By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
I get most of my mail at a PO box and only a few things come to my rural mailbox, which sits on the road at the end of my driveway. A few days ago I checked the mailbox, and there were several Christmas cards ”¦ including one from an EX-friend.
We had reconnected a few years ago. He was an old college chum, a guy that I had palled around with when I was in my first couple of years of nursing school. He is also a nurse, now retired. We had a lot of the same interests then and still do, so since he had recently moved to this area, we started going places together and just being pals again. This was really kind of fun to have a “running buddy” to go to auctions with. My son D had also known my buddy’s sons at scout camp, so it was a “family friendship” as well.
After a couple of years of this, he began to act kind of snarky and did some things that were frankly dishonest and stupid. One of the things he did was to break a small agreement we had made, nothing “serious” as far as money was concerned, just $56, but he just didn’t do what he said he’d do and it greatly inconvenienced me. I decided it was serious enough of an inconvenience that I would try to talk to him. We sat down in my dining room and I brought up how he had backed out on the small agreement we had made and that I didn’t appreciate it. He became absolutely livid, called me a liar, accused me of trying to cheat him, etc., so in the very middle of his rant, I told him “Get out of my house right now!”
Since that day I had actually seen him only a couple of times in various stores. This year at Thanksgiving he showed up at one of our living history events ”¦ and I just ignored his presence and kept going. He also saw me and realized that I had ignored him.
My son and I had seen his son a couple of times, as he buses tables at a restaurant we eat at once in a while and both of us had been very friendly to the boy and cordial. Neither of us hold any grudge against the boy for his father being a jerk.
“Cooling off”
So there was a Christmas card from my ex-friend in the mailbox, and inside was a note from him saying that the “cooling off period” between us had gone on for far too long and he wanted to be friends again. I laughed when I read it.
This man is not a psychopath, he is just a jerk without a great deal of understanding of social discourse. He isn’t going to burn my house, or murder me, or anything else. But he took the holiday as an appropriate time in his mind to try to “mend fences” —without the proper tools.
Why would I laugh? Well he obviously thinks that “bad behavior + time = pretending it didn’t happen and everything’s lovely.”
Well, it may be true that “tragedy + time = humor,” but it does not mean we “pretend it never happened.” Time passing does not mean that no recognition of bad acts and no apology + time means “all is well.”
I don’t hate this man, I’m not still angry at him. I have “forgiven” him, in that I do not harbor bitterness toward him, but I don’t want to associate with him, to go places with him, or have him over at my house, because I have LOST TRUST in him. While I can “forgive” him, without TRUST, there just isn’t any need for association, because being around people I don’t trust isn’t something that makes me happy.
Being a stickler
Why am I being such a stickler? It wasn’t a big deal, really. I mean, come on, it was only $56, and he just lost his temper and called you nasty names. You’re a big person, Joyce, can’t you take the “high road” and just get over it? Now that a couple of years have gone by, shouldn’t we just cool off and be friends again?
The answer is NO! I don’t want to be friends with this man, now or ever, even though he is not a psychopath, he is not dangerous, and overall most people would say he’s a pretty good guy. However, he flunked the “Ox Drover friendship test,” which consists of an apology. His apology should have had three parts:
- acknowledging that what he did in breaking the agreement was wrong,
- that he was sorry he acted like he did, that he had no right to call me ugly names, and
- that he would never act like that again.
However, because he shows no recognition that what he did was wrong, there is no (#1) He shows no remorse for what he did so there is no (#2). He is only extending his “olive branch” to me to “pretend it never happened.” And of course because there is no #1 or #2 in his “extended olive branch” there can’t be a (#3), which means that I can’t trust him to not repeat this kind of behavior. I also realize that he has a hot temper when he is crossed or disagreed with or when he gets called out on BS.
Lost trust
As the philosopher Nietzsche says “It doesn’t matter to me that you lied, what bothers me is that I now cannot believe you.”
