Editor’s note: The following story was received from a reader whom we’ll call “Violet” about her experience with a long grift, not of money, but of intimacy.
I knew L when we worked together at a call centre as customer service representatives. He seemed nice, and he had lovely, expressive brown eyes and a gentle nature. I was losing weight at the time, and he asked for my help, so of course I gave him advice and tips. He began to lose weight, and he invited me over to his and his girlfriend, M’s, apartment for dinner and to show him some ‘exercise moves’ (now I think it was mostly an excuse to ogle me). He looked at me very intently, it wasn’t menacing, but I definitely felt like he wanted to do more than just watch me.
At work he would call me over sometimes and tell me that he thought of me as a ‘really good friend.’ I would thank him, but I thought it was a strange thing to say because we didn’t know each other very well. The call centre was a gossip mill, and someone had told me that L and his girlfriend were into threesomes. That’s not my thing, but I don’t judge, and I didn’t think much of it at the time. I also got in touch with an old friend that had known L and M at another call centre. She told me that L had asked her to be in a threesome. She politely declined, but the incident got him fired (he eventually told me this). Again, I didn’t think much about it, but I did think that it was a bit careless to ask a co-worker to have sex with you and your girlfriend, to say the least.
I left work to go back to school, and I would get e-mails from him every so often. I would send a polite reply. Last year, he and his girlfriend moved to my city so she could go to school, and L and I went out for dinner. It was at this time that I realized that he liked me as more than a friend, so I decided to find out what kind of relationship he had with M. He told me it was open, and that M said that he could do whatever he wanted as long as he never left her. That didn’t seem very open to me, but I figured it was an arrangement that worked for them.
Friends with benefits
He said he wanted a ‘friends with benefits’ relationship with me. But he would lay on the sweet talk really thick. He would say I was a beautiful white dove with eyes of light, that when he thought about me he didn’t want a cigarette, I was a copy of Eve, I was Aphrodite, I was even an angel. But we still didn’t know each other that well, and his compliments were too dime store romance novel for my taste, although they made me feel good about myself.
Read more: Why sociopaths cheat
I tried to get to know him better. I knew that his father had died, but he didn’t talk about him much, which I found odd, but I chalked it up to masculine reserve (we always find an excuse, don’t we?). He had wanted to be a minister, and had been in a Master’s program, but he gave me a vague answer about why he dropped out. I thought it was strange that someone who desired a religious vocation would be content drifting to various call centre jobs for the past ten years. He also never had any ideas for activities, I always had to make suggestions, and it seemed like he relied on other people for entertainment because he didn’t know how to entertain himself. It was as if he had no inner life.
He would also look at me with such (I thought at the time) longing it was unnerving, but now I think it was also a predatory gaze. At one point the sweet talk was too intense and I told him to tone it down. He seemed so sad after that, he said he was patient, but he said he was patient a lot, and that bothered me. He was always online and he messaged me constantly to see how I was doing. There were red flags waving at me, but I thought he was very sweet and attentive, and he seemed like he desperately needed a friend and some affection. Once I decided I could ignore his lack of ambition and it was only a friends with benefits relationship that wasn’t going to go anywhere anyway, I let him know that I wanted to be intimate with him. That part was very nice (I’ve noticed that other writers on the site mention that the sex is often good). Our sexual relationship lasted for three months.
Open relationship?
L seemed to really like me, but he could only see me when M was away, he told me she was seeing her girlfriend on the side (she was bisexual, he said). If it was really open, I wondered, then why can he only see me when she’s somewhere else? The only time L spent the night with me was a weekend M was away. He spent one night at my house, and he didn’t call her, she thought he had died, he told me. The next night, I went to their apartment and L called her while I was there, but he didn’t mention that I was in the apartment with him. He wanted me to sleep with him in their bed.
