Editor’s note: The following story was received from a reader whom we’ll call “Violet” about her experience with a long grift, not of money, but of intimacy.
I knew L when we worked together at a call centre as customer service representatives. He seemed nice, and he had lovely, expressive brown eyes and a gentle nature. I was losing weight at the time, and he asked for my help, so of course I gave him advice and tips. He began to lose weight, and he invited me over to his and his girlfriend, M’s, apartment for dinner and to show him some ‘exercise moves’ (now I think it was mostly an excuse to ogle me). He looked at me very intently, it wasn’t menacing, but I definitely felt like he wanted to do more than just watch me.
At work he would call me over sometimes and tell me that he thought of me as a ‘really good friend.’ I would thank him, but I thought it was a strange thing to say because we didn’t know each other very well. The call centre was a gossip mill, and someone had told me that L and his girlfriend were into threesomes. That’s not my thing, but I don’t judge, and I didn’t think much of it at the time. I also got in touch with an old friend that had known L and M at another call centre. She told me that L had asked her to be in a threesome. She politely declined, but the incident got him fired (he eventually told me this). Again, I didn’t think much about it, but I did think that it was a bit careless to ask a co-worker to have sex with you and your girlfriend, to say the least.
I left work to go back to school, and I would get e-mails from him every so often. I would send a polite reply. Last year, he and his girlfriend moved to my city so she could go to school, and L and I went out for dinner. It was at this time that I realized that he liked me as more than a friend, so I decided to find out what kind of relationship he had with M. He told me it was open, and that M said that he could do whatever he wanted as long as he never left her. That didn’t seem very open to me, but I figured it was an arrangement that worked for them.
Friends with benefits
He said he wanted a ‘friends with benefits’ relationship with me. But he would lay on the sweet talk really thick. He would say I was a beautiful white dove with eyes of light, that when he thought about me he didn’t want a cigarette, I was a copy of Eve, I was Aphrodite, I was even an angel. But we still didn’t know each other that well, and his compliments were too dime store romance novel for my taste, although they made me feel good about myself.
Read more: Why sociopaths cheat
I tried to get to know him better. I knew that his father had died, but he didn’t talk about him much, which I found odd, but I chalked it up to masculine reserve (we always find an excuse, don’t we?). He had wanted to be a minister, and had been in a Master’s program, but he gave me a vague answer about why he dropped out. I thought it was strange that someone who desired a religious vocation would be content drifting to various call centre jobs for the past ten years. He also never had any ideas for activities, I always had to make suggestions, and it seemed like he relied on other people for entertainment because he didn’t know how to entertain himself. It was as if he had no inner life.
He would also look at me with such (I thought at the time) longing it was unnerving, but now I think it was also a predatory gaze. At one point the sweet talk was too intense and I told him to tone it down. He seemed so sad after that, he said he was patient, but he said he was patient a lot, and that bothered me. He was always online and he messaged me constantly to see how I was doing. There were red flags waving at me, but I thought he was very sweet and attentive, and he seemed like he desperately needed a friend and some affection. Once I decided I could ignore his lack of ambition and it was only a friends with benefits relationship that wasn’t going to go anywhere anyway, I let him know that I wanted to be intimate with him. That part was very nice (I’ve noticed that other writers on the site mention that the sex is often good). Our sexual relationship lasted for three months.
Open relationship?
L seemed to really like me, but he could only see me when M was away, he told me she was seeing her girlfriend on the side (she was bisexual, he said). If it was really open, I wondered, then why can he only see me when she’s somewhere else? The only time L spent the night with me was a weekend M was away. He spent one night at my house, and he didn’t call her, she thought he had died, he told me. The next night, I went to their apartment and L called her while I was there, but he didn’t mention that I was in the apartment with him. He wanted me to sleep with him in their bed.
