Editor’s note: The following story was received from a reader whom we’ll call “Violet” about her experience with a long grift, not of money, but of intimacy.
I knew L when we worked together at a call centre as customer service representatives. He seemed nice, and he had lovely, expressive brown eyes and a gentle nature. I was losing weight at the time, and he asked for my help, so of course I gave him advice and tips. He began to lose weight, and he invited me over to his and his girlfriend, M’s, apartment for dinner and to show him some ‘exercise moves’ (now I think it was mostly an excuse to ogle me). He looked at me very intently, it wasn’t menacing, but I definitely felt like he wanted to do more than just watch me.
At work he would call me over sometimes and tell me that he thought of me as a ‘really good friend.’ I would thank him, but I thought it was a strange thing to say because we didn’t know each other very well. The call centre was a gossip mill, and someone had told me that L and his girlfriend were into threesomes. That’s not my thing, but I don’t judge, and I didn’t think much of it at the time. I also got in touch with an old friend that had known L and M at another call centre. She told me that L had asked her to be in a threesome. She politely declined, but the incident got him fired (he eventually told me this). Again, I didn’t think much about it, but I did think that it was a bit careless to ask a co-worker to have sex with you and your girlfriend, to say the least.
I left work to go back to school, and I would get e-mails from him every so often. I would send a polite reply. Last year, he and his girlfriend moved to my city so she could go to school, and L and I went out for dinner. It was at this time that I realized that he liked me as more than a friend, so I decided to find out what kind of relationship he had with M. He told me it was open, and that M said that he could do whatever he wanted as long as he never left her. That didn’t seem very open to me, but I figured it was an arrangement that worked for them.
Friends with benefits
He said he wanted a ‘friends with benefits’ relationship with me. But he would lay on the sweet talk really thick. He would say I was a beautiful white dove with eyes of light, that when he thought about me he didn’t want a cigarette, I was a copy of Eve, I was Aphrodite, I was even an angel. But we still didn’t know each other that well, and his compliments were too dime store romance novel for my taste, although they made me feel good about myself.
Read more: Why sociopaths cheat
I tried to get to know him better. I knew that his father had died, but he didn’t talk about him much, which I found odd, but I chalked it up to masculine reserve (we always find an excuse, don’t we?). He had wanted to be a minister, and had been in a Master’s program, but he gave me a vague answer about why he dropped out. I thought it was strange that someone who desired a religious vocation would be content drifting to various call centre jobs for the past ten years. He also never had any ideas for activities, I always had to make suggestions, and it seemed like he relied on other people for entertainment because he didn’t know how to entertain himself. It was as if he had no inner life.
He would also look at me with such (I thought at the time) longing it was unnerving, but now I think it was also a predatory gaze. At one point the sweet talk was too intense and I told him to tone it down. He seemed so sad after that, he said he was patient, but he said he was patient a lot, and that bothered me. He was always online and he messaged me constantly to see how I was doing. There were red flags waving at me, but I thought he was very sweet and attentive, and he seemed like he desperately needed a friend and some affection. Once I decided I could ignore his lack of ambition and it was only a friends with benefits relationship that wasn’t going to go anywhere anyway, I let him know that I wanted to be intimate with him. That part was very nice (I’ve noticed that other writers on the site mention that the sex is often good). Our sexual relationship lasted for three months.
Open relationship?
L seemed to really like me, but he could only see me when M was away, he told me she was seeing her girlfriend on the side (she was bisexual, he said). If it was really open, I wondered, then why can he only see me when she’s somewhere else? The only time L spent the night with me was a weekend M was away. He spent one night at my house, and he didn’t call her, she thought he had died, he told me. The next night, I went to their apartment and L called her while I was there, but he didn’t mention that I was in the apartment with him. He wanted me to sleep with him in their bed.
By this time he had started complaining to me about M, and I was beginning to hate her (I never thought that way about her before, she seemed nice, but very depressed). But I couldn’t sleep in their bed, it seemed like too great a violation of their relationship, so I made an excuse and left. I think that he didn’t want to be alone when M was gone, and any warm body would do. Once we started having sex, L talked to me online less and less, sometimes just sending a ‘check-in’ e-mail. I felt like I was being used, that I was giving him something M couldn’t, because he told me they hadn’t had sex in a long time. That didn’t bother me much until I realized I wanted an actual boyfriend, and it couldn’t be him because he would never leave M, and we weren’t compatible anyway.
