By | January 26, 2009 280 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: It did not feel right, but I dismissed my discomfort

Editor’s note: The following story was submitted by the Lovefraud reader who posts as “Greenfern.” It is a classic story of sociopathic seduction.

When I first met the S, I was very young, 22, and in a pretty bad spot. I come from a broken, abusive family and I have been pretty much on my own since 16. I was managing by putting myself through college, working full time, step by step. A year before I met the S, I was hit by a car and the recovery from that sent me into a depression and hardship. I had no family support or insurance, so I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and tried not falling behind. I felt alone and struggling, but managed. I feel like I was a strong young person considering the circumstances.

Then the S appeared in my life. He was my TA at school. As it turns out he later told me that he had been observing me for over a year, but I was acting “stand offish” and “unapproachable” so he had difficulties getting to know me. So I guess when I hit the bottom after my accident I have become more approachable in his eyes and he pursued me.

Constant care and attention

He courted me very intensely, I felt off guard, like a deer in the headlight. He came across as this very dignified, old fashioned (he was only 28) gentleman with strong interest in my background. He kept asking if I needed help in my school work and brought me sandwiches and kept coming and coming at me. I felt strange, but I was flattered by the constant care and attention. Inside myself I felt weird, it did not feel right. But then I dismissed my own discomfort. I told myself “maybe I just need to relax and accept the attention and kindness”. I think at the time I have isolated myself from people and had little trust in myself being liked for who I was.

I told myself that maybe it was time to open up to people and receive. The problem with this was that I made the wrong choice of person to open up to.

He kept pursuing me harder, showering me with gifts and sweet little notes. He even branded my name into his arm. That should have been a big red flag. In fact when he showed me my name burned into his skin, I felt physically ill to my stomach and had a rising panic within me.

He wanted to hang out at all times. I felt like I had no time to myself at all. I kept telling him that I needed to do stuff on my own, but he replied to that by asking if he could come over after I do that thing. He wore me down with persistence and I did not say no. I did not know how to say no.

Phony clowns and bozos

Before I knew it, we were hanging out all the time. He told me about his problems with his parents, he made preachy speeches about the phoniness and hypocrisy of the world. He told me that now it’s us against the world and to “f the phony clowns and bozos of the world.” He convinced me to let him shave my head for a home movie. He told me that I was a mess and he will take care of me. He had me help him with his projects, including these films where he dressed me up as a boy wearing leg braces. He would pretty much decide when to eat and sleep. Many times I wanted to sleep at night, but he was asking for more.

In the same time he put me on this special pedestal, told me that I was the one for him and that I made him a better man. He said I was very special, he loved me, I was his best friend. He said we were meant for each other. He always asked if I was “the one” for him. I just could not say yes. I think this made him angry, but he would not say.

Completely suffocated

We moved in together, I have cut off my friends and social life. The S and I were doing EVERYTHING together. I felt completely suffocated, yet I could not even be clear to myself as to what was wrong exactly. I would have crying spells and could not put in words what was wrong. He delivered these little pep-talks about being strong and not caring about what the world says.

He took over many things in the household. Even though I was perfectly capable of doing those things, I have always managed previous to meeting the S. When I would do these things, he always made me feel like he could do them better; he would take them out of my hand. Slowly but surely he would be doing all these “favors” then make me feel like I owed him. He got mad at me because I did not say “I love you” enough in response to his million “I love yous” during the week. I did not love him. I dreamed of some miracle happening, so I could get away out of the relationship. I fantasies of him just going away. The idea of me ending the relationship filled me with dread, dread to his response. I felt like I owed to him to stay with him. He always said “I saved you, you were a mess when I met you” then following it up with “I love you”.

He would go through the garbage to see what I was doing on my day off and I am pretty sure he was monitoring me, even though I have no proof. He grew marijuana and collected toy guns in his special room. He also hoarded his own urine in soda bottles. According to him, he was too busy with his projects to go to the bathroom. Gradually he has become too busy with his art projects to have time for me. He stopped initiating sex. When I wanted to talk to him about the sex issue, he shot it down with “sex is WAAAAY over-rated” or “what do you want me to do about it?”

I wanted to feel the way he made me feel in the beginning, but I did not understand why he took me off the pedestal. In the beginning he would want to have sex multiple times a day, but now he did not even want to hear about it at all. I did not understand what happened.