I lost my trust in my now-ex friend that day when he broke his word, and then projected on to me the problem, then called me a liar.
At the time that happened, my boundaries with people who were “close to me” were still pretty shaky, but I was getting my “training wheels off” with boundaries and I made this one quickly and firmly and have not wavered one whit from that day.
I actually started to write a reply to him, because he isn’t a psychopath, and I thought maybe, just maybe, he would see the error of his ways. But I got to thinking about what I would write and realized I didn’t even care enough to tell him what a jerk he is.
The best part though, is I don’t even feel guilty about not replying, and I don’t wonder if I should have taken his proffered “olive branch” (sans apology).
****”But I got to thinking about what I would write and realized I didn’t even care enough to tell him what a jerk he is.”
Is that a great feeling or what? Realizing you just don’t care; not even to send the jerk a note! I love it!
Remember the Hallmark slogan that said “When you care enough to send the very best”
How about when you just don’t give a $#!%…what do you send then? Nothing…and it feels great!
Dear Adelle, I hadn’t thought about it like that, YOU ARE RIGHT! THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT! LOL Thanks!!!!!
One of my favourite sayings…..
“if you’re going to be a liar, you better have a good memory”
Interestingly my ex stated he despised liars. Still can’t quite get my head around that one lol.
They do NOT like to be lied TO, but it is OK for them to LIE. Can’t figure that one out, but seems to be the case. If you lie to them they become enraged, but they are “justified” in lying to you. DUH!
Everything changed for me the day I figured out (sometime summer of 2011) that my ex-spath is a liar. We were in the middle of CPS-ordered therapy (which ran from approximately May through mid-October). The whole spath thing was slowly dawning on me, throughout the entire year. But one day (and you all helped) — it finally sunk in. I finally got it.
And once I did, I couldn’t ever go back. All of a sudden, I realized that ALL of it is/was a lie. You mix a sprinkle of salt (lies) in with water (truth) and you don’t have salt and water — you have salt water (lies). All lies.
The trust is gone forever. That cannot come back. I am no longer able to be jerked around by him, because I witnessed it for myself: he and his wife LYING for impression management purposes IN THE THERAPY SESSION, even though the kids and I knew they were lying… and this was for the benefit of whom? The therapist? The two spaths? It was incredible to see.
I wondered at the time… does he not KNOW that I know he is lying? Or does he know, but not CARE that I know? Does he have a bad memory? Or is it like an attempt at hypnotism… if he keeps lying long enough, we will be lulled into believing him?
No more! The kids and I know.
And the therapy helped us see all that. But other than that… what a waste. What NOT real therapy. You can’t do therapy when one of the people is a liar (or in this case, the two of them).
I’m trying to figure out now (since he is the kids’ dad and we have to share custody)… what exactly he wants from the one daughter who adamantly refuses to see him. She is still a bit scared of him. And the forced therapy (which was probably designed to reunite father and daughter…) ended up making up her mind even more firmly that she wants nothing to do with him.
But he keeps trying. She feels that he is stalking her.
Ox,
Sometimes I wonder if he hated liars so much because lying came so easily to him. Lies rolled off his tongue ….I know that now. But he would argue black is White and swear on the life of his child to convince me he hadn’t lied. Faced with that, I believed he hadn’t been with another woman. Only to discover…he had. To be duped, taken advantage of was his worst nightmare
He used to say my good qualities included honesty and that I had a big heart. …euphemisms for too trusting and far too soft
I once tried to list his good qualities. There weren’t any.
Adelle, thanks for that post. What do you send when you don’t give a
shiat. Nice one!
20years,
Towanda to your daughter. Good for her!
These things just do not get it do they? The reason your daughter doesn’t want to see him is nothing to do with him? Omg!
I take my hat off to people here who have to have contact because they have children with this sub species.
