Editor’s note: The following article refers to spiritual concepts. Please read Lovefraud’s statement on Spiritual Recovery.
Quite a few people have been sending Lovefraud information lately on the religious and spiritual aspects of an experience with a sociopath. Here’s another link suggested by a Lovefraud reader.
5 Indicators of an evil and wicked heart, on Crosswalk.com.
The article is directed towards Christian counselors, to help them discern between people who have a truly evil heart, rather than an ordinary sinful heart. Read the article, and you’ll see that those with evil hearts are clearly sociopaths.
The author also identifies one of the key reasons why we don’t “see” evil: “We find it so difficult to believe that evil individuals actually exist.”
The Universe Wants You To Be With Your Psychopath – Is It True?
When I ripped the mask off of my psychopathic husband, after 25 years of marriage, I discovered all the secrets; hidden families with multiple children, numerous mistresses, who I confronted to let them know he was married. Some knew some didn’t. The entire marriage and our family with our children, was all a lie. I learned all of this suddenly and it sent me into psychological meltdown. Counselors were unaware of psychopaths, and very little help. The Christian counselors espoused forgiveness and grace for him and our family. The others sat and listened and looked at me like I was from the moon as I cried uncontrollably at times, and tried to explain gas lighting, triangulation, crazy making and all the tricks he used from the spath playbook. Knowledge of disordered people will help tremendously with those seeking help after an encounter with these aliens, and will help to diagnose PTSD caused by living with a psychopath.
annjoy
I was a slow learner but once I understood, there was no going back. I tried to explain to people, they just can’t understand. They have no point of reference. My ex is a “nice guy” that I should have “treated like a King” and had I done so, he would have been faithful. I was the one blamed for his many other women. I tried to tell people about his triangulation, that he pitted people against each other and that they wouldn’t even know it happened, that they didn’t have to actually be participating for it to happen. They didn’t get it. I even have a girlfriend who moved from the east coast to the deep south to escape a sociopath boyfriend and SHE even says that everyone has good inside them. Seems SHE didn’t learn inspite of her boyfriend.
The only time it matters to people is AFTERwards, when they are trying to understand why they feel like they were on receiving end of a Mack Truck. It’s very hard to convince people to be wary of these types because unless you’ve had experience, it’s just near impossible to wrap our heads around just how devious and sneakly and manipulative that a sociopath is. And how, it truly is NOT our fault. We got blindsided, even while staring into the face of EVIL.
But support and knowledge after the fact is SO valuable, and sure does cut down on that self blame step of recovery.
Besides learning how to recover, another BIG lesson was learning that no one cared and to keep my nightmare between me and whoever was my specific counselor and guidance (plus GOD of course). Pastors don’t care. Friends and family don’t care. They all just wanted me to shut up and “get on with life” and learn to “get along” with my ex whom they all still liked. People don’t realize how easy it is for them to maintain their mask with people who don’t want to see him for what he is/does. The TRUTH is too messy for them and to be avoided.
I can totally relate about others not caring, and being told to get on with my life. It was a total mind warp. Thank God, and believe me it was only God, I am on the other side of this nightmare now. I still have limited contact as we share an adult disabled, (autistic) son. That is another story altogether. We lost our oldest son two years ago, and if you have never been connected to a psychopath in loss or grieving, they are just as callous as in any situation.People see what they want to see as it relates to warning others, and I have come to find out that some of the “others, were physically abused as well as psychologically abused. I was never hit or beaten because I would not allow him to cross that line. Somehow, they still love him, even after being told and his lies exposed. I, too have long stopped telling my story to anyone, and can honestly say I am on the other side. My hope and prayer is that knowledge of their existence will someday be taught in schools, at the workplace, and with counselors so that they will be exposed and society as a whole will at least know what they are dealing with when looking in the face of evil.