By this time he had started complaining to me about M, and I was beginning to hate her (I never thought that way about her before, she seemed nice, but very depressed). But I couldn’t sleep in their bed, it seemed like too great a violation of their relationship, so I made an excuse and left. I think that he didn’t want to be alone when M was gone, and any warm body would do. Once we started having sex, L talked to me online less and less, sometimes just sending a ‘check-in’ e-mail. I felt like I was being used, that I was giving him something M couldn’t, because he told me they hadn’t had sex in a long time. That didn’t bother me much until I realized I wanted an actual boyfriend, and it couldn’t be him because he would never leave M, and we weren’t compatible anyway.
At this time I made plans to meet him but he couldn’t because he was in a tight financial spot, so I said we shouldn’t make plans until his money situation improved. (Also, he told me that his sisters gave him some money but had turned him down when he asked for more, he then asked me for $20-$30, which I thought was in bad taste so I said no, my refusal and his lack of money didn’t seem to bother him very much.) He e-mailed me back saying that he agreed we should wait until he had more money, but then he said I was the most important thing in his life and he didn’t want to lose me. At first, I was flattered, but then I really thought about what he said. How could I be the most important thing in his life when he barely talks to me and he’s living with another woman? It defied all logic. If I saw red flags before, I was hearing sirens now, too.
Break-up e-mail
After a lot of deliberation, I sent him an e-mail (we rarely spoke on the phone, which also bothered me, if he liked me so much, wouldn’t he want to talk to me more often?) telling him I wanted an actual boyfriend, I felt like I was being used, and that being with me would not fix the problems he has with M. I was harsh, but I told the truth. I had hoped he would apologize and we could go back to being friends, or at least end on good terms. A few hours later I get an e-mail from M, telling me that they had been together for over ten years (he never told me that), that she loves him (he told me that they were together mostly to split cost of living, and that he thought no one cared about him) and that our friends with benefits relationship never happened, because if it did ‘he would have told me.’
I was devastated. He had lied to me and to the woman he presumably loves and has been with for over a decade. I have tried to piece together what may have happened. From what M wrote, he probably read my e-mail, and he was afraid I would tell M what we did (I never would have told her, he made me think she was a bad person), he most likely told her I had a ‘crazy idea’ that we had had sex, and that I wanted them to break up. He probably made me sound delusional. Maybe he even suggested that she write me an e-mail to ‘set me straight.’ She ended her e-mail with ‘If you want a boyfriend, I suggest you find someone single.’ I never replied to her, but I did send him another e-mail that said I was removing him from my facebook profile and blocking his e-mail. I haven’t contacted him since, and he hasn’t tried to talk to me.
The girlfriend didn’t know
It was at this point that I realized that M had no idea that L had visited me many times at my house. She thinks we only went to dinner once or twice and went for a few walks. I also realized that I thought M was a horrible person based on what L told me. I once went to their apartment and while he was in another room taking a phone call, she showed me family pictures; it seemed like she really loves and cares about L and his family. L once told me he thought M and I were a lot alike. He cited our love for animals, but I think it was really because we’re both nice, decent girls with shaky self-esteem, and he thought he could use me for sex, and he uses M because she gives him some semblance of a normal family life, and does things like cook for him.
I don’t know how much he even liked me, I think he got off on the thrill of deceiving M, and he thought I would be a willing partner because I like to believe I’m a free thinker and being in an open relationship intrigued me. Although I was raw for about a week, and I wondered if he had lied to me about everything (did he really think I was beautiful?), talking to my friends about what happened has helped me a lot. My roommate has since told that me he never liked L, because when they spoke he thought L was subtly trying to bend him to his will, and he reminded him of his ex, who was abusive and had tried to kill him. It was then that I started thinking that L was a psychopath, and I found the Love Fraud website. I’m not sure if L is a total psychopath, but his ability to lie to his long-time girlfriend and using her to hurt me makes me think he has enough of those awful traits to be dangerous.
I realize that I loved L, but actually, I loved a fantasy; a sweet man caught in an open but troubled relationship he felt he couldn’t leave, and he made me feel like I was wonderful for showing him so much affection and understanding. I am getting over the illusion, but I worry about M, who is still trapped in his dreamland. Maybe she really is rotten, and maybe they deserve each other, but I can’t imagine what he’s done to her over the years. I believe he played the ‘wounded bird’ routine with me when it is really M who is abused in the relationship.
