Editor’s note: The following story was received from a reader whom we’ll call “Violet” about her experience with a long grift, not of money, but of intimacy.
I knew L when we worked together at a call centre as customer service representatives. He seemed nice, and he had lovely, expressive brown eyes and a gentle nature. I was losing weight at the time, and he asked for my help, so of course I gave him advice and tips. He began to lose weight, and he invited me over to his and his girlfriend, M’s, apartment for dinner and to show him some ‘exercise moves’ (now I think it was mostly an excuse to ogle me). He looked at me very intently, it wasn’t menacing, but I definitely felt like he wanted to do more than just watch me.
At work he would call me over sometimes and tell me that he thought of me as a ‘really good friend.’ I would thank him, but I thought it was a strange thing to say because we didn’t know each other very well. The call centre was a gossip mill, and someone had told me that L and his girlfriend were into threesomes. That’s not my thing, but I don’t judge, and I didn’t think much of it at the time. I also got in touch with an old friend that had known L and M at another call centre. She told me that L had asked her to be in a threesome. She politely declined, but the incident got him fired (he eventually told me this). Again, I didn’t think much about it, but I did think that it was a bit careless to ask a co-worker to have sex with you and your girlfriend, to say the least.
I left work to go back to school, and I would get e-mails from him every so often. I would send a polite reply. Last year, he and his girlfriend moved to my city so she could go to school, and L and I went out for dinner. It was at this time that I realized that he liked me as more than a friend, so I decided to find out what kind of relationship he had with M. He told me it was open, and that M said that he could do whatever he wanted as long as he never left her. That didn’t seem very open to me, but I figured it was an arrangement that worked for them.
Friends with benefits
He said he wanted a ‘friends with benefits’ relationship with me. But he would lay on the sweet talk really thick. He would say I was a beautiful white dove with eyes of light, that when he thought about me he didn’t want a cigarette, I was a copy of Eve, I was Aphrodite, I was even an angel. But we still didn’t know each other that well, and his compliments were too dime store romance novel for my taste, although they made me feel good about myself.
Read more: Why sociopaths cheat
I tried to get to know him better. I knew that his father had died, but he didn’t talk about him much, which I found odd, but I chalked it up to masculine reserve (we always find an excuse, don’t we?). He had wanted to be a minister, and had been in a Master’s program, but he gave me a vague answer about why he dropped out. I thought it was strange that someone who desired a religious vocation would be content drifting to various call centre jobs for the past ten years. He also never had any ideas for activities, I always had to make suggestions, and it seemed like he relied on other people for entertainment because he didn’t know how to entertain himself. It was as if he had no inner life.
He would also look at me with such (I thought at the time) longing it was unnerving, but now I think it was also a predatory gaze. At one point the sweet talk was too intense and I told him to tone it down. He seemed so sad after that, he said he was patient, but he said he was patient a lot, and that bothered me. He was always online and he messaged me constantly to see how I was doing. There were red flags waving at me, but I thought he was very sweet and attentive, and he seemed like he desperately needed a friend and some affection. Once I decided I could ignore his lack of ambition and it was only a friends with benefits relationship that wasn’t going to go anywhere anyway, I let him know that I wanted to be intimate with him. That part was very nice (I’ve noticed that other writers on the site mention that the sex is often good). Our sexual relationship lasted for three months.
Open relationship?
L seemed to really like me, but he could only see me when M was away, he told me she was seeing her girlfriend on the side (she was bisexual, he said). If it was really open, I wondered, then why can he only see me when she’s somewhere else? The only time L spent the night with me was a weekend M was away. He spent one night at my house, and he didn’t call her, she thought he had died, he told me. The next night, I went to their apartment and L called her while I was there, but he didn’t mention that I was in the apartment with him. He wanted me to sleep with him in their bed.
