Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader who posts as “WalkingInLight.” Read Part 1 here.
Towards the end of our separation a man rang me from S’s church to see if he could help S and I get back together. He told me he had spoken to S and was now speaking to me to see if he could help. I told him I still loved S but really believed he did not love me. This man said he would talk to S the next time he saw him.
Now I have to say that I had not been going to this man’s church for a couple of years because the teaching had taken a ”˜strange turn,’ so I was at a different church to my husband. Even though my husband agreed about the teaching, he said he couldn’t leave that church because he respected the leadership and felt loyal to them. As soon as this man told me he was going to speak to S the next time he saw him I KNEW that S would leave that church (so that conversation wouldn’t happen) — and that is exactly what happened. Though S always tells people he left due to the teaching.
I could handle it
But once again, I started to forget all the unpleasantness, and wanted him back again (this sounds mad I know). But i felt that after not knowing what was going on in my marriage for the first 12 years, now that I did know I could handle it. I also found out he was planning to move back to his home country (which he denied) and I knew if he went the girls wouldn’t see him again.
He had up to that point made sure to see them loads and never messed them around, in fact, his relationship with them had never been so good. I went to see him and said I wanted to give it another try. He said he would do it for the sake of the children, but he was moving back home (as I knew) and we would be living there.
He also said I had to cut all ties with my friend. This I agreed to first of all, then said no I wouldn’t do that. He said I shouldn’t go back on my word and tried to bully me in to agreeing.
We spent that Christmas together in the house I was in with the kids. It was odd. He was on his phone texting most of the time, even though he’d said he loved me and wanted the marriage to work, not just for the sake of the children.
Moved to his country
We finally moved. My parents were devastated, because they used to see us all the time, but I was convinced they would come and live with us at some point. We moved to a VERY remote place, for a while I liked it. But after 2 years I realized I didn’t. I was so homesick. I asked him to go back. I begged him to go back. He said, “You can go back if you want.” Even though his family were an hour and half away we very rarely saw them.
His behaviour got a bit better over the years. He seemed less angry in general, but would still react if he felt “threatened” (asking something of him, etc.). He very rarely punched or kicked anything. He stopped smoking drugs. He became more huggy. But the cycle was still there.
He was still saying I was mental and a liar. I BEGGED him to stop saying these things and I really wanted him to admit I was not mental, even though he’d said it to me so much I used to ask my friend, “Am I mental?” She used to say to me, “It worries me that you have to even ask that.” I realized now his games and his countering, denying etc., but it still hurt.
Wanted a son
He wanted a son. I wasn’t sure, because I was 38 years old. He put a picture on my screen saver of a pregnant tummy with a little foot sticking out. I thought it was quiet sweet. I did get pregnant. Then I remembered that he’d always had this fascination with the Bible story of Jacob (I think) who put his sheep in front of the speckled sticks to make them spotty (I think that’s right). He believed in this principle. I asked him if he’d done that with the picture of the pregnant tummy on my screen saver, he just laughed.
We had a son. I had to stay in hospital for a week in the city where his parents lived. He barely came to see me for an hour a day, and because this hospital was so far from our home hardly anyone came to see me. He told me he was looking after the girls at his parents. I later found out he was just out visiting friends.
Awhile after he went to a school reunion, when I saw photos of him on facebook with his old friends I had to do a double take. He was really laughing, relaxed and looked totally different. He looked like a stranger to me; he never looked like that around us.
Boxing
I was really worried about having a son because I didn’t want him to be like S. I knew S would influence him. S had always had this love of boxing, but I had said if we have a son I don’t want him to do boxing. So one night when our son was about 3, S says he is going to help out at the boxing club. I spoke to him and reminded him how I felt about it. He said it wouldn’t affect our son M.
But I knew he would influence him and before you know it M would be boxing. He would make M want to do it. I was so upset. This didn’t just affect me now; this affected my children.
I very calmly tried to talk to him about it, but he used all the usual tricks of diversion, twisting to tie me up in knots. I kept thinking of different ways of saying what I felt, hoping he would understand me this time. But I’d fallen back into the trap of thinking we were having a relationship built on mutuality, where people want to understand each other and sort the problem out. I eventually reminded him of the verse about not doing something you want to do if you know someone else will be upset by it, because then you are not “acting in love.” I really thought he would see my point, but no, he accused me of “manipulating scripture.” I eventually went to see our pastor about the boxing situation. I also told him about our marriage.
