By | October 25, 2012 31 Comments

Mothers of boys accused of murder

By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)

Sometimes I have felt like I was totally alone in having a son (child) who was capable of horrible things. Sometimes I have felt like I was alone in turning my son in to police for the crimes he committed. Though the crime I turned my son in for was for theft, I still felt alone in doing so, and was criticized by people, even family members, for doing it.

However, two recent stories have ripped my heart out. I had been following the case of the missing 12 year old New Jersey girl, but the alleged murderers were caught and charged. Their mother turned them in to police. Here is the most recent news:

Teens accused of killing Clayton 12-year-old Autumn Pasquale showed two sides to town residents, on

And then there’s the awful case from Colorado of the missing girl whose body was found dismembered:

Jessica Ridgeway murder suspect confessed to mother, sources say, on

Even I can’t even imagine just what courage it took for those mothers to contact police to tell them they thought their sons were the guilty parties in such horrible crimes.

My son accused of murder

When the Sgt. Joe Decorte contacted me to tell me that my son Patrick was arrested for murdering Jessica Witt, age 17 in January 1992, I went immediately into denial. It could not be true! I locked myself in my house for three months, seeing no one except the family that lived with me and my mother and my step-father, taking no telephone calls and refusing to believe what Sgt. Decorte had told me, yet knowing it was probably true. I wished I could change places and have my son dead and the girl in jail for his murder.

Of course Patrick, when he would call me collect from the jail where he was being held, denied he had anything to do with the crime ”¦ later I found out, when I finally read the police report nearly 20 years later, that he actually gave a statement and admitted to the police that he had killed her. Even after his trial, when his attorney told me what the “evidence” against him presented at the trial was (he couldn’t tell me what Patrick had told him in confidence was), I still didn’t want to believe.

Would I, on the basis of a Facebook page, have called police? I wish I could say yes, but I’m not sure what I would have done. I do know that when I saw evidence with my own eyes that my son had stolen, I turned him in, also knowing that as a juvenile, he would only have gotten a sealed record and a “slap on the wrist” that I hoped would “scare him straight.”


While I feel great sorrow for the parents of the murdered girls, I also feel great compassion for the mothers of the boys who allegedly committed these crimes. I feel great compassion that they were put in such situations that they were required by their own moral compasses to pick up the phone and call the police and turn in their own sons for possibly being the killers of these young girls.

No matter how “bad” our situation is, there are always those that are equally as bad, or worse. There are always others who are suffering as we suffered because of “man’s inhumanity to man,” and because of the acts of horror committed by those we love or to those we love.

Each act of evil committed by any person (psychopath or not) not only affects the actual victim, but those who loved the victim, and also by those who loved the abuser.

Right now there are approximately two million people in prison and five million on parole or probation for crimes of various levels. Statistics and research show that a high percentage of people in prison are psychopaths, or at least very high on the psychopath check list-revised. Each of those criminals has victims, and the victims have families, but the criminals also have families who are saddened or destroyed by the crimes of those they love. The waves of pain radiate out like ripples from a pebble thrown into a pond.

We are not alone in being the victims of evil people, and we are not alone if we are among those who love(d) those evil abusers.

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How hard. And so complicated.

I know that there is a genetic component to personality disorders and psychopathy. I know (now) that I married and had kids with one.

I also know that one of my 3 kids does not have an abundance of empathy. OK, let’s just say he has less empathy than I would like to see in him. Hmmm…. maybe I should say that at times I get a sense of dread that he “lacks” empathy and I don’t want that to be true. I have known this for years and for many of those years I thought I could “teach” empathy to him. Now, I’m not so sure. I have tried very hard.

He seemed to be a very normal, loving baby, toddler, preschooler, attached to me, and with many smiles and hugs and display of normal feelings.

He has been jerked around by (abused by) his father at times. (I say that matter of factly though it is horrible).

Something changed for my son around the age of 13, and I still don’t know what it was. He became less kind. This was during the time I was believing I was doing the right thing by enforcing (forcing) his time with his father (shared custody). I had to really push him at times (verbally) to go on his visitation. I feel so bad about this now. At the time, I thought I was doing the “right” thing and also it was the legal thing. I feel so stupid now for not allowing him to just refuse to go, and stay with me. I understand the pressure cappucino queen was under, to take her Prince for the visitation… there is/was pressure from the legal system, threats from the dad to take legal action if I don’t comply, verbal rages from him in my home if the kids didn’t go with him, and condescending pressure from the therapists advising our family, who didn’t support me/the kids, and accused me of parental alienation. Very complicated.

I feel so responsible, such regret, for forcing my children. But I also know that I was not really free to choose.

I have wondered, could it be more of an Asperger’s thing that my son has? Not that I want that for my child, either, but it is not evil, like a personality disorder is. The whole thing is very confusing.

He has times when he seems to have empathy and feelings, and other times when he doesn’t. I, his mother, find it confusing. And also I don’t want to believe that he is like his dad.