Hello, annjoy and all others on this thread! I joined a form of Christian religion because I believed my soon-to-be mother-in-law was some sort of saint. Actually, I believe it was my ex’s parents who were to blame for his warped personality. The mother (and her strange religion, which did not allow drinking alcohol or smoking, and expected everyone to be “loving” and “positive” at all times, including all 5 of her children) and her husband (an alcoholic and smoker who was verbally angry, belittling,cynical, caustic, and abusive to my ex- as a child and when he became a adult) were. to say the least a strange couple. I am certain my ex’s sister was a psychopath, as she was a con artist and swindler, who had a business and charged up tens of thousands of dollars in merchandise and loans, including mortgaging her children’s inheritance/property, which actually belonged to her husband’s family. As for my ex- he was a very charming liar, manipulator, gas lighter, and very selfish. He wanted my property, I believe, and when he caused me to lose it (almost convinced by his sister to give it to her!), he became a lot lesson demonstrative towards me. Well, to make this shorter, we finally went to a Baptist minister-counselor. This man blamed me for all the problems! This was the beginning of the end of our marriage, and we divorced. The divorce was probably a good thing, but the Baptist guy was sure not a help at all. Subsequently, I moved to a larger city and found a superb mental health clinic, and gradually got over my rage.
For once and for all…let me get the truth out. I really need to say this.The relationship with a sociopath is all fake with them feeling no remorse, no sympathy for the victim and no conscience for anything they have done. Believe me, I was with a sociopath for 37 years. He was a great faker. A very skilled manipulator, incredible liar, thief and deceiver who appeared shy and innocent of any wrong doing. Just wanted to be left alone and live his little simple, sneaking around, druggy life. He needed me as his victim to help him get what he wanted; money and prostitutes…I think they go hand in hand. For at least 2 years he left 2-3 days a week for 10 hours or so each time saying he was going to work and didn’t even have a job, which he lead me to believe he did. …left me to run the business by myself which was very busy and hectic, while he laid in a Detroit motel with his favorite child prostitute; real name Michelle Nelson, going to Belle Isle, gambling casinos, out to eat, the show, strip clubs with her, shopping, giving her hundreds and thousands of dollars and whatever he did when not actively having sex. He used me for money and to have his children to make him appear normal. Since 2007 my business has cleared $880,000 and at beginning of divorce in 2012 when I caught him, he said we have no money when I asked about it; he controlled all the money. Oh yes, he thought he would get everything…expected me to die from breast cancer, which I had a second diagnosis in 2007 and had to have more chemo and radiation….so he would have it all and then he would be the poor widower and I or his children or family would never find out about the $3-$400,000 he stole from the marital assets to build a house with a Jamaican prostitute “Trish; real name Sophia Wint who lived in a 10×10 shack, that he met 10 years ago and bought property and funded her to have built this big house in Negril, Jamaica by sending money grams of $990 a couple times a week so he doesn’t have to give his name as the sender if under $1000…from party stores and CVS stores all in the area he frequents. I have my suspicions he also has a child with this “then” 20 something woman who has a little girl around age 5 now. Nor would I find out about the ‘beginning sexual relationship and affair’ with “then” a 15 or maybe16 year old Redford/Detroit prostitute he has been paying for sexual favors for many years; bought her a car, supported her to live at a motel on his way home, rented her a house in Warren, bought her furniture, etc all with my/our money. He is a criminal pedophile pervert who should be in prison for having sex with a minor. He also thought, what stupidity, that she would go to Nursing school and the both of them would take over my business when I died….nor would I find out that for 20 years that I know of he has been a regular big spender at strip clubs in Melvindale and Lincoln Park paying for sexual favors at a seedy motel you can check into for 3hrs. Oh yes, he will deny…deny…deny all of it. That means it’s not true? Believe me it is 100% true. He is just so good at deceit that no one would ever even believe he is capable of such vile thieving and lying. Now our whole family is destroyed and does he care?..no, not one bit of remorse or guilt does he feel. Hasn’t even talked to his daughter in over 5 years and makes no effort to do so. But he sure has been in contact with his favorite prostitutes. Get ready Katz family…someday you’ll be saying “Guess who’s coming to dinner” only if he has the guts to expose his past second life and let you meet his “sure to come” child from this old soon to be 70 year old horny geezer’s stupid actions with his young prostitute in Detroit/Warren. These