By this time he had started complaining to me about M, and I was beginning to hate her (I never thought that way about her before, she seemed nice, but very depressed). But I couldn’t sleep in their bed, it seemed like too great a violation of their relationship, so I made an excuse and left. I think that he didn’t want to be alone when M was gone, and any warm body would do. Once we started having sex, L talked to me online less and less, sometimes just sending a ‘check-in’ e-mail. I felt like I was being used, that I was giving him something M couldn’t, because he told me they hadn’t had sex in a long time. That didn’t bother me much until I realized I wanted an actual boyfriend, and it couldn’t be him because he would never leave M, and we weren’t compatible anyway.
At this time I made plans to meet him but he couldn’t because he was in a tight financial spot, so I said we shouldn’t make plans until his money situation improved. (Also, he told me that his sisters gave him some money but had turned him down when he asked for more, he then asked me for $20-$30, which I thought was in bad taste so I said no, my refusal and his lack of money didn’t seem to bother him very much.) He e-mailed me back saying that he agreed we should wait until he had more money, but then he said I was the most important thing in his life and he didn’t want to lose me. At first, I was flattered, but then I really thought about what he said. How could I be the most important thing in his life when he barely talks to me and he’s living with another woman? It defied all logic. If I saw red flags before, I was hearing sirens now, too.
Break-up e-mail
After a lot of deliberation, I sent him an e-mail (we rarely spoke on the phone, which also bothered me, if he liked me so much, wouldn’t he want to talk to me more often?) telling him I wanted an actual boyfriend, I felt like I was being used, and that being with me would not fix the problems he has with M. I was harsh, but I told the truth. I had hoped he would apologize and we could go back to being friends, or at least end on good terms. A few hours later I get an e-mail from M, telling me that they had been together for over ten years (he never told me that), that she loves him (he told me that they were together mostly to split cost of living, and that he thought no one cared about him) and that our friends with benefits relationship never happened, because if it did ‘he would have told me.’
I was devastated. He had lied to me and to the woman he presumably loves and has been with for over a decade. I have tried to piece together what may have happened. From what M wrote, he probably read my e-mail, and he was afraid I would tell M what we did (I never would have told her, he made me think she was a bad person), he most likely told her I had a ‘crazy idea’ that we had had sex, and that I wanted them to break up. He probably made me sound delusional. Maybe he even suggested that she write me an e-mail to ‘set me straight.’ She ended her e-mail with ‘If you want a boyfriend, I suggest you find someone single.’ I never replied to her, but I did send him another e-mail that said I was removing him from my facebook profile and blocking his e-mail. I haven’t contacted him since, and he hasn’t tried to talk to me.
The girlfriend didn’t know
It was at this point that I realized that M had no idea that L had visited me many times at my house. She thinks we only went to dinner once or twice and went for a few walks. I also realized that I thought M was a horrible person based on what L told me. I once went to their apartment and while he was in another room taking a phone call, she showed me family pictures; it seemed like she really loves and cares about L and his family. L once told me he thought M and I were a lot alike. He cited our love for animals, but I think it was really because we’re both nice, decent girls with shaky self-esteem, and he thought he could use me for sex, and he uses M because she gives him some semblance of a normal family life, and does things like cook for him.
I don’t know how much he even liked me, I think he got off on the thrill of deceiving M, and he thought I would be a willing partner because I like to believe I’m a free thinker and being in an open relationship intrigued me. Although I was raw for about a week, and I wondered if he had lied to me about everything (did he really think I was beautiful?), talking to my friends about what happened has helped me a lot. My roommate has since told that me he never liked L, because when they spoke he thought L was subtly trying to bend him to his will, and he reminded him of his ex, who was abusive and had tried to kill him. It was then that I started thinking that L was a psychopath, and I found the Love Fraud website. I’m not sure if L is a total psychopath, but his ability to lie to his long-time girlfriend and using her to hurt me makes me think he has enough of those awful traits to be dangerous.
