Editor’s Note: The Lovefraud reader who write as “Jofary” relates her experience with a sociopath in Canadian divorce court.
I first participated on this site three years ago when I learned that my daughter, then only a toddler, was being sexually molested by her father (my ex). Up until that point, I was dealing with things in the typical way. I had caught my ex cheating on me and, when our son was only three months old, he immediately moved in with his mistress, who herself had extricated herself from her fifteen year stable marriage, believing my ex to be her “best friend and soul mate.” That was extremely distasteful in and of itself but, given my ex’s contributions (or lack thereof) emotionally, physically, and financially to our brief marriage, I was able to disengage from him within a month of his departure. Unfortunately, he became aware that I was not going to be his “back-up” plan after he was done having his fun with this woman, and became extremely vindictive towards me. Perhaps it was my demeanour towards him — he was completely irrelevant to me and I treated him as such by refusing to answer his phone calls or greet him personally at the door during the exchange of our children. In any case, it propelled me on a path to utter chaos and unsettlement.
My ex refused to negotiate on the sale of our house, all the while refusing to share payments on the mortgage or massive family debt (while I was on maternity leave, no less), claiming “it benefited him to keep his name on the deed as long as possible” and eventually confessing that he “didn’t care how much it cost to go to court, he just wanted me out of the house.” He didn’t want much access with his children and sporadically paid child support. The house was my only source of income (rental) and stability for the children and I attempted to buy him out immediately, at the time he left, and when I could afford it. When it became apparent what he was demanding far outweighed what he was legally entitled to be paid by me, and he absolutely refused to negotiate, I reluctantly agreed to sell the house and decided to take the case to court to have it settled.
Moving away
Then, the realization that he was molesting our daughter, coupled with the fact that I no longer had secure housing in one of the most expensive places to live in North America, made me realize I had no choice but to relocate. I applied to a school 300 km outside the area and was immediately slammed with a do-not-remove order by him and a demand to have the children live with him full-time. I can only conclude that being court-ordered to pay child support was weighing heavily on his mind. He was, at heart, a parasite and given that nature, it probably seemed unnatural to be giving money when he felt he should be getting it! I was successful in fighting this because my situation was precarious at best and certainly not in the best interests of the children, and I went on to school in a diploma program that complements the degree I already have in the hope that I would be financially independent in the near future.
Going to court
Near the end of my diploma program, our court dispute over division of assets came due. On the advice of my lawyer, this was an oral process (as opposed to affidavit) so, since I was the plaintiff, I was the first to sit in the witness box and make my statements. It was painfully difficult for me but I did my best, and had prepared thoroughly beforehand. He followed, with his own statements and I was stunned, floored, by the entire debacle, realizing I had seriously underestimated his ability to deceive. I was expecting some lies, but not the outrageous dishonesty he displayed. He was a flamboyant liar — claiming he was responsible for twice as many family debts as I was, that I had refused to cooperate with medical, daycare, and extracurricular costs for the children even though the exact opposite had occurred (much to my frustration and financially difficulty) — complete with an air of sincerity, tears, and victim mentality. I, on the other hand, came across as frustrated, defensive and probably vindictive (the “scorned woman” syndrome) — as I well should have been considering how financially devastated I had become as a result of his parasitic behaviour since separation. I had no defence for his accusations because “my time” in the witness box was over and I realized I was doomed.
In the end, he “won” the case and the assets were split equally, despite the fact that he had not shared a dime in the mortgage costs, repairs to the house, or insurance costs, and had driven a vehicle I was paying for over the last three years, simply because the credit was in MY name, which he didn’t have to reimburse me for. All because the entire oral debate relied mainly on the spoken word, with no opportunity for dispute based on written proofs.
Credibility of witnesses
In retrospect, it would have been much wiser for me to have demanded the trial be done by affidavits, not orally. Then I could have presented the truths coherently and plainly, through the plethora of e-mails I received from him refusing to share costs and acknowledgment he was walking away with no debts. As it were, the judge made his judgment based on the credibility of the witnesses. It was stunning and difficult to accept that even though I told the truth, apparently my ex presented himself to be a much more credible witness than I.
The important lesson that I learned, and which I wish to share with other Lovefraud readers in a similar position is this: Do NOT expect the truth will come out in court during an oral trial. If your ex has been able to bamboozle you successfully enough to establish a relationship, and has a history of deception, then the chances are very good he or she will be able to appeal to judge in the same way. Practice makes perfect, as they say. Written affidavits are far better evidence when dealing with this type of individual, and the more evidence, the better.