I feel bad for my part in mating with a deviant spath (unknowingly, innocently) and producing a child who looks to be deficient in some of these important human qualities.

The whole thing is just tragic.

The jury is still out, for what kind of person my son will turn out to be. I always hope and pray for the best, as I’m sure every mother does.

What a lot of courage it takes to turn in one’s own child for a crime.

I can see how denial happens.



I have always had the utmost respect for the position you have taken NOT denying a duck is duck.

While we write about the fence riders and the damage their position can cause, there is not enough support for the parent who holds their child/ren accountable for their behavior especially when that child is dangerous.

I saw both stories this week of the mothers turning in their sons. I commend both of them. I thought of you both times. I know that you could relate to their feelings better than I.

It was refreshing hearing all reports seeming to appreciate these mothers but after hearing your story and imagining how difficult this has been for you, your story made me stop and really think about how brave these mothers are.
I understand better how they endure an ongoing loss and even ridicule from society and family members for holding the sons accountable and TURNING THEM IN. Nobody really knows how they would handle this situation unless they live it.

Child rearing is much harder than we think prior to accepting the challenging job. I can only hope I raise my child to the best of my ability and if I am ever (God forbid) put in a position such as you and the mothers who have had to face this reality, that I rise to the situation and take a position as respectable as you and they have. I don’t envy it but I sure do appreciate it.

It is another life experience that boggles the mind of those who have not lived it. Just like your life being multiple lifetime movies. 🙂



Yup yep yep yep. I can relate to much of what your post says.

I believe the courts force us to betray our very reality and thus betray our children. We are told to force visitation and act as if it’s best or ELSE. The position it puts the mother usually or father in at times, is a catch 22. You cannot win…………..


It must take a person who has feelings and a conscience to do the right thing, even if it is your child.

As I read these comments, it saddened me to realize that when my P sister attacked me and my son, my S mother not only stood by her, she assisted in the attacks.

Later, on a difficult day when I was struggling over what they had done to us, their own flesh and blood, I called my mother to demand why. Her answer was, “What have we ever done to hurt you?”

Any biological creature can have offspring. What makes them true mothers and fathers are the feelings that they are capable of having for others. The others are just biologically replicating themselves, which flies in the face of the social myth that all families need to be together.

That statement sounds so harsh to me. I guess there is a part of me that still wants to believe that all mothers are mommies and all fathers are daddies, but in the end, there are those with offspring who admire the harm their children do.

So, yes, we are judged very harshly when we do not maintain that myth, as I have been because I “won’t let it go” or “forgive them; they’re blood.” They’d just as soon as see me dead, but most people cannot or will not believe that.

There is nothing magnanimous about foregoing wanting to live, survive, and being afraid of someone capable of murder or other great harm. Wanting peace and safety is healthy behavior. It’s our right just as much as it is the right of any other human being.

We drew the short straw, but that doesn’t mean we have to sacrifice ourselves on some warped altar of societal expectations because our enduring the horrific gives others a false warm and fuzzy feeling those sorts of things will never happen to them. We are entitled to protect ourselves and to live without fear or in chaos. Nobody has the right to deny us that.

People who turn in others have souls, feelings, and instincts to survive.

I never want anybody else to go through what my son and I did. Just because we are related by blood doesn’t mean that we are the same as these people. We didn’t cause their behavior, we can’t control it, and we certainly will never be able to cure it. It’s OK that we reach out for help.

God support, strengthen, comfort, and keep safe those having the courage to step forward to stop the harm and do the right thing.

Ox Drover

I do have so much compassion for the parents of the murderers, as much as I have for the parents and families of the girls they senselessly killed. ALL of the families involved are DESTROYED.

There will not be comforting people come to the families of the killers, bringing casserole dishes and planning a memorial service for the “death” of their children. Instead, they will hide behind locked doors with the media on their door step. There will be news stories of their “monster” sons and candle lit memorials of the victims, but no candle light consolation for the parents of the killers.

People will blame them for “not raising them right” but I have a feeling that these mothers did the best they could, and that they acted honorably. God bless the families of all concerned.



Do they do any background research on murderers? I heard one of the fathers of the boys (not sure which story) has an extensive criminal record.

I believe it is time they research that. With all the money our government is throwing at educating the pedophile and abuser while touting rehabilitation of the criminal mind, I would think we should be talking to their families and get timelines of those that kill and those who are repeat offenders of anything. Have they been involved in a “high conflict” custody battel where a parent loses all right to raise the child how they believe is best? Has the child shown signs since birth or are there family members diagnosed with psychopathy? I say all of this as the psycho father of my child “self reported” to the psychiatrist or whoever he saw in prison and psycho is pathological. I did not see any records showing any of his past history except the sentencing report done by a probation investigator who said “he has become more predatory in his crimes and doesn’t feel he should be on the streets”. ….. With that, I knew they looked at his criminal history but in his booklet of certificates he got in prison, nothing looked like an evaluation of how he came to be where he was………..