I realize that I loved L, but actually, I loved a fantasy; a sweet man caught in an open but troubled relationship he felt he couldn’t leave, and he made me feel like I was wonderful for showing him so much affection and understanding. I am getting over the illusion, but I worry about M, who is still trapped in his dreamland. Maybe she really is rotten, and maybe they deserve each other, but I can’t imagine what he’s done to her over the years. I believe he played the ‘wounded bird’ routine with me when it is really M who is abused in the relationship.
I worry he might try to hurt her, or someone else he gets involved with. I want to contact her to tell her my side of the story, but I know she will only think that I’m crazy, and if she questions him, he’ll twist my words around to his benefit. I’m trying hard to let that urge to contact her go. Unfortunately, she will have to figure it out for herself, because psychopaths are good liars, but they’re not that good. His mask will slip eventually. I don’t worry that he will contact me again, as other psychopathic exes on this site have done, because he knows that I can no longer be manipulated. I’m sure he has moved on and doesn’t even think about me.
Psychopathy
The funny/sad thing is that I have a degree in psychology, and I specialized in abnormal psychology. I’ve read a great deal of the literature on psychopathy, and one of my professors even worked with Dr. Robert Hare. I was fooled, and I feel foolish. Despite friends who know both L and I telling me it was a bad idea to go out with him, despite knowing he had hit on other girls, I went out with him anyway. L seemed so sincere, but the more I thought about the odd intensity of his words and actions, and how they didn’t match up, something told me it wasn’t right. I could never get those little red flags to stop waving in my head. But I think I had to figure that out for myself.
I consider myself lucky that I was the ‘Other Woman’ and not in M’s position; I couldn’t imagine ten years with him. I hope M finds peace and happiness, and as for L, I don’t think he will ever know what love feels like, because psychopaths are a different species. I don’t think they are completely human. Some people on this website describe them as ‘broken,’ but psychopaths were never functioning to begin with. They can’t change, but we can teach ourselves and others their tricks and avoid them as much as possible, and that’s empowering.
I’m sure that there are other psychopaths who are using the open relationship model to lure partners who could never be with a cheater. An open relationship is a perfect cover for a psychopath; because often, the secondary partner isn’t integrated into their lives like the primary partner is, and their family and friends often don’t know it’s open. L’s family didn’t know, and although I wanted to meet his family and friends and vice versa, I knew I couldn’t as the secondary partner. If I had, maybe I would have figured out something was wrong, sooner.
In hindsight, I should have never have taken L’s word that M was okay with an open relationship, I should have asked her directly (as awkward as that would have been), but I’m sure he would have made an excuse as to why she didn’t want to talk about it. I came out of the ‘relationship’ with L relatively unscathed, and what I have taken away from my experience is: don’t feel bad for trusting people every once in a while. We’ve all trusted people before and it turned out well, and it will again. I’m not jaded, but I’m definitely wiser. I think these lyrics sum up my experience best:
I’m just another john you gypped
another sucker stiffed
A walk on role in the script
to your long, long grift
The love that had me in your grip
was just a long, long grift
“Long Grift,” from Hedwig and the Angry Inch
Learn more: Survivor’s guide to healthy people and healthy relationships
Lovefraud originally posted this story on July 10, 2010.
Dear Heather, Please don’t give yourself a hard time for not seeing him immediately for what he is. We all WANT to believe this kind of person is real, which is why we refuse to believe all those warnings. I also believed that somehow I could be the one to tame this particular beast. Arrogant thinking on my part to be sure! The reality is, they are GOOD, just really, really good at what they do and they can, and do, full anyone and everyone. I too, am glad you were the “other woman” and not her in this case. I wasted 10 yrs. in the ex spath, not all of that time together but it took 10 yrs. for me to get it. I was very hard on myself for a long time and today my attitude is that it takes what it takes for each of us and someday all of us will GET IT.
