Psychopaths are not necessarily great liars. That’s the premise of a series of articles Dr. Stephen Appel, the newest Lovefraud Blog author, has recently posted on his website, The Top Two Inches.
“The Top Two Inches,” in case you’re wondering (as I was), refers to the head, but means the mind, brain and thinking. Dr. Steve’s website is devoted to contemplating “the mysterious workings of the mind.”
In Myth: Psychopaths are great liars, Dr. Steve agrees that psychopaths are pathological liars. “They are pathological, they are chronic tellers of untruths, and this dishonesty is tied up with their pathology,” he writes.
But according to Dr. Steve, research shows the speech of a psychopath is not particularly convincing. So how do they manage to be so deceptive? It’s everything else that they do—their arrogance, grandiosity, sob stories and intimidation—that mislead listeners into believing them. It’s not the words; it’s the show.
Published author
Dr. Steve is a psychotherapy practitioner, clinical supervisor and educator. He is editor of Psychoanalysis and Pedagogy, a book that looks at education through the lens of psychoanalysis, and vice versa.
Dr. Steve has authored scientific papers as well. One paper, The Heritage of Disorganised Attachment, describes people who relate to others in a way that seems to change moment by moment. They’re cheerful, they’re complaining, they’re angry, they’re depressed—all within an unpredictable matter of minutes. This disorder arises in childhood as a result of maltreatment or living in a frightening environment—conditions a child of a psychopath might experience.
“Psychotherapy with a disorganized client is demanding,” Dr. Steve writes, “but can be life-altering.”
Interest in psychopaths
Dr. Steve has an intellectual interest in psychopaths, and a personal and clinical concern for those they prey upon. While he believes much is to be gained from understanding the psychopathic mind, he is deeply skeptical about the merits of doing psychotherapy with psychopaths.
On the other hand, those who have had their selves distorted, corroded and emptied out by psychopaths need to repair themselves and may benefit enormously from working with a mental health professional.
The Lovefraud Blog welcomes the insights and contributions of Dr. Steve Appel.
Thank you for those welcoming comments on my piece. I thought I’d gone off at a bit of a tangent because I do feel strongly about this
I’ve spent the past seven months in deep research about my encounter simply to find understanding and this research has taken me down a facinating road that has developed into an intellectual interest and a clearer understanding of the depths of the human spirit.
I saw The Secret some time back and I have the extended version of What the Bleep. I found What the Bleep to be incredibly interesting from a scientific point where our environments and our own perceptions affect us emotionally as well as physically, i.e. the chemical changes in our bodies that react and manifest as emotions.
The Secret however, never did quite “sit” with me. I honestly did NOT believe I had “attracted” this trauma and many other trauma’s into my life. I thought “heck, I must be Hitler incarnated into this life, here to pay a huge debt” Then I thought “no ways” … I have genuinely given so much good to people from all walks, in personal associations as well as business dealings so there is no way this Law of Attraction is fully correct. There are issues I can discuss in terms of the nuts & bolts of our lives where yes, we do attract certain things and we do orchestrate and manipulate our lives … but honestly, contrary to what The Secret tells us, the Universe is NOT a vending machine that spits out new cars, big houses, fat bank balances and great lovers every time a ‘thought’ passes through the frontal lobe of our brain. According to the Secret it does and it happens 100% of the time for 100% of the people who “know” the secret …. Heavens alive people, if our minds were all-powerful and all-creating why are we being so selfish? We should be using that power to help sentient beings or heal the source of suffering in mankind!! This new age stuff is trapping people into an oddessy of aquisition (materialism) while breeding arrogance and narcissism … My question now is to ask Ms Rhonda Byrne if she has donated ANY of her wealth (50 million dollars worth) to any worthwhile “need” in humanity?? With all the hype, what’s happening now?…. the latent sociopaths are crawling out of the woodwork because those who were actually keeping themselves “in check” are now given licence to let it all hang out.