I am just wondering if anyone came to you for information about your son?


OxD, thank you for posting this article. You have posted about your personal experiences with regard to the reaction of the community, and I cannot even imagine the horror and pain that you suffered.

I have compassion for the mothers of these boys, as well – they certainly didn’t raise these boys up to take lives and they stepped up and made the difficult call. Nobody wants to acknowledge that their offspring is dangerous or a criminal. Even when people know, beforehand, that their child is a danger, NOBODY LISTENS!!!

What a sad, sad mess……..

Brightest blessings


As a complete aside, are there any support groups or support of some sort for parents whose children have murdered?

Just curious.

Ox Drover


I have honestly thought about forming a support group for parents of criminals, but unfortunately, the “system” encourages families to visit their psychopaths and maintain contact and take the kiddies to prison to visit daddy/mommy no matter what they have done.

I too visited and supported, and sent money and my egg donor hired an attorney to try to get him out on parole…and is still sending him money.

The “system” wants families to “support” the inmates because statistically inmates who have family support and a place to go don’t get into as much trouble as those who don’t, but even still only 40% of ALL inmates finish their parole without doing another felony. DUH!!!

The AVERAGE PCL-R score of all inmates is 22….now that means that half of them are below 22 and half above. It takes 30 to be considered a “psychopath” but “normal” is 4 or 5 as a score so at least 50% of the inmates (60% if you consider that 60% FAIL parole and do another felony) are going to stay or return to crime. So the 40% who finish up their parole may be the ones on the low end of the PCL-R scores but I don’t know if anyone has researched that end of it.

The religious group that Patrick is involved with has a recidivism rate of 10% but I think it is because they pick off the “cream of the crop” of the inmates who would do okay anyway. Patrick joined because he knows it “looks good” on his “resume” in prison and he gets the perks of going to “religious” services etc.

One of the ministers in this group was a correspondent of mine for 8 years but he has turned his back on me now because I am so NEGATIVE. LOL Also, he wrote me that he thinks because he spiritually supported me and corresponded with me that he and his family are in danger from Patrick. Patrick does NOT know he corresponded with me so there is NO way he is in danger from Patrick. So not sure what the deal is but he no longer returns my e mails now. But I AM grateful for the support he was back in the Summer of Chaos when I was living in hiding in the RV with son D.

Those people who keep the “faith” that “God can change anyone” and yet refuse to believe that there are some people that don’t want God to change them. What is the saying “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

While I DO have faith that if we allow it, God can touch our hearts, but if we A) don’t believe in God and B) have no conscience God is not going to reach down and Zap a conscience into someone no matter how much someone preaches to them. Or shows them “unconditional love.”

Look at how many “ministers’ and “priests” have abused children and other members of their congregations —wolves in sheep’s clothing. Jesus said the Church would be full of them and to EXPECT that. So you know what, He was RIGHT!

Jerry Sandusky is a perfect example of someone pretending to be “good” and “do good” who used that as a CLOAK for his evil.

Look how Paterno and the others KNEW what was going on and kept secret the problem. Look how many of the churches knew and did nothing. Ditto in other groups as well.

I hope that is changing now and will continue to change but I doubt it.

For so long babies were thought to be born “blank slates” and parents were blamed for the kids turning out bad. My family DNA is RIDDLED on both sides with psychopaths…and my son’s family on his father’s side is as well. Yet, it is only NOW that there is the slightest idea that DNA may have some effects on “how a kids turns out” but sometimes a kid from 2 bad parents turns out okay, and sometimes a kid from 2 good parents turns out to be a monster.

I don’t know what the DNA on those 3 boys was/is but I know their mothers made a hard decision to turn in their kids for MURDER. I turned mine in for THEFT. And supported him even after I knew for sure he had killed….but I finally SAW THE LIGHT when he bragged about “how much worse my crime was than even the cops knew” and believe me the cops knew a pretty awful story. When I first actually READ the police report 3 years ago or so my heart almost stopped. So I can’t imagine what COULD have been worse.

Those parents of the children who were killed are grieving and have the support of their community and the law enforcement.

The parents of the kids who are killers have NO support from the community, or law enforcement. .I wish there were a group for the support of the parents of criminals. But I’ve not had any luck in finding anyone interested in joining—all the ones I know that have criminal offspring are still SUPPORTING the belief that “Johnny is gonna change, I can’t give up on him, he’s my sooooon”

Maybe if I knew how to set up a blog I could get one going, who knows. I know there are a lot of blogs for support of families of criminals and that ADVISE them HOW TO SUPPORT AND GET THEM HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES. Lots of books on how to wait out a 10, 20 year or longer sentence for your hubby. (head shaking here)



I was thinking the same thing. I know you contacted parents of murdered children and that sounded like a great resource for you and hopefully your position could help those parents out also. Maybe they could help set something up???