More and more criticism

At this time he started criticize me on small things. For instance on my grammar. English is not my first language, so I felt sensitive to the issue. He said I was sloppy in my language.

Then more and more criticism has arrived, and he has become more and more withdrawn, physically and emotionally. He refused to have any discussions about the relationship. He said I was the one who had a problem with the relationship. He also told me that his friends were surprised that he did not have a younger and prettier girlfriend.

I think what was the beginning of the end is that I got a good job that I liked, made me feel good. I think it really gave me confidence to stand up for myself more. I started pointing out some of his BS, yet I was not feeling strong enough to break up with him, even though I wanted to.

Bringing home a drunken girl>/p>

On our 7th year anniversary night he told me he would be home by 8 pm, so we could spend some time together. He came home at 4 am with a drunk girl, laughing. The girl was one of his students. He was offended that I thought that there was anything weird about the situation. I was livid. I felt like my world collapsed. He showed up with flowers the next day.

Then not much after that, we had a Thanksgiving party where he acted like a total ass. Then he broke up with me the next day.

He was was unfazed and calm. He combed through all of our stuff to make sure he took everything he felt a right to. He went about with complete calmness, purchasing new bedsheets for his new place. Completely cold. He told me that he was now seeing a therapist and he thinks he is pretty depressed. For the last 3 years I was BEGGING him to see a therapist. He would not even talk about it. But I think this was just an act. Later I found out that he was cheating on me for the last year and a half with the woman he married not much after we split up.

I have been in therapy for a while now. I realize that those years I lived in a complete lie and I chose to be blind to it. My task is to recognize that blind spot and protect myself from Sociopaths like him. In a work in progress.

Please if you are out there involved with a sociopath, trust your intuition!

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I just recently met a guy- at a bar no less. Instant attraction and interest felt mutually. We exchanged phone numbers, and agreed to spend the day together the next day.

We had a nice time. He was FULL of flattery.
Then later that day he said, “I would never do anything to hurt you.”

Sirens went off in my head. The HIV positive sociopath said the same thing to me. And I even told him about that experience, and also that he said the same thing.

Later he said, “Thank you for coming into my life.”

More sirens. HIV guy said the same thing.

This guy doesnt live here though. He was just visiting. He left a few days afterwards. But those two days I bet I recieved a gazillion texts telling me what a beautiful person I was inside and out, telling me how sexy I am, and how much he wants to be with me….and looks forward to getting to know me….

what do you think? Socio? or maybe he just really likes me?

He does have a job. A house. Is stable.

I googled him, and checked him out. I didn’t find anything out of the ordinary. He story pans out as far as his career……

but I can’t ignore the comments he made that were WORD for WORD what HIV psycho said.


Some red flags that seem to belong to every new relationship with a s/p…

1) “He courted me very intensely” Like a hunter who gets their prey in sight their are very focus on that shot!

2) “He kept asking if I needed help in my school work and brought me sandwiches and kept coming and coming at me” How they just can’t do enough for us! I remember that one so well..

3) “Inside myself I felt weird, it did not feel right” It’s this feeling inside that we really need to pay attention too! I know how I felt it as well..

4) “He wanted to hang out at all times.” This one is very important as well. How they want (need?) contact with us 24/7 in the beginning of the relationship but of course this too will end after the “honeymoon stage”…

5) “He told me that now it’s us against the world and to “f the phony clowns and bozos of the world.” Listen to how they view other people and the world. Because this is how they will treat us after the “honeymoon stage” ends..

6) “In the same time he put me on this special pedestal, told me that I was the one for him and that I made him a better man.” First we are praised like Caesar but then stabbed in the back again like Caesar…

7) “He said we were meant for each other.” This one I call the “soulmate” pitch.

8) “He took over many things in the household.” The beginning of control and wearing down our boundaries .

9) “I wanted to feel the way he made me feel in the beginning, but I did not understand why he took me off the pedestal.” See number 6.

10) “At this time he started criticize me on small things. For instance on my grammar. English is not my first language, so I felt sensitive to the issue. He said I was sloppy in my language.” To make us in “their image” they must break us down and take away our personal power. The criticisms also start “small” but will build over time.

