Lovefraud recently received the following email from a reader whom we’ll call “Eleanor.”
Thank you for your wonderful site Lovefraud! It has helped me tremendously. I am still with my sociopath husband, but am quietly and surely planning on leaving. We have a few children so it really makes it more complicated.
He has now gone up to the next stage in what I’ve read sociopaths love to do. I’m so thankful that I read about it before he did it and know how to react and what to expect! He’s started to call up my family, giving them a sob story about how broken he is and how I won’t get any help (we’ve gone through a few counselors, with no obvious results as they’ve all been taken in by his acting abilities).
Now my question to you is, knowing he’s doing this, how can I have my close family not be influenced by him or believe him? To know it’s useless to fight him that’s a given (except in court, I will do whatever I can so that he doesn’t get custody of the children). But what can I say to my family to let them not take sides, realize he’s lying to them, and have them not believe him? I tried to tell them this but his authentic depressed behavior got to them more. I don’t want to be left alone without any support and want to catch this in the bud.
After I read your wonderful site I realize he’s been doing this for years. He’ll see I’m talking to a specific friend too much, and suddenly she’ll stop calling. I tried hard to think if I did anything to offend her, and I didn’t. Before I just had vague suspicions, but now I see clearly that he probably called her or her husband and spread lies that I told about her (I have only said good things about her, so there’s nothing truthful that he could say that would be bad). This has happened with past counselors also. One I finally had the courage to call and told her what he said that she said, and she was very upset and said she never said that about me and she’ll clear it up.
People don’t know
The problem Eleanor faces is that people in general do not know that sociopaths exist. They do not know what sociopathic behavior looks like. So because people do not understand that there are people who intentionally feign distress and unhappiness, casting themselves as the victim, they do not realize that what they are witnessing is nothing but an act, and they are being conned by a sociopath.
Eleanor needs to educate her family about sociopaths, but she needs to do it carefully. If she rants and raves that they should not to believe her husband because he is a sociopath, they will probably look at her like she is nuts. In fact, her husband may already be telling them that he’s very concerned about Eleanor, because she’s becoming mentally unglued. The family may begin to think that the husband is right, and Eleanor does, in fact, have mental issues.
Why would they think this? Because they probably believe that sociopaths are all deranged serial killers. If Eleanor’s husband hasn’t killed anyone, or if he isn’t violent, then she must be nuts.
Silence of the Lambs
A few days ago I watched The Silence of the Lambs. This is, of course, the movie that features Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter, the cannibalistic psychopath.
Even though the movie came out in 1991, I’d never seen it. I don’t like horror movies or scary movies, so I never wanted to. But since we spend so much time talking about how people don’t understand what a psychopath really is, I figured I needed to see the movie that created so much misinformation, so I ordered it from Netflix. I was so apprehensive that I actually had nightmares several days before watching the film.
Two things struck me about Silence of the Lambs. First, Jodie Foster was really young in the movie. Second, no wonder people think psychopaths are all brilliant, cold-blooded serial killers.
The movie won five Academy Awards, including Best Actor and Best Actress for Hopkins and Foster, along with Best Picture, Best Director and Best Adapted Screenplay. The American Film Institute named Hannibal Lecter, as portrayed by Hopkins, as the number one film villain of all time.
In the beginning of the movie, the medical director of the prison where Lecter is kept says, “Oh, he’s a monster. A pure psychopath. So rare to capture one alive.” And Lecter does display psychopathic behavior. But his behavior is so off the charts that I don’t know if there are any real-life cases as bad as he is.
Lecter is highly manipulative. The problem, however, is that his manipulation is obvious. His evil is obvious. And, of course, the guy is in prison for crimes so heinous that they put him in a straight jacket, strap him to a gurney and put a full mask on him to prevent him from literally biting someone’s head off.
I can see how the image of a psychopath from The Silence of the Lambs could be seared into someone’s brain. Unfortunately, the cartoon image of Hannibal Lecter may prevent people from identifying the real psychopaths who live among us.
After watching this movie, I feel like my decision to use the term “sociopath” on Lovefraud, instead of “psychopath,” was correct. No matter how many academic papers psychology researchers publish about the behavior of psychopaths, they’ll never be able to overcome the image of Anthony Hopkins ripping a cop’s face open with his teeth.