At this time I made plans to meet him but he couldn’t because he was in a tight financial spot, so I said we shouldn’t make plans until his money situation improved. (Also, he told me that his sisters gave him some money but had turned him down when he asked for more, he then asked me for $20-$30, which I thought was in bad taste so I said no, my refusal and his lack of money didn’t seem to bother him very much.) He e-mailed me back saying that he agreed we should wait until he had more money, but then he said I was the most important thing in his life and he didn’t want to lose me. At first, I was flattered, but then I really thought about what he said. How could I be the most important thing in his life when he barely talks to me and he’s living with another woman? It defied all logic. If I saw red flags before, I was hearing sirens now, too.
Break-up e-mail
After a lot of deliberation, I sent him an e-mail (we rarely spoke on the phone, which also bothered me, if he liked me so much, wouldn’t he want to talk to me more often?) telling him I wanted an actual boyfriend, I felt like I was being used, and that being with me would not fix the problems he has with M. I was harsh, but I told the truth. I had hoped he would apologize and we could go back to being friends, or at least end on good terms. A few hours later I get an e-mail from M, telling me that they had been together for over ten years (he never told me that), that she loves him (he told me that they were together mostly to split cost of living, and that he thought no one cared about him) and that our friends with benefits relationship never happened, because if it did ‘he would have told me.’
I was devastated. He had lied to me and to the woman he presumably loves and has been with for over a decade. I have tried to piece together what may have happened. From what M wrote, he probably read my e-mail, and he was afraid I would tell M what we did (I never would have told her, he made me think she was a bad person), he most likely told her I had a ‘crazy idea’ that we had had sex, and that I wanted them to break up. He probably made me sound delusional. Maybe he even suggested that she write me an e-mail to ‘set me straight.’ She ended her e-mail with ‘If you want a boyfriend, I suggest you find someone single.’ I never replied to her, but I did send him another e-mail that said I was removing him from my facebook profile and blocking his e-mail. I haven’t contacted him since, and he hasn’t tried to talk to me.
The girlfriend didn’t know
It was at this point that I realized that M had no idea that L had visited me many times at my house. She thinks we only went to dinner once or twice and went for a few walks. I also realized that I thought M was a horrible person based on what L told me. I once went to their apartment and while he was in another room taking a phone call, she showed me family pictures; it seemed like she really loves and cares about L and his family. L once told me he thought M and I were a lot alike. He cited our love for animals, but I think it was really because we’re both nice, decent girls with shaky self-esteem, and he thought he could use me for sex, and he uses M because she gives him some semblance of a normal family life, and does things like cook for him.
I don’t know how much he even liked me, I think he got off on the thrill of deceiving M, and he thought I would be a willing partner because I like to believe I’m a free thinker and being in an open relationship intrigued me. Although I was raw for about a week, and I wondered if he had lied to me about everything (did he really think I was beautiful?), talking to my friends about what happened has helped me a lot. My roommate has since told that me he never liked L, because when they spoke he thought L was subtly trying to bend him to his will, and he reminded him of his ex, who was abusive and had tried to kill him. It was then that I started thinking that L was a psychopath, and I found the Love Fraud website. I’m not sure if L is a total psychopath, but his ability to lie to his long-time girlfriend and using her to hurt me makes me think he has enough of those awful traits to be dangerous.
I realize that I loved L, but actually, I loved a fantasy; a sweet man caught in an open but troubled relationship he felt he couldn’t leave, and he made me feel like I was wonderful for showing him so much affection and understanding. I am getting over the illusion, but I worry about M, who is still trapped in his dreamland. Maybe she really is rotten, and maybe they deserve each other, but I can’t imagine what he’s done to her over the years. I believe he played the ‘wounded bird’ routine with me when it is really M who is abused in the relationship.
I worry he might try to hurt her, or someone else he gets involved with. I want to contact her to tell her my side of the story, but I know she will only think that I’m crazy, and if she questions him, he’ll twist my words around to his benefit. I’m trying hard to let that urge to contact her go. Unfortunately, she will have to figure it out for herself, because psychopaths are good liars, but they’re not that good. His mask will slip eventually. I don’t worry that he will contact me again, as other psychopathic exes on this site have done, because he knows that I can no longer be manipulated. I’m sure he has moved on and doesn’t even think about me.