11) “Then more and more criticism has arrived, and he has become more and more withdrawn, physically and emotionally.” This is control and tells us if we do what they want we will be rewarded and if not… Well you know.

12) “He said I was the one who had a problem with the relationship.” Projections, This of course happen throughout the relationship, but will be intensified over the course of the relationship. Good red flag so we needs to look for and know what a projection is and see it when it happens.

13) “Please if you are out there involved with a sociopath, trust your intuition!” Yes we need to trust our feeling and when we experience them we need to start asking ourselves some very hard questions and then start packing our bags.

Thanks for sharing!


“But those two days I bet I recieved a gazillion texts telling me what a beautiful person I was inside and out, telling me how sexy I am, and how much he wants to be with me”.and looks forward to getting to know me”.”

Well texting anyone a “gazillion” times can’t be a good sign for me anyway. Way to intrusive for my taste…. Also building anyone up like this is again for my taste a little too much.

Just my two cents so….

Be safe and careful…


I would just be sure and keep the walls up and stay suspicious until you are sure of anyone. You know now what to look for. Just be smart, and don’t feel bad cutting anyone off who you think may put you at risk.


Thanks for sharing your story, Greenfern. I see so many similarities. When I was in my early 20’s I’d also been on my own when I was 16, escaping from an abusive family life and was way more independent that anyone should ever have to be. My first several bf’s were actually wonderful human beings. But due to my upbringing, I had weak boundaries, a poor sense of self, and inability to stand up for myself in a constructive way. The relationships all failed. Then I had one significant relationship with an emotionally unavailable man that was similar to your relationship in that I just was not able to effectively stand up to him. Eventually, he cheated right in front of my face, and I was left devastated for years. It’s only recently I realized how incapable he was of really loving me.

Cut to last year when I was 47 and living a life that is (again) way more independent that it should be, along comes the S, flattering me all the time, promising to buy me expensive stuff I needed the first time he met me (!), wanting to be with me a lot, and complaining of excessive boredom (a classic sign of sociopathy). I, too, felt put off by it at first and created some distance by telling him I was not interested in dating, only being friends. True to the amazing acting ability of sociopaths, he became a totally different person, backing off, and being the friend I wanted without the pursuit. It is what finally hooked me in, even though he eventually confessed that he was married (whole other story).

Fortunately, by this time in my life I had a little stronger sense of myself. After 2-1/2 months of no-shows and inconsistent behaviors, I got out for good and never looked back.

I wish for you continued healing, Greenfern. Those of us who come from such screwed up families seem to go through life with a hole inside and inordinate need to be cared for. It makes us vulnerable to dangerous people. I know you will make a better decision next time.

Ox Drover

Dear Greenfern,

Thank you for sharing what must have been a difficult time in your life with us. They are so “predictable” with their flattery at first and then like James pointed out, down the “line” with numbers 1 to 10+

I am glad you foound love fraud and are here sharing with us. This is a healing place and learning about them, I suggest if you haven’t yet, that you go through the archives and read all the articles one by one, and then later after that you can go back and read the comments if you’d like, but I bet just by reading the articles themselves (there is soooo much good information here) you will gain more strength and power!

Regaining our strength and power is important. You came from a bad background you said, but you were obviously a STRONG girl at 16 to work and put yourself through school. He took that strength away by pretending to want to helpyou, but he sucked your life out for 7 years, but now you are gaining it back. (((((hugs)))) and God bless you, Greenfern, and welcome here and thanks for such a good article.

The his number from my phone. I just don’t feel right about him. He was too full of flattery. Too many similarities for me to want to purse anything with him. The texts have stopped.


Hello all, still here, still not giving in. Things have settled and apart fromt he odd spitefull and cutting text I hace nc still. He did say there was court hearing next week to get a judge to order me to explain why I will not let him see the children and that the judge would then make a ruling. I have had no formal leetr neither has my solicitor so I am inclined to disbelieve him.
I empathised with the author of this letter, finding as each layer of lies and conceit unfolded there was still may more layers still to be uncovered and yet to come.
I now realise that he never existed, he perfectly tailored his act to suit my needs..I was bloody conned..and now I am not taking any hostages. Its all out.

Elizabeth Conley

Smart Girl Muldoon,

Nice and cynical.

Hang in there. Have you been getting your rest? Hope so.