Ox, I am also terrified of dating sites. I know that my sister met a man several years ago whom she is still with and he is truly a great guy. I also think those are one in a million. I want to take some more time to heal and learn because as they say, “My picker’s broken.” I sure could pick em’ and did! The wrong ones, of course! I just am not willing to take that chance right now. Agree with the background check…
Hugs,
Cat
Dear Blue eyes,
I’m not sure if you have had relationships with other psychopaths, they are NOT all “identical” but if you will read Dr. Hare’s book “Without Conscience” you will see that many of them enjoy the CON itself more than winning. So Jamie may not have either been as transparent as some of them are, or he may not actually have enjoyed the con itself, but with his profile that you posted and the younger picture etc. I think he probably did, he sure had enough of the conning tools out there (profiles etc)
I know one thing, if he was a psychopath (and I think me was definitely high in the traits) he would not have cared a damn if he gave you HIV or not. Some of them actually get off on giving you HIV—like the creep in Texas that infected at least 6 women while having “exclusive relationships” with multiple women at the same time. That’s the scary part about them.
I think you still may be giving him too much credit for a “give a chit factor” We tend to do this because WE give a chit, so we project our own feelins on to them. Took me decades to catch on to that! MY BAD–thinking they cared! DUH!!!! Live and learn.
BehindBlueEyes:
I wonder what Jamie’s attitude toward your relationship would have been like if he had NOT been HIV+.
I wonder if he would have still been so introverted.
I wonder how much of his behavior towards you was actually Jamie, and how much was the HIV issue holding him back.
But, if Jamie is a socio, then I guess it’s all a lie, right?
I’m sure you have gone over these things in your own mind a million times.
Jamie is a very interesting case, for sure.
Hi all,
I got a reply from Dr. Steve Porter. He told me what I needed to know: that I have no legal responsibility to warn M. Whew!
I also asked him this question:
Where does ‘jerk’ end and ‘psychopath’ begin? I started to think he just has poor social skills, and lots of men cheat, but there was an odd intensity, a blankness to him (he seemed to have no inner life) that makes me think it’s not just typical jerk behavior.
He replied:
Good question – most “jerks” are not psychopaths. But guys who are emotionally distant, manipulative, and use women for their advantage only may be psychopathic. Without knowing more about your ex-partner, I can’t [know one] way for sure, but there is clearly a possibility.
He’s right, only the PCL-R can ‘truly’ give you a diagnosis of psychopathy, but I think everyone here knows they what they were dealing with. I also heard from another friend yesterday that he aggressively pursued her sister while they were in university, she did not respond and was thoroughly creeped out.
Thanks again!
Heather
Dear Heather,
Glad that you got that response and really, what difference would it make whether he scored 25, 29 or 30 on the PCL-R? The “normal person score” is 4-5 so you know he is ‘HIGH IN TRAITS,” whether he makes the cut off or not, he is TOXIC and sure not someone you want to spend your life with.
That’s the thing we have to realize I think, even if there is not a “clinical diagnosis” that you could go to court with (few of us have those) it doesn’t make any difference, they are TOXIC and not someone we want to be around, to associate with and SURE NOT TO TRUST!
So we don’t have to keep wondering if we “misjudged” or “harshly judged” him, it is enough to know he is POISON. We don’t have to analyze the % of the poison, or the particular molecular weight of the poison, this is not CSI, we don’t care all about all t hose things, all we need to know is that if we stay around him WE WILL DIE because he is POISON to our health, to our happiness, to our lives.
That’s enough information and we don’t have to convince a jury of his peers,. we only have to RECOGTNIZE THIS OURSELVES, we are the AUTHORITY, all the authority we need. WE make our own decisions. WE ARE OUR own witnesses, judges and jury. Now that’s power!
Oxdrover;
I was in another similar short-term relationship with another guy who exhibited some sociopathic traits. This guy was bisexual and controlling. While dating a woman, he was “allowed” see have sex with other men. She, of course, had to remain monogamous to him. Looking back, Paul seems to enjoy being manipulative and controlling, I did not get that sense from Jamie, but his very unassuming demeanor may have hidden his true nature.