By this time he had started complaining to me about M, and I was beginning to hate her (I never thought that way about her before, she seemed nice, but very depressed). But I couldn’t sleep in their bed, it seemed like too great a violation of their relationship, so I made an excuse and left. I think that he didn’t want to be alone when M was gone, and any warm body would do. Once we started having sex, L talked to me online less and less, sometimes just sending a ‘check-in’ e-mail. I felt like I was being used, that I was giving him something M couldn’t, because he told me they hadn’t had sex in a long time. That didn’t bother me much until I realized I wanted an actual boyfriend, and it couldn’t be him because he would never leave M, and we weren’t compatible anyway.
At this time I made plans to meet him but he couldn’t because he was in a tight financial spot, so I said we shouldn’t make plans until his money situation improved. (Also, he told me that his sisters gave him some money but had turned him down when he asked for more, he then asked me for $20-$30, which I thought was in bad taste so I said no, my refusal and his lack of money didn’t seem to bother him very much.) He e-mailed me back saying that he agreed we should wait until he had more money, but then he said I was the most important thing in his life and he didn’t want to lose me. At first, I was flattered, but then I really thought about what he said. How could I be the most important thing in his life when he barely talks to me and he’s living with another woman? It defied all logic. If I saw red flags before, I was hearing sirens now, too.
Break-up e-mail
After a lot of deliberation, I sent him an e-mail (we rarely spoke on the phone, which also bothered me, if he liked me so much, wouldn’t he want to talk to me more often?) telling him I wanted an actual boyfriend, I felt like I was being used, and that being with me would not fix the problems he has with M. I was harsh, but I told the truth. I had hoped he would apologize and we could go back to being friends, or at least end on good terms. A few hours later I get an e-mail from M, telling me that they had been together for over ten years (he never told me that), that she loves him (he told me that they were together mostly to split cost of living, and that he thought no one cared about him) and that our friends with benefits relationship never happened, because if it did ‘he would have told me.’
I was devastated. He had lied to me and to the woman he presumably loves and has been with for over a decade. I have tried to piece together what may have happened. From what M wrote, he probably read my e-mail, and he was afraid I would tell M what we did (I never would have told her, he made me think she was a bad person), he most likely told her I had a ‘crazy idea’ that we had had sex, and that I wanted them to break up. He probably made me sound delusional. Maybe he even suggested that she write me an e-mail to ‘set me straight.’ She ended her e-mail with ‘If you want a boyfriend, I suggest you find someone single.’ I never replied to her, but I did send him another e-mail that said I was removing him from my facebook profile and blocking his e-mail. I haven’t contacted him since, and he hasn’t tried to talk to me.
The girlfriend didn’t know
It was at this point that I realized that M had no idea that L had visited me many times at my house. She thinks we only went to dinner once or twice and went for a few walks. I also realized that I thought M was a horrible person based on what L told me. I once went to their apartment and while he was in another room taking a phone call, she showed me family pictures; it seemed like she really loves and cares about L and his family. L once told me he thought M and I were a lot alike. He cited our love for animals, but I think it was really because we’re both nice, decent girls with shaky self-esteem, and he thought he could use me for sex, and he uses M because she gives him some semblance of a normal family life, and does things like cook for him.
I don’t know how much he even liked me, I think he got off on the thrill of deceiving M, and he thought I would be a willing partner because I like to believe I’m a free thinker and being in an open relationship intrigued me. Although I was raw for about a week, and I wondered if he had lied to me about everything (did he really think I was beautiful?), talking to my friends about what happened has helped me a lot. My roommate has since told that me he never liked L, because when they spoke he thought L was subtly trying to bend him to his will, and he reminded him of his ex, who was abusive and had tried to kill him. It was then that I started thinking that L was a psychopath, and I found the Love Fraud website. I’m not sure if L is a total psychopath, but his ability to lie to his long-time girlfriend and using her to hurt me makes me think he has enough of those awful traits to be dangerous.
I realize that I loved L, but actually, I loved a fantasy; a sweet man caught in an open but troubled relationship he felt he couldn’t leave, and he made me feel like I was wonderful for showing him so much affection and understanding. I am getting over the illusion, but I worry about M, who is still trapped in his dreamland. Maybe she really is rotten, and maybe they deserve each other, but I can’t imagine what he’s done to her over the years. I believe he played the ‘wounded bird’ routine with me when it is really M who is abused in the relationship.