Red Flags of Love Fraud
Lovefraud’s goal is to educate people about sociopaths and what they’re really like, especially in intimate and family relationships. Towards that end, today I am sending my second book to the printer. It’s called, Red Flags of Love Fraud 10 signs you’re dating a sociopath. Here’s the description from the back cover:
What everyone who wants a loving relationship needs to know about social predators
Charisma, charm, so much in common and sexy too—is your romantic interest a dream date, or a sociopath? Millions of these social predators live among us, and they don’t look or act like serial killers. Rather, they present themselves as the love you’ve been waiting for all your life. Red Flags of Lovefraud identifies the clues and patterns of behavior that may indicate your partner is actually an exploiter. This book explains why you may be vulnerable, how the predators seduce you, how you become psychologically bonded, and how to break free of the trap.
I asked a former employee, whom I hadn’t spoken with in many years, to proofread the book. It turned out that she, too, married a sociopath. She told me, “If I’d read this book 10 years ago, it would have changed my life. Literally.”
My hope is that people will read the book, recognize the behaviors and realize that they’re dealing with a sociopath. My bigger hope is that people will read the book, learn the warning signs, and avoid becoming involved with a sociopath in the first place.
Explaining the behavior
But back to Eleanor she’s dealing with a husband who is full manipulation mode, trying to remove her support system by lying to her family and friends. My guess is he’s also running a smear campaign, subtly disparaging Eleanor to make her less credible.
First of all, I am really glad that Eleanor had the nerve to tell one of the counselors what her husband said. I’d be interested to know how that situation plays out —does the counselor start to get what is happening? Or does she fall for the husband’s lies again?
As far as the rest of her family is concerned, I think Eleanor needs to thoroughly educate herself about exactly what a sociopath is and how they behave. One way to do it is by reading Lovefraud carefully. She should learn about the key symptoms. She should even be able to quote some statistics about how many millions of sociopaths live among us.
Then, when appropriate opportunities arise with individual family members, she can present this information coolly and calmly. In fact, when her husband does something right out of the sociopathic playbook, she can explain how it is typical sociopathic behavior. For example, his sob story about how broken he is is an example of the pity play.
It’s important not to get upset or angry while conveying such information, because that would create the image that Eleanor is nothing but a scorned woman. People can’t listen to someone who is upset; they put up their defenses. And, presenting this information while upset could play right into the hands of the husband, who is probably saying that Eleanor is mentally unbalanced. So the best way to communicate this information is dispassionately.
What else can she do or say? Do you have any suggestions for Eleanor?
As I said in another post yesterday… I go to bed early every night. So I missed some of this thread.
Anyhow, Eleanor, I have some random thoughts for you. These are of course based largely on my own situation and may not apply to you. I do not know how many kids you have, their ages, genders, current activities, schooling situation, etc. (that’s personal stuff, you don’t have to tell).
First, I would be very concerned about faking mental illness as a form of “gray rock.” Honestly, that sort of thing would have been amazing “supply” for my spath — and it would be fodder for him to spread all over town. (genuine mental illness is another matter — but if that is the case, and trust me, PTSD is pretty common here! — I would still try to hide it from him! It could impact your custody case and put you in a weakened position).
I have an idea about the kind of pretending persona you might want to try on him, but again this is based on my own spath and my own personality. For me, it has worked best when I am sort of slightly on the upbeat side of neutral. I do not mean chipper, cheerful, joyful, or anything like that. I mean… kind of pleasant and reserved, polite, unruffled…
When he tries to push a button, there are a lot of neutral, noncommittal responses you can make. Make it seem less like a panicked emergency and more like a, “oh… I see… let me think about that for awhile… I’ll get back to you…” or somewhat vaguely concerned, “this seems very important to you… I’ll get back to you soon…”
What also worked for me was to be somewhat airheady. In fact, to this day, my spath thinks I’m nowhere near as smart as he is. 😉
Next up: impression management. This works both ways. I do not know your situation vis-a-vis how much time you respectively have care of the children (for instance, if you are a SAHM or if you share these duties evenly). But… I suggest spending as much time as possible with your kids, away from your husband, and making a good impression on the other adults. Be your best self in public. Do not badmouth the spouse — it always backfires. If, for example, your spouse currently has the duty of taking one of your children to sports practice — start going along sometimes.
