By Joyce Alexander, RNP (Retired)
Psychopaths sometimes don’t know enough about how the rest of the world thinks to tell a “good” lie. I saw the following article about North Korea’s soccer team and how they had been apparently caught in a doping scandal, but were claiming that it was really an herbal medication that made them test positive for steroids.
The excuse given was that the team members had been struck by lightening and they had decided, heroically, to compete anyway. The steroids were accidentally taken with traditional Chinese medicines.
I have recently found other articles about the “stories” of the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-II, that made me laugh out loud. In one article, he supposedly played his first round of golf and scored a 38, including five holes-in-one.
One of the things I have noticed about many psychopaths, and others who frequently lie, is that their lies are so “off the wall” that no one over three years old would believe a word of them. They will “lie when the truth will fit better” is a saying I’ve heard all my life. This seems to be especially true with pathological liars and psychopaths.
Dr. Robert Hare, well-known psychopathy researcher, says that psychopaths have difficulty realizing that their lies are unbelievable, even when the evidence that they are untrue is literally in front of them. In some way, the two sides of their brains can’t connect the evidence in front of their eyes.
An example of this are the lies told by Casey Anthony when she led the police to the place she supposedly worked, even going to a cubical, when she knew that she didn’t work for that company. She also lied about leaving her daughter with “Zanny the Nanny,” when such a person didn’t exist. Anthony even led the police to the door of the empty apartment with the police in tow.
Not all liars are psychopaths, but all psychopaths are liars. Liars signal that they are not to be trusted. But if you hear a lie that is so outrageous that it makes you laugh out loud, or have the feeling that the person telling it must be “crazy—”look out! You very well may be dealing with a psychopath.
Duped ..thank you and lone wolf. The outsiders don’t understand (why should they), they just think you, me are crazy. You are right Duped to keep it to yourself, I learnt that no one would believe me ..although I did get some ‘justice’ in the end.
What I realised, was I am a lot stronger than I would ever believe, my children and family get it ..my children ..right pair of cynics ..they can spot a spath even better than me. However, I think knowledge is power and this site a lifeline.
Thank you for the links, the more I ‘get it’, the more I move on, never the same trusting fool but I made mistakes as well, so I am slowly coming to terms with my own culpability, which has been the most difficult.
Care to all.
Morning from the left coast of the U.S. moveingon!
Oh yes, a lifetime of ‘keeping it to myself’, I am afraid.
If we are patient we will see justice, whether inside or out. 🙂
Oh yes, we are amazingly STRONG to have survived this and still speak words more than uttering syllables. I completely understand this. I have never met such evilness and vileness in my entire lifetime and I came from a pretty dysfunctional family, growing up. It’s really shocking when I think of it in terms such as that!!!!
Yes, movingon: knowledge IS power. We need to empower ourselves and feed our souls and realize that we are ENTITLED to say NO – no matter IF our emotions are taunting us. That is what sets us apart from all the rest. 😉
Your welcome for the links. How could I NOT share? xxoo
I am determined to make it the length of this journey, you know! I am ABSOLUTELY determined to overcome this ‘addiction’ and to put it aside and live the rest of my life in peace. Anybody with me???!!!! 🙂
mwahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
xxoo
DUPED:
Thanks for the links. I saved them.
Redwald;
You are spot on about outrageous behavior:
This is exactly as I felt and this was only one example. He was never violent or directly verbally abusive, just inexplicable outbursts that left me bewildered.
Let me add again that while he is pulling these “proper and reserved British” stunts with me, unknown to me at that time is that online he was various profiles online with stated interests of “boys, beers and messing around” or similar. He is also a flight attendant, a profession not known for its purity…
I do not think he is histrionic because otherwise his is very unemotional nor do I think he is borderline as they tend not to be manipulative and he was very manipulative. The previous evening was lovely and when I left him and his friends, in the cab ride home I received a nice text telling me how he was very much looking forward to the next date.
All the evidence I have is that he is at least mildly sociopathic, only because I do not know enough about his past and if it includes any criminal behavior.
What I do believe, pieced together from his online profiles and timing of his outrageous behaviors, is that he is HIV+ and was hiding that from me. For that, I am grateful that he did not take sexual advantage of me.
Hello everyone –
I was very bored at work last night and I stumbled across this somewhat interesting clip on Youtube:
http://youtu.be/BCTeh_qcDeQ
At any rate, as I was watching this I was trying to decide whether or not this young woman has any traits that could be “abstracted” and universalized as pertaining to the “sociopath category”. (Of course, I’m being rather “unscientific” here in taking literally her assertion that she’s a sociopath: it could admittedly be otherwise, though I see no reason not to assume that this is probably an accurate portrayal.) In other words, is there anything about her “affect” which strikes you as peculiar? Because in my many years as a teacher, I think I’ve encountered this “personality type” in numerous settings, and it has always given me a very distinct feeling of unpleasantness and “unwholesomeness” (If you’re really bored, watch some of her other videos and you’ll probably see what I mean!)
Not that I’m making a “normative” or moral judgment about her – like I said, I’m simply trying to look at this person “scientifically” and determine whether or not there are any “generalizable” traits (our “red flags”) for sociopathy. Personally, I’m a very poor interpreter of “feminine affect” (haha), so I’m wondering if any of the women here are getting the same “vibe” that I am (We might call it the “stay away unwholesome vibe”!).
At any rate, the thing which most strikes me most about this woman, is the way in which her emotional/affective state seems to be unconnected to any integrated or underlying personality structure. (I realize this is a very “subjective” impression, so don’t chide me too much for that!). In other words, she’s “all on the surface”, and the surface is all there is.