Psychopathy
The funny/sad thing is that I have a degree in psychology, and I specialized in abnormal psychology. I’ve read a great deal of the literature on psychopathy, and one of my professors even worked with Dr. Robert Hare. I was fooled, and I feel foolish. Despite friends who know both L and I telling me it was a bad idea to go out with him, despite knowing he had hit on other girls, I went out with him anyway. L seemed so sincere, but the more I thought about the odd intensity of his words and actions, and how they didn’t match up, something told me it wasn’t right. I could never get those little red flags to stop waving in my head. But I think I had to figure that out for myself.
I consider myself lucky that I was the ‘Other Woman’ and not in M’s position; I couldn’t imagine ten years with him. I hope M finds peace and happiness, and as for L, I don’t think he will ever know what love feels like, because psychopaths are a different species. I don’t think they are completely human. Some people on this website describe them as ‘broken,’ but psychopaths were never functioning to begin with. They can’t change, but we can teach ourselves and others their tricks and avoid them as much as possible, and that’s empowering.
I’m sure that there are other psychopaths who are using the open relationship model to lure partners who could never be with a cheater. An open relationship is a perfect cover for a psychopath; because often, the secondary partner isn’t integrated into their lives like the primary partner is, and their family and friends often don’t know it’s open. L’s family didn’t know, and although I wanted to meet his family and friends and vice versa, I knew I couldn’t as the secondary partner. If I had, maybe I would have figured out something was wrong, sooner.
In hindsight, I should have never have taken L’s word that M was okay with an open relationship, I should have asked her directly (as awkward as that would have been), but I’m sure he would have made an excuse as to why she didn’t want to talk about it. I came out of the ‘relationship’ with L relatively unscathed, and what I have taken away from my experience is: don’t feel bad for trusting people every once in a while. We’ve all trusted people before and it turned out well, and it will again. I’m not jaded, but I’m definitely wiser. I think these lyrics sum up my experience best:
I’m just another john you gypped
another sucker stiffed
A walk on role in the script
to your long, long grift
The love that had me in your grip
was just a long, long grift
“Long Grift,” from Hedwig and the Angry Inch
Learn more: Survivor’s guide to healthy people and healthy relationships
Lovefraud originally posted this story on July 10, 2010.
LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Lost and really need help
Tobehappy,
Well, I hope you are right and that you overreacted when you broke up with him. I hope is is being honest with you now.
My “break point” is ONE lie, but I do believe in checking it out with them before I toss them out the door. Everyone in my close circle knows though that lying is a deal breaker so it is their choice to do it or not. My choice, to tolerate it or not.
Good luck.
Oxy….thanks for responding.
When we first got involved, I knew him because we worked together for two years prior to getting involved. I knew that he was very reserved with telling anyone about his personal business because he was a cop, and some of his investments were with other cops and he wanted to protect THEIR business.
I was wrong not to confront him when I saw a paper he left on my desk that told me that he was buying the house with a woman he was once involved with, who actually owned it with his brother. He was making an investment and planned to buy it alone but needed her to stay on the deed to get the mortgage. I had only been with him a month at that time. So, it was none of my business what he was doing financially.
So, even though it bothered me, I was wrong not to tell him I knew of the investment. It didn’t bother me at the time because we weren’t serious.
He told me the other night, NEVER to hold back my feelings or questions if I want to know something. Because of my insecurity, I was building up things inside of my head and it built up. He couldn’t understand why I was “pushing” him away.
I believe my insecurity is from my marriage to a socio and the abuse I let him inflict upon me. My mother abused me also, which is why I didn’t get involved with a man for 5 yrs before I met him.
When I met him, he didn’t have any of the traits of a socio, which is why I thought I was “healed”. I worked on ME,….but I wasn’t confident when it came to relationships. I told him this from the start and he did try to build me up and constantly told me how he cared for me, everyday. We were so compatible….talked for hours everyday on the phone or when we were together…and sex was amazing….we had such chemistry. I was so suspicious…..and mistrusting,….because of my relationship with a real socio…my xhusband.
This is a lesson. The after-effect of being involved with a pathological liar with no conscience. This is why its so important to HEAL and build up confidence in ourselves before being able to have a healthy relationship. Had I confronted him on some issues instead of ‘assuming’ things….I wouldn’t have destroyed our relationship. But, the love didn’t go away.
I am going to be different this time around. I had enough time to build myself up and feel stronger now. I even confronted him with times in our relationship where I “assumed” he was meeting another woman. He laughed and assured me that it was NOT a woman….and got mad that I didn’t ask him that particular night.