I worry he might try to hurt her, or someone else he gets involved with. I want to contact her to tell her my side of the story, but I know she will only think that I’m crazy, and if she questions him, he’ll twist my words around to his benefit. I’m trying hard to let that urge to contact her go. Unfortunately, she will have to figure it out for herself, because psychopaths are good liars, but they’re not that good. His mask will slip eventually. I don’t worry that he will contact me again, as other psychopathic exes on this site have done, because he knows that I can no longer be manipulated. I’m sure he has moved on and doesn’t even think about me.
Psychopathy
The funny/sad thing is that I have a degree in psychology, and I specialized in abnormal psychology. I’ve read a great deal of the literature on psychopathy, and one of my professors even worked with Dr. Robert Hare. I was fooled, and I feel foolish. Despite friends who know both L and I telling me it was a bad idea to go out with him, despite knowing he had hit on other girls, I went out with him anyway. L seemed so sincere, but the more I thought about the odd intensity of his words and actions, and how they didn’t match up, something told me it wasn’t right. I could never get those little red flags to stop waving in my head. But I think I had to figure that out for myself.
I consider myself lucky that I was the ‘Other Woman’ and not in M’s position; I couldn’t imagine ten years with him. I hope M finds peace and happiness, and as for L, I don’t think he will ever know what love feels like, because psychopaths are a different species. I don’t think they are completely human. Some people on this website describe them as ‘broken,’ but psychopaths were never functioning to begin with. They can’t change, but we can teach ourselves and others their tricks and avoid them as much as possible, and that’s empowering.
I’m sure that there are other psychopaths who are using the open relationship model to lure partners who could never be with a cheater. An open relationship is a perfect cover for a psychopath; because often, the secondary partner isn’t integrated into their lives like the primary partner is, and their family and friends often don’t know it’s open. L’s family didn’t know, and although I wanted to meet his family and friends and vice versa, I knew I couldn’t as the secondary partner. If I had, maybe I would have figured out something was wrong, sooner.
In hindsight, I should have never have taken L’s word that M was okay with an open relationship, I should have asked her directly (as awkward as that would have been), but I’m sure he would have made an excuse as to why she didn’t want to talk about it. I came out of the ‘relationship’ with L relatively unscathed, and what I have taken away from my experience is: don’t feel bad for trusting people every once in a while. We’ve all trusted people before and it turned out well, and it will again. I’m not jaded, but I’m definitely wiser. I think these lyrics sum up my experience best:
I’m just another john you gypped
another sucker stiffed
A walk on role in the script
to your long, long grift
The love that had me in your grip
was just a long, long grift
“Long Grift,” from Hedwig and the Angry Inch
Learn more: Survivor’s guide to healthy people and healthy relationships
Lovefraud originally posted this story on July 10, 2010.
LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Lost and really need help
Hi OxDrover,
I’m pretty sure the threesomes happen. I’m also fairly certain that they happened with women and men (which supports the idea that psychopaths will have sex with almost anyone that crosses their path). I will never forget the time I went to their apartment. He ogled me while she cooked us dinner (!). The next day, I told another work friend that it ‘felt weird.’ She looked at me and said “They’re swingers, you know.” I’ve heard that from other people, too. What he does is make it seem like it’s her idea, but she’s too shy to initiate, so he does all the asking. I don’t judge people who have group sex, but the way he goes about it, and why he does it, is wrong. I’m also pretty certain M is a lesbian. Maybe having threesomes is his way of controlling her, like “The only way you can get a woman is if I bring one to you, and you let me join in.” Ugh, so slimy!
I know intellectually that it was a long con, OxDrover, I just don’t want to believe someone would treat another person like that, patiently waiting for their victim to fall into their trap. Every day the truth sinks in a little deeper, I take my experience less personally, and I can feel myself getting a little stronger. Thank you, everyone, again!