Dr Steve, if you’re going to write an artical on this topic there is a blog site that would probably interest you about the depths of the the human spirit and how we are being ‘lied’ to in terms of this shallow self-help masquerading as a deeply spiritual concept. The author, Stuart Davis is a bit “out there” but he’s been practicing Zen on a daily basis for the past seven years and his insight is very interesting. It took a little while for me to process and digest what he was saying in this blog but once I understood it, it was a lightbulb moment that has set me on a path to discover more … and boy, have I !! What is appearing as regulation in terms of information being communicated by people of authority is very much glossed over with all kinds of mental psycho-babble with little substance. What is is doing is increasing the obscenely large bank accounts of the people putting out the ‘stuff’.
Stuarts page, titled The Secret: The Spirituality of Narcissism is at : http://www.stuartdavis.com/node/1138
Also, search http://www.youtube.com for David Schirmer. There are five TV interviews. David Schirmer is the man who, in The Secret tells you HOW to make the millions the secret promises … he’s the financial guru. Start at Part One where he is ‘conned’ into appearing on live TV show and is exposed for the con artist he is by people he has ripped off to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
If anyone would like to discuss this more deeply they are welcome to email me. I am not qualified to make statements or diagnoses but I am happy to share what I have found.
My address that i use for this work is : expo_zay@yahoo.co.uk
Buzzibee,
I have found it fascinating that as I read comments on the Blogs, I find women who are interested in the same things as me. I attended a Buddhist retreat last weekend with a Teacher that in the past, I felt had helped me tremendously. But now, I see how I applied all this “compassion” to someone that did not give a crap about my well being and was ripping into my spirit, my soul, which I laid completely bare before him, like a rabid dog. The Bad Man often claimed to be interested in Buddhist thought and often borrowed books from me which he would claim he had read completely by the next day and then he would claim to have gotten it all. Then he would use this stuff against me.
Was it you that mentioned the Non-violent Communication (NVC)? Someone on here did and it immediately struck me… I was reading about that too. I think all of this new Age stuff that I was looking at prolonged the pain as I tried to understand the “observations, feelings, needs, and requests” of a psycho that was beating me over the head with his bullshit interpretations.
I will never again put so much energy into trying to understand where someone if coming from if they are being abusive to me. I don’t know what I was thinking.
And as far as Buddhism goes, I left the retreat when the teacher started talking about Karma and telling a student that the reason her father sexually abused her is because she was a sexual abuser in a past life. I have had enough of this crap. I told the woman on a break, “You don’t have to believe that and take that on.” I then told her, “I am not a Buddhist and I don’t believe I ever was an ant nor will I ever be an ant. Karma is here and now.” I could see the struggle on her face. She obviously had been crying. She appeared to want to be a Buddhist so badly. She stared at me silently and appeared to be half disgusted and half relieved. I left after that.
Anyway, for me, before I met the Bad Man, I was going through a very difficult heart break and in retrospect, I was taking way too long to let go and move on with my life (three years). I was searching for answers, I listened to all kinds of “teachers” and finally, I found the strength, armed with all my New Age knowledge, to make a GIGANTIC change and I moved to the islands to start my life over. Barely 10 days after I arrived, I met the Bad Man. In fact, he emailed me via Match.com 3 days before I even arrived on the islands. When I think about this, I just feel creeped out. I remember when I landed, I felt like I had the world by the ass! I was so thrilled that I had made this move and tears of joy flowed. I didn’t know that I was about to get the biggest lesson in life, ever.
I do believe we attract things into our lives to teach us our lessons. However, I love what you said about life not being a vending machine. Thank you. I don’t believe I deserved any of the bad that happened. But I did learn from it.
And like you, I read constantly about personality disorders and the issues of healing. In fact, I am in the application process to try to go back to school for a Masters in Social Work and maybe and LCSW down the road. The gift of my own personal trainwreck was that I found a direction that I am passioate about.
