as large as I have ever seen on a P, and his capacity for meanness and violence as bad as they get. The only differences between him and my P-son (who never met him) is that my P-son didn’t get away with his crimes and was never financially successful enough to “buy” people and things.
somebody help with this. No contact now for 5 month’s. He had every trait of a sociopath, every trait of a BPD. It’s like they wrote the book’s about him. But I have had this guilt in my gut for 5 month’s or longer. I devalued and discarded him. I kicked him out. Numerous time’s I made him leave. I knew he was toxic. I knew he was killing me inside. I know he can’t or won’t change. But I devalued and discarded him. I called him awful names. Am I a sociopath? Why do I keep thinking it was all my fault? What could I have done to make him happy? Why do I (know) he was using me and still ask myself this?
oh henry! i hear you loud and clear.
for the last six months of my relationship with my ex s/p, i said the most horrible things i had ever said in my life. i called him an idiot, an asshole, an effin’ liar. i screamed. i ranted and raved. i told him he was a piece of shit. i stomped around. i must have looked insane.
i threw my s/p out of my apartment a dozen times, and i MEANT it. i was at the end of a rope so thin it was transluscent. i never hated any one so much. i simply could not have believed that he (or anyone on earth!) could be so callous and remorseless. no boundaries, no explanations, no apologies.
truly, significantly mindblowing.
i have thought as you have — that i abandoned him when he needed me most. that perhaps i really didn’t understand how hard everything was for him. that i was untrue to my pledge that i would love him forever, no matter what. that i would try harder and make him sooooo happy. that i would lose weight and look like i did when we met 20 YEARS AGO!
but, after being slapped down about 4 million notches, I decided that my behavior was a normal reaction to an incredibly abnormal situation. nothing more. nothing less.
we DID NOT devalue and discard them. we simply were brought to a place — regardless of the good times, the hot sex, the intense loving/hating — where we knew we had to save ourselves … a place where we finally GOT that it was not okay to be abused.
WE DIDN’T DEVALUE THEM — we simply valued ourselves a teeny tiny bit.
WE DIDN’T DISCARD THEM — they brought us to a place of realization that we were close to DEATH.
they brought us — with their mind-f#&king and shape-shifting –to the place where our very survival was truly … truly at stake. what we experienced, and accepted, was nothing less than god-given survival instinct.
we did NOTHING to them. we simply SAVED OURSELVES.
towanda!!
Dear Henry,
You are NOT a sociopath!!!
The thing that you wrote about how you “devalued and discarded” him makes me think of how my son felt and said after he divorce his x-wife after she tried to kill him while she was having the affair with the Trojan Horse P.
You did NOT “de-value” him, you simply saw that he HAS NO VALUE, and yes you did “discard” him, the way you should discard something that is toxic and noxious.
Yes, you called him awful names. In your own pain you were frantic and you acted “out of character” and you behaved poorly. FORGIVE YOURSELF HENRY. I called my mother a “senile old bat” in my anger, I felt bad for doing it and I apologized—not that she would “forgive me” and hasn’t to this day.
IT IS/WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. You cannot fix the psychopath. They do NOT WANT TO BE FIXED. They will NOT ALLOW you to fix them.
Your questions and doubts Henry are EMOTIONAL not rational and logical. When you start to feel this way, to feel guilty and accuse yourself of being “bad” to him, and “not helping” him, or not “fixing” him, say STOP!!!! to yourself, and then ask yourself, “Why is my internal toxic parent beating my internal child?” You and I were both raised by people who “guilted” us into taking the BLAME for anything that happend, for any one else’s unhappiness—-BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? It ain’t so! You are NOT to “blame” or “at fault” for others’ unhappiness and bad behavior.
You have acknowledged your own bad behavior (name calling) and have shown that you are REMORSEFUL for that. But because you did that, does’t mean that he deserved to be “valued” when he has NO value as a person, because of his bad behavior and his CHOICES. What is his value to you? To give you more pain?
He has NO REMORSE FOR CHEATING ON YOU, lying etc. do you think? You sure have no “value” to him now that you are not his “sugar daddy” providing him a house to live in etc. Do you think he didn’t “devalue” you when he cheated on you, lied to you? Which is worse, losing your temper and caling some one a name or going out and sleeping with others behind their back, bringing them to your home and presumably your bed to sleep with them.??? Think about it Henry! Who did the de-valuing? He devalued you with the way he treated you not just with words. Throwing him out was the RIGHT thing to do.
Now, BOINK! BOINK! STraighten up your thinking, brother, before I have to get the BIG skillet out! ((((hugs)))))
ox: ohhhhhhhhhhh … good one! i smiled when i realized we were both busily writing our responses to henry at exactly the same time. we were simultaneously pouring over our experiences and pulling out nuggets of wisdom. i think of us all here on LF as sages. we have graduated into some odd cadre of learned ones(!)… who have taken on sociopaths and emerged wise beyond where anyone should be expected to be wise!
lol … does that make sense?
anyway, great response. it gave me an entirely OTHER resource to draw upon. “which is worse” indeed!!! who devalued who? damn ho’s!
i feel calm and okay tonight. it is so wonderful to see glimpses of myself again.
sending my love and prayers to all …
grace
Here’s a scrap of the Bible I recall…”don’t throw your pearls to the swine…”
Gospel this week….someone acts badly confront him, ignore you get another to to witness to their crime in your presence , they ignore you,- go to Church- ignore you after that…treat em like gentiles and tax collectors…
I believe any victim of a sociopath has gone well beyond this biblical injunction…Henry you are weird : -)
but not a sociopath!!!!!!