You’re in my prayers.

Ox Drover

Dear Muldoon,

SO GLAD YOU POSTED, dear Muldoon! I have been so concerned about you!!! I am glad that you sound so STRONG too, and don’t believe a word the sod says! Yes, you have been conned!!! Let that knowledge and the anger you feel and the betrayal you feel make you stronger and give you resolve to hang in there!!! I am so proud of you, WARRIOR WOMAN!!!! Take no hostages!!! Good girl!!!

Don’t let his tricks make you crazy any more, don’t let his tricks make you doubt yourself any more, or doubt what he is. YOU KNOW what a piece of trash he is!!! Never let that leave your mind.

I will keep you in my prayers as well, and Elizabeth and I are not the only ones praying for you and sending positive thoughts your way for the protection of you and your babies! (((((hugs)))))

Meant to say I deleted his number…..


If you are even slightly suspicious, just don’t even go there. Sounds weird.


Hi Elizabeth and Oxdrover, its will be 6 weeks tomorrow that he went, at first couldnt stop replaying things in my head and trying to work out why.
I still think of him, not all day and I no longer care why, its not important, the fact is he did it and my eyes have been opened to it and cant now go back to being closed.
The kids dont even mention him, its weird, its like he was never here, although the 5 year old now sleeps in my bed, things are much more peacefull here and I no longer live waiting for it all to kick off, I have peace of mind for the first time in years. kind of missed the agro at first, found the calm unsettling, now I enjoy it.
I very rarely miss him, today i thought of him in that way, nearly got caught up in the false memories of when things were ok, I just get busy and forget it and it passes.
Thank you all here who have answereed my ramblings over the past weeks, I would not be where am now but for finally finding a place where everythhing is so clearly explained..I am hugely gratefull.



Glad to hear things are moving forward for you.

Regarding the supposed court hearing — you’re right. If your solicitor doesn’t know, he’s probably lying. My suspicion is he’d probably try to hit you with the ever-popular “What do we need the solicitors for? You and I can work this out among ourselves.”

Strange isn’t it how the non-stop aggravation becomes our norm and calm is so unsettling? My theory is that the calm is so unsettling because it was always the calm before the storm — we were constantly bracing ourselves for the next onslaught.

Ox Drover

Dear Matt and Muldoon,

Matt I think you are right about the “calm before the storm” bit, I think we become either addicted to or at least ACCUSTOMED to the continual storm and the only time there is any calm it seems “odd” to us.

Muldoon, I am so glad you checked in I had been concerned when we hadn’t heard from you in several days. Call me an old mother hen if you like, but I was so concerned for you. I’m not so sure why but you especially touched my heart when you frist started posting here. I guess I am a compulsive “worrier” about others which is good sometimes and sometimes not. I know I can’t fix your situation for you, but I am here if you need a cyber hand to hold. I’m glad you are getting so strong now,though, so I won’t “worry” so much when you don’t check in. I just know from the way you described the sod that he is a NASTY PIECE OF WORK.

I’m glad your children are not apparently so anxious now, I hope he is not contacting your daughter on the internet any more or trashing things. Maybe he will give up, I sure hope so, but I never trust that they will, they are like the “bad penny” they just seem to turn up when you least expect them to.

Good luck, Muldoon, and you and your babies are in my prayers. (((hugs))))


Matt, Ox,

Life with him was a constant storm and if trouble wasn’t brewing through his daughters, he created it himself. Sometimes it was through accusations for no reason, a rediculous debate about why men dance with women, for example, and if you didn’t give the “correct” answer, you were appauling and inappropriate and naive and embarrassed in front of everyone. There were many of those conversations where he stomped out and didn’t talk to me for days (just an excuse to find the x stripper or anyone for that matter).

The only calm I had was in between stalking incidents. One thing I wonder if anyone else experienced…… he cried a lot and eventually I realized that whenever he was crying as he told me something, it was a lie. Anyone else see this?