There are the two mothers you wrote about plus the Jerrod Laughnor (sp?) who shot up Gabby Gifford and her supporters at the grocery store in Tucson, AZ and the family of that kid who did the movie theater massacre in CO. Unfortunately this is a very needed support group as I have heard about those parents in hiding.

You would be an excellent person to start that or at least be a speaker for someone who began a support group for those families. Really Lovefraud is good a resource but you really have a handle on how the community shuns you and can speak first hand on the isolation of the parent.


OxD, even when I didn’t want to believe that my eldest son was permanently disturbed, there was always that part of my mind that was begging with me to just accept the truths. I didn’t “like” the truths, but it would have been an even more painful experience, if that makes any sense.

I have no idea what it feels like to experience the loss of a child, under any circumstances. But, I know what it feels like to know that the extraordinarily beautiful child that I brought into the world had developed into a monster. And, although denial was tempting and alluring, I sort of knew that pretending that there were other explanations for his actions would not be of any benefit.

OxD, I think that it would be a long-overdue benefit to the parents and family members of criminals to experience support, in some way. The woman whose husband murdered the Amish children, in cold blood, and then shot himself – I can’t imagine what she has to awaken to, every morning. We NEVER hear about the OTHER lives that were destroyed. And, those people need help. They need help in a BIG way. They need to know that they’re not responsible for the actions of their loved one.

Perhaps, OxD, among other things, this might be what your experiences were intended to lead you to? I dunno. I just know that this is something that is desperately needed.

Brightest blessings


The shunning hurts so bad. I have experienced that when going through a divorce, by people who judged me for getting a divorce, or by people who don’t know what to say to me, so they just stay away, or people who maybe think my divorce will be contagious to THEM so they stay away to keep themselves safe.

It happens to cancer patients, too.

People going through something, no matter what that something is (cancer, miscarriage, death of a loved one, divorce, having a family member charged with murder), it is SO helpful to have people stay by you to be witnesses to your pain.

I think maybe it is hard to be a good witness, if you don’t know how. A lot of people want to fix things or hurry it along or try to figure out whose fault it is. None of those things is helpful.

The whole experience is an unfolding process. The person who is going through it is processing it…. the witness’s role is compassionate and validating observer and comforter. To provide a safe place for the unfolding of the experiencer’s processing. Without meddling, interfering, trying to fix, trying to judge. It is important for the experiencer to know that she/he is allowed to feel whatever they happen to feel, and that it is OK to let the process happen as it will. It is a way of knowing that you are fine, nothing wrong with you, you are connected to others, you are connected to your source. The love of God can flow through these gifted, compassionate witnesses. On the other hand, blocking the process by shunning a person, or by interfering…. is not of God.

I am quite sure that this is one of the lessons I have needed to learn. My experience being shunned has been helpful to me. And of course, I’m still learning. 🙂

I had a waking vision which I may have shared here before, which helped a great deal: in this vision, although I am 50 now, I was 28 years old. I was surrounded by 3 beings in female form, who were genderless but just appeared female for my comfort, because I was naked. They had wrapped me in a soft, light bluish green blanket, to protect me from the gaze of people who did not have my best interest at heart. They were brushing my hair, which was long, lustrous, thick and reddish brown. I was a bit uncomfortable with their attention because I am used to being the nurturing one. They shushed me and said that now it was my turn to be taken care of. They told me that I was a beautiful and perfect spirit, and that maybe I had forgotten that. They said that I absolutely glowed and shined and had a bright light, but that it is not for EVERYONE to see (hence the blanket). But mostly they just brushed my hair and allowed me to have a safe place to process my painful feelings without having to stuff them or be judged for them or told to hurry up and get over them.

See what I mean?

20 years,
that is such a nice vision. I’m glad you are able to soothe and comfort yourself that way. That is something I’m still trying to learn, myself. I know that visualizations are so powerful, they can affect your physiology and your health.


Thanks, Skylar. In this case, this vision “came to me” or was “given to me.” I cannot say from where (from God? from spiritual guides? from “higher self?” from the creative/emotional part of my mind — the place where inspiration comes from?).

I do also try to “visualize” but I am not so good at that. This was different, like a waking dream — I had no awareness of creating it; it played across my awareness for a minute, and then it was over (but stayed with me).

These experiences do not happen OFTEN to me, so when they do, I take them as profound gifts. And try to figure out what they mean, if I can.



I had an awake dream or account or whatever it was after my great grandmother died. I had not experienced anything like this. It was very loving. I was given a message to not fear death. My body was just the vehicle or vessle in which my spirit and soul was in for this lifetime and it would be discarded at the end. I was heading into a purifying or purification process. Not to fear it. It was like a knowing and peace came over me. I didn’t share this wit anyone for over 3 years as I didn’t think anyone would understand. It was as if I was being told we all go through it and we all are here for lessons to purify. ??