I am thankful for this site and the people here because I feel understood and I have a community where I can vent. I was thinking of getting some counseling for myself but I doubt it would be better than being here where people understand what I went through and “sociopath” is not just a chapter in a book they read while in school. In the last few months I have realized that I am not alone at all in this.
I care tremendously about the people here. I wish that we all learn our lessons and emerge stronger than ever. And to take a little piece of Buddhism… it’s not what happened to us but how we think about what happened to us that creates our happiness. That, I believe.
Aloha… E.R.
alohatravler – “Sociopaths are hard to explain. Being a victim of one is even harder to explain.” Exactly. This must be why a certain percentage of people apparently still can’t buy that OJ might be a nasty guy. I guess it’s a sweet naivety to have about human nature – but it can land one in the soup.
buzzibee – Thanks for the links; I’ll follow them up. Keep in touch re your findings about The Secret.
Wow… I relate to so many of the comments here on so many levels. I no longer remember exactly how I case across this site, but I am so glad that I did.
My experience isn’t quite over, and I guess I hope to find some fortitiude here. I think that reading other’s experiences makes me feel less isolated, and helps me finally understand that no matter how hard I tried, I would have had to zombie myself to make my relationship with him work. I don’t ask for much out of life, and think that the measure of sucess is not that one has a luxury lifestyle. Financial success does help cushion one from some of life’s traditional concerns but it does not erase problems or provide serenity. One of the common threads I’ve encountered here is the one that identifies the sociapath as being grandiose, needing to appear powerful even if it’s a facade, and for lack of better terms – gaslighting… you’re overreacting- if you question. Somehow, standing up for yourself- by questioning, and following your instincts labels you as disloyal and a destroyer.
I am a the product of a home where physical discipline from one parent was the norm if one behaved other than what was expected. So you tried to be dutiful, understand, to learn what was expected and do as you’re told without questioning or seeming defiant. But you do question especially if there’s inconsistency, because you really want to understand why you’re wrong, you don’t want to do it again. You think that if you explain your questions, they’ll understand you were not intentionally being defiant. You try to fix. Therein lay the seeds that leave you prey…you think you can fix because from your own experiences you have empathy, sympathy and you try to help. You nurture because you relate to the feeling of an undeserved situation.
Being a “nurturer” is probably both a strength and a curse. I don’t want to lose the side that cares about the welfare of others, but I also know that it is my responsibiltiy to also love myself and care about my own welfare. When someone in my life is incapable of letting me voice my concerns in a way that allows both of us to understand each other’s viewpoint and resolve the conflict, and labels me as a destroyer just because I do, well, it is my responsibility to love myself enough to leave.
I knew I was on the right track being on this site and really spending some time going through the comments when I saw the comments that pertained to the “The Secret”. I can’t tell you how many times well-intentioned have touted it’s power as if it were some talisman … if I changed my outlook, I could change my life. I had a hard childhood, and because of it I used to see myself as flawed. It is because of my upbringing, I am understanding of those who are experiencing a difficulty… and I don’t want to lose that aspect. The man I left has a 1st ex-wife who calls him a Jekyll & Hyde, and I know from personal experience that when it’s good, it’s unbelievable and you think you are the luckiest person on the planet, but when it’s bad, well, it’s very bad. I’ve been in physical danger because of his pretense to be an expert at something he was barely familiar with, caused financial issues, and had to deal with so much DRAMA and woes due to others but no fault of his own. Even though I left him the fun’s not over. Because of this man and his actions, I find myself dealing with possible legal consequences … turns out even if you did not participate but became aware, you’re possibly culpable if you don’t report it. Luckily, a friend’s comment agitated me enough to investigate. The comment which she later felt guilty about, because she has no legal background prompted me into action. Anyway, the fun’s not over and I’m probably trying to steel myself for what’s ahead… the comments here seem really familiar with the joy that confronting this peronality type entails . It’s been comforting to read through other’s comments and see their lives afterwards … that they went through their own horrific experiences and survived. There is solidarity in admitting your fears\pain, and sharing experiences.