When he told me he was tortured a s a SEAL (didn’t happen)
When he said his friend in the NSA was killed and he was in danger (he didn’t exist)
When he said he killed seven people on behalf of the US government (NOPE)
When he told me he was overseas in July of 2005 and killed “the wrong” terrorist because of bad intel (LOL)
When he was renigging on showing me his REAL divorce agreement (because he lied to me about his income, homes etc)
When his mom, on her deathbed was telling him to confess(he said some men from “the gov’t” were there to see her at the nursing home so that he would not talk about his covert work)



The first day my S came to visit me (I had never met him before) he insisted on changing a bulb in a light fixture that was nearly impossible to change. I kept telling him it was no big deal, but he was very adament that he was going to change it (he only did it partially). When I mentioned I was saving for some new snake cages, he said he wished he could buy me the new snake cages and maybe one day he would. I found this VERY odd for a FIRST friendly visit. It was not supposed to be a date. When he stayed to watch a movie, he kept inching toward me on the sofa trying to touch me and telling me how good I smelled. This made me pretty uncomfortable. Then finally when I read him an immature, nasty email I received from a guy we both knew, he declared to me (unsolicited) that he was not anything like that guy, that he was different. (He was different, all right. If only I’d known…..). I remember commenting to him, “I don’t care, I’m not dating you!” It was my only way of getting him to back off. These were huge red flags! But I thought they were just signs that maybe he was just really lonely and liked me a lot. I didn’t think that was so terrible, especially once he backed off. Now I know they were true red flags.

Once he got home he posted about our visit on our website. He said he’s just gotten back from my house, and I was Wonderful, Amazing, Beautiful, blah blah blah (the uppers and lowers were very odd too). He continued on in the blog telling me what a sweetheart I was and how he can’t wait to visit me and my snakes again. At that point all the people on the thread were teasing us, and I was really embarrassed. I had to write him privately and ask him to tone it down. I had only met him once and was not even attracted to him at the time!!!! I guess in his mind, since he was attracted to me, I should naturally be attracted to him, because….well, wasn’t everyone? He thought he was some great catch. I was probably a big challenge for him.


I didn’t have that feeling of discomfort until the third time I saw him and he kept talking about wanting to go to Iraq to work for Blackwater doing security work because he was asked to due to his SEAL background. I kept asking him why he would leave a good job and his daughters…..etc. The following visit he asked me how I felt about people who kill people……..He was doing this to generate pity and concern and to intimidate and none of what he illuded to was true.

It took me several months to learn that he lied to me from the time he opened his mouth. he told me he wasn’t married and he was. He was never a SEAL. He didn’t kill anyone. He should have run away and maybe now his family won’t be so embarrassed by his lies. Even as I found out some of the truth he was telling me more lies.


Greenfern said that there was this man trying to be helpful and take care of her and that maybe she should just receive. That is EXACTLY my thought process. Here was a guy who just blatantly wanted to be with me and take care of me. I thought it was wonderful. I’m remembering that feeling of relief that maybe someone could be there for me. I’m certainly feeling that now, as I was just hit with major plumbing and car maintenance bills, and I’m already on the verge of foreclosure. I know if I ever start dating again, I need to stop projecting “caretaker” on that person. That’s where I get in trouble.

On the other hand, what is wrong with wanting someone to take care of you a little? There are some good guys out there who really do want to care about a woman. I’m trying to solve the catch 22 of how to find one of those who is not a sociopath.



I think it is OK to want someone reliable, who will care for you as you care for them. I long for it. I think we have seen it in an extreme case with the S, in that they pour it on then they take it all away at the snap of a finger…..THAT is not normal. Maybe we are looking for that man who is more moderate in their approach yet sincere in that their behavior is always consistent with their words.


I made a mistake. I broke No Contact, and of course I am left feeling worse than ever.


I texted him. He texted back that he couldn’t talk right now because he is out to dinner with his aunt. Which is one of the things he always says when he is with another woman. I texted back that is fine because I am at the zoo with my cousin. Now I feel awful. I had a week under my belt and now its ruined. Why is he so addictive to me? I hate it.


eliza, eliza, eliza….what did I tell you? No seriously, no contact is the only way. We are addicted for a variety of reasons…… but the focus needs to be on YOU taking care of YOU. I like the response but no more texting!

It’s hard but you need to find the strength. I think what I realize now is that we try to hard. We worked at it too hard and we wanted it so badly….. they know that. With the S we start to behave like need them more than they need us and we appear desparate. They smell the fear and they like it. YOU ARE NOT DESPARATE. Now if I date someone and he doesn’t show interest afterwards…….well then he must not be all that interested. If he was he would behave that way. We need to not care so much because there is another one right around the corner….and he may be better than the last.