Prior to that I could never understand how people would talk about death if they would be cremated or buried. It was a very uncomfortable conversation and suddenly it didn’t matter what happened to my body when I died.

Yours sounds very nurturing and it’s great you were able to see yourself worthy of that. You must’ve needed that validation or something after all you have gone through.

I wish we could have these as needed and maybe that’s what people who are good at meditating experience. I know mine was very impacting and like a knowing without doubt……..I have had others but that one changed something and I was just sitting on my couch doing something as usual. Very odd.


Eralyn, That is a nice message you got in your waking dream. Did you figure out what your purification process was to be?

I ask that because I often feel like what I’ve gone through has been that sort of a process, kind of like fire burning off the things that don’t matter, the distractions, and leaving behind the good stuff…. or being raw material that is then formed into something solid and gleaming and impervious.



I just wrote a big post about what happened to us. How long have you been on solid ground with your case? I just found out at the end of August the judge filed psychos last request as if ignoring him! I am just coming out of the fog. I literally saw myself letting go of a steering wheel and setting it down vvveeerrrrrrryyyyyy slowly and cautiously.

That particular life message was probably in 1993-1994. I have had several occasions where I felt this was a process but I had no idea my lessons would be this harsh.

I asked a friend originally if she’d ever heard of the whole process I was now aware of and she said it was a specific religious belief. I am spiritual and don’t believe in organized religion. I do believe in God. I believe we have experiences in life which lead to a purification of the soul and when we have mastered the lessons our soul is complete and at it’s purist state. I believe it takes many lives. It answered for me the very question of how or why a child may be harmed and I believe spiritually we have all been there at some point learning. It’s horrible but a process which no one person has it worse than another at any point in the process. I also believe I am an old soul. At age 5ish I had a knowing (that’s what I call it) that I had wisdom at that age that some people would not have if they lived to be 85 years old and then died. I didn’t even understand this. I just knew the message. As I got older I heard things that made me understand what it all meant.

I rarely tell people about this…. I have heard from religious people this type of believing goes against the bible which concerns me sometimes but I can’t change these feelings as they weren’t taught to me. It just is for me………



Only recently I have allowed myself to entertain I was “supposed” to go through this. It was horrifying and abuse to the soul. I couldn’t believe “it needed to be” but lately I am feeling I cannot deny it’s necessity. It had to happen. UGH!

Eralyn and 20years,
your stories are freaking me out. I’m SOOOOO glad I didn’t have kids with the spath. Now I know why so many women choose artificial insemination and single motherhood. It’s so much safer!

I’m so sorry for what you’ve both had to go through.

20years, hair falling out may be a symptom of low thyroid. Have you gone to a thyroid specialist to get tested? Stress can bring about low thyroid.

As bad as things have been for us, it does seem as though we were tested and passed and it has made us into stronger, wiser women.



It’s so validating to know other moms who have been terrorized like this. It has been called by professionals who frown upon this abuse of their profession “emotional terrorism”. It is.

My neighbor never had children and she’s been my neighbor prior to my pregnancy. She said I should’ve been given a medal for my “single parenting”. She watched in disbelief as we were taken down this road. Everyone prayed for us as they felt helpless. I told her to NEVER feel bad about not being a mother as you never know what it may bring to your life that you would be forced to endure these days. She agrees. I believe it has actually lifted a burden from her.

My hair on the crown of my head turned completely gray in chunks in a 3 month period…….


I believe that we don’t hear about “the other victims” because it’s convenient for the law and the courts. It means less work and costs for them. It’s an easy solution and if it doesn’t always work, which obviously it doesn’t if 60% of paroles fail, then at least the powers-that-be can boast of doing something right because they can claim that 40%. The problem is that isn’t enough. It’s a huge failure rate.

Oxy mentioned that prisons like the families to be involved because it reduces recidivism. At what cost to the families? The courts and the law do not seem to care.

We are not obligated to accept the status quo. We need to remember how the law and courts have been set up for centuries. They’ve been exclusively male and those males have been educated, wealthy, and landowners ”“ in other words, the elite. Everybody else was chattel, i.e., serfs, laborers, women, and children. The courts and law were heavily skewed in favor of the monied class and still are today.

There are many warnings in the Bible about not associating with certain individuals. Unconditional love is not as unconditional as many assume. It is unconditional only when true repentance is shown and felt. Like the courts and universities, those in power via established churches and the clergy were males. The corruption and power of the church has dominated society for centuries. Go away and practice unconditional love (and stop bothering us with your needs.) The only unconditional love that they had was for themselves.

What we have now, unprecedented in history, is the Internet. Whereas in the past the poor person had to stand hat-in-hand before the law and do what the authorities told him or her, nowadays that is no longer true. Today, laws are posted online. The common man/woman is warning others via relating their experiences or knowledge.

