By | October 27, 2013 64 Comments

LETTER TO LOVEFRAUD: I’m at a loss about what to do (Part 2)

Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader who posts as “WalkingInLight.” Read Part 1 here.

Towards the end of our separation a man rang me from S’s church to see if he could help S and I get back together. He told me he had spoken to S and was now speaking to me to see if he could help. I told him I still loved S but really believed he did not love me. This man said he would talk to S the next time he saw him.

Now I have to say that I had not been going to this man’s church for a couple of years because the teaching had taken a ”˜strange turn,’ so I was at a different church to my husband. Even though my husband agreed about the teaching, he said he couldn’t leave that church because he respected the leadership and felt loyal to them. As soon as this man told me he was going to speak to S the next time he saw him I KNEW that S would leave that church (so that conversation wouldn’t happen) — and that is exactly what happened. Though S always tells people he left due to the teaching.

I could handle it

But once again, I started to forget all the unpleasantness, and wanted him back again (this sounds mad I know). But i felt that after not knowing what was going on in my marriage for the first 12 years, now that I did know I could handle it. I also found out he was planning to move back to his home country (which he denied) and I knew if he went the girls wouldn’t see him again.

He had up to that point made sure to see them loads and never messed them around, in fact, his relationship with them had never been so good. I went to see him and said I wanted to give it another try. He said he would do it for the sake of the children, but he was moving back home (as I knew) and we would be living there.

He also said I had to cut all ties with my friend. This I agreed to first of all, then said no I wouldn’t do that. He said I shouldn’t go back on my word and tried to bully me in to agreeing.

We spent that Christmas together in the house I was in with the kids. It was odd. He was on his phone texting most of the time, even though he’d said he loved me and wanted the marriage to work, not just for the sake of the children.

Moved to his country

We finally moved. My parents were devastated, because they used to see us all the time, but I was convinced they would come and live with us at some point. We moved to a VERY remote place, for a while I liked it. But after 2 years I realized I didn’t. I was so homesick. I asked him to go back. I begged him to go back. He said, “You can go back if you want.” Even though his family were an hour and half away we very rarely saw them.

His behaviour got a bit better over the years. He seemed less angry in general, but would still react if he felt “threatened” (asking something of him, etc.). He very rarely punched or kicked anything. He stopped smoking drugs. He became more huggy. But the cycle was still there.

He was still saying I was mental and a liar. I BEGGED him to stop saying these things and I really wanted him to admit I was not mental, even though he’d said it to me so much I used to ask my friend, “Am I mental?” She used to say to me, “It worries me that you have to even ask that.” I realized now his games and his countering, denying etc., but it still hurt.

Wanted a son

He wanted a son. I wasn’t sure, because I was 38 years old. He put a picture on my screen saver of a pregnant tummy with a little foot sticking out. I thought it was quiet sweet. I did get pregnant. Then I remembered that he’d always had this fascination with the Bible story of Jacob (I think) who put his sheep in front of the speckled sticks to make them spotty (I think that’s right). He believed in this principle. I asked him if he’d done that with the picture of the pregnant tummy on my screen saver, he just laughed.

We had a son. I had to stay in hospital for a week in the city where his parents lived. He barely came to see me for an hour a day, and because this hospital was so far from our home hardly anyone came to see me. He told me he was looking after the girls at his parents. I later found out he was just out visiting friends.

Awhile after he went to a school reunion, when I saw photos of him on facebook with his old friends I had to do a double take. He was really laughing, relaxed and looked totally different. He looked like a stranger to me; he never looked like that around us.


I was really worried about having a son because I didn’t want him to be like S. I knew S would influence him. S had always had this love of boxing, but I had said if we have a son I don’t want him to do boxing. So one night when our son was about 3, S says he is going to help out at the boxing club. I spoke to him and reminded him how I felt about it. He said it wouldn’t affect our son M.

But I knew he would influence him and before you know it M would be boxing. He would make M want to do it. I was so upset. This didn’t just affect me now; this affected my children.

I very calmly tried to talk to him about it, but he used all the usual tricks of diversion, twisting to tie me up in knots. I kept thinking of different ways of saying what I felt, hoping he would understand me this time. But I’d fallen back into the trap of thinking we were having a relationship built on mutuality, where people want to understand each other and sort the problem out. I eventually reminded him of the verse about not doing something you want to do if you know someone else will be upset by it, because then you are not “acting in love.” I really thought he would see my point, but no, he accused me of “manipulating scripture.” I eventually went to see our pastor about the boxing situation. I also told him about our marriage.


Around this time we had more counseling. I totally opened up about how I really felt in our relationship. I told him I felt totally rejected. He said he would do anything to make me feel secure. A few weeks later we went on a family outing with his parents and brother, sister-in-law and kids. Ten minutes into the walk I turn around from looking at something with the children and he was nowhere to be seen. He’d walked off with his parent.

I spent the rest of the time (at the zoo) walking round without him.

When we met up at the end he said he couldn’t find me. It was a circular walk, which we’d done many times before, but all of a sudden it was too complicated for him to work out where I was. When we got back I told him I couldn’t believe he’d done that after I told him how rejected I felt. He refused to understand or apologize for how that made me feel. I could not move passed this, not after all I’d told him. I needed him to acknowledge it.

I kept trying a couple of times a week to say it in a different way, so the the penny would finally drop and he would see my pain. This went on for 6 months. I was the lowest I’ve ever felt; I wanted to die. After 6 months he said if it means so much to you I’m sorry.


More recently he was checking out a beautiful young lady waiting by the school gates with us, really staring at her, right in front of me! I was devastated and embarrassed; we live in a very small community and people must have seen him doing it. I challenged him about it when we got home and of course he denied it. I went to our pastor again. When I got back S said to me that he DIDN’T look at THAT woman but he has been looking at a lot of women and it’s become a habit and he’d been watching a lot of porn as well.

If you met my husband you would think, “What a lovely, intelligent, helpful guy.” He is involved in a lot of community work and has run for local council, representing his political party. In fact, he took a personality test the other day and told us it came back as “amiable,” which he even laughed at. My eldest daughter (who sees what is going on) said, “well you are ”¦ to other people.”

No trust

I am going to finish now. Just to say, I thought about a year ago, if I just accepted this as “It is what it is,” and know that he reacts in this way in certain situations (most of which I go out of my way to avoid), I can get on with it.

But there is no intimacy. There is no trust, so many times he uses things I have told him in my weaker moments against me. In times when everything is “ok,” which are quite a lot of the time, I feel nothing for him. We don’t really have a relationship. It is not that I haven’t forgiven him; it is that I can’t trust him.

I know everything may look o.k. on the surface, but that surface only needs to be “scratched” and all this nastiness will spew out.

Something came up the other day. He abused me in front of his brother. (He always does this in front of his family, unless I remind him not to do it before we go. Then he will say “I never do that,” but at least he wont do it.) I spoke to him about it and he said all the usual things to me: “ I am spoilt,” “never take responsibility for my actions,” “never apologize,” “I’m a liar,” etc.

I said to him, you called me a “fat bitch” on Monday and you only just said sorry for that now and it’s Sunday night. And that’s because I said I wanted to talk things over with you. I think if anyone has a lack of responsibility that would be you. I thought to myself, this person DOES NOT KNOW ME AT ALL, AND DOES NOT WANT TO GET TO KNOW ME.

Doesn’t want to change

He wants to stay in his perception of who I am so he doesn’t have to change his behaviour. I have tried in the past to live my own life while living with him but it is very depressing and lonely (more lonely than being alone) and so I fall back into a “relationship” with him.

I am truly at a loss about what to do. I really don’t want to upset my kids, my youngest two would be very upset if the family were to break up. I also don’t know if I’m strong enough to do it either, or whether I’m too old at 44 to start again. Any thought on this would be very helpful.

I apologize again for the length and I thank you if you have managed to read all this.




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First of all I am so sorry for your many years of pain. I went through 20+ years of it also with 2 different men. Thankfully, we had no children so I was able to finally cut ties to both of them though the second still likes to rear his ugly head at our church from time to time just to make me and my new husband uncomfortable. I am no psychologist but the patterns you describe sound spot on when dealing with a sociopath. They use the ones who they deem to be “fronts” for them, who enable them to live a live that LOOKS completely different from what it really is, to give them “power”. There may be more people who “see” him for who he is than you know that just don’t say anything. There certainly were with mine. He did have a lot totally fooled also. Both of them did. Only you can decide whether you need to leave but I can tell you this is not a nurturing environment for you or for your children. In my opinion if at all possible I would get out now. Be by yourself for a bit and learn what a healthy relationship looks like. I married an even worse man on a rebound because he seemed so charming and attentive and crazy about me at first. It was actually as bad or worse as my first one. I am with a kind, considerate, wonderful godly man now. Sociopaths often use the church to obtain power or as a front. A good wife makes them LOOK good but they care almost nothing about you except what they can gain. When I finally left mine, in fact, the very night I sneaked away, he sent me an email with a quickie divorce website. He cared NOTHING about me. I was a good wife who made him look good and nothing more. We are nothing more than “objects” to true sociopaths. Not saying yours is, like I said I am no psychologist but he certainly seems to have the traits and fit the “profile”. Please don’t waste any more of your life on this man. You are still young. I left my second one when I was 51 years old. I have the rest of my life and I am going to spend it with someone who knows how to give back and really truly loves me.


Hi Hon, I just wanted you to know that the way you are feeling is sadly normal when dealing with a sociopath…one min you want to run fast away from him, the next min the sociopath has manipulated you to stay…your mind is so twisted up by the sociopath you don’t know which way is up and which way is down, you dont know if you should stay or go. We have all been in the same place you are now….follow your gut hon it will never fail you ever…the mear fact that you found tells me that your gut is screaming that you need to get out of this abusive relationship asap.

A sociopath in the beginning of a relationship (and throughout) will say things that will leave you speechless….leave you wondering what just happened…the begin of your relationship when he said that “we should take a break” there is no doubt that he had another women hooked in his web of lies and manipulation and that is why he left you but most importantly to keep you in his wings just incase the other relationship did not work out.There is no doubt he was messing with your mind, this is what sociopaths do. In a normal relationship you jaw does not drop nor are you left speechless but this is indicative of a sociopath.