And….if he’s anything like my ex he wants what he is incapable of having. A loving relationship/ A relationship with another human being based on trust, devotion, respect and love
Pah, not a chance
20 years,
“What does he want?” The only thing I can see is CONTROL…it boils down them being IN CONTROL of everyone and everything.
If you and strongawoman have not read Dr. Robert Hare’s book, “without conscience” I think you should. I think EVERYONE here needs to read it. Dr. hare says that they will LIE EVEN KNOWING YOU KNOW THE TRUTH….that some how even with the EVIDENCE in front of them, they will still somehow hope, even believe, that if they lie hard enough, strong enough, that you will believe them. Doesn’t make sense to me, but apparently this is one of those things that is sort of a “RED FLAG” sign of a psychopath is that LYING IN THE FACE OF CONTRARY EVIDENCE.
Hare thinks that some two parts of their brains don’t connect when they are lying that in ours would connect because we would get it that “with the evidence in front of us, she is not going to believe me so I better back peddle and quit lying or at least change my story.” They don’t seem to get that signal. Hare wasn’t sure WHAT the signal was, but he gathered that they can’t see it.
In retrospect that was the FIRST sign I saw in my son, at age 11 he lied IN SPITE OF THE EVIDENCE BEING IN FRONT OF HIM. My other son lied, but when “caught out” would confess…..not the P son, he just kept on with the lie. At the time I didn’t realize that he was a budding Psychopath, but looking back I can see that was the FIRST sign. He is still that way, and unfortunately, too many times some people DO believe him.
I have seen the lying with the psychopaths and “would lie when the truth would fit better.” Not all liars are psychopaths, but all psychopaths are liars. So I figure if you avoid ALL LIARS you at least SIMPLIFY your life and keep out most of the psychopaths as well. LOL
Hey y’all,
so i did everything I can and try to stay here at school. The answer came out NO! I feel yet again defeated. The gentleman who’s helping with this is saying that when he spoke to my dad that he felt a common theme of “being unappreciative.” He says that he spoke to two different adults and they said that they use to support me in school. Everytime they would ask to see my grades, or how’s school I would either change the subject. He also said that he understands my father because I’m supposedly doing poorly in school and that I don’t deserve to be in school. Especially, since my college is 24,000 a year! Honestly, as a student if there’s no support in you helping me achieve my dreams then what’s the point of sharing. I’m tired of telling the truth and people believe my parents lies over and over. And scrutinize me as if what they are saying is true. He only knows what he hears in the gossip and I’m an intelligent girl. I honestly think that I can eventually come back here or a state school. I just want people who really support me outside my f**ed up family or family friends.
Hurtnomore,
Sugar, a 24,000 per year school would be NICE, but if your father refuses to pay for it, and you are not able to pay for it (at least not right now) you are ON YOUR OWN….and that’s what I’ve been trying to stress to you, is that if YOUR FATHER PAYS, then he WILL have some control over seeing your grades, and other things…that is just the way life is. The old “golden rule” which is “HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES!” So if you want to live by your OWN RULES, then you must be the one to pay your own way.
I would suggest that you get your stuff together and make arrangements to find a place to live and a job….while you may resent your dad having a new house and a new car and still refusing to pay for your school, unless the law says he must (and my guess is that there is not a law that says he MUST pay for your school) then you have to live independently for a couple of years (your school financial aid counselor should tell you how long you have to be independent) before ONLY your income will be considered in grants and loans….in them meantime, you will be getting some VALUABLE experience in working in the “real adult world” and in how to manage your finances and so on.
Since you are NOT YET 26 it is possible your father MIGHT carry you on his health insurance so that you don’t have to pay for health insurance, but again….he may demand some control for this PRIVILEGE, as he is NOT required to do so…since you are 18 you are legally an ADULT.
As far as “telling the truth” and your parents lies are believed, just stay away from anyone you don’t want to tell things to your parents or listen to your parents’ lies. Just take your own fate into your own hands and live your own life. Then YOU are in control. Good luck.