What we have today are ways to bypass the BS being dumped upon us as true. What were the commentators saying during the third debate for President? I heard plenty of them saying that the fact checkers are going to go after that one. Have we ever heard that before? Political campaigns or commentators openly giving credence to fact checkers? Times have changed, people. It is not coming ”“ it is here and will snowball to the point where the people will not be denied. We will be heard. We can double-check and vet claims and statements, and we are.

Where did the premises that “families need to be together” and that “it is sweet when they do for everyone involved” come from? What are they based on? Where are the facts supporting these premises as true? Has anybody asked?

It seems to me they are just words to push the annoying and ugly out of one’s sight. You got problems? Go home and take care of them. You’re failing. I don’t need to deal with you.

No, children do not “need” to go to prison to visit their incarcerated parents. They can, if everyone chooses that, but to be forced to do that because the incarcerated parents have their rights? Bull.

I mentioned elsewhere on LF that we took our best guesses about how things should be socially when we moved from agrarian societies into cities and became urbanized. There were no blueprints for living like that, i.e., large numbers of constantly changing populations with little or no accountability and plenty of opportunities for doing despicable things without being found out.

We took our best guesses. We didn’t know many things.

We need to remember how unsettling all these changes were. Whether we recognized it or not, we were desperate for explanations. Our world was crazy and we wanted somebody to put it back into some sort of a predictable order.

Guess what happened? The mental health field arose. What did we do? We empowered these professionals with providing all the answers because we either didn’t want to be bothered (somebody else could do it) or they sounded like they knew what they were doing. How could we challenge their conclusions and who would do that? The field was too young to prove which things were working, failing, or were not any better than a bunch of hot air.

We did that with physicians as well. We empowered early doctors with mystical qualities and revered them for having infallible knowledge. They became little gods. We did that ”“ and we created monsters. The medical health field has come down from its ivory towers and inflated sense of self, but there is still a sick, symbiotic dynamic going on between the courts and mental health field. “Tell us why! Really, that’s why? GASP!” It’s entertainment, really. A pompous strutting that we are informed and can make the decisions best for all. It’s foolish. “Families need to be together. Parents have a right to their children. Well, most parents don’t abuse their kids.”

We sit by and believe this because that’s what the simply folk used to do when it came to judges, lawyers, and other experts. We add insult to injury by stupidly convincing ourselves that these things will never happen to us and only to other people.

This isn’t to say that all professionals behave or think in this manner. That would be preposterous. I know that they do not. There is wonderful work and research going on. There are many dedicated people trying to help, have ethics, and genuinely care about others. They’re getting burned out, discouraged, and demoralized.

They need our help. They are not better than us. They are one aspect of the solution. We provide another part of the solution by doing what we can. Our voices as bloggers, educators, and activists give them perspectives and ideas that they could never have come up with on their own. We complement them. There simply isn’t enough money and experts to slay our dragons for us. What we can do is write letters, form support groups, and educate.

Donna remarked this past week that there has suddenly been an upturn of interest in our situations by the media. I don’t find that surprising. Why? In part, look at all the true crime stories that are on cable these days and the constant news stories of the horrible crimes people are committing at random or at their loved ones. (Quick aside, maybe that term “loved ones” should be changed. Seems many times that is a misnomer.)

It’s getting worse. How many years ago was it when we recoiled seeing that several people were murdered by an irate gunman. Not that many. Today, it’s another story and what else is happening out there. It isn’t letting up so we’re numbing ourselves to it. It’s getting pretty darn difficult to keep chewing on the straw that these are freak incidents or aberrant humans who will pop up now and then, just not that often.

It isn’t working anymore to keep blaming the families. We’ve looked at those families and found many of them have been suffering in silence because society hasn’t bothered to consider what they are going through. Not all. Certainly there are warped families that take pride in their offspring harming others.

We know that Ps are everywhere. There is nothing wrong with tapping the World on its shoulder. We can tell it to wake up and see things for what they are.

The number of educated people in society, and the types of expertise and knowledge that they have access to, has never existed before.

We are at a place where we can determine which things worked and are working, and which things do not.

We are just as smart as the so-called “experts.” We do not have to buy the BS being handed down to us by elitist judges, clergy, or politicians as this is the way things are, poor simple humans; if only you had our wisdom.

Really? Is that a fact? Well, guess what? We do have the intelligence, wisdom, and experience. We know our rights. You do not have the right to push us aside or walk all over us anymore. You do not have the right to impose harm and fear on me because it is easier on your wallet or you don’t know what to do with these criminals.

If we are the ones who know firsthand what Ps can do and what they are capable of, we should be uniting our voices and offering alternatives to things that are failing humanity.

So Oxy, if you want to start a support group for parents of children who have committed horrendous crimes, don’t let the expectations of the prison stop you. They’re only looking after themselves. Your situation is not a priority of theirs. If a support group for parents of children who committed murder screws up their objectives, then they’ll need to come up with Plan B. There is no reason why innocent people should suffer because it is more convenient and less costly for them.