I worry he might try to hurt her, or someone else he gets involved with. I want to contact her to tell her my side of the story, but I know she will only think that I’m crazy, and if she questions him, he’ll twist my words around to his benefit. I’m trying hard to let that urge to contact her go. Unfortunately, she will have to figure it out for herself, because psychopaths are good liars, but they’re not that good. His mask will slip eventually. I don’t worry that he will contact me again, as other psychopathic exes on this site have done, because he knows that I can no longer be manipulated. I’m sure he has moved on and doesn’t even think about me.
Psychopathy
The funny/sad thing is that I have a degree in psychology, and I specialized in abnormal psychology. I’ve read a great deal of the literature on psychopathy, and one of my professors even worked with Dr. Robert Hare. I was fooled, and I feel foolish. Despite friends who know both L and I telling me it was a bad idea to go out with him, despite knowing he had hit on other girls, I went out with him anyway. L seemed so sincere, but the more I thought about the odd intensity of his words and actions, and how they didn’t match up, something told me it wasn’t right. I could never get those little red flags to stop waving in my head. But I think I had to figure that out for myself.
I consider myself lucky that I was the ‘Other Woman’ and not in M’s position; I couldn’t imagine ten years with him. I hope M finds peace and happiness, and as for L, I don’t think he will ever know what love feels like, because psychopaths are a different species. I don’t think they are completely human. Some people on this website describe them as ‘broken,’ but psychopaths were never functioning to begin with. They can’t change, but we can teach ourselves and others their tricks and avoid them as much as possible, and that’s empowering.
I’m sure that there are other psychopaths who are using the open relationship model to lure partners who could never be with a cheater. An open relationship is a perfect cover for a psychopath; because often, the secondary partner isn’t integrated into their lives like the primary partner is, and their family and friends often don’t know it’s open. L’s family didn’t know, and although I wanted to meet his family and friends and vice versa, I knew I couldn’t as the secondary partner. If I had, maybe I would have figured out something was wrong, sooner.
In hindsight, I should have never have taken L’s word that M was okay with an open relationship, I should have asked her directly (as awkward as that would have been), but I’m sure he would have made an excuse as to why she didn’t want to talk about it. I came out of the ‘relationship’ with L relatively unscathed, and what I have taken away from my experience is: don’t feel bad for trusting people every once in a while. We’ve all trusted people before and it turned out well, and it will again. I’m not jaded, but I’m definitely wiser. I think these lyrics sum up my experience best:
I’m just another john you gypped
another sucker stiffed
A walk on role in the script
to your long, long grift
The love that had me in your grip
was just a long, long grift
“Long Grift,” from Hedwig and the Angry Inch
Learn more: Survivor’s guide to healthy people and healthy relationships
Lovefraud originally posted this story on July 10, 2010.
LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Lost and really need help
Shabby,
I don’t have compassion for the P, I don’t have any feelings for him personally.
It was business to meet the legal wife and the business was about my freedom. The observations were sobering.
She was very outgoing, kind and forgiving to me. I am grateful for that and for her help in the proceeding.
I am sorry that any creature lives in distress and I believe his tortured soul must because what he was seeking, he had twice but was unable to connect with it because of his disorder. And twice he let go in favor of going to prison. Its something I don’t think I can understand. Nor will pursue trying.
What is true is true and he is what he is. I make no mistake about that. And, will act accordingly.
The rest, like the wake from the boat fades into calm again like it never even happened.
Heather,
In regards to your telling M about your relationship, my advice is “get out and save yourself!” I completely understand the need to help her and the feeling that you are doing her an injustice by not telling her. I was pretty much in the same situation and it totally backfired on me (he made sure of it). As soon as I found out he had several other women, I ended all contact with him. I did, however, continue contact with one of the women. She was still seeing him, and I tried desperately to help her leave him (she tried many times and kept going back). As soon as he figured out we were talking, he played us against each other. He was very good at it, so much so that we began to distrust each other. He even got me to end contact with her and tried to convince me she was lying and he was the victim. It almost worked, but in the end I decided to stop all contact with both of them. It was difficult, because I felt like I lost the battle. He won. My failure to “save” her was very difficult. I also lost the one person (or so I thought) who really understood what I was going through. Then I found Lovefraud. One email to Donna and the support just came flowing in. No way was I going to ignore the advice I got here. And I’m so glad I listened. No contact is the ONLY way to go.
