Most of the time we spend with sociopaths is spent in confusion. They tell us that they love us, while they cheat on us and take our money. They tell us that everything will be wonderful while our lives are falling apart. They tell us they’re sorry and will never do it again, yet they do it again, and again, and again.
We ask ourselves—what in the world is going on here?
They explain it all away. The explanation seems to make sense. But something still isn’t right, and they still don’t stop the behavior that makes us believe we are losing our minds.
There must be a reason. We wonder if they’re depressed, or bipolar, or they have low self-esteem. We’ve been told that they were abused as children. They overindulge in alcohol or drugs, and we’re sure that if they can only overcome their addiction, they’ll change.
It never happens.
We can’t figure it out.
The words that fit the behavior
Then someone says, “It sounds like he (or she) is a sociopath.” Or maybe they even use the word “psychopath.”
Sociopath! They’re the guys on The Sopranos.
Psychopath! They’re all serial killers.
But something tells us to do more research, so we go online. We buy a book. And there they are, the people who are driving us insane, perfectly described in the symptoms of a sociopath.
At Lovefraud, we hear it all the time:
“He’s got every symptom on the list!” “The description fits her to a T!”
Finally, we have a name for that person’s problem. He or she is a sociopath. A psychopath. An antisocial.
Finally, it all makes sense. The lies, the emptiness, the remorselessness, the evil. There is a reason. It is not us. It is a personality disorder.
Naming the disorder makes all the difference. Finally, we begin to understand what we are dealing with. This allows us to begin recovery.
Learn about them in school
Why do we spend so much time in confusion? Because there is no education program about this personality disorder for the general public.
I remember a story from the tsunami that struck Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India and Thailand on December 26, 2004. A vacationing family was on the beach there when the ocean suddenly receded. The little girl of the family had just finished studying tsunamis in school, and learned that the receding ocean meant that a wall of water would soon come crashing into the shore. She told her family, and they escaped to higher ground.
Sociopaths cause personal tsunamis for all of their victims. The sociopaths/ psychopaths/ antisocials of the world cause a huge percentage of all human pain, damage and devastation, yet most of the population does not know they exist. Why? Why don’t we learn about these predators in school? If we did, when we saw the symptoms, we could escape.
Arguing over terminology
Part of the problem with trying to educate people about these predators is that the mental health professionals do not agree on what to call it. First it was moral insanity. Then it was psychopath. Then it was sociopath. Then it was antisocial personality disorder.
The professionals can’t agree on how to define and diagnose the disorder, either. The American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), is supposed to be the bible for clinicians. I find its description of antisocial personality disorder to be vague and difficult to understand.
Dr. Robert Hare’s description of the symptoms of a psychopath—the term he uses—is easier to understand, and the test he developed has been consistently shown to be useful in predicting recidivism among criminals. But Hare’s criteria and evaluation are resisted by many psychiatrists. From what I’ve heard, the basis for much of the disagreement is political.
Mental health profession should come to agreement
I believe this lack of agreement is a travesty, and the professionals are actually contributing to the confusion in which the predators operate. In a way, that makes the mental health professionals complicit in the havoc wreaked by the sociopaths/ psychopaths/ antisocials—whatever we call them.
Lovefraud calls on the professional associations to solve this problem. The American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry—please, come to an agreement.
Make a decision. Define this disorder. Publicize the symptoms. Let the general public learn what to look out for.
It would help all of us keep the sociopaths/psychopaths/antisocials, the human tsunamis, from upending our lives.
Hiya JSmith. You sound really upbeat and in the pink!! I dont mind people asking about the treatment. Well, infact, it finished about a month ago and I am now over the tired bit and twiddling my thumbs at home, my energy has returned and I am wanting to get back to work.
Sounds like moving home has done you good? Yes, things have happened in 5 days, as you saw, Bird has given birth successfully. I went to a 2 day music fest last weekend and danced so much to the old ska reggae, that when I got home, I could barely walk up the stairs and I had to come down the stairs backwards (my knees). Then, I was telling my daughter about conscious tshirts at the festival, one said GET A LIFE – (Not available on TV) and at that moment my TV broke down!! Ha.
Good to see you back JSmith – I missed you too (((hugs)))
Yes, I am in the pink. And that’s also my favorite color!…haha.
I’ve heard from a few people that the treatment is onerous, can be incredibly fatiguing, but of course, you’re a super strong lady and I see from ^ there your strength has returned. YaY! That’s a relief to here, hon. **HUG**
I think this whole “loving me” business is getting waaaay out of hand for me. I’m actually feeling a bit cocky sometimes..haha. Not really, but it has become possible for me to generate so much positive receptivity from folks through the process of really showing up for myself, really loving me and being my best friend, ya know what I’m saying?