whores will get pregnant to have a golden egg that will support them. And he is just sex addicted enough to let that happen. I guess if she is in her 20’s and he’s near 70 and he keeps getting his Levitra prescription, that should work for the rest of his sex addicted life. He has only had one other victim/friend that he used and abused like he did me, a male friend in his entire life that has known him for 40 years…this was ever his only other so called friend. He actually hates people unless he can have sex with them or get money from them; a sociopath. Well he did this friend very badly also by stealing from him, lying and saying horrible things about him to others and this person has said to me..”We will never encounter another person as horrible as he is in our lifetime”. So heads up Nanci..this person did not break the man code because he told me about the Jamaica house after the divorce, because he thought it was horrible that I was expected to give him another $30,000 after all he knew..he saved me from having to give this horrible brother of yours another $30,000 for the equity in the marital home, after he got $50,000 from me on the day of the divorce in 2013 before I knew about the Jamaica house. You say it wasn’t in his name..you bet it wasn’t..part of his lies, but why did he write off the additional $30,000 I owed him after the divorce and after I found out about this house if the house in Jamaica wasn’t his? Because he knew it was and I threatened him with taking him back to court to be charged with fraudulent concealment. And you were in on the whole thing. You carried $10,000 cash down to Jamaica at least once and maybe 2 times to give to this prostitute per his friend…you know exactly who..his only male friend who can’t stand him now. He was sending money grams to this whore for years…every week, thousands of dollars of my money and you took money to Jamaica to give to this prostitute so don’t say I should be arrested for extortion…you are sick and as evil as he is if you think that. Keep feeding and enabling this monster. You know how horrible my life was with this control freak idiot. Past drug busts (3), huge attorney fees, loosing his license as a pharmacist and his addiction where he smokes 10 to 20 joints a day..now I know he also is a pathological liar, a sex addict and a thief which are common of a true sociopath. Our family was forced to live in my mother’s basement 14 years due to his drug busts and him going to prison in the 90’s and had to rent our home out for many years until summer of 2010, when he had another drug bust, but at the same time we had moved back into our home because my business made living in our home financially possible then. I assumed we had a lot of money saved by then. Also, he never one time ever bought me or the children a card or a gift for birthdays, holidays…nothing…ever. He never uttered the words “I love you” to me or the children…EVER. Never hugged us or kissed us…EVER. He treated my now deceased mother horribly. Never spoke to her, snuck around to avoid ever running into her when we lived in her basement…after we moved back to our home he occasionally would drop food off, that I prepared by just sneaking into her house and laying it on the kitchen counter, sneaking out and coming around the block back home and telling me to call her and let her know the food was on the counter. Now she was 89 years old, blind, using a walker and on oxygen. Never did he see if she was even alive in her bedroom, if she needed anything or just to say hello…never. Hurriedly snuck in and out, laying the plate of food on the kitchen counter. And my mother did a lot for him, but she grew to dislike him when she saw the way he was and how he treated me and the kids, yet she always treated him well. Yet he would spend much free time and thousands of dollars on the whores. And if any of you think as a woman, I got a good deal with this divorce..NOT. He demanded alimony or I had to agree to continue letting him work with me and pay him. I got the home after paying him half of the equity in our home and he got half of ownership/interest of my business domain name and website for the business…and the Jamaican house which I didn’t find out about until 8 months after the divorce and all the money that he claimed was gone. What did I get? 1/2 of our home..that is it. Imagine this creep wanting alimony after all he stole and all the vile crap he did to our family and then wanted another $30,000. I have put on 3 pictures below in comments that go with this story…enjoy. Now you must think there is 2 sides to this story..well there isn’t. I was a loving, loyal, devoted wife that always made the best of his trouble. I always loved him and defended him and treated him very well, cooked daily for him, kept a clean home and never bitched or badgered him…never. Now all of you may ask how do I know he is a sociopath? That word gets thrown around loosely…. well I went to a psychologist for 7 months to help me deal with this shock, heartbreak and the end of my marriage of 27 years. He would dwell on my x and asked many questions about his behavior. At the end of 7 months he said “I don’t know your x but from what you have told me he is definitely a sociopath.”