Heather
Hi OxDrover,
I’m pretty sure the threesomes happen. I’m also fairly certain that they happen with women and men (which supports the idea that psychopaths will have sex with almost anyone that crosses their path). I will never forget the time I went to their apartment. He ogled me while she cooked us dinner (!). The next day, I told another work friend that it ‘felt weird.’ She looked at me and said “They’re swingers, you know.” I’ve heard that from other people, too. What he does is make it seem like it’s her idea, but she’s too shy to initiate, so he does all the asking. I don’t judge people who have group sex, but the way he goes about it, and why he does it, is wrong. I’m also pretty certain M is a lesbian. Maybe having threesomes is his way of controlling her, like “The only way you can get a woman is if I bring one to you, and you let me join in.” Ugh, so slimy!
I know intellectually that it was a long con, OxDrover, I just don’t want to believe someone would treat another person like that, patiently waiting for their victim to fall into their trap. But every day the truth sinks in a little deeper, I take my experience less personally, and I can feel myself getting a little stronger. Thank you, everyone, again!
Heather
Dear Heather,
Well, maybe I am a “judgmental old biddy” but I DO “judge” people who have any kind of sex that there is no BONDING with that is just “animal sex” if you will. TO ME (IMHO) sex which releases oxytocin the bonding hormone in normal people, but not a bonding feeling in Ps, should be a “bonding ritual” between people who truly CARE about each other.
I think because they don’t BOND with others, to Ps the sex is just an animal, purely physical “pleasure” that must be “upped” in intensity or diversity in order to be exciting. Normal or regular sex becomes “boring” to them. I also think that some how they seem to know that generally non Ps seem to get some kind of pleasure out of sex that THEY don’t get, so each new partner they have for a short time is exciting, but they soon bore with each new partner and seekk another one, each time thinking “this time will be IT”—of course it never is. The release of Oxytocin produces a feeling in normal people after sex, or giving birth, or nursing a child (all of which release this bonding hormone) that the psychopath doesn’t get—a PLEASURE they cannot appreciate, but I think the intuit that WE do get some pleasure they can’t seem to grasp.
I’m no sexual prude (I grew up in California in the 60s as a young adult) but I have now in my old age and dotage (I’m 63) come to see sex as more than just immediate pleasure like eating a good meal, and see it as a “bonding ritual” that I now will reserve for a committed relationship (to say nothing of cutting down on the risk of STDs, some of which –besides HIV–cause deadly consequences.)
Almost every P that I have known enough about to know their sexual habits has been promiscious to the N-th degree with “anything that would stand still.” So I see that as a RED FLAG with them. Of course not everyone who “doesn’t wait til marriage’ is a P of course, but the VERY “busy” ones with many many indiscriminate partners tend to be, I think Ps.
It also isn’t unusual for a couple who are “swingers” to A) both be Ps, or B) for one to be “forced” into this by the onen partner who IS A P and feel it is the only way to retain the relationship.
ps Healther, I am NOT condemning YOU in this above post, but HIM. I am fairly open minded believe it or not, just trying not to be “so open minded my BRAINS FALL OUT” which I admit in the past I have been so “open minded” my own brains fell out and hit the floor. I hope I am learning a few things as I go along. Now I require HONESTY and compassion, and caring from those close to me. LOL
HeatherA;
After Jamie told me he only wanted to be friends, for a couple of weeks I remained in contact with him for a couple of weeks. My last email to him was never intended to be my last, but then the “revelations.”
I was very sick and in no condition to be going out, so I was looking at online dating websites, something I never did much of. A friend recommended this one relatively mainstream website as being for serious dating, not sexual hookups that are typical of most gay websites. That’s where I found Jamie’s profile.
For “matching” purposes, this website uses questions and various tests to “profile” users. I created a profile, answered about 100 questions and completed several tests. I pressed the “match” button and began paging through the results. I saw this one guy that looked like Jamie, but kept going because he looked so young. Something made me go back and when I looked at this guy’s profile I realized it was his.