In the beginning of a relationship a sociopath will keep pushing your emotional boundaries…the victim of a sociopath will keep ignoring all the red flags even when those red flags become a marching band of red flags…why? because the sociopath always will come up with a plausible reason why he did such and such thing….but your gut is telling you that his behavior is not normal or acceptable social behavior…once again listen to your gut.

Know that all sociopaths use mind control, brain washing, trance, hypnosis, gas lighting abuse, isolation, intimidation, install fear and phobias etc to control their victims and this is why you can not simply walk away from him…it’s really crazy what they do to control their victims and once you open your mind up from his psychological games you will find that he is down right scary to be around! You must break free of his mind control to finally leave your abusive relationship, to do this you need professional help from a therapist and by reading everything on Lovefraud and other sites/books on sociopaths.

I would suggest the following asap:

1) watch all of Donna Anderson’s “lovefraud” videos posted at the top of this site…over and over and get a notebook out and start listing what you husband has done during the relationship as it relates to the videos…Donna has done a amazing job at relying exactly what all sociopaths do to manipulate us into a relationship with them and to keep us in the relationship in her videos. When you have any doubt about leaving again watch the videos and read everything on her site to open your mind up from your husbands mind control.

2) buy/read Donna’s book(s) and also some other books posted on her site such as Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft, Women who love psychopaths by Sandra Brown (her site is , Freedom of mind by Steven Hassan (his book is a must read). Why read books = to open your mind to learn YES you are in a emotional, mental, most likely physical and finical abusive relationship.

3) contact your national domestic abuse center (just google), in the USA its 800-799-SAFE to talk with a free counselor and also to get local abuse center numbers. GO to your local abuse center asap without your abuser knowing, they will help you with free counseling, women group meetings (these will help open your mind and also to learn that your abuser is doing exactly what all abusers do, these were a life saver for me) and most importantly the center will help you with an “EXIT PLAN” out of this abusive relationship.

4) Ask your local domestic abuse center for an outside counselor who specialize in domestic abuse and go also…if you are in the USA you can also contact Sandra Brown of she has a counseling center/retreat and has specialized in Domestic abuse victims for over 25 years. and/or Steven Hassan of he also specializes in domestic abuse and cult relationships also for over 25 years (both cult leaders and domestic abusers are sociopaths). Both Sandra and Steven maybe able to help you find therapist in your country if you are outside the USA just email them. Why go to outside counseling along with counseling at the domestic abuse center…the outside counselor will provide more info regarding your abuser meaning they will talk bluntly about sociopaths where the center will not. Both Steven and Sandra do phone consultation so you dont have to go to their actual office. Steven Hassan’s site is, go to his site and in the right hand top corner read his “bite model” this is how abusers mind control their victims.

5) Start creating an “EXIT PLAN” out of your abusive relationship….have friends/family help you with this along with your local abuse center and outside counselor. You can also go to your countries national domestic abuse website for more info on this subject and also google “Dr Phils EXIT PLAN”. Please remember the most dangerous time for a women in a domestic abusive relationship is when she leave him…so please have a plan in place.

6) Talk to your most trusted friends and family about what is going on in your relationship now. Remember abusers isolate their victims from friends and family by occupying the victims time and/or by telling the victims that they do not like so and so and you should not hang out with them…it’s time to open up and reconnect with your friends/family…please do not feel embarrassed for being in a abusive relationship remember 1 in 4 women will end up in a abusive relationship and most likely one of your friends/family have been in one and will be able to help you.

7) check out facebook page After narcissistic abuse and One moms battle to chat with over 25, 000 women who have left/or planning on leaving their abusive relationship. Ask questions on these sites as well as vent on them too (it helps)

8) Get a doctors physical with a hormonal specialist…including blood work for vitamin deficiency, cortisol levels, and hormonal imbalance…why? Most women leaving a abusive relationship have PTSD…according to Dr Lawless author of the PTSD breakthrough the biggest issues with PTSD is adrenal fatigue…see also and (on both sites see symptoms list). Start eating a healthy diet with lots of veggies to flood you body with vitamins and minerals which have been depleted because of all the stress you have endured because of your relationship. Our adrenal glands regulate our blood pressure, blood sugar, cortisol and adrenaline levels, and over 50 hormones including all the female hormones they are a big deal…under continual stress such as a toxic abusive relationship our adrenal glands end up working over time and in return start to wreaking havoc on our minds and body causing adrenal fatigue and also sleep issues, mood swings, anxiety, depression, memory loss etc very long list…this can be healed again with a healthy diet, vitamins, minerals, hormonal balancing such as pills or cream. For me this was a major step in healing from my abusive relationship. One of the best books is by Mia Lundin…see her site her book will explain what is going on with your body/mind and give you methods to heal too.

9) KNOW that you are NOT alone hon….my abusive husband had me so mentally isolated that I felt like I could not reach out for help…but once I reached out to friends then family then the abuse center and an outside counselor, I realized that I was not alone. Keep reaching out for help hon.

10) cover your tracks to say safe….make sure you hide your journal in a safe place, that you clear your history on your computer, that you do not tell your abuser that you are talking about your relationship, that you are talking with a therapist…stay safe!!

11) google “no contact rule narcissist”..once you leave follow this rule = no contact with him, you must break the emotional bond he has over you so that you can heal.

Know that there are 7 billion people on this planet you are not alone and someday when you are healed and ready for a new relationship will find a a great guy.

I left my husband at 45 years of age…the best thing I ever did for myself was leave him I have never looked back (only wish I would have left him years earlier)…as Dr Phils always says “it’s better for kids to come from a broken home, then to live in a broken home”…your kids abusive father is not only taking a mental/physical toll on you but also on your kids…please do not stay for the “kids sake”…your kids also deserve a peaceful home filled with love & respect… if you stay with your abusive husband your kids will never experience peace.

Wishing you all the best!

(Hi Donna, I hope it is ok to post all of this info. I come to your wonderful site several times a week to read your new blogs and this post made my heart sink because I remember being so confused at what to do about my own relationship that I signed up to your site yesterday just to respond to her post…Thank you for all that you have done, your a true angel!)

I know exactly the hurt and humiliation of being in a marriage where there is no love;no intimacy and no trust.It is a nightmare.
I was losing my sanity and my health.My dignity was long gone.
I had given my husband umpteen chances to change;but you can tell when someone is making an effort to change and when someone is content with their life “as is”.

Due to cognitive dissonance,we are so confused that we think we are being “good wives”.But as Linette brought out,we’re only objects,being used for their purpose.


ps one last thing…google “oprah gavin debecker you tube” and watch oprah’s interview with gavin debecker author of “the gift of fear”….it’s one of her “life class” videos (I think she is wearing a orange sweater) it’s worth your time to remember that you must always follow your gut! take care.


WalkinginLight, that’s a long time you have been interacting with a disordered person. The fact that you posted your story on a site that educates people about sociopaths speaks volumes. I don’t have children so I will leave any advise about leaving to those with experience there. I do have some experience in dealing with people who present themselves as deeply spiritual, highly moral individuals who prove by their actions that they are the polar opposite. The person you described is a covert manipulator. He is also a liar. This is really at the core of most of your problems with him, Deception. Because sociopaths and malignant narcissists employ so much covert deceptions, manipulations, projections, spinning, gaslighting and any other crazymakiing tactics that you could even imagine we become clouded and we lose the ability to see things for what they really are. Your eyes are beginning to open. Keep reading articles here at Lovefraud. There are tons of great ones archived. We all share here when we find books or articles on other sites that have helped us. 5 years ago I married a woman I now believe is a sociopath. She stays in character very well and is well respected in the community. No one is nicer or more pleasant till you have the audacity to actually hold her accountable for her actions, to call her out on her lies or her inappropriate relationships with many of the men in our religious community. Same as yours – same as most others who challenge the godship of their spath she had to win. She had to paint me as Crazy. I too worry that I’m too old or damaged to find someone else but that’s ok because even if that is the case, living with a toxic personality is a horror that I have decided is too dangerous to my physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual well being. Hope some of this helps. Keep on Walking in Light.


Dear Walking in Light,
I suggest you simply read the Bible for your answers, if you walk in the light. In Psalm 1, we are instructed not to walk in the pathway of sinners. In the Old Testament, before the people could return to the Promised Land, they had to “put away” their unbelieving wives and husbands. Then in Matthew, Christ tells us that he came not to bring peace, but a swords, dividing son against father, etc. In Luke, He clearly says we must “hate” our family to follow Him.
The biggest mistake that I can’t undo is letting the sociopath I was married to convince me to take him back and not divorce him when I knew I should. Don’t make that same mistake.

Tea Light

Dear walking in light

Here is a very clear guide to abusive personalities in relationships by Dr Joseph Carver , you will find your husband’s abuse of you is characteristic of a ‘ cluster b’ personality disorder. People with these disorders typically lie, blame others for their abusive behaviours, and have very little or no ability to empathise. Lack of empathy makes a person dangerous as it allows them to abuse another person without regret or remorse.

As you educate yourself about your husband’s abusive personality, take care to delete your browsing history if he uses the same computer as you, and keep any of your printed information or notes on personality disorders where he won’t be able to access it.

If you decide to leave, get help in advance from your nearest women’s rights centre. Do not allow any member of the church to pressure you into staying. No responsible person of faith encourages a woman to stay with an abuser.

All the very best to you as you move forward into peace and freedom from this man’s violations of your rights.

Tea Light!
I’ve missed you so!Plz tell me what’s been going on since we last talked?!The reason I haven’t emailed you was because I wasn’t sure if you were still on the internet.You can email me at the email address you have since I changed the password,and I’ll give you my new account.

I’m not being bothered and Baby and I are happy.I think I told you I have a grandson on the way.


Here’s what you do, Love: you MAKE A MOVE! Get away from him! He’s an abuser! Save yourself, Babe! Take the children and live free.

That’s what you must do!!