So, I learned now….Communication is so important and not compromising myself. If he loves me, he will understand if I ask. I made some serious mistakes with him….always “assuming” and mistrusting.
Its so amazing how being in an abusive relationship can kill your confidence. I learned so much through this. We need to speak up and keep one eye open at all times. We need to heal before we can have healthy relationships. We need to choose people who are healthy and happy and watch their motives. If you get involved with someone just out of a relationship, for example. When I met a guy in the last few months, and he said he “just broke up” with a woman…I ran. Separated, I wouldn’t even answer the ad! I want a healthy man to be involved with. I believe that my b/f has some insecurity issues, but he learned through this too. Noone is perfect, but we need to “screen” them well.
Anyway, thanks for responding. I was worried that maybe “I” was the abuser in the relationship…because I was holding in some doubts and then pushed him away and ran. I explained this all to him. It really takes two healthy people to have a healthy relationship. Whether we are the abuser or the victim, we need to work on ourselves to be true to ourselves.
In ANY relationshiip do not MOVE TOO FAST in confidence and trusting. AND (in my opinion) if you catch him in a lie of any kind, then dump the relationship. Also keep in mind that keepihng information FROM you can be a form of lying.
Just be up front with him that says “Hey, John, I just want you to know that I have this thing about trusting others, and I want to trust you, because I care about you but the this is want you to know that if you EVER even ONE time lie to me, unless it is about what you intend to get me for my birthday, It will be a deal breaker and there will not be any second chance. Being TRUTHFUL is VERY important to me, and I promise I will be completely truthful with you in anything I tell you. Trust is established by being truthful with each other all the time.
It is a good thing I think to set boundaries when you start a relationship a sort of “I do what I say I will, and I say what I will do.” BE 100% honest. If he says I’d like to go to the beach and the beach is the thing you hate, tell him “John I really hate going to the beach, but I do like the zoo, so if you’d like to go to the zoo, I’ll go with you, but if you really want to go to the beach, why don’t you invite some other friends and I’ll take the day and stay home and read which I haven’t had time to do lately.” Dont do things you HATE without saying things about it. IF though you don’t much care for it but he really wants to go te4ll him, You know, John, the beach isn’t my favorite spot, but I can see how excited you are to go there, so I’ll go and know I’ll have a good time just by being with you.
That’s honest communication.
Watch how he is with others too—meet his friends and family, get off in the kitchen with the women and gossip some, KEEP YOUR EARS OPEN as you see him in different situations. See how he treats others, waitresses, taxi drivers, salesmen in stores. friends.
GET to know the TOTAL MAN. And, keep coming here and updating us! We’d like to know how things go. ((((hugs))))
It was a lie that started the problems in my current relationship. I got involved with a guy I knew to be a long-shot and a risk but not a sociopath (at least, not the smooth talking kind.) He had made a lot of improvements in his life and seemed to be always going forward, so I thought I’d give it a shot since he is handsome, fun and sweet.
Well, he was doing fine though stressed out over a lot of family court issues, until one day he lied to me. It was something that wasn’t really my business, true, and it was a very small potatoes issue (I thought), but he looked straight in my eyes and lied to me. And I knew it.
That just really threw me for a loop. I put him on “probation”, checked out everything he said to me, fought with him and pushed him very hard about all the issues I could find…just about made him think I turned into another person.
I still to this day don’t know what will happen. The issue turned out to be a lot bigger than I knew, and a lot more complicated, which probably made him think lying was better than getting into it.. I don’t know. I have never caught him lying to me about anything else, but that one time sure threw a monkey wrench into our relationship.
Dear Kat,
The problem with LYING is that if they do it about A they will do it about B and as a philosopher said once “I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that I can believe you any more.”
About new years my son C who had moved home lied to me, not a “big lie” and he wasn’t out robbing liquor stores or banks, or kicking the cat, but he LIED TO ME. It broke my heart b ecause he knew full well that ANY LIE to me would be a DEAL BREAKER for our relationship. Heck he had himself just broken a life time of trust and relationship with his grandmother for LYING TO HIM, and he knew I would NOT tolerate ANY lie. So he lied to me over somenting that wasn’t a big deal, if he had manned up and talked to me, we could have “worked it out.”