Ox Drover,
Boring is beautiful, and I admit to having recently become something of a snob. We’ve reconnected with our oldest and dearest friends, and sticking to them like glue. They’re geeks like us, and it feels very comfortable. The church we’re settling into is solidly middle to upper middle class, and that fits too. I thought our social connections would be more diverse after Dan retired, but actually we’re living a more segregated lifestyle than ever before. We’ve segregated ourselves, not by race or income, but definitely by education and interests.
I feel sad, because the romantic in me was really passionate about the ministries I had served when I encountered the N and the S. But there’s no denying that the two men did flock together, were part of the same twisted subculture, and lived to play head games. In retrospect, expecting them to be appreciably different from each other was unrealistic. Further, It should have been obvious that their lifestyles and personalities weren’t appreciably different from that of the troubled community we were supposed to serve.
If I hadn’t been so mesmerized by what they said, I would have noticed how they lived. All the warning signs were there.
Oxy…I should stay off this subject, but let’s remember, the P targets the victim, who has tendencies to be “fooled” by the LIE of the P. Once the victim’s available supply, financial and emotional, is sucked out…the P is on to the next target. And the victim is blamed and smeared, and “others” don’t “get it.”
They buy into the LIE and the smear.
Housing. There is roughly $11 trillion dollars of mortgage debt in the US. Fannie and Freddie “hold” or “guarantee half of it, or $5.5 trillion. Property values have dropped 20% and total value of residential real estate in the US is about $20 trillion. Less than 10%-15% of the $11 trillion is in default or foreclosure. This is the view from the P’s running the show at the top…government and Wall Street Financials.
We victims buy a house…we are told by the P’s we qualify and the value will rise. If we don’t have 20% down or finance over 80% of the appraised value, we have to pay for PMI (private mortgage insurance) or LMI is “in there” (lender mortgage insurance) to cover THE LENDER against loss if we default.
So the P’s take our mortgage (and all other debt they can find)…they slice, dice, sell, bundle and “securitize” it, sell it and “insure” it against “risk”…six to ten times it’s original value. and resell and resell…collecting fees “free money” at each transaction….until the house of electronic cards collapses.
The PMI policy the homebuyer is paying for protects the LENDER against loss….so why is there a loss to the lender on the mortgage default?
Does it add up? By being fooled by the P, the victim stupid, irresponsible homeowner, defaults on 10% of $11 trillion dollars of mortgages covered by insurance he has paid against the lender’s loss .
The global financial markets lose, and governments (victim taxpayers including stupid homebuyers) bail out, $20 trillion+ of P “losses”.
Do the math.
The P’s take the money, blame the homebuyer…victim. The classic P lie….it makes no sense, and we join in with the P and his lie…blaming the victim.
Doh!
Jim:
Part of the problem with what I call the “magic mortgages” is that there was no PMI on them. YOu couldn’t afford 20 percent down? Not to worry, we’ll lend it to you on a piggyback loan. So, the original mortgage was still only 80 percent and didn’t require PMI. Make sense? No, not to me either, but that’s they way they sold this crap.
Magic mortgages are based on something we’ve discussed on this site continuously — magic mortgages. Yes, the lenders dreamed up these half-baked schemes. But, what about these people who borrowed them. I want to scream when I hear them say “I didn’t understand what I was getting into.”
YOu know what? I”ve looked at some of these loan products — and I have not one, but two law degrees — and I can’t tell you what they’re about. However, if you are signing on the dotted line for a million dollar home and you are making 17 thousand a year, your common sense should kick in and say “Whoa, Nellie! No way I can make that monthly payment.”
So, I’m afraid the victim’s don’t get a free pass for me. Basic rule of life is if you don’t understand what you’re signing, you don’t sign it until you have somebody explain it to you real clear.
Sorry — meant to say magic mortgages are based on MAGIC THINKING.
YEP! MATT you are so right! I look around me at the communities of $250K homes (which in this area would cost $2 million in other areas) that people were buying without any down payment and in some cases borrowing 110% of the value of the home on the idea tht the value of it would GO UP! Now that it is DOWN they are into the lender for 110% but the value of the house is now 80% of what it was so there is NO WAY they can buy out of that so it goes into foreclosure and there are no buyers either.
How these people were sold this bill of goods that they could afford 2 suv’s and a quarter million (or more) house on the salary of a school teacher and a bank clerk I do not have any idea.
It is unbelieveable to me…talk about a Ponzi scheme, they did that with Real estate too—-no one had a conscience when they sold these folks the bill of goods that they could have the American dream of this big house on their salaries. The “victim” also bought into it because it ws their DREAM, just like WE bought into the Ps scheme because it was our DREAM. The RE agent made their 6% commissoon, the banker made the loan, the contractor did okay building the house and everyone won—except the poor smuck stuck with a mortgage he couldn’t pay now they have less than nothing.