I wanted to contact her again and tell her about this site, what I had learned. She kept going back because he said he loved her, and only her, and wanted to change (and was telling me the same). We’ve all heard it before. I do wish I could tell her what I know (that he is a psychopath and that he is not capable of change). But doing so would only open the door again and put myself back on his radar. I’ve come to the conclusion that I can only be responsible for myself and my own family. She will have to figure it out on her own. Four other women have revealed themselves to her, and she still chose to stick with him. This is beyond my reach.
Chances are, M has seen the red flags. You are probably not the first woman to be intertwined in their relationship. If you try to help her and get involved, I believe you may be putting yourself in danger. The only obligation you have is to yourself!
Keep reading everything on this site”it will help you immensely.
BentNotBroken, hello! I have been wondering how you are doing, it sounds like you have grown stronger and stronger, and I think it is wonderful that you are here encouraging others!!!! Towanda!!
Wow, thanks everyone for the support!
I’m starting to think psychopaths target kind, compassionate people because they know we want to do the right thing and warn others, but like you all said, it only hurts us in the end. Also, when we do this, it gives them a chance to play the victim. I’m trying to come to grips with it.
In the end, L was never physically, sexually or verbally abusive with me, and I did not see any evidence of physical abuse with M. I think she will be ok, she’ll find her way on her own. If I ever hear that they have broken up, then I will try to reach out and maybe she will be receptive.
Thanks again!
Heather/’Violet’
Heather…..many of us here have either hired a PI or done the work ourselves….and YES…you do uncover things.
Silver hired A PI who didn’t do squat for her…..
didn’t provide her with what she needed…..
I will always….from this day forward…..check into ANYONE who I allow close to me or my kids…..
there is simple things you can do…..online…..free….to cross reference info you find with what you are told about a person.
I always find this ‘helpful’ in scouting out trouble BEFORE it comes my way.
and yes….they do seek out the kind, compassionate, forgiving ones…….the ones who are raise with the ‘all people are good’ mentality…..easy prey to exploit!
And what you say about the spath not being abusive….well….I guess that is all relative to how YOU percieved abuse.
From what you wrote….I see it differently.
No, he may not have hit you with a baseball bat, no he may not have stolen money from you…..
he certainly emotionally raped you…….lied to you to get you in the sack. He ‘primed’ you as a victim.
Good luck….and KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN NOW GIRL!!!!
be thankful your not M.
Hi ErinBrock,
Thanks for the info on hiring a PI. I think I was catastrophizing earlier, but it’s good to know others have used it, I hope I won’t need to use it in the future.
As for the psychopath not being abusive, I definitely see manipulation as abuse, and I feel abused having to keep his secret. It was emotional rape, he didn’t use force, but he did use lies. It’s this sort of insidious, often invisible abuse that is hard to prove. You can prove someone broke your nose, but how do you prove someone broke your spirit? Abuse is abuse. I am just trying to justify (to myself) why I should be No Contact with both L and M. I don’t think she is in any immediate danger, she’ll get out, eventually.
Thanks again!
Heather
shabbychic,
Thanks for thinking of me. I am doing really well! No contact..I stopped counting the days but it’s been more than 2 weeks. I read one of the articles on this site or linked from this site (hard to keep track) about positive thinking and how to segment your thoughts into “files.” So whenever I think of him, I remind myself that he is in an obsolete file, and I mentally close the file and put it back in the drawer. It helps because I don’t allow myself to dwell or get depressed over something I can’t change.
The one thing I can do is try to help others who are going through it. It helped so much to have people who cared and took the time to write to me when I needed it the most. I want to do the same if I can.
Heather, stay strong and know that you are not alone. It feels so much better to be on the outside looking in than on the inside wanting to get out!