You are a true survivor, and I am so sorry that you and your children went through the horrible things this man did to your family. I have often wondered if the spath would continue his cheating, crazy making ways. He is now 57 years old, but looking at your post and your ex is 70 now, even age doesn’t change or slow down the evil. Stay strong, our children are what is most important and those who really love us. I knew all your references as I am also from Michigan. God bless.
Thank you for your comment. No, he is not 70 yet..he will be 64 in January. I said he will ‘soon to be 70’ because that’s coming before he knows it. Yes, even age doesn’t change or slow down evil.
Evil has no absolutely no qualms about destroying life. Even if that life is their own young (not yet legal adults) children. Evil tells their own children lies, confusing them just to hurt others, in the process they ARE AWARE THAT WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS HURTING THEIR CHILD, yet they continue because they are so focused on revenge and power. Then when Evil has screwed the children up so bad, that they are struggling in their life, evil tells the targeted parent that the children are unbalanced and need counseling because of what a POS their other parent is. Evil tells the children how sorry she is that their dad is such a piece of garbage, and how he has picked his “new family” over them, and how he doesn’t love them and that he doesn’t want them around anymore.
When dad has fought like hell to see his children but he has to go thru the mother (evil) to talk to them. Since evil doesn’t allow him to see his kids or talk with them, she had the upper hand to tell them – “no dad hasn’t called, he said he was going to Vegas with your new step mother”
Thank the Lord that the oldest child insisted on a cell phone at the age of 13 and her dad was finally able to call her and her brother and make plans to pick them up. Between that time damage was done by evil. And the dad had to show his children he did love them. And NOT ONCE did he ever bad mouth Evil, he did not tell the kids the truth about their mom, because he felt they didn’t need to know the truth. They would figure it out on their own eventually… And they have..
In my experience with sociopaths, they cannot be medicated or cured through therapy, they can only be cured by a miracle. This short video is a great example of the only hope sociopaths and their victims have:
https://youtu.be/3tSQdG2umIQ
I don’t tell anyone that my ex is a sociopath. Or, the things he said to me, the way he treated me, or all the things he’s done. There is no way to explain any of it without it sounding ridiculous and making me sound like a crazy person(which he tells people). On the one hand, it’s very difficult. Ultimately, though, I know what he is. I know all the secrets. I survived him, and that is enough.
I feel the same way too teepee1124. It’s difficult because I have a child with the exS and even though I was lucky enough to get him out of our lives, he’ll always be there in the background. People are always going to ask where my child’s father is, what happened, etc. My child is going to ask at different points through their life. I still don’t have an answer that would make people understand. I tell my child their father is “sick” and it makes him unsafe to be around. I still don’t know how I’ll answer the questions or explain to anyone what happened with this person. I still don’t completely understand it.
I’m so glad that there is someone in the Christian community who is advising that the church has more than sinners saved by grace, but also wolves in sheep’s clothing. The worst of the disordered types use religion like a battering ram to beat down your boundaries and impose their will in the name of the Lord. *shudder*
I totally agree that wicked men come to church to lure kind women! The emotionally and verbally abusive ex-father in law I wrote about told his son, “Find a woman who’s got the faith.” Have you heard about the organization ARMS, Abuse Recovery Ministry and Services? It has chapters in only a few of the states in the U.S. Maybe your state has a chapter. Anyway, I’ve taken their course. The have about four missions: 1. To help women from abusive homes (any religion or none) recover and protect themselves from abuse and ongoing abuse; 2. Help educate men who have been abusive; 3. There are also groups for women who have been abusive; 4. To educate Christian ministers, giving them true Biblical verses about how to treat people. They deny things like “spare the rod and spoil the child” and that women should “obey.” The handouts are the very BEST I have ever seen on the facts and recovery/protection ideas, and I’ve been to several different abuse recovery groups.
I have been trying to figure out how I am going to bridge the psychology and the spirituality of a sociopath. What I have come up with so far is that sociopaths once had a conscience, but they suffocated their conscience due to their lust for depravity and therefore it no longer exists. I do believe that with God anything is possible, but we shouldn’t hold our breaths on this one. Holding sociopaths to their actions and holding them accountable is how we can survive.