Just heard on the news today that there were 240,000 foreclosures filed in February. Up from January.
I agree with your “don’t sign anything til you understand it.” BUT anyone should be able to figure if they have no savings, and use 110% of their income each month to make payments on house and vehicles, there is something going on that it isn’t going to work for long.
I guess I have some of my grandparents’ depression era mentality, but I do my best to spend less than I make. To do without something I can afford, use things, and “use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.”
Ok, that post disappeared…so let’s go to an older, wiser, biblical rule: neither a borrower nor a lender be….
carry on…we agree and disagree…
We’ll see where it takes us.
By the way Oxy…nevermind….
G’night.
Jim/Oxy/Matt-
“We victims buy a house”we are TOLD by the P’s we qualify and the value will rise”
What in the heck are we doing relying on anyones crystal ball that we qualify and blindly trusting that the value will rise…. We know what we have,what we can afford, and that its a crap shoot as to the value rising…we choose to become the victim when we put our self worth and self trust into the hands of someone wanting to seal the deal for their own benefit… IF WE DONT HAVE 20% TO PUT DOWN OR CANT FINANCE 80% – PERHAPS WE SHOULD LOOK FOR A HOUSE WE CAN AFFORD – INSTEAD OF FALLING INTO THE P’S TRAP.
IS IT THAT THE P’S TAKE THE MONEY OR THE POTENTIAL HOMEOWNER HANDS IT OVER TO THEM ON A WING AND A PRAYER — WITH EYES CLOSED, HOPING DREAMING THAT THE P ISNT A P, BUT AN HONEST UPFRONT BUSINESS MAN WANTING THE BEST FOR THE HOMEOWNER AND HIS FAMILY.
People were sold the bill of goods – because they wanted to believe and live their fantasy…so they tossed reality and caution to the wind and said where do I sign… and the P said… right here on the dotted line… THANK YOU VERY MUCH. C YA.. Oh and by the way did you read the small print…(red flags) you need to put down 20% or finance 80% and incase you really dont qualify or if the value decreases you need to pay for PMI/LMI… Nice to meet you. Id love to stay and chat, but Im off to buy a new house myself with the money I just made on your deal. Technically I can afford it if it was my only residence but its my third, and well the cars and boats and mistresses add up… so Ill probably add more to the choas and just finance it too!
Its a little bit of both… the lender and the buyer… need to rethink/revamp the way business is done… honestly and realistically
BUYER BEWARE!
I guess maybe in some ways I got a good financial education because of my depression era grandparents. My egg donor was born in 1929. My grandparents were marginal farmers anyway and thrifty, and hard working, planned well, and lived on what they grew and made, didn’t go into debt except for their land which they had to buy most of from the estate of my grandfather’s father who died in 1926.
They worked like slaves to get this land, and didn’t buy things they couldn’t afford. My egg donor was a school teacher and then later an accountant, my step father was a school teacher so we never had much money, but they managed it well and saved a little bit every pay day. She’s still cashing the 30+ year old US savings bonds they bought for $12.50$ every pay day, each one pays out about $200 now with the interest over the years added to the principle for 30 years.
I grew up earning my own spending money, chopping cotton for $3 for a 10-hour day when I was 12, hauling hay for 5 cents a bale, got my first “real” job in 10th grade, working in a pharmacy during the summer and after school, and all day saturday during the school year.
Learned to save, budget, and balance a check book. I’ve been broke since then, while I was in college got down to $1.37 in my checkking account, and invested the money into a nickle ante poker game and won enough for groceries that week. Wrote and sold magazine articles and cleaned other people’s houses, bartered, raised my own food even while going to school, and did without or made do. Now I don’t owe a soul a dime, and times are tough, prices going up, money staying the same, 401K out the window, so that’s no cushion like I thought it was. I brought up my kids to learn to save up, pay their bills and work an honest day for an honest pay, but to whatever it took to find a job. Get an education, but work hard. Don’t be too proud to take a job “beneath” you if that is what you have to do.
This house is only the second house I ever owned, paid cash for both of them. AFter we moved here, kept the other house and a small MIL house on the property to rent out (good decision) decided a while back to sell the 2 rental units (another good choice as I sold at the top of the market). Did a lot of the construction here myself (I can float sheet rock with the professionals) which kept the cost down for a nice home.