Be well!!


To All who contributed here: I read two things that resonated with me. Your husband checked out a beautiful woman. And sociopaths using the church as a front while they usurp as much power as possible.
I mentioned this once before but it stays with me. I was appalled at a young woman who worked where both my husband and I worked. She embodied innocence and friendliness and everyone liked her. Then things became very ugly. I had to work closely with her and felt awful when she made ‘subtle’ comments to undermine me. Men thought I was attractive at the workplace and she knew it…she was forever trying to find out what was happening, especially with me. She admitted she was very nosy.
As time went on she altered her appearance. What I thought was a plain little thing blossomed overnight into a beauty. My husband noticed and he just became enthralled with her. Men suddenly whistled and gawked at her…it was like she jockeyed me out of position. Since I was much older I kept quiet…I suffered her put-downs and underhanded comments. I was a temp there and I knew she wanted me out of there. She spread lies and gossip. It was just awful.
The worst thing of all was when she flaunted herself in front of my husband and ate it up when he complimented her. I know he was not right to do this, especially in front of me, but he was infatuated with her. I finally told him how demeaning his behavior was to me and he truly felt bad. He apologised at home and refused to even look at her at work. She seemed puzzled by this but I took no satisfaction in it. I just felt sorry for her.
On top of it all…she was/is a Born-Again…so the comment about ‘using it as a front’ was very clear to me.
The rotten thing about being attractive is…if you cannot hold your own you end up in these scenarios where you become suspicious to everyone around you. You become tied into the web and accused even though you were the victim. Suddenly everyone is blaming you. You feel horrible and worthless.
And if you say you think you are attractive, as I did here, you come across as vain and foolish. It is a no-win situation.


Yes…send me comments if you will.

There is a lot more to come. The sociopath who invaded my life when I was only 9 years old! And the aftermath that continues to this day…


Dear WalkinginLight,

I like your username. It shows the resiliance of your spirit. The very fact that you are reaching out, is a beautiful first step in moving beyond the depravity of having a relationship with a human being who has not given one ounce of compassion or caring to you in all the years you have devoted to him.
I am deeply sorry for your pain and all you have gone through. You have come to the right place. There is a lot of kindness, compassion and “reciprocity of support” on this site, things that have apparently been completely lacking in your marriage.
“Spath’s do not change”. Ever. It is beyond their innate abilty.
Walk. No contact. Info on here to help you manage parenting issues that will arise. Support from family, friends and places like LF. Build a tool box, (prayer, info, counseling,meditation, EFT, inspirational reading ect.), to help you move beyond the pain of what you have experienced. I have read many of the articles by Kathleen Hawke, that were suggested to me when I first found LF. They were very helpful in making sense of it all. You can access them under the authors tool bar.
Know that whereever you are inside right now…there will indeed be “Light” at the end of the tunnel. May you find the hope and strengnth you need to walk away from him, and find a better life of hope and joy for you and your precious chilren.



Dear Walking,

This man is a textbook sociopath. He will never love you. He will never care for you or the children. He is not capable of listening, taking responsibility or empathizing. If you stay with him, you will have more of the same and maybe worse. I’m so sorry. It’s NEVER too late to make a change and start a new life, even after 20 years. I hope you will find the strength and support to do this.


Thank you all for the love, support and advice that you have given me. I am truly grateful.
I have been offline for a while due to computer problems and have only just seen your replies. It has so helped me that other people have experienced what I am talking about and don’t think I am crazy. It is so difficult explaining this to people who have no idea of what you are going on about.
Things have progressed somewhat since writing my story. My husband sent for the book ‘Love without Hurt’ by Dr. Stosney (on my recommendation). He said after he’d read a few pages that he realized he was the problem in our relationship and he even recognised himself as an abuser. He has never said anything like this before in our marriage.
He has said he wants to change and make our relationship good. He has asked me for a ‘second chance’. After a lot of thought, where I went back and forth, back and forth in my thinking about leaving him, I have come to the conclusion to stay (for now). I really don’t know if I believe he is able to change, or that I will even be able to BELIEVE it, if it were a reality. I just feel I have to take a chance.
Also, I just feel so weak and frightened right now. Not frightened of him physically,(but I know he will ‘fight’ me every step of the way in gaining an independent life for myself and the children), and I just don’t have the strength to do it.

Also, his ‘revelation’ and subsequent giving up of his political and community involvement to give time to our marriage, and doing the ‘bootcamp’ sections of this book, has made me think I need to see if ‘fruit’ will come from this. I feel I would be foolish to throw this away when maybe he is on the cusp of change.
Then I change my mind and think I am foolish and being manipulated. But I have to say he seems genuine. I am confused.

I have told him that I want nothing more than to be treated with respect, and that is the bottom line. I am not looking for a loving relationship from him now, only a peaceful one. We will see if this is possible.

I do not know how this will work out. I wish I was braver.
I will read all I can and educate myself all I can in being in this situation.
I will let you know how this is working out.
I hope you all understand this decision, and the quandary I am in. I thank you all again for you support.
I hope and pray I will continue to Walk in Light. x


Hi Walk in LIght…I remember being so emotionally and physically drained by my husband too…and like you that was one of the reasons why I stayed another 7 years in my abusive marriage.

Looking back it is one of my major regrets that I believed his manipulative, lying words to suck me back into the marriage for these additional years and he never did any of the things he said he would do to change his abusive ways it was all talk (we made a list of what he needed to do, he did none). It was all a con game to sucker me back into to the marriage.

Please know that the very reason you are drained and do not have the strength to leave him is because he is manipulating you to a point of utter exhaustion, your mind (a normal mind) can not keep up with a sociopaths chaos, his lies and manipulation…this is what sociopaths do to every victim, this is how they wear down their victims to control them. Follow your gut it’s telling you the truth = he is manipulating you!

When I was finally done and leaving my husband during that time, my husband literally balled, crying so hard begging me to stay over and over…it was all his manipulative game, looking back he was a masterful actor. The final time when I packed the car and left him, he still said to me on the phone “I thought we were going to work on our marriage”…nope I was done for good! (I had just found out from a counselor that he was a sociopath and that was the only thing that I needed to know that he would never ever change)

I would highly recommend that you go to individual counseling by yourself now with a counselor who is extremely knowledgeable with domestic abuse (your local abuse center may have a recommendation). They will provide tools to deal with your situation. Please DO NOT go to marriage counseling it does not work and your husband will most likely manipulate the counselor. If your husband wants to go to counseling have him pick a different counselor. If money is tight as the counselor for her “sliding scale” (meaning they will adjust the price to fit your budget)

I would also recommend that you take a look at, and (read her book) to get your strength back physically and it turn it will help you mentally. Adrenal fatigue is a big problem for women in abusive relationships causing such issues as anxiety, depression, memory loss, sleep issues etc (see sites above for symptoms list).

Last have an EXIT PLAN out of your relationship in place incase things do not change. google “Dr Phil Exit Plan”

Always Remember: (his) ACTIONS speak louder then (his) words!!

Wishing you all the best!

p.s. check out facebook pages After narcissistic abuse and One moms battle


Dear Walk,

Talk is cheap. Sociopaths can say all kinds of things, but they can’t walk the walk. If I were in your shoes, I would just keep walking. If he really wants to change, let him do it from a distance. See if he goes to therapy, stays in therapy, and actually starts changing his behaviors. My guess is that he is trying a different tactic to reel you back in. After 20 years, it’s not likely he will do a complete turnabout. I wouldn’t fall for it. I know you love him. And I know you have 20 years’ investment in this relationship. But from what you have described, this man is seriously bad news.

I believe it really is possible to start a new life in spite of 20 years with a sociopath. And to live very well. But it probably won’t be easy at first. I will keep you in my thoughts.


Thank you Jan7 and Stargazer,

I will do as you suggest Jan7 and get some counselling for myself, I know not to go to marriage counselling together because I have done it before and it has never worked – I always came off as the ‘deranged’ one. I will also look at the info on adrenal fatigue, thanks.
Stargazer, yes I agree with you about him being able to ‘walk the walk’ – I will watch and see. Thank you. x


Hi Walkinginlight, I know it is so hard to leave…took me a long time to finally get the strength & courage and mind set to leave him even though I wanted to leave everyday. The best advise I can give you is to reach out for more help, with your friends, family, counselor, hormonal specialist (adrenal fatigue issues = PTSD = caused by your husbands abuse) don’t isolate yourself, dont let your husband tell you that you should not get outside help.

The day I finally left I felt like a weight was lifted from me…it was not easy to leave also because a sociopath knows how to create a addiction with in the victims…so leaving you need to break the addiction (emotional bond) you have with him, just like a alcohol, drug, shopping, eating addiction you will have a withdraw period….this is a big part of the reason you are staying subconsciously your anxiety goes up when you are not with him but when you are (you think) your anxiety subside but it does not.


Great post by Jan7 – there is definitely an addictive element. If you had a close friend who told you her man was treating her like that, wouldn’t you be appalled and tell her to leave? It’s hard to see clearly when you’re involved because you are so addicted. There were so many parts of your story that made me cringe. But the part where he isolated you from all of your friends and family and the part where he called you a “fat bitch” stuck out in my mind the most. No one should EVER have to suffer that kind of abuse. And the isolation is one of their tools to control you. You really think someone who obviously has no respect for you whatsoever, who doesn’t even care about the well-being of his own kids, will change? I’d say the likelihood of this happening is about the same as you getting struck by lightening and winning the lotto all on the same day. Walkinginlight, once you make the decision to leave and get away from him, the fog and confusion will lift. It will not be easy but you will have your life back, and then you can have a chance at real peace and happiness.

I don’t post here a whole lot, so if you don’t hear from me again, I wish you all the very best in your life. It’s personally very satisfying for me to come here and see people on the verge of big changes reaching out for support. This site has helped change many lives. You will undoubtedly need a lot of support, but one thing I’ve noticed in my life is that once I make a decision to do something, the universe seems to rearrange itself to support my decision. This will be the case for you, too.