I tried the forgiveness and grace thing with my then husband for 10 years and he just took advantage of it and turned it against me saying that I should continue to forgive him when he was obviously intentionally cheating on me amongst other things. I had to overcome that, because there is something that is called accountability and boundaries. Those two things are part of relationships just as much as forgiveness and grace. We have to be balanced with our hearts, and to exercise only grace and forgiveness in a relationship without accountability and boundaries is just looking for deep, dark emotional and psychological distress.
Peace in Chaos.
Sociopaths are on the devil side. My ex when asked if he believe in God said “something like that”…well after I crawled away from him (what I called crawling out of hell) I realized what he meant…he was the devil and knew it…and he worshiped the devil, not in a spiritually way like going to church or in devilish ways like you see in the movies but he accepted the fact that his brain was wired differently and relished in the fact that he could con people out of what ever he wanted & worse control peoples minds with manipulative & lying words. He was masterful at it.
To rewind a bit when I first meet him I knew something was off with him…my first thought meeting him through a mutual friends was he was a “tornado”, the next time I meet him I thought he was “crazy”. My gut instinct was correct about him…first impressions are lasting impressions like the old saying goes.
The first time I was a lone in his home with him I told him he needed to get a cross for his house and put it right here on the wall….I have NEVER said that to anyone…nor am I very religious…I know now he was standing right in front of me when I said that he needed to hang a cross right there on the wall…HE was the one that my gut instinct says that he was PURE EVIL…another gut reaction that was correct but I ignored.
There is NO “bridge the psychology and the spirituality of a sociopath”…Sociopaths are EVIL and their victims are good people.
When dealing with a sociopath…it’s about science and the fact that scientifically their brains are literally wired differently then a normal person. There is not religious or spiritual aspect to this reality…it’s simply FACT that a sociopath brain has a brain defect exactly like a child being born with a heart defect.
The reason why victims become “distressed’ and break down literally is simply because our adrenal glands can only handle so much stress before they become fatigue and then our blood pressure, blood sugar, cortisol & adrenaline levels and over 50 hormones become unbalanced sending our bodies & minds into chaos (PTSD).
You can not simple remove the sociopath from your life…you must also balance your body (specifically your adrenal glands) which can take 6 months to two years to have then running correctly again. the adrenal glands are a huge deal and over looked by most doctors as the root health issue of their patients. 80% of adults will endure adrenal fatigue sometime in their adult hood. And one of the top issues with adrenal fatigue is a toxic relationship.
If you want to understand a sociopaths & how the victims end up broken down you must look at science and how the body/brain is functioning to understand what is really going on in this dangerous world.
see sites like DrLam. com, Adrenalfatigue. org, Mialundin. com (read her book) with regards to the victims emotional break down from all the stress from the sociopath.
As for the sociopath himself do a search on “sociopaths brains”, “sociopaths brain wiring” etc to learn the scientific proof that their brains are different and this is why they are different then others in society & the fact that their brains do not work in the emotional region of their brain.
See Dr Amen’s books on brain, google “Dr Amen you tube” to watch his lectures on the brain and see amen clinic. com for more info.
Understanding your gut…see The book “Gift of fear” by Gavin Debecker & google “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” to watch their videos on the subject of gut reaction/gut instinct.
Jan7
Your post starts with a great example of how sociopaths answer a direct question in that vague way that leave their victim having to interpret what they mean.
Asked if he believed in God, answered “something like that”.
Nowadays, that vague kind of response triggers my red flag. My ex is a master of it. That’s how he gets people to assume a conclusion based on what THEY think, not on HIS behavior.
Also liked your sharing of the cross. Your subconscious knew even as your conscious self was trying to make sense of a sociopath.
Your first sentence here I feel hits the nail right on the head! I believe this is a form of lying because it’s a half truth. This summed up a lot of my marriage with the sociopath.
Very interesting the information about PTSD. I have had people suggest that PTSD only is a result of combat or more of a tangible thing. However I am beginning to learn that PTSD is also mental, emotional and relational.