Apology
Around this time we had more counseling. I totally opened up about how I really felt in our relationship. I told him I felt totally rejected. He said he would do anything to make me feel secure. A few weeks later we went on a family outing with his parents and brother, sister-in-law and kids. Ten minutes into the walk I turn around from looking at something with the children and he was nowhere to be seen. He’d walked off with his parent.
I spent the rest of the time (at the zoo) walking round without him.
When we met up at the end he said he couldn’t find me. It was a circular walk, which we’d done many times before, but all of a sudden it was too complicated for him to work out where I was. When we got back I told him I couldn’t believe he’d done that after I told him how rejected I felt. He refused to understand or apologize for how that made me feel. I could not move passed this, not after all I’d told him. I needed him to acknowledge it.
I kept trying a couple of times a week to say it in a different way, so the the penny would finally drop and he would see my pain. This went on for 6 months. I was the lowest I’ve ever felt; I wanted to die. After 6 months he said if it means so much to you I’m sorry.
Amiable
More recently he was checking out a beautiful young lady waiting by the school gates with us, really staring at her, right in front of me! I was devastated and embarrassed; we live in a very small community and people must have seen him doing it. I challenged him about it when we got home and of course he denied it. I went to our pastor again. When I got back S said to me that he DIDN’T look at THAT woman but he has been looking at a lot of women and it’s become a habit and he’d been watching a lot of porn as well.
If you met my husband you would think, “What a lovely, intelligent, helpful guy.” He is involved in a lot of community work and has run for local council, representing his political party. In fact, he took a personality test the other day and told us it came back as “amiable,” which he even laughed at. My eldest daughter (who sees what is going on) said, “well you are ”¦ to other people.”
No trust
I am going to finish now. Just to say, I thought about a year ago, if I just accepted this as “It is what it is,” and know that he reacts in this way in certain situations (most of which I go out of my way to avoid), I can get on with it.
But there is no intimacy. There is no trust, so many times he uses things I have told him in my weaker moments against me. In times when everything is “ok,” which are quite a lot of the time, I feel nothing for him. We don’t really have a relationship. It is not that I haven’t forgiven him; it is that I can’t trust him.
I know everything may look o.k. on the surface, but that surface only needs to be “scratched” and all this nastiness will spew out.
Something came up the other day. He abused me in front of his brother. (He always does this in front of his family, unless I remind him not to do it before we go. Then he will say “I never do that,” but at least he wont do it.) I spoke to him about it and he said all the usual things to me: “ I am spoilt,” “never take responsibility for my actions,” “never apologize,” “I’m a liar,” etc.
I said to him, you called me a “fat bitch” on Monday and you only just said sorry for that now and it’s Sunday night. And that’s because I said I wanted to talk things over with you. I think if anyone has a lack of responsibility that would be you. I thought to myself, this person DOES NOT KNOW ME AT ALL, AND DOES NOT WANT TO GET TO KNOW ME.
Doesn’t want to change
He wants to stay in his perception of who I am so he doesn’t have to change his behaviour. I have tried in the past to live my own life while living with him but it is very depressing and lonely (more lonely than being alone) and so I fall back into a “relationship” with him.
I am truly at a loss about what to do. I really don’t want to upset my kids, my youngest two would be very upset if the family were to break up. I also don’t know if I’m strong enough to do it either, or whether I’m too old at 44 to start again. Any thought on this would be very helpful.
I apologize again for the length and I thank you if you have managed to read all this.
Love,
WalkingInLight
Dear Walking,
This man is a textbook sociopath. He will never love you. He will never care for you or the children. He is not capable of listening, taking responsibility or empathizing. If you stay with him, you will have more of the same and maybe worse. I’m so sorry. It’s NEVER too late to make a change and start a new life, even after 20 years. I hope you will find the strength and support to do this.
Thank you all for the love, support and advice that you have given me. I am truly grateful.
I have been offline for a while due to computer problems and have only just seen your replies. It has so helped me that other people have experienced what I am talking about and don’t think I am crazy. It is so difficult explaining this to people who have no idea of what you are going on about.
Things have progressed somewhat since writing my story. My husband sent for the book ‘Love without Hurt’ by Dr. Stosney (on my recommendation). He said after he’d read a few pages that he realized he was the problem in our relationship and he even recognised himself as an abuser. He has never said anything like this before in our marriage.
He has said he wants to change and make our relationship good. He has asked me for a ‘second chance’. After a lot of thought, where I went back and forth, back and forth in my thinking about leaving him, I have come to the conclusion to stay (for now). I really don’t know if I believe he is able to change, or that I will even be able to BELIEVE it, if it were a reality. I just feel I have to take a chance.