Not doing anything enables the faulty system to keep stumbling on. I would think it would be less of a drain on you as well if you were involved in something pro-active that helps you and others. I can’t imagine the energy it takes to fight City Hall or argue with the powers-that-be by trying to do things solo.

I’ve found the best way to support me is to gather ideas and strength from others. It helps me to hash things out and refine my thinking. Talking and meeting with others gives me and them more strength. We’ve got collective wisdom and countless years of experience as opposed to my one little lifetime and brain.

Go out and do a lot of good. Start your support group/organization. Be productive. Change your approach to fight the battle. Do a lot of good. Help and comfort others. That’s your nature. Embrace that.

Instead of facing towards prison authorities and parole experts worrying about what they want, turn the other way and focus on what is best for you and people in your situation. If you’re wrong, and you will never be wrong entirely, things will work out. Besides, it’s possible that whatever your group produces will spark ideas in the experts that they would never have come up with had it not been for your insights and efforts.

Take the risk. I bet you’ll be pretty amazed by how strong your arguments become, the love and support that you will feel, and the changes the power of your evolved, collective voices make.



I was quite sure if psycho got any custody and my daughter lived through it, CPS would’ve become involved at his first opportunity. I tried to explain to my family what my fears were and why I knew what the game was. I went to other trials like mine (one mom jumped from her car on the freeway and killed herself who had a trial and lost custody). I had researched everything about this and I knew what was going to happen and the end goal.

Nobody believed in the first year what happened and then the second year and third. It is the most isolating abuse of power. Every mother I know who has been in court with a spath/psycho, has ended up with the CPS nightmare also. It’s one of the tools to obtain sole custody against a mother. There is no due process in family courts. They rape the constitution as they rape us.


Wow G1S,

Would we have ever heard your very valid point of view had it not been for the internet and Donna putting this group together to bring our voices and experiences together? Thank you Donna.

I agree with much if not all of what you are saying.

I would also like to point out that I have backchecked several “experts” who CAN be called to testify for or against you if you are ever found to need one and many have falsified credentials from diploma mills, certifications from false credentialling programs for a fee (I think $350 on average) and if you don’t believe me, look up Emad Tadros from California. He had his cat Zoe (Zoe D Katz) obtain the same credentials the man who decided the fait of his child in his custody case (I am NOT kidding)!! He has exposed this openly and that cat even got a credit card and had a resume showing the cat worked with children at the Tacayllaermai Institute for Children or something like that. Now look at the name of the institute, “I am really a cat” spelled backwards!!!! This is a true horrifying story verfiable online. They did everything in CA to shut Tadros UP! These money mongers are sociopaths!

Emad Tadros is a psychiatrist from the Scripts Institute. Check it out!

We do need to grab control of what we can and know the psychology business has infiltrated religion also. The phony pastor from my family court case, I met at an Assembly of God church and in researching them, I found them to be running very similarly to the family courts. I thought religion didn’t believe in psychology but now our tax dollars are paying anyone (can get ordained online and call yourself Lovefraud religion) who is ‘faith based’ grant money to teach us all how to act right and they already take the publics money tax free in tithings!! Our country would not be broke if not for this slimy business going on.

I hope OxD gets something going for these parents of the murderer even if she helps it into existence. It very well could be the opportunity to find answers others who are book read can’t up with.



I think our spiritual beliefs can evolve over time, as lessons are learned and paradigms are split open. At this time, I pretty much accept that each challenge I go through comes with a corresponding gift of equal measure to the suffering I had to go through.

The CPS stuff ended about a year ago with their finding me “neglectful unsubstantiated” which means I have this on “my record” until my youngest kids are 20 years old (4 years from now). I was told by the CPS lawyer that I should just go away and be glad that they didn’t take my kids away.

Well….. I feel horrible that I have this TOTALLY UNTRUE smear upon my “file.” I want my name cleared. This is like a slime, or a smear, or a taint, or monkeys throwing poop at me that I can’t wash off.

I know that it is. At the same time…. I have chosen to just sit back and wait this out until my youngest are 20.

I know that with this in the file, my ex-spath could if he wants to, open up the case again with a simple phone call.

But I am gambling that he won’t.

I want peace for myself and my children. I am choosing NOT to work WITH other people’s children at this point, because it hurts too much, just the thought that a potential employer could do a background check on me and turn up this “file” full of lies on me. The thought of it picks at the scab — I’m not quite healed. I want to heal.

So I’m concentrating on getting my girls through their last 2 years of high school. Once they are 18, CPS can’t take them away anymore. But I will still have this stupid false allegation/”finding” on my record for 2 more years!!!! What a stupid, stupid system we have.

Anyway…. I’m choosing to view it as they can’t hurt me without my permission. And I’m not giving them permission. I’m going to just live my life, do the gray rock with my ex, teach my girls how to be strong and love life, and focus on what’s most important.

At this time, “fighting” is not what is most important to me.

Even though there is great injustice which needs champions… for today, and the next two years, my focus is going to be on finishing raising my girls.