The S may throw us a bone here and there to get our attention but it’s not because they are interested in us. They are interested in what they want form ANYONE. It’s hard to comprehend that when you love and you think they did/do too. If he was so interested he would have been on the phone immediately. It’s not you personally eliza that he isn’t interested in. You aren’t like a real person to him. No one is really. We are objects that supply what they need when they need it.

Do you want to keep living like that? Think about it you already suspect he is with another woman and YOUR intuition is probably good. You don’t need that shit. It hurts me just thinking about it. I get it. I’ve been there. WE DESERVE BETTER.


It just sucks because this is always how it goes, then in another week he will text me and act like he is dying to see me, the “bone”. I know he isn’t interested in me as a person. I just want closure and I can’t get it. I want him to admit all the lies and I want him to tell me he doesn’t like me. I have asked him to do that, and he always refused.



It has been over a year for me and I don’t believe we will ever have closure with these people. I used to do the same thing with the XS/P…..”tell me there is no hope”. he wouldn’t say it because he liked the hanging on and the pleading to listen to me. I liked that I wanted him and he hated me for it at the same time. He won’t give you that. You need to give that “freedom” to yourself by not looking to him but to yourself to say “I love myself more than this and I don’t need this shit form him or anyone.”

It’s not about him liking or loving you. If he is truly an S then he doesn’t know what love is and never will. Hang in there sweetie. It’s not about the mistakes you make it’s about how well you recover.


I have never felt desperation like he makes me feel. I loathe it in myself. He tortures me so well, he know exactly how to play it. I know he is an S, because he makes it apparent that he enjoys my suffering.


I feel stupid for talking to him. And I can’t help it I do feel sick that he is with someone else. It just makes me play over and over in my mind all the times he was with me and left to visit “family” which I now know was code. He told me fairly early in our relationship that the only reason he ever spent time with his family was to make sure that he got his inheritance. That I want to talk to him so much almost makes me feel like I am the crazy one, like is he just a guy who is not interested in me and I just can’t accept it. But the mind games have been so intense, the lying, the deceit, devaluation, contradiction, it’s all there. The harem. He is more than your average jerk. He is a predator, and good at it. He has me conditioned to come back, no matter what he does to me.


1. Don’t beat yourself up.
2. There are people here who can relate.
3. You know what he is so what will you do about it?
4. You are in the early stages so be kind to your heart.
5. BE SELFISH. It’s ok. You don’t have to respond just because he shows interest. It’s OK to BE RUDE to them. He is rude to you !


I take that back…..don’t be anything when it comes to him. Be a lady. But ignore him. If it seems rude don’t worry about it. Your only responsibility now is to yourself. You are young, smart and capable of loving. You will have that again……just not with him


I just want him to admit every lousy thing that he did. I want him to own it. When we first started talking he told me if he was thinking something he would just tell me, that he would be an open book. Well I want it, screw tact, I want him to speak what he did to me. I don’t know why I just want that so much.


My brain is complete mush and my heart is utterly destroyed, I have no closure, no clarity, I can’t stop crying and I do look desperate. Desperate to be further destroyed.



I just came from a drink with a friend who is involved with a N. He made the fatal mistake of telling N that he loved him. Since that day his life has been a bloody hell.

He told me that he is tired of the push and pull and tired of walking on eggshells. And I told him what I’m going to tell you — go NO CONTACT.

As I told my friend, these parasites get buried really deep in our brains. And until they are fully excised — if they ever are — they will use you and use you for their own personal gain.

In the beginning when I was white-knuckling it I placed post-it notes on my landline and mobile which had his numbers, etc listed with the reminder “DO NOT PICK UP.” It kept me from doing so and made me log onto this site.



They don’t admit anything. Aint gonna happen. He lied. Start fresh right now and take a deep breath. Tomorrow is another day. You will be fine. He is the desparate one. They just help us to THINK we are. You are strong.


Thank you Matt and KF.
I just try so hard to be honest and up-front with people, even when it is difficult. I have done my fair share of rejecting, I am a nice looking girl. If it needs to be done, I take care of it in the fairest most honest way I can. I just wanted the same. Not to be strung along like some after-thought, to be bedded in the same day as God knows how many others. And he knew I would know it was not dinner with his Aunt, he knows what I am smart enough to figure, he counts on it. I feel ill.