Also, I just feel so weak and frightened right now. Not frightened of him physically,(but I know he will ‘fight’ me every step of the way in gaining an independent life for myself and the children), and I just don’t have the strength to do it.
Also, his ‘revelation’ and subsequent giving up of his political and community involvement to give time to our marriage, and doing the ‘bootcamp’ sections of this book, has made me think I need to see if ‘fruit’ will come from this. I feel I would be foolish to throw this away when maybe he is on the cusp of change.
Then I change my mind and think I am foolish and being manipulated. But I have to say he seems genuine. I am confused.
I have told him that I want nothing more than to be treated with respect, and that is the bottom line. I am not looking for a loving relationship from him now, only a peaceful one. We will see if this is possible.
I do not know how this will work out. I wish I was braver.
I will read all I can and educate myself all I can in being in this situation.
I will let you know how this is working out.
I hope you all understand this decision, and the quandary I am in. I thank you all again for you support.
I hope and pray I will continue to Walk in Light. x
Hi Walk in LIght…I remember being so emotionally and physically drained by my husband too…and like you that was one of the reasons why I stayed another 7 years in my abusive marriage.
Looking back it is one of my major regrets that I believed his manipulative, lying words to suck me back into the marriage for these additional years and he never did any of the things he said he would do to change his abusive ways it was all talk (we made a list of what he needed to do, he did none). It was all a con game to sucker me back into to the marriage.
Please know that the very reason you are drained and do not have the strength to leave him is because he is manipulating you to a point of utter exhaustion, your mind (a normal mind) can not keep up with a sociopaths chaos, his lies and manipulation…this is what sociopaths do to every victim, this is how they wear down their victims to control them. Follow your gut it’s telling you the truth = he is manipulating you!
When I was finally done and leaving my husband during that time, my husband literally balled, crying so hard begging me to stay over and over…it was all his manipulative game, looking back he was a masterful actor. The final time when I packed the car and left him, he still said to me on the phone “I thought we were going to work on our marriage”…nope I was done for good! (I had just found out from a counselor that he was a sociopath and that was the only thing that I needed to know that he would never ever change)
I would highly recommend that you go to individual counseling by yourself now with a counselor who is extremely knowledgeable with domestic abuse (your local abuse center may have a recommendation). They will provide tools to deal with your situation. Please DO NOT go to marriage counseling it does not work and your husband will most likely manipulate the counselor. If your husband wants to go to counseling have him pick a different counselor. If money is tight as the counselor for her “sliding scale” (meaning they will adjust the price to fit your budget)
I would also recommend that you take a look at drwilsonadrenalfatigue.org, drlam.com and mialundin.com (read her book) to get your strength back physically and it turn it will help you mentally. Adrenal fatigue is a big problem for women in abusive relationships causing such issues as anxiety, depression, memory loss, sleep issues etc (see sites above for symptoms list).
Last have an EXIT PLAN out of your relationship in place incase things do not change. google “Dr Phil Exit Plan”
Always Remember: (his) ACTIONS speak louder then (his) words!!
Wishing you all the best!
p.s. check out facebook pages After narcissistic abuse and One moms battle
Dear Walk,
Talk is cheap. Sociopaths can say all kinds of things, but they can’t walk the walk. If I were in your shoes, I would just keep walking. If he really wants to change, let him do it from a distance. See if he goes to therapy, stays in therapy, and actually starts changing his behaviors. My guess is that he is trying a different tactic to reel you back in. After 20 years, it’s not likely he will do a complete turnabout. I wouldn’t fall for it. I know you love him. And I know you have 20 years’ investment in this relationship. But from what you have described, this man is seriously bad news.
I believe it really is possible to start a new life in spite of 20 years with a sociopath. And to live very well. But it probably won’t be easy at first. I will keep you in my thoughts.
Thank you Jan7 and Stargazer,
I will do as you suggest Jan7 and get some counselling for myself, I know not to go to marriage counselling together because I have done it before and it has never worked – I always came off as the ‘deranged’ one. I will also look at the info on adrenal fatigue, thanks.
Stargazer, yes I agree with you about him being able to ‘walk the walk’ – I will watch and see. Thank you. x
Hi Walkinginlight, I know it is so hard to leave…took me a long time to finally get the strength & courage and mind set to leave him even though I wanted to leave everyday. The best advise I can give you is to reach out for more help, with your friends, family, counselor, hormonal specialist (adrenal fatigue issues = PTSD = caused by your husbands abuse) don’t isolate yourself, dont let your husband tell you that you should not get outside help.