Regarding his profile, I flip between viewing it as a con and something truly sad. Being hard on him, it is a con and predatory. As I have said, Jamie is still an attractive person, he simply looks about his age, and he has no need to post a picture implying otherwise.
The sad side is that Jamie has some lipoatrophy. He probably was very young looking until maybe 5 years ago, when medication side effects began to age him. Losing your appearance is devastating for a gay man and this was a great source of my empathy to him.
Blue, I think you need to realize this guy doesn’t need empathy or pity or anything else, he is a predator—-I think you are “petting the snake” and wanting to have it grow hair and become a puppy! It ain’t gonna do it. YOu seem to keep coming up with EXCUSES why Jamie isn’t as much a monster are the rest of the Ps we know—but he IS. No matter how self effacing or quiet he was–but you also told how he demeaned your small Christmas tree etc. the guy was a creep! So your home work tonight is to sit down and write 50 nasty things about Jamie—and I bet you could find more! LOL (((hugs)))) How’s your cardfiac rehab going? Heart ticking along okay!? How so!
Hi behind_blue_eyes,
My psychopath, L, was quiet and assuming, like Jamie, that’s why I had such a hard time figuring out what was ‘off’, because he seemed so sweet! He also let me think I was the one calling the shots, I noticed that when he was with M, too. He seemed very deferential to her, but with psychopaths, the benevolence is actually malevolent, they only do it to get what they want. I’m wondering, did Jamie have a lot of friends or acquaintances (L doesn’t)? Maybe the ‘nice’ ones have fewer, because it must be exhausting to wear that mask for a lot of people.
OxDrover,
I do keep wondering if I was wrong. Maybe he just reacted like any cheating man would, maybe I really hurt his feelings, maybe he is a good man with M. But then I think “Really? Your instinct, and all your friends, say otherwise.” I am quietly gathering some information on him (like the info from my friend’s sister) but really, I have my own gut reaction, what more do I need? I guess it’s the psych major in me, I need to gather as much data as possible.
Thanks,
Heather
HeatherA, if anyone goes out of their way to hurt you during a relationship, or not communicate with you, you are being screwed over. Period. Everyone knows by the time they are teenagers how to act around someone they want in their life. No excuses for anyone that wants to treat another disrespectfully. Look at dating or relationships this way … Would you go out of your way to hurt the person your are interested in? If you wouldn’t do it. Why would you allow someone else to do it to you!!
Peace.
I had some bad dreams that the Spath and his OW (who I am sure heard lines much like those above) could even change the weather from 78 degrees and sunny to 15 below zero within seconds. They could make the trunk of my car break, and kidnap our son.
At one point I found Spath sleeping next to me and found myself very angry at him and telling him what a pervert he was, but I didn’t say much because I realized it was only making me more angry and I stopped.
Trying to reason, or even just tell a Spath why he is wrong or how mean and irrational he is, is not only wasting your breath, but it leaves you open to MORE HURT.
‘A dream is telling you this?’ you ask.
No. The dream simply brought back all the hurt and frustration I was dealing with when he was trying to place all the blame for the destruction of our marriage on me, even down to it being my fault he cheated.
I digress;
Not only will you be hurt by the Spath, by trying to speak to him as though he were “normal”, it will also tell the Spath, where he has gotten to you, what is precious to you etc… more ammunition to further hurt you with.
NO CONTACT is the only way!
Back in May my Spath wanted to go to mediation (9 months after I served him).
My intuition said ‘no way’, but my attorney suggested I try because he might be rational in front of a third party.
NOPE.
But what he DID get was one-on-one time with me, that he had not gotten since Nov. when I got an order limiting our communication (obviously N/C is not possible as parents). He found out from what I said to the mediator that something bugged me…so you know what, he has done it purposely since then.
So in the end, he got what he truly wanted, not mediation, but reward and more fodder.
I had to hit myself with the cyber-skillet for that one.
Intuition DOES exist, and must not be ignored.