I can understand your feelings,but Jan7’s post described the reason for the weakness~addiction(trauma bonding)+adrenal fatigue.
I somehow survived my husband’s shenanigans long enough to raise our daughters and for them to get out on their own.Actually there’s no “somehow” about it!I didn’t do in my own strength–I did alot of praying!As I was becoming physically worn out,my spirit was becoming stronger.

We separated for 5 yrs.I never meant to go back.But due to a fluke accident and resulting panic attacks,I gave in to my husband’s pleas to get back together.He said “he’d take care of me”.Sounded good,right?!

Once the “honeymoon phase” was over,was I ever in for disappointment!Soon,he was “couldn’t” make it to the bathroom in time,wouldn’t bathe,wouldn’t shave,wouldn’t brush his teeth–he just laid in bed while I was his “nurse on 24 hr call”.Yeah.He sure took care of me.He got his revenge for the 5 yr separation!

And yet…I wouldn’t give up!I thought I was taking care of “my duty”!You know…”in sickness or health”.He sure had the “wool pulled over my eyes”!There was even a time when he had me thinking he was getting better and that after many yrs of no intimacy was ready to start again.I remember telling a friend that though things had been bad,”I just have to give him a chance!”

Things went from bad to worse.He began publicly humiliating me again,and as if that wasn’t bad enough,he isolated me.That was the ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’.After all I’d done for this man;trying to show understanding and compassion and then he repays my kindness by making me his prisoner?!!Not only was my health continuing to deteriote,but my anxiety levels were going through the roof!

I walked out on him when I was choking on my breakfast and rather than being concerned,he called me Drama Queen over and over!He gave me the strength to do what I needed to do!


Blossom4th is correct, it gets worse when they return after the honey moon stage. This article I post explains the “emotional bond” you have to break. Part of ending a relationship is your cortisol levels go up causing panic attacks (it’s actually a condition that affects everyone). Since your cortisol levels are most likely off the chart becuase of the stress you have endured the anxiety/panic attacks are greater with someone leaving a abusive staying the anxiety goes down but only for a short time then you are stressed once again.


Thank you for this link. I totally agree with the no contact. When my husband first left 9 months ago it was very difficult for me to have no contact. It took me a few months to realize that I would continue to let him abuse me through answering his insulting emails, texts and calls. When I no longer engaged in his “crazy making” he tried to put me down through messages to my 19 years old son. My son decided to cut off a contact also. It has been about 5 months now. The only way we handle things are through attorneys . I made this promise to myself that I will never talk to this evil being again. He wanted me dead, locked away or committed into a mental institution. When none of this worked out he left the family. To be honest the no contact saved my life. I imagine it is hurting his narcissistic ego to being ignored by both me and my son. He always thought he is higher than god. He is a worthless piece of garbage and does not deserve the love we had for him. This love I or we had for him died slowly over the last months and every day without him is a happy day. There is no love left today. Not even hate. He just does not exist for us anymore.


Jan7 I think you are never too old to start over again. I was put in this position, I did not have a choice. It is a very scary, frightening, fearful situation. Believe me I thought I was not able to go on for another day. Thinking back now it was like a fog I was in while I was married to him. I took his cheating, lying, betraying, manipulation, porn addiction for 20 years. Looking back now I should have put an end to this a very long time ago. But of course there was fear and my child. Today my son told me that he is glad his lying father left us and he wished it would have happened a long time ago. You are not doing your children any good by staying. Please get all your strength and get a new life for you.
I am 48 years old and got this mess thrown at me. But like I said god wanted me to have piece in my life. That is why he took him away. I would not leave him so there was no other way. I have faith that good things happen to good people. I am happy every day and that’s enough proof for me.


another one of the reasons for me not leaving, which I didn’t mention, is because I’m having panic attacks, which make me feel very frightened. The attacks make me worry how I will cope with the children and make me feel I just could not cope on my own. It just shocked me that you mentioned it!! I never connected them to living in this stressful situation, though I do believe my husband ‘played on my fears’ to induce my anxiety – I know that sounds strange, but I do believe it is what he did. I will seriously have to think about this because this is an aspect I never realized.


Your illness story made me feel very sad. I totally understood it though because my husband will always ‘get sick’ after I’ve been ill.
Thank you Stargazer and Kaya48 for your comments, I really appreciate them.
Walking in light

The Panic attacks I was having was from living alone after falling in my home and hitting my head hard.But after what my husband put me through,I began having ANXIETY attacks;totally different for me.Panic was like having your mind spinning,not knowing how to cope.Anxiety was like losing one’s breath,having “meltdowns” and fearing things were going to go dark.I knew I was losing control.I had always fought the idea of taking antidepressants to control my emotions (I’ve used them for my fibro pain).

I made an appt to see the NP I’ve seen for yrs and have alot of confidence in.It was still hard to start the conversation,but as I talked,I realized she had been waiting for this day!She told me there was no way I could force my husband to do anything;the next move was up to me…I would need to leave.

She prescribed Cymbalta for me.I’m still taking it.It works for my anxiety as well as my fibro pain.Two in one–I like that!

It turns out that my NP is on the board of the local DV shelter.And just remember,your local DV shelter is there for you…whether you need shelter(although that provision is primarily for the physically battered),help leaving and/or counsel.


Regarding panic attacks. I did experience those also while he was in my life and I feared they would worsen with his departure. To my surprise they actually stopped. Without any medication. My physician even reduced my medications for hypertension. He thinks that it was also caused by the stressful situation I was living in 24hrs a day. Of course I do get anxious at times now with being in court hearings etc. I just stopped worrying. Just don’t look at the past and show no fear. I learned that no matter what you will be ok. My calendar full of “happy” months definitely proves this (I put a happy sticker on every day with no contact to the soon to be ex). And one of my greatest pleasure is that I am not walking on eggshells anymore. I don’t care what had does, what he is up to or even if he is still alive . If took about 8 months to “readjust” my thinking. It wasn’t easy but I eventually did it. :).


Hi Walkinginlight…..all of your health issues are caused by your husbands abuse hon.

I too dismissed them during our marriage thinking they were caused by other things but since leaving and educating my self on exactly how my ex abused me, who he is and how the body stress effects you physically, mentally and emotionally, I now know that abuse goes way beyond what most think.

I became so fatigue during my marriage I could not get out of bed, test after test proved nothing but I knew I was not healthy then when I left him I had panic attacks something I had never had before (very scary) and high anxiety, I now know it was my adrenal gland not functioning correctly wreaking havoc on my body and mind. Thank goodness I had a friend who directed me to a hormonal specialist soon after leaving my husband.

Getting your health back is number one priority for you not only will you feel better but you will think clear again and be able to make good decisions about your relationship…your panic attacks will go away quickly…here is what I have learned about anxiety, depression, panic attacks, sleep issues, mood issues etc:

1) find a good hormonal specialist who will test you for cortisol levels, hormonal imbalance, vitamin deficiency, thyroid function T3 & T4 test etc.

– cortisol levels go up when we are under stress, the problem with a abusive relationship is our cortisol never get a chance to subside because we are walking on egg shells all day long around our abuser.This is a very big deal high cortisol levels are bad for the heart and other organs plus we can not think correctly because we are in a state of constant fear. When I left my husband I was lucky that a friend told me to go to a hormonal specialist where I found out that my cortisol levels were off the chart once they stabilized along with hormonal balancing (just pills or cream) my anxiety and panic attacks ended.

– hormonal imbalance, our adrenal glands regulate our blood pressure, blood sugar, cortisol levels, and over 50 hormones (all the female hormones) again under continual stress the adrenal glands end up fatigue and do not work properly and in return our blood pressure goes up, blood sugar is not regulated, our cortisol levels go up and stay there and our hormones get messed up….then what happens? it causes sleep issues, anxiety, depression, fatigue, the list goes on an on. This too can cause panic attacks, depression, anxiety, sleep issues etc.

– vitamin deficiency…stress also depletes us of vitamins and minerals especially B’s, C, D and magnesium. This is a big deal because our body needs vitamins and minerals to feed our brain and organs…if the brain does not get the right nuturence then we do not thing well, we do not make good decisions, our brains get stuck and we can not think our way out of our abusive relationship. Google “anxiety vitamin deficiency” to learn more.

– if you have both adrenal gland issues and thyroid issues according to Dr Wilson you must first heal your adrenal gland first otherwise you could damage your thyroid (see his book)

– To find a good hormonal specialist ask your friends or/and google “compounding pharmacy” with your city name (not a regular pharmacy its a specialized pharmacy) then call them for a list of doctors, pick a female doc if you can.

2) Go to and take his quiz then read everything on his site including his symptoms list.

3) go to read/watch videos/see his symptoms list

– see read up on hormonal imbalance and adrenal fatigue

– see read up on hormonal imbalance and adrenal fatigue…she has been on oprah countless times.

4) Buy mia lundin’s book “female brain gone insane” (and no you have not gone insane, she used that title to get women’s attention) in her book she talks about hormonal imbalance, adrenal fatigue, how they impact our thinking etc. She also give lots of info how to heal your body including vitamins, hormonal balancing etc…well worth your time/money. Her site is (you can get her book at

5) check out Dr Amen’s PBS “dr amen PBS” to watch it. He talks about how to have a healthy brain. He does not think that people should be on antidepressants but should try a good healthy diet and also supplements first (see his book on anxiety/depression) His site is

6) if you go on to click on “anxiety/depression” then click on the video “EMDR therapy”…this type of therapy is excellent for women coming out of abusive relationships.

7) see Dr Fuhrman PBS special on you tube…google “dr fuhrman you tube”….he has been on Dr Oz countless times they are college friends. Dr Oz follows his plan. Dr F’s book is Eat to Live (your local library may have it)….his diet floods your body with vitamins/minerals and will quickly heal your adrenal glands…try it for one month I can tell you, you will have the energy of a teenager again.

YES..your husband knows EXACTLY how to put you into a state of fear…he does this to control you and because it is fun for him (this is how sick they think). Sociopaths put people on the edge emotionally because they can manipulate the victims easily…my husband did this everyday…your husband is also most likely “gas lighting you” ….this type of psychological abuse makes a victims feel like they are going crazy but they are not the real crazy person is the abuser. *****Go to “ and do a search on their site “are you being gas lighted?”…also search the internet and for more on the subject. This type of abuse cause GREAT anxiety and stress for the victims.