This profound realization, expressed by the LoveFraud mistresses and on Melanie Evan’s website, has totally changed my perspective in regards to who I am, what I need to continue my happy journey in life.
I’ve never, ever felt so whole, so darn good, so confident, so loving and loved in my entire life. So much so, I just want to share it with as many wonderful people as I can. Does that sound ridiculous? Sappy? Well, I can’t help it!…haha. It’s my nature to love deeply and truly as I know the same goes for you and all the LoveFraud peeps.
I bless this website for all the tremendous, priceless wisdom/knowledge I have gained while blogging here.
hmmm….I read the past few comments from all of you and a few thoughts occured to me of which I dont really have answers for.
1. Are we required to forgive someone who hasnt sincerely repented? My S also would call up crying and saying he’s “sorry”, but the behavior never changed which leads me to believe that he may have been A. temporarily sorry or B. lying thru his teeth. Repentance is different than remorse in that there is changed behavior. With remorse the behavior doesnt last long.
2. WWJD in dealing with these people? (get behind me satan???)
3. If part of the reasons for their behavior is genetically imposed, then how do we answer the question that if God created them like that, how should we view them? Evil to me, is not a genetic thing. Its a choice, an action. Just as love is a verb, so is evil a verb. If its a choice then they are accountable to God. Let Him deal with them. But, if they are born that way…I dont know what to think.
You all are so wise and I LOVE reading your comments. You lend SO much insight into something that Im just now coming to terms with.
Dear Indiechick,
I ruminated over those same three questons for months and months. I talked to several very wise and learned ministers. I was brought up in a family where the women protected the Ps and their behavior and if you made a noise about their behavior YOU were the one punished.
My mother who professes “Christianity” and notice I did put it in quotes because I no longer view her “Chrisitianity” but as religious abuse. HER take on “forgivness” was that you had to PRETEND IT DIDN’T HAPPEN, which means never refer to it, never let on it happened at all.
Well, in my studying post-massive-p-trauma in our family which included my mother, and me talking to all these wise and learned people and reading the Bible with “new eyes” I came to a FIFFERENT conclusion about forgiveness.
To me FORGIVENESS is getting the bitterness out of our own hearts at what they have done. It is an ACT. Not a gushy feeling just as in “Love your enemies” doesn’t mean to have a guishy feeling in your heart for them but to ACT nice to the not vengefully.
Jesus himself was angry at the Pharisees in the temple, and he told us to “be angry and sin not” so anger itself it not sin. We are told to “not let the sun go down upon your wrath” Wrath is not JUST anger, but vengeful hateful bitter anger, the kind most of us have felt toward our Ps. THAT kind of anger eats at US. It doesn’t hurt the P.
As for TRUSTING the aubser, look at the story of Joseph in Egypt. His brothers had intended to kill him in their jealousy and ended up selling him off. He had long ago seen that it was God’s purpose for him to be in Egypt, but when his brothers showed up he did NOT immediately say “WOW, you are here, I am Joseph” Ins tead he TESTED them to see what kind of men they had becomein the many years between then and when he had last seen them. He saw that they had changed and so he revealed himself to them.
There is a thread here on what a REAL apology is back some months ago. And reading that made me see that while the repentence that we would like to see is NOT there, will never be there, we must get the bitterness out of our hearts or it will eat US. BUT it does NOT mean that we have to trust them again if they are not worthy of trust. In I Cor.5:9-13 Paul tells the people that they should NOT EVEN EAT with the kind of people that the Ps are. If that is not NC I don’t know what is.
for questions 2 and 3 I will answer them together. I do believe that there are certain things that impact our behaivors and our choices that are genetic. First off, a person with the alocoholic genes that make them easily addicted to alcohol have a CHOICE TO DRINK OR NOT. They are not forced to drink by h aving this gene. They have a CHOICE. Now, it may be that I don’t hae those gene or genes and I can drink in moderation and still control it, okay where that one “temptation” is I have it easier than you do, but we BOTH HAVE CHOICES. I do not believe that the Ps, even though they have the genetic TENDENCY to be Ps HAVE NO CHOICES. They have the same choices to choose right or wrong that we do at some point in their lives they chose to harden their hearts. I DO BELIEVE however, that after aperiod of time, that their mind set becomes permanently set and that there is NO chance that they will “see the light.” Just as Pharoah hardened his heart even after seeing the miracles in Egypt, so the Psychopaths harden their hearts and sear over their souls so that no love can get it.