“I just want him to admit every lousy thing he did. I want him to own it.”

He’ll never do it. If he did admit to even one lousy thing, trust me when I say he would twist it around so that YOU were the one who drove him to do itl.

You sayyou’ll never have closure. You’ll never have clarity.

Actually, you do. Once you realized what your S was all about and decided you wanted him out of your life, you did have closure and clarity. You just didn’t like the form it takes. None of us do.


Don’t dump on yourself too much…
“Dinner” with his “Aunt”?! Humph!

My N would often call me after we’d spent the night together and thank me for the “Nice, relaxing, casual evening”.
One night I hadn’t been able to get him on either phone and the next day he said he’d had a “Relaxing, casual evening at home”. Suddenly it hit me! That is his-speak for dinner and sex (with someone else).
I followed it up with a look at his cell bill after he’d inadvertently let out a tidbit of info while complaining about another woman who had also been calling that night (he didn’t even notice his slip-up)…Yup, he was busy alright.
Whenever I heard the words, “relaxing”, and “casual” in reference to his activities, I knew exactly what he meant.
Had we still been living together – pretending to be monogamous, I’d never have had the occasion to notice this one.

Go have a nice bubble bath and breathe. Put on some tunes. Don’t beat yourself up. If you’re anything like the rest of us, you’ve probably had enough of that already.
I’ll be at one month NC on the 4th – WooHoo!


eliza, think about the xS’s tiny little testicles. It will make you laugh instead !!! We all deserve men with big balls! Yours doesn’t have any either (so to speak).

Ox Drover

Dear Eliza,

((((((Eliza)))))) You are in pain.

You won’t always be in pain. I know right now that doesn’t seem true. I promise you it will be true though.

READ ALL THE ARTICLES HERE–go back through the archives and just read the articles until you can go to sleep.

Then tomorrow post to us and read more. Knowledge=power and you CAN and you WILL take back YOUR POWER. I know it seems impossible right now, I’ve been therek, so have the rest of the bloggers here. We came here and we ranted and raved and cried and talked crazy, and we are on the road to getting free of the Ps. It isn’t a quick journey, but in the end I promise you you can c ome out a stronger and better person than you ever thought. YOU ARE STRONG. Right now you just don’t feel it, because you have been deeply injured by a SNAKE IN THE GRASS.

Matt is right, NO contact–none, nada, zip, zero, nothing, zilch. Don’t even listen to stories abouthim or messages to you. It will get easier ((((hugs)))))


Thank you Matt, pb, and kf,
Tiny balls are hilarious, I don’t care who you are. (unless of course you’re the guy with tiny balls). I am going to try again.
Enjoy your AUNT asshole, I guarantee she is no where near as hot as me!


just said a little prayer for you. I can sooo relate.


YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!


I am in terrible pain. And was worried about sleeping, thank you so much, I can see that you truly understand, thank you for your compassion.




hugs all around. THANKS


I’m not sure what I can add here, except my support as well.

I read what you write, and listen to your tone, and I hear how much you want this guy to behave with some courtesy, fairness and honor. You already know he’s slime. I hear you battling the way it’s going down, and you don’t want it to be his way. You’re struggling for some power over how this all plays out.

I’m not sure this will help, but what these people do is power. It’s all they do, because they’re incompetent in virtually every other method of human interaction. You’ve got this guy on the other side of the table proving over and over that he can do power better than you.

Well, here’s something to think about. What else important can he do? Can he love? Can he build anything lasting with another person? Can he even feel your love, except as it passes through his power filter? The answer is no. He’s a one-trick dog.

If the power thing is driving you crazy, the fact that he won’t play the game in the way that any feeling human being would do it, enforce your own rules. Don’t play with him until he belongs in the game. And that means showing that he really understands and is prepared to do a lot of repayment before you give him a thing.

With the help of my friends, I’ve developed my response if my ex ever shows back up at my door. No matter what he says to me, my first response is, “Where is the check for what you owe me, and where is the big gift that shows your gratitude and apologies for making me wait so long for repayment?” And when that doesn’t immediately appear, I shut the door. He didn’t pass the entry test.