On facebook page After narcissistic abuse the site creator asked the question What health issues did you have during your relationship?….guess what over 200 women listed a long listed of issues all of them listed Panic attracts, anxiety, sleep issues, memory problems, mood was shocking to see that every women in a abusive relationship ends up with health issues and the doctors have no clue about this, so women go from one doctor to another without getting the correct answer = your relationship is making you sick = adrenal gland issues!!

If you do not have a facebook page you can just google “After narcissistic abuse facebook” to read the site and also check out “one moms battle facebook”. If you want to chat on the sites I would highly recommend that you get a new email acct with a fake name then sign up for a fake name facebook page and go to the privacy settings an select “me only” and “no feed” so that you stay safe. These two sites are a good sent along with Lovefraud.

If you dont have the money for a hormonal specialist borrow the money or have a garage sale…it will be the best money besides therapy that you will ever spend on yourself!!!

You should be so proud of yourself for reaching out for help…for coming here and posting what you have thought about after reading the post here and telling us your story….this is a huge step hon when in a abusive relationship!

(you can copy then paste this to your letter section then print it out so that you can read it over and over, keep it in a hiding place)

Take care 🙂


ps google “mia lundin you tube” and watch her two videos.


Are you being gas lighted? Here is info on the subject for you:

Are You a Victim of Gaslighting Emotional Abuse?

According to author and psychoanalyst Robin Stern, Ph.D., the signs of being a victim of gaslighting emotional abuse include:2

You are constantly second-guessing yourself.

You ask yourself, “Am I too sensitive?” a dozen times a day.

You often feel confused and even crazy at work.

You’re always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend,, boss.

You can’t understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren’t happier.

You frequently make excuses for your partner’s behavior to friends and family.

You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don’t have to explain or make excuses.

You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists.

You have trouble making simple decisions.

You have the sense that you used to be a very different person – more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.

You feel hopeless and joyless.

You feel as though you can’t do anything right.

You wonder if you are a “good enough” girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter.

You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don’t have to explain or make excuses.

How are you doing? Wishing you safety and happiness.Jan7 posted alot of helpful information.I don’t advocate anything specifically,as we just have to do the best we can for our circumstances.Natural is always better for our bodies,but if you need to make quick decisions;a quick exit you don’t have a month or more to wait for your body to rebuild itself.But if you’re able to afford it later,it’s great!

As I was growing up,my siblings and I were my mom’s “little testers” of all she learned from reading the books by Adelle Davis and Linda Clark.We tasted every thing from dessicated liver to brewer’s yeast and Tiger’s Milk!Brown sugar,honey and wheat germ!

What I’m trying to say is,do what you have to do.And don’t feel bad if you can’t do what someone says is best for you.It is a lesson that took me awhile to learn.But I’m finally comfortable accepting precriptions from a medical doctor if that’s the best I can do.


Hi Blossom, I hope you know that I am not pushing her to do the things that I posted…just giving her what I learned during my healing journey so far for her to do her own research to make a educated approach for her healing.

For me, my hormonal specialist gave me progesterone pills (natural) and vitamins and minerals and within 4 days my panic attacks stopped and my anxiety was half (prior I felt like I was going to have a heart attack and could not calm down). Within two weeks my anxiety was gone with the progesterone pills and vitamins that my doctor gave me (Dr Wilson adrenal fatigue vitamins see his site). Within a month I felt like my old self. It works fast!

I am glad that I did it the natural way. Yes. if you want to do Rx then go for it but for me I am glad that my hormonal specialist gave me a different approach. Too often though we are willing to take a Rx even though we do not understand what are bodies are really doing to get our attention…anxiety, depression and panic attacks are a way for our bodies to get our attention and tell us that we need to slow down, focus on our diet, our vitamin/mineral deficiency, and to really see where the stress is coming from etc…its our body check engine light!

According to Dr Wilson ( 80% of adults will end up with adrenal fatigue sometime during their adulthood and most doctors do not look at the persons adrenal gland as the problem and there are no Rx drugs including antidepressants that do not heal the adrenal glands…

and according to Dr Oz and Dr Amen antidepressants are only a band aid and really do not work for most people this coming from two top doctors, were as vitamins/minerals/hormonal balancing/good diet heal the adrenal gland, big difference = return you to good health.

See Dr Amen’s you tube video on why you should try natural another approach first before antidepressants…he is a leading brain specialist and therapist and has conducted over 70,000 brain scans and helped all these people in his numerous clinic have a healthier life and brain function. He has written countless books on healing the body and brain including one on anxiety and depression see his site Even Dr Lawless author of “The PTSD breakthrough” says that adrenal fatigue is one of the biggest issues with PTSD (panic attacks/anxiety etc) and needs to be healed to make a full recovery, Dr Lawless is on the advisory board of the Dr Phil Show and runs a clinic in Texas specializing in PTSD and other issues.

The reason why I posted the long list was the simple fact when you are in a abusive relationship you are exhausted and can not think clearly…you need outside help to direct you to things that will help you heal, at least this is what I needed.

My heart sank reading Walkinglight’s post because I remember vividly just how she feels and I remember I needed someone to help me desperately…what I posted is just an alternative to antidepressants and it works. It is up to her to choice what she wants to do or to do nothing. I would highly recommend that you too look through the things I posted because they may help you also.

Hi Jan7,
I’m sorry if you misunderstood me.I did mention that the things you posted were good information and that natural is best.I eat much healthier than I did when with my husband.I also get the needed rest and sleep,and have so much more peace in my life!I’m able to drink good reverse osmosis water instead of tap water most of the time.But….being disabled(more than fibro)I’m unable to work,and the gov’t is cutting asst…so there is only so much one is able to do!I’ve accepted the fact that I don’t have the ability to control everything in my life….but getting the sociopath out of my life made a large positive impact!

Also,I was remembering that when I first left my husband,I was still feeling very overwhelmed and couldn’t make too many changes at once.It had to be slow improvement.Maybe it would help if I illustrate by saying we want to help a patient…and I know you want to help;I can read that in your posts. 🙂 The patient has been ill and hasn’t been able to keep any food down for a week or more.You don’t welcome them back to health by bringing in a large meal.Maybe start with soup and jello.If they’re able to keep that down,progressively feed them more so they get their strength back.Again,I’m sorry if I made you feel bad.I’m sure the information is excellent and I don’t doubt it.

There’s just a couple of things more I will say.I know our food is depleted today.But to buy supplements that are pure are very costly.That’s sad,and I believe it just takes advantage of the fact that people are more health conscious.My mother bought such supplements for years.When she died at the age of 72 yrs with a number of health ailments,my sister found a closet full of these supplements;plus the ones opened on the counter.She spent money on special water and some kind of mushroom….I can’t even remember all the natural treatments that she bought thinking they would help her live longer.At the end,she was calling everyday saying how depressed she was.She ended up on all kinds of prescription meds which horrified me and I found unbelievable knowing how health conscious she’d always been!You know what that taught me?!


Hi Blossom,

First I want to say that I am sorry for your heath issues, your current situation and your mothers health issues that she suffered. You are correct about not being able to control everything in life and getting the sociopath out of our life is a major positive life change.

I feel the same way you do about giving small bits of info to someone in a abusive relationship…I know in my abusive marriage my mind could only take small bits of info at a time because I was under so much stress. With that being said when you are helping someone over the internet I feel you have to give them all the info at once because they may not be able to come to their computer safely while in their abusive relationship and that is why at the end of my post with all the info I posted I suggest that she cut/paste/print the info out and hide it so that she could read it when she was ready to make a change.

My great grandfather was a doctor and believed in a healthy diet, supplement etc and even ran his own health hospital what we would call a advanced spa but with doctors, nurses today, the founder of Kellogg ran a large hospital the same as my grandfathers during that time to, they were quite popular. Any way he died in his 70’s but his kids all lived to their late 80’s and one of his daughters my great aunt lived healthy until three weeks before her 104th birthday when she suffered a stroke. She eat a good diet and followed her fathers advise on taking supplements since she was a kid…she took vitamin E (plus others) and let me tell you she had the most beautiful skin at a 104 she could have passed for 65 because of the vitamin E. Sadly the info did not make it down to my generation so now I think somehow my great grandfather guide me to the right doctor to get my adrenal glands healed. I think Rx meds should be the second option behind a healthy diet and vitamins/minerals if possible.

The reason why I suggested supplements to Walkinginlight is because that is what my hormonal doctor recommended specifically Dr wilson’s adrenal fatigue supplements formula (Dr Wilson is an expert on adrenal fatigue and has written a book/lectured on the subject) and also my doctor gave me progesterone cream because of my test results…once I got home from the doctors that day I researched adrenal fatigue and was shocked that I had suffered from this issues for years….I was also surprised to learn that to heal your adrenal gland you need vitamins supplements because you are vitamin deficiency and my vitamin/mineral deficiency test that my doctor took proved this fact also. So in the case of a women coming out of a abusive relationship she has a high percentage of having vitamin/mineral deficiency specifically all your B’s, C, D. Yes, you can also flood your body with vitamins/minerals with a good diet and that is why I also posted dr Fuhrman’s website and book plus his PBS special but most people would rather take supplements vs eating a diet like Dr F’s.

According to Dr Oz over 100 million US citizens have vitamin B 12 and D deficiency meaning 1 out of 3 people….B’s and D effect our thinking and have a huge impact on our adrenal glands functioning correctly…women coming out of abusive relationships are vitamin deficient from all the stress they endured.

The bottom line is anyone can look at the sites I posted or not, they can make changes or not. For me these things worked wonders so I pass them on to other women who are in or coming out of abusive relationships because I feel that we are all kindred spirits and we all need to support each other and we all need to pass along what we have learned during our journey…. Donna Anderson is a perfect mentor of this spirit, she has touched thousands of lives because she choose to pass on what she learned so that we all could have the knowledge of exactly what we endured/to avoid these evil people in the future and I am forever grateful of all that she has posted and for her books, these things made a huge positive impact on my life along with my friend who suggested I go to her hormonal specialist.