Nevertheless, that brings me to another point. Even though she comes off as being a decidedly vapid sort of person, she at the same time seems to exude a very spirited and vulgar fascination with herself (I fear that a weak-minded male might well take this for “charm” or charisma.) It’s quite a curious combination, actually: emptiness being put forward as a “plenitude.” (In the Sartrean sense, in case there are any philosophy students here!) To be sure, I see this more and more in our increasingly narcissistic society – people making videos and whatnot, regarding the most trivial and meaningless details of their lives; and yet doing so in a manner that says, “I’m such a complex and endlessly fascinating person! – wouldn’t you just love to know me and be a part of my amazing life!”
Well, not me! But the point I’m making here is that this (again, regardless of whether or not we literally accept this woman’s “self-diagnosis”) is precisely where sociopaths show such facility and adroitness: i.e., “marketing” their essential nothingness as a “fullness of being” that the rest of us lack and therefore should desire. (I know that’s a bit abstract, but I think this “existentialist” framework is particularly apt here.)
Be that as it may, I really would be interested in any “female-ist” perspective on this matter. If nothing else, I’d like your input as to whether or not this is a “common” type that you encounter in your day to day lives – or would you say that she is simply a “statistical outlier?” As I said, I personally witnessed this variety of person with an alarming frequency during my final years as a teacher (alas, one of the many reasons that I “jumped ship”!) So maybe it should be associated with the rising self-preoccupation and narcissism of the younger generation? That’s my hunch, at any rate, but I’m not entirely sure. Any insights?
Dear Duped,
Good day to you, by the way! I haven’t had time to read very much on this site lately, but from what I’ve seen of your posts, you seem to be doing quite well. Anyhow, I certainly hope that’s the case! At the very least, you will always be in my thoughts and prayers – even when I’m too busy to visit LF on a regular basis.
All the best to you, Dear lady.
Constantine,
interesting video. I also like your take on how the woman presents herself. I don’t think she is a sociopath at all, she’s just an extreme narcissist. I say this because I think a sociopath would never remove their mask. Their need to appear “real” all the while knowing that they aren’t “real” is part of their pathology. They need their facade like we need oxygen.
This woman is shallow, that’s for sure but she doesn’t seem to get that she is “missing a limb” because she’s always been that way and it seems normal to her. I think a true sociopath is missing all 4 limbs and is deeply aware of it because he sees other people walking around with all 4 limbs and he envies them and feels that life has treated him unfairly. So he put on his 4 prosthesises and does his best to go out and cut off other peoples’ limbs because if he can’t have limbs neither will anyone else.
Constantine;
That woman is not a sociopath. She is a Narcissist pretending to be a sociopath to boost her own self-image as a Femme Fatale.
Sociopaths have a facial affect that his hard to describe that goes along with their inability to recognize facial expressions other than anger.
My x-spath had a very monotone talking style and the classic stare. She exhibits neither. My x-spath also has a look of emptiness and in no picture I have ever seen of him does he look happy.
Constantine, My Friend: Good Day to you.
I am doing alright, thanks for inquiring. I hope and pray you are as well. Life goes on 🙂
I watched your video and there is SOMETHING wrong with this woman. I would be hard pressed to say she is ‘anything’ just by this video but her thoughts are representative to me of someone who has something wrong with them in the sense she is so mean. I would suggest that perhaps she is bi polar or has a personality disorder. MAYBE. Really hard to say not knowing her. She isn’t presenting any particular outstanding traits of sociopathy to me. She is SAYING she is sociopathic however she isn’t exhibiting many of the same traits I have seen.
She seems very shallow, complaining about the baby crying, etc., but we only see the surface of her disdain. It is difficult to say without knowing her other actions or seeing her relate to others on an interpersonal level.
So, my estimation would be that she has SOME sort of personality disorder which makes her feel the way she does. Just because someone is admitting sociopathy doesn’t mean that she isn’t nor that she is. Her other actions in relation to LIFE itself is the proof in the pudding.
As you can see, I am open minded in the sense of not labeling people sociopath unless they truly do deserve the title. My x sp used to openly admit “IT’s” problems and shortcomings in the hopes that it could convince people to feel sorry for it. That somehow if it ‘admitted’ it’s shortcomings, that justifies it’s actions and that is enough. Sometimes it isn’t enough. Sometimes the things they do to us is so horrid that ‘I am sorries” just don’t cut it. Sometimes their actions step over that boundary and become more than vile and disgusting, sometimes their actions become psychopathic and they truly don’t care.
Nice to read you Constantine. I hope that life is treating you well. Always in my thoughts with prayers and affection,
DUPED
Dear Sky, BBE,
Thanks for the feedback. I think you are both right in attributing to her a high degree of narcissism. And it might well be that this is a case of “Malignant Narcissism” rather than Sociopathy – I’m still undecided.
Nevertheless, I think that she somewhat straddles that weird borderland region where the one disorder really starts to shade into and become indistinguishable from the other. (We might perhaps call her a “Narcissopath.”)
Also, if we take her statement about “not feeling anything if her best friend should die” (lucky friend!) at face value – rather than seeing it as a “pose” – then that rather runs against a purely “NPD” diagnosis. (Because N.s are supposedly able to feel grief like the rest of us.)
As far as BBE’s comment about the “sociopathic stare,” I would just add that that is not necessarily present in every case. When it is, it is admittedly quite striking and unforgettable. (At least according to those who have experienced it.) However, some S’s. are remarkable “mimicks” – and as far as their exterior goes – they “act the part” with consummate skill (i.e. no “reptilian ogling” and so forth.)