I’m not any financially smarter than a lot of people, but I don’t “dream” big dreams that I am not sure I can pay for. One of my husband’s friends who was a financial consultant advised me to mortage the rental units and “leverage” my money and buy 10 more units and have them ALL paying rent. I thought about it, might could have paid them all off in 10-15 years (if the RE market hadn’t crashed) but I kept thinking that if the renter didn’t pay one month, or I had a dead beat, I didn’t have to scramble to pay the mortage on the rental unit, so I never did “leverage” against them. He died richer by far than I ever was, but I played it safe and in the end, I think I made the right decision.
I have been advised by financial people who were conservative to have at least six months worth of living expenses tucked away….which means doing without a lot of things sometimes instead of dipping into that fund. I accumulated my “living fund” a buck at a time sometimes, but I always put something into the fund each month.
I look at my spending, and since the down turn we have cut out a lot of”little” things that over the course of a year add up to hundreds of dollars. Instead of buying bottled water, we refill the bottles to take with us. We seldom go out to eat any more or stop in and pick up a few cokes (sodas). I stopped the cable, the house telephone, turned the thermostat back this winter, did some winterizing on the house. Turn off lights if we leave the room. All these things add up to a big savings at the end of the year. We don’t just zip into town for a loaf of bread, but shop once a week at most (we live 13-18 miles from town) and do all our errands in one town while we are there. I cook basic foods and plenty of them, but do not buy chips and “junk” foods or empty calories.
This year I am going to grow a garden again for the first time in a long time, and we will have home grown meat, milk, eggs and veggies. I have a small fruit orchard but I planted it in the egg donor’s yard to keep the deer away, so will have to buy fruit. I like us to have a balanced diet so we try to do that too. I keep a supply of basic foodstuffs, flour, beans, cooking oil, rice, corn meal, bread, powdered milk, sugar, and a few other things frozen in case of emergency. The Mormons have the right idea on that keeping a supply of emergency food, I think. I don’t have a year’s supply like they do, but enough for 2-3 months before I have to kill Fat and Hairy for meat. LOL
I’ve always tried to run my finances like a “business” so that there is more income than there is outgo, and that I am not “eating up” the profits every month by “high living.” I live comfortably, but “thrifty” and I even have indoor plumbing and electric lights—I wish that dog would run faster on the tread mill my screen is getting dim! LOL
I grieves me that so many people get out of highschool or college and have NO IDEA how to manage finances to their own advantage—it is just keep on spending til the credit card company won’t finance any more. Or not make one payment on something, so you can keep them from repossessing the car. I’m working with a young man now, just coming out of a short marriage with a psychopath and he is in deep financial trouble and has NO IDEA HOW TO HANDLE IT. Totally ignorant of financial things. Works hard and is respoonsible but IGNORANT TO THE MAX. Not stupid, just ignorant, and his parents didn’t teach him jack about handling finances.
He is a willing and eager student, but I’m not sure he can dig himself out without declaring bankruptcy at this point. His soon to be X just didn’t make the car payments for 4 months although he was telling him she was, then becuse the car was re-po’d (which now means he has another added debt to it) she burned the divorce papers instead of giving them back to the lawyer! Typical P! I coulda predicted that one without a crystal ball, but he didn’t even think to check if she was actually making the payments! He is also in the “toy department” with several nice “toys” he couldn’t afford and now has to keep paying on or give them back and still incur the debt.
I AM grateful to the egg donor for the financial advise and teaching that she gave me—-it has helped me throughout my life. I may not be “rich” but being out of debt and my house paid for puts me among the “richest 2% of the US population.” Right up there will Bill Gates! ROTFLMAO.
You guys have a good night, I am going to bed. The dog will have me up at the crack of daylight.
Oxy – You did it your way.. you trusted yourself…you made decisions based on what you had, what you could afford… and there AINT A DERN THING WRONG WITH PLAYIN IT SAFE!!! TOWANDA
Love the poker story…. I recently learned how to play Texas Hold Em at a charity event and am hooked! Lol Never played before and now play in World Poker Tour Amateur Poker League once a month – (play for fun.. no money…and the prizes for first and second place are TV’s, restaurant certificates, etc. its a fun night for sure)
And bite your tongue about Fat and Hairy… I AM BOINKING YOU FOR THAT ONE…. The LF Mascotts til the end!!!
Oxy, Matt, learnEDthe lesson….
“Oxy”I should stay off this subject,”….me, last night
LOL, I knew it. And I concluded from the answers, Bernie Mad(e)off is not a “P”….those people who gave him that money should have known better…their fault, they weren’t targets or victims, either.
Some other place, some other time….in the future, we’ll see how it turns out….as the P’s multiply!