Anyways I appreciate you post and I think it is good to debate so that both sides of an issue are being address. Balance is Best!! 🙂

That’s interesting about your family!I like getting to know things like that,instead of always discussing negative things.People used to be healthier when they lived on farms and ate mostly what they produced,whether it came from the garden or from herds or flocks of animals.Even though I didn’t grow up on a farm,our diet was simple and included few processed and sugary foods.When I look at photos of us as kids,we were all skinny!We ate little meat;when my brother was old enough he hunted in the woods…that’s where our meat came from!

Although I became an epileptic at age 11,the fibromyalgia didn’t hit until after yrs of marriage to spath.There’s no doubt in my mind that the stress triggered it;made it worse.All the women in my family have it…naturally we’ve had to be tough!

I understand what you’re saying about trying to get the information to walkinginlight while she has an opportunity to see it/she can always act on it later.That makes sense.I was just thinking it might be so much to absorb she might not be able to make the decision that she needs to.But I’m sure it’ll work out!


Hi Blossom, I don’t think there was much obesity when we were kids…like you looking at old photo’s everyone was thin and we as kids played outside until dinner time burning lots of calories…my mom always had cut carrots/fresh veggies in the frig for us to snack on, even when I went to college I still snacked on carrots/veggies most of the time. Im lol because my brother was a big fisherman, still is and he would bring home his catch and cook it up for our dinner, I guess it’s in boy’s genes to hunt and provide.

Gosh you have had health problems for a long time 🙁 all of that did not help dealing with your ex’s craziness aftermath. I wish you all the best regarding your health and healing.

I agree with too much info for her, I hope she finds a good counseling and the counselor can help her sort out her mind from her abuser’s abuse. It’s just breaks my heart that so many of us have suffered by these horrible people…imagine if we were taught a class like Donna is teaching now when we were middle school/high school…lots of victims would be able to have the tools and understand to avoid these people in the first place. For me I knew from the second I met him he was bad news but he was able to quickly suck me (everyone in) into his tornado and once in their grips it’s hard to get away.

The blessing is we all have learned the truth about who they are thanks to Donna’s site and others!


Here is a list of adrenal fatigue symptoms from

Not everyone has all of the symptoms or conditions listed below. The number varies from person to person, but if you take a step back and look from afar, they collectively paint a picture of a body under threat. The higher the prevalence or intensity of the items listed below, the higher the chances that you may have Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome.

Unable to fall asleep despite being tired

Wake up in the middle of the night for no reason

Heart palpitations at night or when stressed

Low Blood pressure consistently

Low libido and lack of sex drive

Low thyroid function, often despite thyroid medications

Feeling of hypoglycemia though laboratory values are normal

*****Depression, often unresolved after anti-depressant

Endometriosis Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome

Uterine fibroids Fibrocystic

breast disease

Hair falling off for no reason

*** Irritable under stress

*** Anxiety

**** Panic attacks

*** Feeling “wired” and unable to relax

Feeling of adrenaline rushes in the body

Fogging thinking

Inability to handle stress

Waking up feeling tired in the morning after night’s sleep

Feeling tired in the afternoon between 3:00 and 5:00 pm

Inability to take in simple carbohydrate Coffee needed to get going in the morning and throughout the day Coffee, tea or energy drinks triggering adrenaline rush and adrenal crashes

Feeling tired between 9:00 and 10:00 PM, but resists going to bed

Craving for fatty food and food high in protein

Craving for salty food such as potato chips

Dry skin more than usual

Unexplained hair loss that is diffuse

Exercise helps first, but then makes fatigue worse

Chemical sensitivities to paint, fingernail polish, plastics Electromagnetic force sensitivity, including cell phone and computer monitors

Delay food sensitivity, especially to diary and gluten

Unable to get pregnant, requiring IVF Post partum

fatigue and depression

Recurrent miscarriages during first trimester

Abdominal fat accumulation for no apparent reason

Temperature intolerance, especially to heat or sunlight

Dysmenorrhea advancing to amenorrhea

Premature Menopause

Constipation for no apparent reason

Joint pain of unknown origin

Muscle mass loss

Muscle pain of unknown reason

Cold hands and feet

Premature aging skin

*** Inability to concentrate or focus

Psoriasis of no known reason

Gastritis despite normal gastroscopy

Low back pain with no history of trauma and normal examination

Dizziness for no known cause

Fructose mal-absorption

Tinnitus (ringing in the ear)

chronically Numbness and tingling in extremities bilaterally

Mouth sores

****recurrent Short of breath even though breathing is fine

Ovarian cyst Breast cancer associated with estrogen dominance

Grave’s disease Hashimoto’s thyroiditis Legs that feel heavy at times

Dark Circle under eyes that does not go away with rest

Loss of healthy facial skin tone color

****Body feel tense all over and unable to relax

Postural orthostatic tachycardia

Irritable Bowl Syndrome, with more constipation then diarrhea

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome unimproved with medicine Fibromyalgia unresolved after conventional help

Systemic Candida that gets worse when under stress Electrolyte imbalance despite normal laboratory values

Irregular Menstrual Cycle that “stops and go”

Lyme Disease but unable to fully recover after medication or intolerance to drugs

H Pylori Infection in the past and was told resolved but never feel the same since Heavy metal and mineral toxicity may mimic

Antidepressants do not heal the adrenal gland a good clean diet, vitamins/minerals and hormonal balance heal the adrenal glands.


Hi Blossom4th, thank you for asking how I am doing. I am ok, just a bit thrown about the whole anxiety revelation, lol. Trying to get my head round it and thinking how this affects my decision to stay. There are SO many hurdles to overcome to go, it seems easier to stay. Feel I need to get my head into a clear space maybe before I decide anything. Feel unable to make a decision and stick to it, without thinking I’ve made the wrong choice.

Hi Jan7, thank you for all the information, I have been looking through most of it tonight. Will make enquires into getting hormones, adrenal levels tested. Thanks again.


your welcome.


Hi Walkinginlight…on Dr Wilson’s site he post info on the exact cortisol test that you should take and a list of top labs to interprite the test. You might want to check out just to get more info but they are very very expensive so I would not recommend them.

I’ve often thought the same thing;”if only” there had been required classes,like the ones Donna teaches,back when we were school age,we would never have gone through such trauma!

But everytime I look at pictures and think back to those days,I think those were innocent times compared to these days!These are the days of knowledge of the evil that’s going on (like you said we LIVED OUTDOORS until parents were scared to let their children out of their sight…and then technology came along with games & “you name it”!)

If I hadn’t been so determined to change him,by being kind and compassionate(didn’t realize I was only feeding the shark!)I could have focused on the fact that he was aware of my medical history before we were ever married.In fact his first wife was epileptic.But that sure didn’t make him compassionate!

I know exactly how you feel.I was going through the same thing.I would tell myself “atleast I know what to expect here and I don’t have to live alone.”I’d tell myself that I “wasn’t strong enough to move again and start all over again.”Although I did walk out on him,the decision to move and start over were MADE FOR ME!He threw a hissy fit and for that our lease was terminated!No choice about the matter even though I appealed the termination,hoping to keep the apt!Friends & family surrounded me and helped me move out and to where I live now.
I LOVE where I live!Great mgmnt & maintnce,and good neighbors,and I love my apt!I’m healing and happy!But no one can make your decision for you.


This is from (found by google panic attacks adrenal fatigue)

Continuing on with our discussion on heart palpitations and panic attacks for the month of January, I wanted to talk more about adrenal fatigue, which, along with low progesterone levels and issues with thyroid function, is one of the root causes of anxiety, heart palpitations and panic attacks for women in perimenopause.

I’ve often said that adrenal fatigue is a lot like The Eagles’ song, “Hotel California.” “You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.”That’s because once the symptoms start, they set in motion an exhausting, self-perpetuating cycle that can be very difficult to interrupt.

Women suffering with adrenal fatigue are usually very stressed and overwhelmed. The stress creates more feelings of being overwhelmed, which creates more stress on the adrenal glands, which in turn creates more fatigue, and the cycle continues ad infinitum.

What is Adrenal Fatigue and How Exactly Does One “Get it?”

In a perfect world, our adrenal glands release in perfect balance and harmony, the stress hormones cortisol, adrenaline, and DHEA, in order to help us cope with the day-to-day stresses and demands of life. They also have plenty of time to recover, rejuvenate, and replenish themselves in order to come to our aid when called upon.

Unfortunately, few of us live in a perfect world, especially middle aged women whose lives are generally quite full and taxing. We have families to care for, hormonal teens to look after, perhaps even aging parents, and for some, a full time career as well. All of which can place an enormous stress and strain on our lives and our adrenal glands.

By the time perimenopause begins (which itself is a source of stress), our adrenal glands can become so overwhelmed and exhausted, they are unable to adequately meet the body’s demand for adrenaline, cortisol, and DHEA.

What Causes Heart Palpitations and Panic Attacks in Adrenal Fatigue?

Take a moment and hearken back, if you will, to the last time you swerved your automobile to avoid a collision. How did you feel? Were you shaking? Was it difficult to catch your breath? Was your mind racing? Were your muscles tense, or did you feel butterflies in your stomach?

All of the physical reactions during that moment were the result of the stress hormones adrenaline and cortisol. During perimenopause, when our bodies are under physical stress due to the hormone imbalance of progesterone and estrogen, these same stress hormones can become out of balance as well. They can be too high or too low, waxing and waning, rising and falling, and at all points in between.

As they rise and fall, surges of either one or both of them, can cause feelings of anxiousness, the jitters, and heart palpitations and panic attacks. They can even cause you to bolt awake out of a deep sleep in the dead of night.

Balancing Stress Hormones and Adrenal Support

Depending on how fatigued and depleted your adrenal glands are, adrenal support supplements might be needed in order to help you recover. In other cases, simple sleep and relaxation is all that is generally needed.