HWS
Henry, The mere fact that you are asking yourself those guestions, worrying about them, and actually caring what the answer is is proof positive you are no sociopath.
I actually told my ex-P the last weekend we were physically together that I thought he was a psychopath. His response was a very dramatic exclamation of: ” I’m not a f***ing serial killer!” I explained to him very calmly that all psychopaths are not serial killers and all psychopaths do not kill. I then started explaining to him the traits, including lying excessively, conning others, hurting others deliberately and feeling no guilt or remorse for it, not being able to feel love, not caring about anothers welfare etc.–the whole shebang. He’s normally very talkative, but he actually listened very attentively as I explained the traits, a slightly odd expression on his face. He sat there very calmly for about 30 seconds after I finished talking, not saying a word, looked like he was actually analyzing what I said, then calmly, without even looking concerned, shrugged and said, “Maybe I AM a psychopath.” I didn’t say anything, waiting to see if he elaborated, but his next remark was that he was hungry and what did I have to eat.
Didn’t seem to bother him in the least that I thought he was a psychopath with all those traits as long as I didn’t think he was a serial killer. It was just more of a slight curiosity–hhhmn, maybe that fits look on his face, then on to the next subject like it was no big deal at all, he didn’t care. Other than the slightly odd look on his face when I was explaining the traits, he showed no emotional reaction to it at all. He never mentioned it again, nor did I.
Although I can never know for sure, I believe that odd look on his face was that he was recognizing himself in what I was saying as I went thru the traits, then mulling it over and analyzing it and thinking yeah that seemed to fit him and thikning so that is the name–psychopath–that explains him. But as for him caring, it was like no big deal, who cares, other than the curiosity factor it seemed to have for him–otherwise his reaction was like I told him it was raining.
Dear LIG,
Yep, we become “sages”! LOL and boy is the “sage school” a TOUGH COURSE OF STUDY! LOL I sure as heck don’t want to repeat any ore of the classes there. I failed them the first tie or two through the University of Hard Knocks, and I finally “graduated” and I even have an “advanced degree” a PhD—PILED HIGHER AND DEEPER! HA HA
Your list of your “sins” and the terrible things you said and that Henry said, reminds me so MUCH OF MYSELF. Boy, did I ever get wound up and spout off at the mouth. But like you said it was a “normal” response to an abnormal situation where we were driven to the brink of destruction. WHO would not react that way? Jesus? but even St. Peter picked up a sword and cut off the ear of one of the guys who was there to take Christ away from the garden to crucify Him.
When you are in a situation where you feel threatened emotionally or physically to “fight back” is a NORMAL response. For so long I felt so BAD about how I had behaved, how I had talked to my mother, how I had actually HATED my P-son, my mother etc. But hating, saying horrible things, those are NOT ME, but yet, they BECAME my reaction to the pain I was in.
Jen, that is an interesting observation about your P being told what a P is—I think you are right, he knew you had him “nailed” and HE DIDN’T CARE. They sure don’t like being called a “killer” if they aren’t or anything else they didn’t actually DO. Boy do they take offense if you acuse them of something they actually didn’t do. LOL Of course they ALSO take offense if you tell them about something they DID do, but it’s not quite the same amount of outrage if they actually aRE guilty. LOL
Thank you Thank you Thank you — I needed that boink on the head Oxy! I am a weird emotional guy, not alway’s rational. Thank you Lostingrief – girl you spelled it out!!!! Thanks Jen2008 so much wisdom from you all. I needed some reinforcement’s. with time I will accept what I know – and I hope someday I can bake that cake made out of rainbow’s and smile’s and we will all eat and be happy hugs peace thank you
Henry, darling! We are ALL “Weird” as far as that goes, we HAVE EMOTIONS and are able to love and we have a conscience, and sometimes our conscience works overtime and we are “guilty” about things we should not be. I have struggled with the “guilt” of saying bad things when Iwas angry and frustrated, and doing things that are out of character for me, and forgiving myself has been a difficult thing for me to do. It is much easier for me to forgive someone else’s faults than it is MY OWN faults. I keep beating myself up for not being “perfect” no matter what the situation or the provocation.
In THEORY we should always keep our heads no matter what is happening around us, but you know, there are just sometimes that is asking “too much” to keep your head no matter what. I have tired all my life to do that, but sometimes I have failed.
Other than Jesus himself, I don’t think there is a human in the world that CAN’T be “provoked” into anger and bad behavior if the provocation is big enough. Forgiving ourselves for “being human” is an okay thing to do. Of course we need to realize that what we did was not good (or was wrong) and accept that, and do our best not to repeat that kind of behavior, but to expect ourselves to be “perfect” under ALL circumstances is NOT OK. I’m human, you’re human. WE do things we shouldn’t, we say things we shouldn’t, but we need to forgive ourselves for not being perfect….and for expecting ourselves to be perfect.