As for the homework, as you say your husband puts down your children while they are struggling — oh, that is very bad and I’m very sorry. Suggestion: try to find another family to do “study buddies” with, make an excuse, go to the library, something to get the homework done AWAY from the disparaging comments. That also strengthens your positive relationship with the kids.
Try not to leave your kids alone with your husband much — if you can help this. (but you cannot be obvious about what you are doing).
As for conversational topics, you can make up a plausible new hobby or subject that you don’t really care about much, that he would find dull, and start expressing enthusiasm for that. It can throw him off track. Maybe to do with farming, or squirrels, or celebrity face lifts or something. Try to find documentaries on this topic to watch on netflix, to make your newfound interest seem legit.
But when he wants info about you/kids, shift into vague mode. I think it is better to appear distracted and airheady, than depressed or sleepy.
And… regarding his lying in therapy…. ROFLMAO. No kidding! That’s what they do, all right. and that’s why therapy NEVER WORKS and can be very damaging to the normal spouse in these abusive spath relationships. You are not alone in this experience, Eleanor!
Yes, my spath and his spathwife lied with the most sincere, butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-their-mouths expressions. In fact, they lied about something they’d said the previous week in therapy! And the therapist did not remember, unfortunately, that they’d said what they had said (and were currently denying that they’d said). This is the kind of crazy-making stuff that could really cause you to doubt yourself. Except that right after the previous week’s session, I had been so PO’d by what they’d said, I’d blabbed to a few friends and wrote it down in my journal, word for word. I definitely didn’t dream this up. And here they were, a week later, denying it totally. If I hadn’t figured them out by then — that would have done it.
But Oxy is right — you don’t EVER tell them you are onto their lies. That is dangerous for you. Just make note of it. And know that they WILL lie, and that people will unfortunately believe them.
That is why I suggest making more of a positive presence now, proactively, with your kids and in public, the acquaintances and friends you have, who he is likely to tell lies to about you.
Sometimes it also helped me (in overcoming emotionality) to try to “channel” someone other than my own pitiful, weak self. You know who I channelled the most? MYSELF. But I channelled my own, older and wiser earth mother/grandmother self, the self I hoped to become in the future. (try it — it works!)
20years ~ Excellent post, great ideas, solid and precise. I think these are some Eleanor can use.
I never would have thought of the study buddies. Excellent.
Thanks, Milo.
Actually, I thought of a couple more. 🙂 (been at this awhile, I guess)
Eleanor… I don’t know your social/friend situation, your network, if you have a job or if you are a SAHM. If you have a place of worship, etc., and if all of your friends are “couple friends” or if you have some solid childhood friends, college friends, etc. Again, you don’t have to reveal this personal info but what I have to say will apply more or less, depending…
one thing I did (that is actually pretty common, as you will FIND OUT LATER)… is seek out some single moms. I confess, while I had been married, I had pretty much focused on cultivating friendships with other couples. It just matched up nicely and all. And I didn’t come into contact with too many single moms.
I know that was short-sighted and rude of me. Well, as I contemplated leaving my husband, I began to seek these other women out, and of course as soon as my divorce became common knowledge… guess what — yeah — other moms thinking of leaving THEIR husbands started seeking ME out!!! As if I had all the answers, haha.
Well, I did have a little more experience. And when you are just getting started down this path of uncharted territory… it helps to talk to people who’ve tread this path before.
So, reach out to some single moms. You will be surprised how many of them have stories similar to yours. On the plus side: you will make some new friends who have NO ties to your husband, who will be EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to believe his lies. 😉
Other thing I did: check out your local domestic violence support groups. They are a great resource, even if he has never laid a hand on you physically, but the abuse has been emotional. You will find support and validation AND be able to lend support and validation to others. You can also get good, free legal advice.