In fact, I’m of the opinion that good old fashioned sleep – and lots of it – is some of the best medicine for adrenal fatigue. At the very least, it’s a great place to start, because any diagnosis with the “fatigue” in it is just begging for sleep if you ask me!


This is excellent information, and I’m wondering if this is the same as chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia, which are also very hard to fix. When the adrenals release cortisol, the stress hormone, the body goes into fight or flight response. Aside from sleep, a nutritious diet, massage, and acupuncture are helpful. Acupuncture balances organ function and can restore balance and vitality to the body. However, the first and most important thing is to get the source of stress out of your life **aka the sociopath**.

One of the interesting treatments I learned for fibromyalgia (where the body is also in constant fight-or flight response) is to stand in an ice cold shower for 2 minutes. The purpose of this is to shock the body. The adrenalin response can peak and then resolve itself. In other words, the body has an actual stimulus to respond to. When the stimulus stops, the stress response can stop. It’s a way of tricking the body. I don’t know anyone who has actually done this, but we were taught in a massage training for fibromyalgia that it is very effective.

One of the reasons massage can be so effective is that it stimulates the parasympathetic nerves which cause relaxation. Another reason it is effective is that when we are being touched, the nerve receptors for touch temporarily block out the nerve receptors for pain. It can give the person a break in the constant stress cycle.


Hi Stargazer…yes according to Dr Wilson women are more likely to have adrenal gland issues which are causing fibromyalgia like symptoms and chronic fatigue (I think is just a new name for adrenal fatigue).

It’s interesting that you mentioned fibromyalgia because the 200 women that posted on fb pg After narcissistic abuse’s question what health issued did you have in your abusive relationship? many women listed fibromyalgia.

I think you are correct about acupuncture, messages and about getting the sociopath out of your life. As for the cold water that does not sound fun lol. Reflexology foot massages are excellent too and they really do work and have a good health benefi.

This was on Dr Wilson’s site: Adrenal Function in Fibromyalgia

The cause of fibromyalgia is unknown, but there seems to general agreement that stress is a significant precipitating factor in its development. It has been commonly referred to as a “stress-related disorder” because stress both precedes its onset and aggravates its symptoms. Some theories suggest that fibromyalgia may result from stress-induced changes in the hippocampal area of the brain; others from stress-induced disruption of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis (which affects adrenal function and cortisol production); and still others from low levels of the neurotransmitter, dopamine, caused by genetic factors and triggered by exposure to stressors, such as emotional distress, physical trauma, viral infections or inflammatory disorders. Another theory proposes that stress can affect the hypothalamus in a way that reduces sleep and the production of human growth hormone (HGH). People with fibromyalgia tend to produce inadequate levels of HGH. Cortisol, dopamine and HGH can all affect pain perception.

Fibromyalgia is a disorder characterized by lasting widespread pain and tenderness in muscles and connective tissue. It is usually accompanied by fatigue, sleep disturbances and joint stiffness, and may be primary or secondary to another underlying condition. It may also include various functional problems, such as difficulty swallowing or breathing, tingling of the skin, muscle spasms, bowel disturbances, sensitivity to light, anxiety, and brain fog.

Some of these symptoms sound similar to adrenal fatigue, and people with fibromyalgia are likely to also be experiencing some degree of adrenal fatigue.* The adrenal fatigue may either have preceded the fibromyalgia as a consequence of the precipitating stress, or develop as a result of the stress the fibromyalgia has caused.* The tip-off that there could be a low adrenal function component involved in fibromyalgia is decreased stamina and pronounced morning fatigue.* When these are present, adrenal fatigue is likely contributing to the symptom picture, no matter the cause of the illness.* Providing adequate support for healthy adrenal function during stress can be an important contributing factor in maintaining the vitality to avoid the stress-induced precipitation of fibromyalgia, and in facilitating full recovery from fibromyalgia.*

That is an interesting treatment for Fibromyalgia!I’m sure before they have the patient stand in an ice cold shower for 2 minutes,they do a physical evaluation and make sure it’s safe for the body!

My husband once just poured a GLASS of cold water on me and IT TOOK MY BREATH AWAY!!! It seemed like minutes before I could breathe normally!!! There’s NO WAY I’d try that treatment!


Here is Dr Wilson’s adrenal fatigue symptoms list from his site

Cognitive Symptoms

Poor short-term memory
Difficulty focusing
Difficulty concentrating
Trouble thinking clearly
Poor behavior/being unlike one’s self
Focusing on the negative
Racing or anxious thoughts

Emotional Symptoms

• Constant worrying
• Fearful anticipation
• Agitation and moodiness
• Restlessness
• Short temper
• Irritability, impatience
• Inability to relax
• Feeling tense and “on edge”
• Feeling overwhelmed
• Sense of loneliness and isolation

Behavioral Symptoms

• Decrease in sex drive/libido
• Eating less or more then usual
• Habitual craving for salty or sweet foods
• Sleeping too much or too little
• Neglecting responsibilities
• Avoiding contact with others
• Using alcohol, tobacco, or drugs to unwind
• Nervous habits (e.g. pacing or nail biting)
• “Overdoing it” (e.g. exercising, working)
• Using caffeine to stay going
• Becoming argumentative or combative
• Overreacting to unexpected problems

Physical / Physiological Symptoms

• Chronic fatigue
• Tense pain in head and/or back
• Stiffness and tension in muscles
• Constipation or diarrhea
• Nausea, dizziness
• Difficulty sleeping/insomnia
• Increased heart rate/chest pain
• Increase or decrease in blood pressure
• Loss or gain in weight
• High or low blood sugar
• Skin conditions (e.g. eczema, hives)
• Frequent or prolonged colds


Very interesting articles. I was surprised that my hypertension dramatically improved withy husbands departure out of my life. Not once in 20 years did I think he was the main cause of it. I feel that I still have a lot of recovery to do but I am at peace with myself and most important I forgave myself for staying too long in this misery. When he was in my life I always had this tension and uneasy feeling inside of me. Almost like a fear because I always was told I am not good enough for him, not pretty enough, not sexy and young enough. It made me nervous and sad and caused me physical symptoms like severe hypertension. I was hospitalized many times because of the risk for stroke or heart attack. The therapist told me that is exactly what my husband wanted to happen to me. He pushed me towards the edge but I escaped before it was too late. 8 months after he left I am feeling great. It’s so sad that I had to endure all kinds of medical procedures and hospital stays because of him. For this I will never forgive him because that was pure evil. After all I am the mother of his child and I meant nothing to him. Good luck to everyone. My divorce drama will continue this coming week.


I cannot believe how after almost 2 years of being free of my 2 sociopathic husbands (20 years total with 2 different ones) I am still learning and healing. I had heard the term “gaslighting” but really never knew what it was. Can I just say WOW!!!! That was exactly how it was with both of them. Also the other thing is I went through SO much depression, anxiety, extreme fatigue that I really thought I would NEVER be “normal”. I never blamed it on the unhealthy relationships because both of them convinced me that I was the “crazy” one. I was constantly being told that it was my childhood, my father leaving, my mother’s actions and so on that caused this “mental imbalance” until I believed it. It wasn’t until I was out of the situation and beyond that I began to realize THEY were the “crazy” ones. I still struggle with the memories. Does anyone else have bad dreams about those men or women who treated us that way? I have dreams where I am back with them and I am under their control again and wondering why I let myself get back with them. They are AWFUL dreams and I wake up scared and anxious feeling like I used to most of the time. Maybe it is the fact that I am still working through it. With my husband now I am constantly asking “Is that okay” or saying “I am sorry” and he looks at me like “Why would you be sorry”? He is very understanding but I don’t think anyone really knows what I went through or understands completely except you all here. I try to explain but sometimes I get the feeling that some people think I am exaggerating and trying to make it sound worse than it was, not good friends but others. I don’t even TRY to explain anymore very much. My close friends understand as best they can. I can tell you one thing. A person like that can scar you tremendously and deeply. You MUST give yourself time to heal and realize that’s ok and NORMAL.

I have had those bad dreams as if I was back with him…woke me up,I was confused,thinking “WHY?” I think it’s part of the healing process;like the brain is shuffling through all it’s files looking for clean ones to start new memories.


Linette, I think it takes more than time to heal from abusive relationships (from my experience). It helps to find a therapist/analyst who works with trauma. The course of therapy for a trauma survivor is a little different than other forms of therapy.


Oh I agree absolutely Stargazer. I didn’t mean ONLY time. I think I was in denial that I had really even suffered trauma because of years of being told that it was ME so it took a while to even reach out for help or acknowledge that I needed it! I felt if I had done something different or something more or whatever that I wouldn’t have been treated the way I had been. Not only that, the extreme denial I lived in was so REAL that it was my new “normal”. I am not explaining myself very well. I have seen a therapist and am getting much better. It is hard to find a good therapist that understands sociopathy. The first one I went to didn’t even know what it really meant!


I can relate, Linette. As a trauma survivor, I didn’t even know the signs – I just took the constant anxiety and depression to be normal. I’m glad you found a good therapist. It’s taken me a while to find a really good one, and I don’t know what I would do without him.


I also have terrible dreams where my soon to be ex is back in my life. He also was telling me for 20 years that I am “crazy”. I almost believed him and he even asked me to go and get anti depressants prescribed for my “mental illness”. Luckily my physician said that I am completely fine and he would not give me any medications. He offered to see my husband though and prescribe something for him. With my husband being a cop it was very difficult. One night when I exposed his lies and affairs he called one of his deputy friends and told him that I was trying to kill myself. What was a blatant lie. Of course in this state they “baker act ” you and send you to a mental evaluation. I was released after 2 hours because the psychiatrist said I was totally “set up” by my husband. It was a complete shock that a person who claimed to love me for 20 years would go to such an extreme to make me believe I am crazy. I am recovering now and hope to be divorced before the end of this year. I am sure the dreams will get less with time. He has new narcissistic supply now. I am glad she took my place 🙂


Hi Kaya, I have had the same type dreams 🙁

I have often wondered why during the last few years of my marriage my dreams were so vivid…I wondered if it had to do with adrenal gland issues such as high cortisol and adrenaline levels plus hormonal imbalance due to the stress..Mia lundin says yes see her video on you tube about sleep issues related to hormonal imbalance (hormones can get unbalanced do to stress). I just googled “vivid dremas physical issues” and this was posted, thought it was interesting:

Causes of Vivid Dreams
Major Life Changes
Situations that have a high psychological impact on a person can increase your chances of increased vivid dreaming. This is your body’s way of helping to manage the stress and intense feelings. Big events such as changing jobs, moving, getting pregnant, getting married or losing a loved one will frequently cause vivid dreaming. If you are not prone to this condition, think about events in your life that could be triggering these effects.