From my experiences, I believe when we admit to our shortcomings, we are actually gaining the strength we need to fight the fight of life. I put all this into perspective and say a hearty thank you that I’m not living in another country dodging bombs and fearing for my life in that respect. I have dealt with the shame of being taken for a chump. Even though so many of the ones in question, don’t know how to share, I’m glad I still can. I’m much choosier now. I find I don’t have to constantly give. I don’t give to get, but it makes for a much nicer relationship to share equally. I read where altruistic relationships are the happiest. To me altruism=The Golden Rule. How could one miss on that one? I gave, he didn’t. Only a little bit when he thought he was going to be getting more. Then he quit. He let me see it was all about him and not us. There wasn’t an us. When I bring this up, I’m complaining. I should be grateful he even stops to see me.
As I think of his arrogance, I see him pictured here through all the stories. These men aren’t unique. They are carbon copies of each other. They all have the same lines. That amazes me and comforts me that we all do understand each other. I’m finding the ones I believe are the ones who will tell their story. The ones who don’t tell are the ones who have something to hide. When a person is evasive, the red flags fly. I’m like, here we go again. Not. I now know what to look for and they are there once we become aware. This is a great site. I relive my pain reading the posts, but I’m now glad I’m on the other side. It’s a dark, lonely journey until we reach this point. It’s been so surreal. We’re with a living, breathing human being, who isn’t there. They talk but don’t say anything. But yet they think they are so profound. If only they took as good care of the inside as they do the outside. If only they’d get help. When it’s good it’s very good. Then the ugly kicks in, and the joy is gone and you begin to wonder what will bring it back. Only to find out it’s gone for good and the last flicker, flickered out. You can’t build a fire out of cold ashes. You try, but it’s gone. Not one spark. No breath of life. You’ve been loved and hated almost in the same breath, that you don’t care anymore. The pain is too great to keep dancing to their beat. You want to retreat and dance alone. But it’s so good to share and hear. We are faceless people who can share each other’s pain, but could tell each other’s story. The names have been changed.
Dr.Steve,
OJ Simpson is ABSOLUTELY a sociopath. (I know that is what you meant.) The look on his face… UGH!!! I can’t stand to see him and when he shows up on TV – click. Good Bye OJ! I do not want to hear anything he has to say about anything. OJ Simpson is one of the worst tragedys of our time. I remember where I was when I heard the verdict… a bar/restaurant in Monterey. I was walking by and I saw the TV and they made the announcement and the room was *silent*… But yes, he is a perfect example of gift Sociopaths have to get people eating out of their hands.
By the way… welcome! I have enjoyed all of the comments sparked by your contributions.
Thanks for being here.
Aloha… E.R.
nomas07 – A great term for a sick thing: ‘Gaslighting’ – driving someone crazy.
You name one of the greatest challenges facing so many readers of this site:
“I don’t want to lose the side that cares about the welfare of others, but I also know that it is my responsibiltiy to also love myself and care about my own welfare.”
apt/mgr – This is right except for the word ‘almost’ which I’d omit: “loved and hated almost in the same breath”
alohatraveler – Good to be here – thanks.
Dr. Steve,
It was one and the same. I guess if one can’t determine real love, love and hate are the same emotion. It took me a long time to realize that love is a chosen and not a given in a lot of cases. I chose and choose to love. I can’t understand why would someone hate the one who wants to love them. This part of life sure has puzzled me. I thought we did what came naturally. I actually shudder when I have a reality moment. I have to stop and converse with myself to reassure me that I’m not there anymore and they can’t do anything to me unless I let them. And that won’t happen. I don’t ever want to go through the push/pull of wondering if I’m hated or loved, only to find out they are one and the same. I can actually feel sorry for those whose love receivers are defunct. They are to be pitied.
It’s also good to have a man’s opinions. It’s comforting to know that all men don’t play act. I’m glad for your input and insight.
Hello Everyone and Dr. Steve, too —
My “event” has gratefully passed 14 months since final contact. I still revisit this site and read the posts, although my need to write has subsided.