The bottom line about what I just said: DO NOT ISOLATE YOURSELF. If your current friends and family are unsupportive, then girl, go out and get yourself some new and real friends, the friends who have been there and who get it! This forum is great, but nothing beats in the flesh friendships.
Plus, it will drive your husband crazy. 🙂
Next up: in response to the maddening statement you will hear over and over from people, “well, I just don’t know whom to believe. I don’t want to take sides. That’s just YOUR perspective. We have to be fair to both of you.”
You can say… “you know, I once thought that too. But then I read somewhere, and this made sense to me… suppose person A is telling the truth, and person B is lying his a** off, do you really think the truth lies somewhere “in between?” No, it does not! The truth lies WHERE THE TRUTH LIES. And it is very damaging and unfair to the person who is telling the truth, that they are not believed.”
I would advise that any socializing be done in secret.
Any new friends will be sabotaged. Mine went to far as to slander me to my pharmacist. told her i was doctor shopping. i’m sure it was him because the accusation from her, came out of the blue.
Another of my friends was tormented by his minions so she thought she was going crazy and began to abuse drugs and alcohol.
Anytime he saw me connect with people, he would surreptitiously come in the back door and find a way to cut me off. I had no idea that was happening.
Expect that the only people who will believe you are the domestic violence victims. And even THEY don’t get what a psychopath is. Most of them just think an abusive spouse is a bully (who really does love them deep inside).
Honestly, making friends with people and letting spath know about it puts them in danger too. Spaths will do anything to keep their victims isolated. They have NO LIMITS.
Skylar, good points. Because it depends how spathy and dangerous your spath is, and good to be cautious.
I think I have been lucky in friendships. One of my friends “got” my spath husband because she had to go to the hospital, due to one of his violent rage attacks. So, first-hand experience and she never doubted me. (his rage was directed at property, glass was broken, flew into her eye… so it was not specifically directed at HER).
Another friend grew up with a spath sibling, and she approached me (this is post-divorce that she met me; she had interactions with my spath through connections at our kids’ school) — to see if I knew what I was dealing with, or to check her perceptions of him against mine.
And yet another friend whose ex-husband has BPD (as a diagnosis) also got the situation.
I do think that divorced people may get it more than domestic violence victims (by the very nature of the term, still suffering and in a victim state, without the perspective that distance can bring).
Yes, Skylar is right — be cautious.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/article/239089/82/Man-Gets-26-Years-after-Stalking-a-Women-for-17-Years
I’m not even sure what to think of this guy.
The laws are absurd.
20years and skylar,
You both have good points, again, of course! 20years a lot of your points I do use or would be good for me to use, I have to implement them.
I know you’ve asked me a few times for my details, but maybe I’m still too attached and paranoid/scared. Spath could easily look this up one day, read my post and say, hey, this sounds very familiar. He knows I’ve been researching to see what exactly he has. So I’m vague on purpose. But I have to tell you that your life information is VERY VERY helpful to me and is very relevant. I haven’t given much real examples, the homework thing is very minor, but a lot of what other’s have written all over this site EXPLAINS MY LIFE!
Eleanor, OMG!!! Do NOT give details here if there is any concern whatsoever that he will find you. I am sorry if it came across that I was pressing you for details… I only meant, it is easier to give targeted advice if we know details, but otherwise we can just give general advice that may or may not be on point. Which is FINE, and SAFER for you.
I can give details because I am far enough along (12 years out of that marriage with kids almost out of the nest) that there really is very little he could do to me. Yes, it would make him angry to see himself on display here, but I am not giving any identifying details… the only people who might figure out who he/we are are people who have already heard these stories from me. And I don’t actually do a whole lot of talking about that, except to very few trusted friends and family.
It is good to keep your anonymity, especially as you have not even begun your divorce.
and an afterthought… you ARE more computer savvy than he is, right? He can’t follow your tracks on the home computer? Sorry to mention that, but a few of us have been burned that way.
20years, thanks for your validation! I did’t think you were pressing me, I just felt after you asked me twice in a round about way, that I should explain. Don’t feel bad at all, you’re helping me! I’m thankful to you!! This site is a real Godsend for me.
I have some single moms that I speak to, but as they also have small children, they don’t have much time.