I also think that many of them are desperately unhappy, they seem to me to know that we have “something” they don’t have and they would like to have it, but aren’t sure what it is. So, they go from relationships to relationship looking for that “magic” thing but they never find it because they are BLIND to love, blind to bonding with fellow humans.
What would Jesus do? Probably the same thing we do, do the best you can but then when you see that they are not interested in changing their ways, turn and walk away. Sad that any human would do that to themselves.
When Jesus on the cross said “Father forgive them, they know not what they do” I am not sure if he was referring to the Roman soldiers that nailed him to the cross or to the crowd screaming for his execution, because none of THOSE people did know what they were doing, but I am SURE he was NOT referring to the Pharisees who started the big bruhaha because they DID know what they were doing. They were psychopaths and hypocrits, who did know right from wrong, and they were furious that Jesus had called them what they were “whited tombs” filled inside with rotting men’s bones, but all nice and neat and painted on the outside. They did not like that one bit. They KNEW right from wrong.
The Psychopaths KNOW right from wrong, they are not psychotic and out of touch with reality, they don’t hear voices from Mars or theTV telling them about doom and gloom. These people are crafty and cunning and mean as a sack of snakes (or worse). There are many many passages in the Bible that tells us to avoid these people, and leave the vengence to God.
It took me a long time to realize that it did NOT say “avoid these people unless they are blood relatives” I looked my mother in the face as I left and said to her, “If you were a real Christian I would not want to be one.” Fortunately, I had a wonderful Christian step father who was a wonderful role model for me as far as Christian love is concerned. I no longer live in holy terror of my mother’s ANGRY GOD, but I have a LOVING HEAVENLY FATHER who is there for me, who I believe saved my life from my son and his minions, including my mother, last year. Now, when I study the Bible I read it with new eyes and new insights.
There are so many examples of people, and they are not just stories, but are about how to live with the Narcissists and Psychopaths and how to respond when we realize that we have sinned as well. Look in Samuel at King David’s behavior dealing with and hiding from Saul, and then again how David responded when he was weeping for Absolom and his general cmae in and told him how ungrateful he was acting, weeping for the son not the people who had sacrificed their sons to save his life. He got up and repented. The general said “II perceive that if the young man had lived and we had all died, that you would have been WELL PLEASED.” When I read that it went straight to my heart because I realized that my own mother would have been well pleased if I had died, as long as it meant my P-son would get out of prison and come live with her before she died. And I do believe she would have shortly died, because he would have killed her to get access to her money sooner than a natural death would allow.
Anyway that is my “sermonette” for today, but I hope it answers your questions at least as far as MY opinion is concerned. I am sure there are others here who will have differiing ones so maybe you can find some answers that will fit YOU. (((hugs))))
Wow Oxdrover. Makes total sense. Thank you for clarifying that to me.
I think my S took advantage of my Christian compassion…but then…I laid down my life for a pig…only to have him trample me under his hooves. I think its best to just dust my feet off and move on. I read an exposition on that passage once btw. The jewish act of “dusting off one’s feet” was akin to standing with your back to them and kicking dust back at them. In other words…its a politically correct way of telling them to f**k off. Its amazing what happens when you look at scripture in its historical jewish cultural context. It takes on a whole new meaning sometimes lol.
Dear Jane Smith. WOW you are just jumping all over the place. I am happy to see you again and so full of it!!!! What is in the water there where you are??I have been thinking of you and wondering how your move went, sounds like you are great. And as for your LoveFraud addiction? EYES OPENED brought that subject up a few day’s ago, she was concerned about her compulsion to get on Lovefraud and is worried that maybe she has traded addictions. Or maybe staying here is keeping us from moving on or keeping the (P)’s in our head. I thought long and hard about that, I know what she was trying to communicate. But I learn so much from reading these post from everybody. I wont say screennames because I might leave someone out. But I will testify right here and now, had I not found this place and the people here I might be in a loony bin or worse. I need this connection with the reality of what has happened to all of us, in different ways, different story’s but all here finding truth and knowledge. I am sure that I have PTSD. When I first came here the anxiety and confusion was my exsistence. With educating myself about personality disorder’s and being here at LF, I am healing. I still have a long way to go, I can’t undo 53 years of manipulation in 3 months. My mother is a narcissit in every sense of the word. The trauma she has brought upon me and anyone that loved her will leave scar’s forever. But I understand now, I know what she is and what motivates her. She is in a rest home now and her roomate is blind, a very sweet inteligent blind lady. One of my last visit’s with my mother I commented on how nice this blind lady is, my mother said (I hate that bitch), I asked why? She said (She can’t see how beautiful I am) that has always been my mother’s total exsistence, Her outward beauty, there is nada, zilch, not one thing beautiful inside her, never has been never will be. No one will visit her now, she is left alone to look in the mirror. How sad. Jane your comment in one of your recent post ( The creatures of doom will fail..and fail again..and again..untill they are withered, miserable, nihilistic, souless freaks left out in the frigid darkness, alone forever staring at us as we are living joyously in the blinding light of goodness). Now GIRL!!!!I like that!!!! That is what I hope for my X(P), I know that is cruel for me too say. But he does not deserve anything good. They have created their own hell and by damn They ain’t gonna pull us down with them. I am beginning to forgive myself, but I will never forgive them, the (N) and the (P)…………..