The day I finally left I felt like a weight was lifted from me…it was not easy to leave also because a sociopath knows how to create a addiction with in the victims…so leaving you need to break the addiction (emotional bond) you have with him, just like a alcohol, drug, shopping, eating addiction you will have a withdraw period….this is a big part of the reason you are staying subconsciously your anxiety goes up when you are not with him but when you are (you think) your anxiety subside but it does not.
Great post by Jan7 – there is definitely an addictive element. If you had a close friend who told you her man was treating her like that, wouldn’t you be appalled and tell her to leave? It’s hard to see clearly when you’re involved because you are so addicted. There were so many parts of your story that made me cringe. But the part where he isolated you from all of your friends and family and the part where he called you a “fat bitch” stuck out in my mind the most. No one should EVER have to suffer that kind of abuse. And the isolation is one of their tools to control you. You really think someone who obviously has no respect for you whatsoever, who doesn’t even care about the well-being of his own kids, will change? I’d say the likelihood of this happening is about the same as you getting struck by lightening and winning the lotto all on the same day. Walkinginlight, once you make the decision to leave and get away from him, the fog and confusion will lift. It will not be easy but you will have your life back, and then you can have a chance at real peace and happiness.
I don’t post here a whole lot, so if you don’t hear from me again, I wish you all the very best in your life. It’s personally very satisfying for me to come here and see people on the verge of big changes reaching out for support. This site has helped change many lives. You will undoubtedly need a lot of support, but one thing I’ve noticed in my life is that once I make a decision to do something, the universe seems to rearrange itself to support my decision. This will be the case for you, too.
WalkinginLight,
I can understand your feelings,but Jan7’s post described the reason for the weakness~addiction(trauma bonding)+adrenal fatigue.
I somehow survived my husband’s shenanigans long enough to raise our daughters and for them to get out on their own.Actually there’s no “somehow” about it!I didn’t do in my own strength–I did alot of praying!As I was becoming physically worn out,my spirit was becoming stronger.
We separated for 5 yrs.I never meant to go back.But due to a fluke accident and resulting panic attacks,I gave in to my husband’s pleas to get back together.He said “he’d take care of me”.Sounded good,right?!
Once the “honeymoon phase” was over,was I ever in for disappointment!Soon,he was “couldn’t” make it to the bathroom in time,wouldn’t bathe,wouldn’t shave,wouldn’t brush his teeth–he just laid in bed while I was his “nurse on 24 hr call”.Yeah.He sure took care of me.He got his revenge for the 5 yr separation!
And yet…I wouldn’t give up!I thought I was taking care of “my duty”!You know…”in sickness or health”.He sure had the “wool pulled over my eyes”!There was even a time when he had me thinking he was getting better and that after many yrs of no intimacy was ready to start again.I remember telling a friend that though things had been bad,”I just have to give him a chance!”
Things went from bad to worse.He began publicly humiliating me again,and as if that wasn’t bad enough,he isolated me.That was the ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’.After all I’d done for this man;trying to show understanding and compassion and then he repays my kindness by making me his prisoner?!!Not only was my health continuing to deteriote,but my anxiety levels were going through the roof!
I walked out on him when I was choking on my breakfast and rather than being concerned,he called me Drama Queen over and over!He gave me the strength to do what I needed to do!
Blossom4th is correct, it gets worse when they return after the honey moon stage. This article I post explains the “emotional bond” you have to break. Part of ending a relationship is your cortisol levels go up causing panic attacks (it’s actually a condition that affects everyone). Since your cortisol levels are most likely off the chart becuase of the stress you have endured the anxiety/panic attacks are greater with someone leaving a abusive relationship..by staying the anxiety goes down but only for a short time then you are stressed once again.
http://www.narcissismfree.com/narcissist-no-contact-rules.php
Thank you for this link. I totally agree with the no contact. When my husband first left 9 months ago it was very difficult for me to have no contact. It took me a few months to realize that I would continue to let him abuse me through answering his insulting emails, texts and calls. When I no longer engaged in his “crazy making” he tried to put me down through messages to my 19 years old son. My son decided to cut off a contact also. It has been about 5 months now. The only way we handle things are through attorneys . I made this promise to myself that I will never talk to this evil being again. He wanted me dead, locked away or committed into a mental institution. When none of this worked out he left the family. To be honest the no contact saved my life. I imagine it is hurting his narcissistic ego to being ignored by both me and my son. He always thought he is higher than god. He is a worthless piece of garbage and does not deserve the love we had for him. This love I or we had for him died slowly over the last months and every day without him is a happy day. There is no love left today. Not even hate. He just does not exist for us anymore.