This guy isn’t playing by the same rules as you, and your rules are your rules. He’s trying to slide by with mind games, and by showing you little snapshots of your dreams with his face cut out of some wanted poster and pasted into the picture. But you’re smarter than that. You already know he an imposter trying to pretend he’s a human being.

And that’s a hint about something you can do about this situation. If he’s so hot to get back into your life, let him figure out how to play by your rules. Who knows, maybe he’s just an immature jerk that needs to be trained in manners. I doubt it but it’s possible. Wait until he behaves properly before you respond.

That would be something like, “I know I’ve been a total jerk. I can imagine how you feel, and I can’t imagine that you’d want me back. But I’ve told everyone else that I don’t want anyone else but you. Here are the phone numbers, you can call it and confirm it. And here is a ticket to Hawaii for a week alone, because you really deserve a break from all I’ve put your through. I’ll take care of your dog and scrub your house from top to bottom, and fill your refrigerator before you come home. I’m doing all that to make reparations. I’ll be gone before you come back, and I won’t contact you again. But if you ever think you might be willing to give me a second chance, or if you even just need a friend, I’ll be here for you. If you never call me, I’ll understand.”

That’s how a real human being might communicate after coming to grips with the fact that he’s been acting like spoiled child on steriods. And it’s no less than you deserve.

If he comes up something like this, great. If he doesn’t, he hasn’t stepped up to your level yet.

And if he does, take the ticket and the housesitting, because you’ve earned it. But don’t call him. Because he’s already had his three strikes, you’ll never trust him, and if he’s really serious about practicing acting like a human being, you don’t want him practicing on you. You already know where it goes when he slips up.

Healing Heart

Oh, that’s perfect, Kathleen – the what a “proper behavior” would be. That’s so telling – and yes, it would be proper for such outrageously horrible things they do to us. But I know my ex S NEVER would have done it. The best apology/amends he could make was a text message saying “I love you Baby, Can I come over?” followed 30 mins later by a text message saying “We belong together” folllowed by another text ten minutes later saying “you are a cold b*tch and you will die alone.”

Yep….not quite the “ticket to Hawaii and I’ll clean your house” apology and amends.



“Meant to say I deleted his number”..”

Who know just maybe you just dodged another bullet?


“I think it is OK to want someone reliable, who will care for you as you care for them. I long for it.”

I know I too long for something like that as well…

But I also know I am an enabler and “fixer” for some. This is what got me into trouble with my ex s/p. This is also why I believe she was attracted to me…

I am now working on this with my self. I still found myself doing this but am getting better each year. Rewiring my thinking (feeling) and trying to stop myself before I enable anyone or try to “fix” their problems. In a way I am hurting them by doing so. It doesn’t give them to opportunity to solve their own problem and by doing so learning how to take care of themselves. I tell my self this problem in me must stop! Stop cheating them and myself for whenever I do enabler someone or fix a problem it doesn’t really help ether one of us..

Now I will sit down and discuss the problem(s) and give them ideals as to how “they can deal with it” and remembering my own boundaries and theirs. I am getting better but it takes time and real effort on my part…


Just adding my support, too. Been there. The desire to get closure eventually fades with time, believe it or not. You can’t get the kind of closure you want because he is not capable of it. Don’t let this creep suck your valuable life away from you. He is not worth one minute of your time. It does get better. As you can see, we’ve all been through it. ***hugs*** Don’t worry that you had a backslide. Tomorrow is another day. You can get your power back by just deciding you are worth more than that, and no man that treats you like that will ever deserve a minute of your time. He doesn’t even deserve to know how angry and hurt you are. That privilege should be reserved for those who care for you.



NC (no contact) is always a very long and dangerous journey for all of us. But each time we contact them or they get thru to us we lose ground. Then we have to start again from that point when going NC again. It might be a good ideal to think outside to box. I mean come up with new ideals about how to avoid them. How to catch yourself before you make that call. I use to put up notepads around my phone to remind me what not to talk about with my ex s/p. In the beginning because we had children together there were times that I “had” to talk with her. Of course that was before the dame broke and all hell let loose. (long story).. After that both the children and I started our NC. It will be 3 years on May 22, 2009.


It’s very hard but we can do it Eliza and you can too!

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