I am gay and my “event” with the Psycho is quite the same as what I have read here. I met him on an online site. Was a fantastic promising relationship. Strange red flags I ignored. Turned ugly. Turned cruel.
I was vulnerable, yes, but I also believe it was partly just plain old bad luck. I am not a weak lost person. I was probably a bit lonely and under a lot of stress at the time. I think there is an element of bad luck in these encounters that we have made ourselves more likely to come across.
I want to say that even though I have recovered myself from the six months of emotional rape I subjected myself to in 2006, the ordeal remains a benchmark and a reference point for me. I can’t escape that. And, yes, every so often (tonight in fact), I will google the bastard to see what new information might float by. I shouldn’t do that. I shouldn’t care, but curiousity or boredom, or who knows what…sometimes leads me to take a peek.
And…after I have learned what’s new…I always come back to this site, to remind me what the bastard was (and is) and what I went through. He’s still out there just as normal (to others) as ever. He is extremely intelligent (skipped 3 grades).
As I read this site and have pieced together all my layman’s knowledge of the condition, with the help of great cognitive therapist I continue to see weekly, I wonder if what gave the Psycho extraordinary intellectual intelligence (probably of a narrow kind), is also what gave him the strange brain mechanics that created psychopathy.
He is intelligent but has not put it to any use other than felonies, one of which he was convicted of and spent 2 years in a penitentiary (I found out through my own detective work). How sad. A warped brilliance that is evil and sick and misread by most people as “a great guy.”
Yechh. I am stronger for the experience, but it’s disheartening to know there are so many of these people out there. Life is tragic enough without this “condition” in so many of our fellow human beings.
I’m of the opinion that common moral sense rules humanity, not religious imagery and organized religious manmade authority (which more often than not is corrupt with a capital “C”).
Of course, being gay, I am less likely to embrace organizations that view me as inheritantly “sick” and “doomed.”
However, that said, I do believe in spirituality, and its overall presence is obvious to me. And though I agree with what’s written here about New Age gurus stepping in for those that lack a compass, there are still many of us that are not attached to organized religions but have a strong inner compass anyway.
Finally, makes you wonder, how does the spirituality of humankind encompass these psychopathic brothers and sisters of ours? I suppose what I read in so many posts on this blog is a natural desire to understand these people, when they are so difficult if not impossible to forgive.
to laman2:
This might seem pollyannaish, but it would would nice to think we lived in a world where our race, religion, or choice of mate did not define us … that we lived in a world that accepted each other as human beings deserving of consideration, respect, period. Unfortunately, it is true that true that much of organized religion, isn’t as tolerant as it should be… but that doesn’t necessarily make it corrupt…just in need of change, not abandonment. I think religion teaches faith. Faith seems to be a surrending of one’s current condition to a divine power we know ultimately to be merciful to us all. Hold true, stay in the light. Forgive, forget, move on, be healed.
As relates, to my experience, to heal, I intend to focus on myself … my triggers, my reactions. I can only be responsible for myself and my own behavior. It seems most productive to understand myself, hold myself accountable for my own behavior, and to not try to understand another’s behavior before I understand my own. I don;t want to keep trying to understand him, that will keep me tied to him as much as hating him would. Hate keeps you bound to someone … letting go of that releases you. Lets you forgive yourself for your own humanity, and frees you to rebuild your life. Unless, they are some part of your life, you cannot change, let go. I know a dear friend who was consoling me through a break-up, taught me that it was possible to forgive someone, but not let them back in my life. That forgetting them, not caring, was even the greatest, i guess “revenge”. They simply don;t matter to you anymore.
I don;t want to understand him, and actually am not sure how much benefit there is in understanding them. I think the benefit of this site, is the mutual empathy we all provide each other. That we are not reckless, desperate, ridiculous, weak … we are human, we care. That makes us their prey. Sharing of our mutual experiences empowers us to keep moving forward with confidence in what heads and our hearts tell us.