I also cross my fingers and hope that the spath doesn’t decide to do anything stupid.

I still don’t think he knows how tough I am. I am like steel now, I am so tough. Paradoxically, THIS is the gift I got from this experience. (LOL: the gift of STEEL)



I know moms who’s biggest problem is moving forward from a completely degrading family court file full of lies they want to be cleared of. I have explained they could be an actual saint and it wouldn’t happen.

One mom in particular spent $250,000 + in family court divorce with custody of 2 girls. It’s still listed as parent alienation and the mom has a difficult time accepting it will STAY that way. You get beaten down so much that you submit and survival and healing become the priority. They beat your beliefs right out of you.

I remember thinking it was ludicrous that I had to pay $2,500 to retain a lawyer and take a parenting class for a child who was 10 that I raised single handedly, was on the honor roll and well rounded by all accounts. I have now spent $30,000-40,000 I don’t even know where I got it. This lesson was an assault on my core being.

I understand your position. I am in your position of hoping it’s a cease fire and you’ll get to the end of your sentence at the 18th b-day of the last child.

That documentary will be hand delivered in January of 2013 and I sent a 3 minute description of my case. They say they can do a video onine to include in the movie if you contact Bill Windsor of Lawless America. Safe Kids International is also calling for moms for the media to give a timeline of what happened to them. My daughter put her view of reunification on there. It;s the one that says “Real Weapons Of Mass Destruction”… case you’re interested. 🙂

Hang in there “made of steel” should be your log in name…

Ox Drover

I looked at “Lawless america dot com” and it had a message up from google “this site may be compromised” and I looked at the message and it said the site may have been hacked. I really don’t know what this means but you might want to be careful with that site.



Great! This guy Bill Windsor has gone all around the US in his own vehicle to the capitals of the states and filmed hundreds if not a thousand people who have been harmed by the judicial system. There have been mothers who have lost their children to documented abusers, homeowners who lost their homes in the mortage scam, families who were scammed out of their families inheritance and the list goes on. He had a recording of a judge calling himself God and confronted that judge so I don’t doubt his site has been hacked.

I was dealing with an investigative jounalist, Keith Harmon Snow, who’s email kept getting hacked too. I guess that’s how they try to stop these guys from going forward in their reporting of wrong doing.

Mr. Snow wrote an article after a 5 month investigation of family courts

If you scroll down you’ll see a report on the basic corruption of the family court and another report in Maine, Lori Handrahans case which I followed and emailed with Mr. Snow after his intial report on family courts which is a bit farther down. I watched her case and read all the transcripts as they stole her daughter…. I don’t know how this guy stays positive doing what he does for a living. Lori uncovered a lot of child trafficking.


They need a cable program about these kinds of situations.

If they can so many about murder and fraud, they should have at least one about how people are getting screwed in court and what exactly goes on there.

A program based on real cases. Not a Judge Judy or whoever mouthing off.

They could feature people like Bill Windsor and Mr. Snow.



Those greedy arsholes who are on the court rosters would be dumb enough to sign up for a reality TV series if there’s money in it!! Think about it…….It could be called “reunification in XYZ”. Get who I call the “dirty dozen” in my state to sign up. Heck they have the flashy cars and pllaaaaastic surgery so they’re good to go. They’re so sick they don’t seem to think they’re doing anything wrong. Just show them the $$ they’ll sign.

You know what’s his name, Andy Cohen who does bravo housewives loves casting drama reality when they least expect it.

Ox Drover

Well, here is another article about the guy who killed Jessica Ridgeway, he is suspected in other attempted abductions.

What a scumbucket he is, but I do feel for his mother as well as the mother of the girl he killed


Her grandmother is all wrapped up in needing to forgive this guy? What a waste of energy. I really wish they would stop with the misconception that Christians are supposed to forgive everybody no matter what.

That isn’t what the Bible says. Hello? First there has to be remorse and genuine acknowledgment of the wrong that they have done (sin that they’ve committed) then we forgive unconditionally. I don’t see that understanding becoming universal too quickly and I am sure there will be plenty who disagree with me. To each his own, but to my thinking, what an unnecessary pain on top of eveything else that has already happened. How does one wrap oneself around that your 10-year-old granddaughter was dismembered-by a teenager no less?

I wonder how soon there will be somebody arguing that because he is so young, if he gets therapy, they might be able to save him to make him a productive member of society.

There are possibly other children? He hung out with the goths in school and fit in because he wore black? He told jokes and laughed at them. Yes, we’re having a hard time to know when normal isn’t normal.

Sounds like it is time that we develop a different screening test for young children. We might not be able to change or alter the path of a young P, but if they can be identified early, maybe we will prevent those who would become their victims.

I have a feeling that there are going to be many more Jessicas before that happens.

Sorry, I am very cranky today. Maybe it’s a letdown from Hurricane Sandy. Anybody know how Donna did? She lives in Atlantic City which is where the storm hit the US.

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