Dear Indiechick,
The story about “cast not your pearls before swine, least they trample them into the mire and then turn and rend (tear) you is another very good one, especially if you understand swine.
Swime can’t possibly appreciate pearls if you offer them pearls, they want FOOD, so since the pearls aren’t what they want, they will be angry and disappointed and belive me, swine CAN REND you. WE cast our PEARLS OF LOVE before theh Ps (swine) and siince they see no value in it, they are bitterly disappointed and turn on us.
There are so many stories in the Bible that you can see are meant for US to help US to live in the world with people we can’t control, but advises us to “get away from” evil people and tells us what their characteristics are.
I found that praying for my mother helped me to get the bitterness out of my own heart for her, and believe me it isn’t an easy or “final” process, but staying away from her (NC) helps me not become riled up again by just her presence and her lack of repentence. When I started I said theprayer aloud, and I know in my heart when I asked God to bless her I DID NOT MEAN IT, and I knew that God knew I didn’t mean it, but I was doing what was RIGHT even though I didn’t want to. Eventually though, it DID help me to actually want his blessings for her. Whether she will take them or not is up to her, not me.
There was a time I will admit I hated her for what she had done to me, betrayed me. She even asked me if I hated her and I told her yes. But the hate was the result of my injury, my wound, and as I began to pray FOR HER I felt better.
The precepts in the Bible are not for the benefit of others, but for OUR BENEFIT. It isn’t just an arbitrary set of rules to follow to “take the fun out of life” as so many people seem to think, but one in which there is a guide to a GOOD and HAPPY and peaceful life.
Henry, I feel for you bro about your mom, mine is in the same spot as yours, no one wanting to visit her, alone and feeling bitter. Unfortunately, that is the consequence of a life lived for YOURSELF ONLY and not caring about the hurt you inflict on others.
Henry, “forgiving” them does not mean forgetting, it means getting the bitterness out of your heart—see how bitter your mother is? I know you don’t want to be like that, you aren’t like that. It will take time, but do dear get that bitterness out of your sweet soul. Not yet maybe, but the time will come I know…but forgiving them doesn’t mean that you trust them or forget what they did. It just means that you don’t let them drag you into their version of HELL and bitterness. (((hugs))))
JaneSmith and Henry,
It’s funny you mentioned wondering if you were getting addicted to LF.
I did that for awhile about 6 months ago. At that point, I could still keep up with all the posts although it was hard. At this point, I can no longer keep up. Also, I wasn’t ready for dating then. Now, I feel ready though I do feel kind of damaged but I am trying.
For a brief period during my “addiction” I realized that maybe I was reading too much about this subject because I had about a 2 week period of time where I thought that all men out in public looked like a predator. I felt that they were all leering at women and “taking” something that wasn’t being “offered.” I was feeling really agiatated, stressed and exausted during this time I think because I was on guard all the time.
This did pass, thankfully.
And, I have been starting to get back to my hobbies and that has provided me with healthy time to think about something else.
Sociopath’s are everywhere, but there are still normal people out there too and I was over doing it.
Dear Indie, The act of forgiveness needs some understanding, I think. It doesnt mean discounting what they did, but it doesnt mean acting on it either. If they are TRULY sorry, they would have to apologise deeply, they would have to give full explanations as to why they acted that way, they would have to go extra miles to prove that they will never do it again. Infact to do these things, they would have to have a sense of decency about themselves and compassion for others. In my experience, VERY FEW people apologise for anything these days – many people are more concerned with letting themselves off the hook. Remember Oxy’s cookie jar story?
To JaneSmith. Your pink fluffy loving effervescence/radiance is glowing through my screen and its lovely. Dont let ANYONE rain on your parade. Yes I like pink too (baby pink) and I wear it with black. I’m glad you got alot of insights from Melanie’s website, I keep meaning to get her books.