Finding his profile was actually worse than when he told me he only wanted to be friends. Obviously, it meant he was actively pursing other people. I was also shocked that his profile was very juvenile, more like that of a teenager than a 30-something man. But this was consistent with his profile name “…boy25″ and his picture, one in which he appeared around 25, something he could hardly pull off in person…
I was hurt because we ‘matched” so highly. I was very hurt that as I looked at the questions he answered and the tests he took, there was much about him he was hiding. In fact, I learned more about him from his profile than I did from him in person. This angered me too, I only wish I could have stayed angered.
Something did not add up. In addition, something seemed familiar about “…boy25” so I Googled it and found an active Xtube profile that contained a video of him masturbating (trust me, he is no porn star) and link to a video of guys performing bareback sex. At this point, things clicked and I realized Jamie is HIV+, Thankfully, we did not have sex as we both agreed to “take things slow.”
Googling also revealed a mainstream gay website on which Jamie also had a profile. This one I saw about 6 months before I met him in person. In fact, I had made him one of my “favorites” although I never contacted him.
Hi Oxdrover and behind_blue_eyes,
Oxdrover, I absolutely agree about the role oxytocin plays in bonding and love. That was one reason I broke it off with L, it was so painful when he left me after we were intimate (well, I was intimate, at least). I know you’re not condemning me, I’m just putting the facts out there for myself more than anything else. Plus, I have realized that I will have to get tested for STIs. I asked him if he had any, he said no, that he uses protection. But he lied about other things, maybe he was lying about that, too. Only one way to find out.
behind_blue_eyes, that’s strange that your profiles would match. It sounds like he’s no longer a part of your life, thank goodness!
Thanks,
Heather
Hi Violet Heather,
My X was the original GOOD GUY. He was sweet, gentle, caring and told me how much he loved me every day. In over a decade we rarely left a room without a kiss. We were always touching and cuddling. He was never, ever violent and rarely got angry or raised his voice. He didn’t need to. Over time, and I mean years, he slowly groomed me into thinking I couldn’t live without him.
I was suffering from some condition that was slowly killing me. X was at first very active in helping me look for solutions, I loved that he was so supportive, unlike the other men in my life. Gee, he must really love me!
I adored his mother and sister, and I think they loved me in return. For the first time, I was part of a loving, functional family. What a package deal. Of course they didn’t live close and we moved away from all my friends to follow his (part-time) job….
I no longer had friends that visited me, just ones on the internet. I was too sick to go out. We lived way out in the country. I became more and more ill and isolated. I’m hearing impaired and it got so talking on the phone was a major stress for me. He also drugged me so I couldn’t leave the house or talk to people.
Only my friends on the internet who couldn’t be charmed by him saw the real picture. They tried to warn me, but even when I had to agree he was messing up my medications so much it was causing me severe problems, I passed it off as accidental. After all, he was beginning to act oddly himself. I was worried about HIS health. Underneath I saw those blood red flags waving wildly, but I was totally dependent on him so I ignored them. I told him I would be responsible for getting my pills from now on and I was changing pharmacies. I had no idea how, but I knew going through constant withdrawals were going to kill me. I had no idea how close I was to death. I could only walk by leaning on the walls. Within three days he was gone.
It still took me the better part of a week to believe he was causing my illness. Even then I thought he couldn’t possibly be doing it consciously. Not MURDER. He was so non-violent…so gentle always….always held me when I cried in agony….
I was M. No three way sexual games, but he was having an on-line affair with a woman dying of cancer. His excuse? “it doesn’t matter anyway, she’ll be dead before the end of the year” I would have been too. I didn’t matter either.
When confronted with the affair he went ballistic, so crazy and yelling that I suddenly realized I was dealing with someone dangerous. After that I never confronted him directly again.
His mother died the day before he left me, hence the timing of his leaving.He didn’t tell me. He told everyone I kicked him out. I didn’t, but I was glad he was out. He now owned a house with his sister. She had warned me about him, but she had changed towards me too, said things that made no sense, so he had been lying, setting the groundwork there too. How could I warn her he was dangerous? Her little brother! She knew about his temper, but not about the poisoning. Then he suddenly left town and enrolled in chefs school. Where did he get the money? Oh yeah, “our” savings. He left me nothing.