Hello, Peace in Chaos, what you write here is SO like I was in two of my marriages. I forgave, forgave, forgave. Believed in the man’s “good side,” but these two KNEW what was right, presented this side of themselves to new acquaintances, including me of course, then CHANGED into rogues. The first one drove all my girlfriends away with his crude language, cursing as regular speech, and “know it all” attitude. The second one was more subtle, moonlight me. The second one loved animals, and was a vegetarian/vegan. Anyway, although I think I’ve only read the Religion Page in the newspaper one time, that ONE time showed me something by a minister, who wrote, “You can forgive someone, but that does not mean you have to keep that person in your life.” Wow! A lightbulb went off in my head. Wish I’d’ve known that philosophy years and years before. I had learned forgiveness, without the boundaries. Since then, after I’d divorced the second man I’m discussing here, life has been a lot better for me. And believe it or not, I actually have a boyfriend who does not abuse me, is honest about how he feels and sets boundaries with my own behavior, and accepts my own boundaries, and what I say about my boundaries with him, too.
Peace in Chaos
Jan7 gave a good response.
You start your post with an assumption: that sociopaths are beings wired like us. They aren’t. The bible gives many examples of evil people and what we are to do. (recognize the demonic being and “get thee behind me” is one I’ve used.) The “with God anything is possible” is a truism that gets misused. Which is typical with a sociopath, they know how to twist our core beliefs so that we submit to that nightmare which GOD never intended for us.
Hi, Jan, Wow is this ever true: “they know how to twist our core beliefs.” One of my sociopaths (yes, there are many that I knew!) actually tried to do this with a four year old boy, who was my loved neighbor boy. The boy said he was 4. The sociopath said, “Do you really have to think being a certain age is important?” something like that. Wow! I called him on that, asking my child friend if M. was making him uncomfortable/bothering him. The boy said, you know how kids are — “Sort…..of…..” Likely, he didn’t want to say YES, in front of grownups. I was just appalled that M. would say such a thing to a tiny child. But, as I wrote earlier, this man M. was raised by a mother who told him nothing he saw/thought/did was “real.” I think this warped his personality for life. But, I have to disagree that some people are born evil. Babies are not evil by nature. And I’ve only known one five year old — one of my Kindergarten students back when — who had what I’d call a criminal mind. His dad was in prison, and they boy had sort of blank eyes, and a strange personality, and use to try to steal toys from the classroom. I had to frisk him every day before he went home.
Editor’s note: The following article refers to spiritual concepts. Please read Lovefraud’s statement on Spiritual Recovery.
This is the editors note that goes to this above post.
Thanks!
Peace In Chaos, welcome. Your struggle to bridge the psychology and spirituality is something that resonates with me. This can be a tricky one and has required me to be very patient and very cautious. I can tell you from experience that having studied the scriptures for decades I had built up a great love for the things that I had been fortunate enough to learn. These things were in my heart. There are tons of examples throughout the scriptures of lying, ruthless, cunning individuals, many who claimed to be something they weren’t. We were given those examples to protect us and told that we will have these fake people to deal with. Look at the first century example of the Pharasees. These men were brilliant. They knew not only the law given through Moses but all the little additional rules and regulations that had been added that were distorting the true intention. They consistently twisted, distorted, and perverted something that was clear and pure. Sadly I have come to know modern day examples. When I finally figured out these men who I was happy to humbly defer to as my so called shepherds had no integrity except to promote their own agenda or another’s who they now served, I had to leave. By then I had been gently smeared there anyway.
The conscience can be viewed as a moral guide or compass. The scriptures indicate that by choosing to do things that we understand are considered wrong or bad, that we can sear or as you say suffocate their conscience. You could get in all sorts of debates over the nuances here. I’d rather not. What I have consistently found is that these spathy types know and understand clearly. They are opportunistic hypocrites who can stand and inspire a room of hundreds or thousands with a wonderful message that they will hold you to account on but thrust aside when it suites them. The gift of free will has accountability for our actions built in. I like your comments about judging by their actions, imposing healthy boundaries, and being balanced.
well said!