Instead he LIED. So I told him because of the lie, he had to leave my house and gave him a month to do so—so he went to his boss and his best friend at work and told them I had thrown HIM OUT ON THE STREET INTO THE SNOW……(head shaking here) WHAT DID HE GAIN by all this? Giving up the relationship with your last brother and your mother, for a “small” lie? It doesn’t make sense to me, his brother and I were both devestated.
But we also realized that we had “triavlized” and “overlooked” and “excused” some pretty chitty things he had done in the past, and that we had projected the “blame” for them onto his P-wife’s influence or his P-brother’s influence, but we realized that even though he may not be a psychopath himself, he is sure an arse-hole. 24 Karat gold plated, delux version, and one that inspite of his IQ is NOT VERY SMART.
But my life is better without him in it because I no longer need to worry about when he will lie to me again. I just no longer allow people to lie to me and expect that I should trust them. DUH!?
I’m still unraveling the lies after nearly two months of no contact. I continue to assess what took place and I thank all of you because you have made it so much easier!! When the h spath and I were getting to know each other, we had so much in common, we appeared like soul mates! Amazing, I thought at the time. Now I know that it was intentional on his part for me to feel that way. Anyway, we were talking about orange juice. I prefer Tropicana, not from concentrate. Lo and behold so did he!! Wow! Well we went shopping on two separate occasions and he chose Simply Orange. I brought it to his attention that he told me he liked Tropicana and to tell you the truth, I can’t even remember his response, but it was vague and I let it go. If this idiot would lie about some darn orange juice, he wouldn’t think twice about lying about anything else!!!!! ORANGE JUICE!!! Can you believe it!!!???
After reading many posts about lying, I remember he had told me that he had dated a girl at one point that liked him to pull her hair and slap her. I focused on her at the time, thinking she must have been some weirdo. It wasn’t until later that I thought about what was he truly like to have participated in that type of situation. That info, coupled with using the terms “rape” to describe how he wanted to be with me. And sending me photos with threesomes, sodomizing, etc. When I would ask him about it, he would deny that he liked the kind of stuff, just that he was interested in a particular position. I only slept with him twice because we live in different states and he was on his way to move with me.
After considering all of the lies, I was frightened to think that he might be some kind of sexual sadist or rapist or whatever. He was always trying to test the waters to see my reaction.
LIES! LIES! LIES!!!
Hello Kat o nine tales….It’s good to see you , I think. I hope this new relationship works out for you. A lie is a lie is a lie but if he’s handsome and only lied once I would stick it out a little longer. Just throwing some humor into the pot for ya, really just wanted to say howdy to you because you were here when I signed on and I will never forget some of our conversations..this is Henry in case you didnt know…peace.
Hello Healing fast They will say anything to impress us or indear us. Mine once said he really admired a guy that kept his trash can under the sink behind closed door. And another time he ‘admired a guy’ that uses a slotted spoon for can peas. I was beginning to wonder if I was some kind of genious.
One time he watched my favorite movie with me and one of the lines in the movie was “it’s like you hung the moon’ well he started telling me it was like I hung the moon…hmmm polly wana cracker?
Dear Healingfast,
Did you meet this guy on the internet? The thing about “long distance” dating is that when you “visit” it is like they can BE anyone they want to portray for a while….Ps are EXCELLENT about that. Just like Henry said “polly wanna cracker?” LOL
They tell SO MANY lies that they can’t always keep them straight….lying about OJ???? LOL they ARE THE LIE, and the best way to tell when they are lying is ARE THEIR LIPS MOVING?
Thanks Hens and Ox!
Yes I did meet him on the internet!! Big mistake. Should have never done it!! I thought because it was a religious website for singles that I was okay. I thought I could pick out the sickos and I did find out about several weirdos who I had turned out. They were OVERT. I was totally unprepared for this COVERT operation.
When I met him he had a big old gold tooth in the front. I’m like OMG! He never mentioned that!! But anyway, goldy could never make a whole lot of eye contact. I mistook it for shyness. It was really weird being around him. After we were married, he started that night with the devaluing. You weren’t what I thought you were. We can just be friends, etc. I was so caught off guard! Looking back he was trying to see how much I was willing to take to ensure that I would not leave him. He wanted to make sure i was committed to the idea of marriage which would give him an opportunity to work his “magic”, with me being none the wiser.
Although the distance (internet) is what probably caused the problem in terms of me not seeing who he truly was, it was the distance I believe saved me from the full onslaught of what he was planning. I thank God!!