I still worry about his sister, but don’t see how I can warn her. Then I worried he’d have an off day and poison everyone at a banquet just for the feeling of power. It’s all about show and control for him. Ultimately I can do nothing. My doctor knows the truth, but we can’t prove it. Contacting his sister would put her in danger and might set him after my family and friends even if she believed me. What could she do anyway?
Any time I’ve been told by a guy that he has an open relationship and his wife/girlfriend doesn’t mind I’ve always responded with “Wow she sounds great! I can hardly wait to meet her and get her approval in person.” No one has taken me up on that.
I don’t think it’s strange their profiles matched. I’ve been working against the email scammers and they know exactly what kind of person they want to target and write their profiles to attract them. When I first signed on to a on line dating service, my profile was so sad and pathetic that within three days I’d hooked another sociopath. I’d just learned enough to recognize the signs so I responded a few times to see what happened. He was so text book it was scary. I checked him out and some parts of his story did match up, but he could have just lifted the name. We didn’t agree on some little matter and the next thing I knew he was throwing a major tantrum. I told him to never contact me again. He apologized but said it was my fault also. (I liked Elton John. He didn’t) I blocked him but the violence of his response was scary, and he totally ignored my “Do not contact me ever again.” request. Typical.
Romantic fool!!!! TOWANDA SISTER!!!!! I totally agree, if you are going to have an “open” relationship, make sure you meet the OTHER PARTY TO THIS! LOL baw hahahahaha!!! ROTFLMAO!!! I bet none of them took you up on it! Most of the “open” relationships I have known about are all fantasies of the men who are LYING ABOUT IT!!! It is only open on ONE end!
The STD thing is something I am also concerned about too. As a health care professional (retired) part of my job once was teaching Sexual health classes to college students so I had to learn ALL about it myself first, and boy oh boy did I find out some things that were INTERESTING! And mostly that there is a LOT of stuff out there that will kill you and nothing will fix, or it sure isn’t isn’t an easy fix even if possible, and the last research I read about6 HIV is while they CAN clear it pretty much out of the blood with drugs, they can’t clear it out of the BRAIN and nervous system once it is in there which is usually one of the earlier places it goes….(this research may be out dated though as it is changing rapidly)…but there are plenty of people who will KNOWINGLY LIE about their HIV status or they honestly don’t know what STDs they have or CARE if they give them to you!
As far as internet dating sites—TOOO SCARY FOR ME, WAY TOO EASY FOR PSYCHOPATHS TO TROLL….and too many horror stories of friends and my son C who hooked up with Ps and got SCAMMED. My son C’s P even eventually tried to kill him, a friend’s P “wife” (marriage lasted 3 days) went back to her place of residence and opened like 30 charge accounts in his name and SS#—he still hasn’t years later got all that straight. I could tell more horror stories but you get the drift. It is difficult to tell too, especially when there is a LONG DISTANCE relationship.
I would never ever even consider dating someone for very long before having a full professional back ground check, or date someone more than 1/2 hour away. And at the FIRST SIGN of a RED FLAG, I’m gone…..NO SECOND CHANCES.
OxDrover;
I do agree with you but in slightly different terms. They do prefer the thrill of the chase, I just don’t think the thrill comes from the con.
I was not head over heals for Jamie. I liked him, he was attractive, albeit a little rough around the edges and he was charming, but quiet. Early on, pursued me and it seems that as soon as I showed real interest in him he backed off, then upped the charm. Very much two steps forward, one back.
Very telling was what he said when he walked out of Raoul’s Restaurant on me, just after I asked him if he wanted to go back to my place: “you are too intense for me, and I don’t like that Alex guy.” Alex was the guy I dated before Jamie that apparently was too close for comfort.
So, at that moment in time, Jamie was obviously very interested in me. That did not last long as is typical with a sociopath. I do not remember any sense of him enjoying a con. Actually, I remember the opposite, that he often seemed nervous. In retrospect, I realize this was due to the HIV issue being present, but never discussed.