General Comments on Sex, Intimacy and What Sociopaths “Want”
I do not classify all sociopaths as being deliberate and calculating. Not only that, everybody wants something, be it love, security, success, even sex.
While sociopaths exhibit many common traits, the defining traits are lack of remorse, guilt or empathy. Thus, not all cheaters are sociopaths nor are all those in unconventional relationships. The same can be said for controlling individuals. But because they lack guilt does not mean that all go about life thinking they can do anything they want. Certainly some do, the most egregious criminal, but many are benign, the “sociopath next door.”
Somebody mentioned that today’s more permissive society makes spotting a sociopath harder. I think the opposite and any “fringe” individual should be viewed with caution. A good example is the “Ink” subculture. Another, those too into the Goth, Glam or Punk music scenes.
Yes, many sociopaths want power, sex or control; however, I believe some also strive for the “connection” that everyone around them has and they lack.
Part of my experience with a sociopath was stumbling upon a very detailed “profile” based upon the nearly 1000 profiling questions he answered. Compared to the “average” person, Jamie was more aggressive, more greedy, kinkier, less pure, less trusting, less moral, more pessimistic — typical for a sociopath. In fact, his complete profile does not indicate a very nice person and very opposite the impression I had of him in person, except for all the red flags I ignored.
However, very interestingly, he is less loving but more desiring of love; introverted too. Desiring of love and introverted are not typical sociopathic traits.
If he just wanted sex he could have had sex. Since we lived in different cities, he could have stringed me along for whatever he wanted every time he came to New York.
I agree with Oxdrover that the hormone Oxytocin (or lack thereof) plays an important, if not well understood role in sociopathy and is at the core of the sociopath’s inability to truly connect with another individual and their lack of empathy as well. I experienced this firsthand as only an individual without empathy could have done what Jamie did to me.
There are some studies indicating that shyness is linked with low levels of Oxytocin, an interesting twist as sociopaths are not typically seen to be shy. Thus, there is some consistency in this otherwise “inconsistent” sociopath.
Hi behind_blue_eyes,
Regarding sex and love, I also wondered about that with L. If he just wanted sex, why didn’t he find someone who just wanted sex, too? There are plenty of websites, and escorts, for that. Why wait for me for three years? I guess for them it’s the thrill of the hunt, they are so patient, scarily so.
L once told me that the first girl he had sex with never spoke to him again, and that he had a short term fling but always wanted a girlfriend, that’s when M entered the picture. Again, he could be lying, but I think, along with sex and control, he wants connection, but he will never have that. Or, they just don’t want to be alone and face the emptiness.
Also, I’m curious how you stumbled upon the profiling questions Jamie answered, was that a self-test or something he had to fill out for work?
Thanks,
Heather
Dear Heather, I’m not Behind Blue eyes, but I’d like to answer your question if I might…it isn’t “just sex” it is the LONG CON and fooling someone. If he had a choice between just getting laid and fooling someone + getting laid, the latter is the perfect con whereas the getting laid anyone can do that, no challenge at all.
He told you all these things that M supposedly agreed to (the 3 somes and open relatinship) but SHE never told you these things, and my guess is that SHE didn’t know about them.
Typically, “attached” men lie about how the other party in the situation is or thinks etc. so that they can con someone else for sex etc. Of course he has already lied to her about how you HIT ON HIM, so that if you try to out him to her, she will not believe a word. Again, typical behavior in a P.
The challenge of the con, the control over both women, one to get into her pants, and the other to keep her from believing is part of the allure of the entire game with the P.
Since they are NOT connected or bonded to others except as “property” or “supply” (The same way I am bonded to my cattle–except for the 3 pet cows) I would be very angry if I lost one of the animals through theft etc. that is my PROPERTY, and they SUPPLY me with meat so I use them without any guilt, but they are MINE. I OWN then. I frequently con them into going in to a corral where I will load one to go to the butcher…I have CONTROL over them. If one were to try to get away from me or fight back, I would eventually kill it one way or another. So I have a kind of psychopathic relationship with my beef animals. Actually, I do try to give them a good life and a painless death, but you get the idea of how a P thinks about their property and relationships are simply property to them.