Eating spicy foods has been linked to patients developing nightmares. Eating pizza or Stilton cheeses before bed has also been shown to cause people to experience dreams that are very erratic or strange. Taking certain supplements has also been found to increase dream activity. For example, vitamin B6 has been shown to increase dream activity in those using this supplement regularly. These foods can lead to vivid dreaming, especially if paired with other vivid dreaming techniques.

Low Blood Sugar
Having low blood pressure before you go to bed can cause vivid dreaming. As the nervous system notes that your blood sugar is low it will produce adrenaline to help balance your system. High levels of adrenaline in your system will be expressed through your dreams. If you have been experiencing excessive or vivid dreams that are undesirable, try eating a light, high protein snack before bed. Do not eat foods that are hard to digest as this can lead to other health issues.

Medications Effects
Certain medications list vivid dreaming as a side effect. This is a common effect of using anti-depressants. Herbs such as chamomile and valerian are often used to increase sleep, but they can also increase your chances of experiencing vivid dreaming. Some herbs such as calea zacatechichi have been used in the ritual practice of vivid dreaming in many cultures. Taking a combination of medications and supplements may also increase your chances of developing lucid dreaming effects.

Mind Training
Mediation has been known to help individuals become more aware of their surroundings. This can increase your ability to realize you are in a dream state so that you can begin to control your dream environment. Meditation has also been shown to help people remember their dreams more effectively, making it easier to analyze dream themes and elements. Some mind training techniques have also been shown to be effective in causing a lucid dreaming state. Telling yourself that you are going to have a vivid dream before you go to bed can cause you to experience this phenomenon.

Take Control of Vivid Dreams
Change Sleep Cycle
Altering your sleep cycle can often help you increase or decrease your vivid dreaming experiences as necessary. Experimenting with falling asleep and waking up at different times as well as getting different amounts of sleep at night can help you get the dreaming experience that is right for you.

Use Techniques Consistently
It is important to remember that any techniques you attempt to use to cause vivid dreaming must be used consistently. Your body will need to get used to the effects before it will have a drastic effect on your psychological state.

Stop Side-effected Techniques
Every person’s brain chemistry is different and will react to different stimuli. Work with a variety of techniques to find the one that works best for you. Do not continue to use any techniques that are causing you physical distress or may contribute to other health concerns in your life


Thanks jan7 for this helpful article concerning sleep patterns. The last few years with him were tough and I had vivid dreams almost nightly. In some of the dreams there was always another woman. Ironically most of the dreams became true. During that time my soon to be ex was “extra” mean to me, hiding, lying and cheating every day. Sometimes he twisted my words in a way that I honestly thought I was going “crazy”. It is very interesting to read how this stress can cause those dreams. I am dealing with a nasty divorce right now. He still manipulates and controls. I am not sure if that works with my attorney though. There is no contact since 5 months. I wish I would have found this website the day he left. I would have never responded to his worthless stuff that came out of his mouth. I learned though that by me ignoring him 100 percent, I am in control now. Thanks for all the good advice.


Hi Kaya, our stories are almost the same. I was just pondering how many generations of women have suffered at the hands of these types of men. I went to marriage counseling with him and right when the first counselor knew what type of guy he really was (his mask was slipping for her to see the truth and from what I told her) he told me not to trust her and of course being so brain washed I did what he said, soon after we stopped going to her at his demand, I wish she would have told me the truth as I was so desperate for help, I had no know idea about narcissism/sociopath, I just knew he was not normal.

I equate my marriage to living in hell and divorcing him the bottom of hell. He was able to manipulate everyone in the court house…I actually saw how he easily he manipulated people during that phase, how I was manipulated into dating/marrying him when I had zero interest in him or a future with him. I saw that he could trance/hypnosis people as crazy as that sound…everyone that dealt with him would say the same thing after he did these things to them, being told by a counselor when I first left that sociopaths trance/hypnosis it was quite shocking to actually see him doing this to people, throughout my marriage I felt he was doing these things to me but I knew nothing of trance/hypnosis. Just glad I escaped, I feel sorry for all of his future victims.

As soon as I learned about the no contact rule I followed it too…I know he hated that becuase he would email me none stop with ranting emails when I left him…I stopped reading them and that help alot to with my stress level and the brain washing he had control over my mind started to slip away so that I could think on my own. The wierd thing is I knew within a min when he had emailed me, like I sensed him writting crazy.

I am glad you found this site too…huge blessing for all of us, I wish you nothing but the best dealing with your divorce and your future.


ps the twisting of words he did to you is gas lighting abuse. He was changing your prespective of what you remember…this type of abuse makes some feel they are going crazy but they are not…very scary though. My ex did this all day long.


Yes indeed our stories seem the same. We also went to arrogate counseling but he decided the counselor was a crazy b….., who had no education. Do he would not go anymore. I was also brainwashed to believe him. After he left and discarded me I went back to counseling by myself. She did confirm that he is a narcissist and never once felt sorry for the pain he caused his family. To this day he blames me for everything. What you wrote about the divorce being the bottom of hell is scary . I have no other choice but divorcibg him. I filed July 08 but finally it’s progressing now with motions after motions.


I put everything in motions but he did none of the things list even though the Judge granted the motions and forced him to follow the motions he still did not comply…for me the motions were just a waste of money/time…lawyers love cases like ours because they know that they abuser will do nothing and they will make lots of $$$ while we emotionally suffer by still having to deal with our abusers trying to control us.

I left my husband and filed for divorce but he made the divorce the bottom of hell because he did not want to let go of me despite him having three mistresses when I left him. The good news once the divorce is done life gets much better.

I think it is unethical for the counselor to wait till you go to individual counseling before they tell you the truth, just my opinion, I stayed another 6 or 7 years after our brief marriage counseling sessions because i did not have answers to his behavior, had she told me I would have immediately ended my marriage. When I left my husband he started a smear campaign with lie after lie to the point I lost all our couple friends because they believed his lies, I have read this is very common when dealing with a sociopath as they are so fearful of everyone piecing all his craziness together…someday they will too know he is a liar…hopefully sooner then later.

Have you checked out facebook page One moms battle? it is a page for women divorcing a narcissist. it’s a very good pg. If you dont have a fb pg you can still read the site just by googling “one moms battle facebook”


Kaya so sorry you are going through this. My first was a cop. I should have seen his anger while we were dating but I mistook it as “strength”. It didn’t take long to see the truth after we got married. But then I was afraid and brainwashed into thinking it was supposed to be that way. There are many good police officers but unfortunately there are some that go into it because of the power and control that comes with it. I still dream about him and I have been away from him for 13 years. The last one wasn’t a police officer but very power hungry. In his case he love-bombed and was a completely different person before we married. They are so good at what they do.


Thank you for your encouraging comments. You mentioned “strength”. I also looked at his anger as it being strength. He was 21 years active duty army before he became a cop. Do yes he was after the “being in power jobs”. When I caught him exchanging nude photos with with a young female deputy taken during their nightshifts, I was completely in shock. I first thought of a “midlife crisis” but then I realized with the help of a marriage counselor that he was and always will be a narcissist. By the way the 20 something co worker is now his new supply. He is almost 50 years old. And he wonders why his 19 year old son lost all respect for him. And yes I agree there are good, honest deputies out there. He is just a “dirty cop” who wastes tax payers money with his porn and sex addiction. Actually it is very sad someone like him is a public figure. If it wasn’t for my alimony claim in the divorce I would turn all pictures in to internal affairs and have them both fired. But now money is more important then me getting revenge. It would not benefit me in any way.


Sorry for all the spelling mistakes. I was unable to edit it . Well sorry to hear that your divorce was the bottom of hell. I am truly afraid that this where I am heading. He claims everything is his and that he is poor. I am thankful there are no minor children involved. Yes indeed the marriage counseling was a waste of time for me. He continued his affairs while in counseling . It is still unbelievable for me how a human being can have absolutely no remorse, empathy or emotions. How coldly he was able to say ” I don’t love you anymore “. I made the best choice by filing. Often I still think how could I let someone disrespect me like this? Jan 7 I appreciate all your advice about the divorce. Yes he probably will ignore all the motions, you are right. And they are expensive . He is hiding pension plans etc. so my attorney had to file them. I think his time will come when he has to own up to his evilness. He lost the love of his son already.


Hi Kaya, the good news as you get space when the divorce is final life gets better, much more calmer and peaceful..that is priceless.

your soon to be ex has lost his wife and son. He is not a happy man and that is why he keeps chasing all his addictions eventually he will be a lonely old man who will most likely have been married and divorced several times.

You did the right thing by divorcing him.

ps I did not notice sp errors…I forgot to sp check too 🙂


Thanks jan7, reading this gives me a lot of hope and strength. And you are right, he probably is not a happy man. His father did the exact same at around the same age. After numerous affairs and abusing his wife he left her with 5 children. He used the same “I don’t love you anymore .” Left her on their anniversary because she became old, sexual boring, hair too short and overweight. Ironically my husband was never able to forgive his father and cut of all contact with him about 20 years ago. When I asked him about it, he would say “how could I ever respect him again after what he did to my mother.” So now he became his own father. Someone he never wanted to be like. And yes his father is on his 4th wife now, he is physically ill, not handsome anymore and very poor. Funny how you mentioned this. I know this behavior that went on throughout many generations will stop right here . I know for a fact that my 19 year old son is nothing like them. Thanks again jan 7 . I truly believe in what you are saying 🙂

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