Why do psychopaths go after what they want regardless of the negative consequences they may experience? According to the journal Nature Neuroscience, the answer may be chemical—an overactive dopamine reward system.
Read Driven toward reward without regard for consequence on Time.com.
Read the scientific study, Mesolimbic dopamine reward system hypersensitivity in individuals with psychopathic traits, in Nature Neuroscience.
Link submitted by a Lovefraud reader via Facebook.
Our Family Wizard can help you co-parent with a sociopath
Dear Kim, I know you are right!
I keep telling myself that!!! I keep boinking myself for feeling it! I think the worst part of feeling guilty is because I DO FEEL I’m glad it was her, not me! And, I KNOW it COULD have been me except by the grace of God HE decided not to come home!
The one time he visited after he got out, (it was not a pleasant visit BTW) he told me in an angry voice “The reason I didn’t come home is I knew you would have turned me in if I got in trouble with the law”
It was like a CURSE and a PUNISHMENT he was not coming home, I think he really felt he was punishing me by not coming home since my husband and I had arranged for it, but he lied, he had no intention of coming home but was going to his cousin’s house. She was going to rescue and “save” him from the nasty mother he had that had disloyally turned him in to the cops for stealing their friend’s business computer and shutting down their business for several weeks. All he needed, according to her, “was someone to trust him and treat him like an adult.”
THEN, later she got mad at me when the SWAT team stormed her house to get the murder weapon he had stashed in his room at her house! LOL
Oxy –
I also think there can be a way to turn it around and say –
look I am no dummy – I havent forgotten what it was like when we were living together — and I cant imagine you (son) forget all the turmoil and fighting and frustration you went through with me too.
There is a way to say THIS IS NOT ABOUT NOT LETTING YOU RETURN TO MY HOME BECAUSE I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU AND I WANT TO PISS YOU OFF… THIS IS ABOUT ME EXPLAINING TO YOU THERE IS A WAY TO LIVE/EXIST WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS – ITS CALLED RESPECT HONESTY AND OPENNESS — for whatever reason it is non-existent between you and me. Therefore, I cannont agree to your terms because this has to be about OUR MUTUALLY AGREEABLE TERMS. If you would like to entertain the idea of moving back you will have to meet the following criteria teenagers across the world have responsibility for — you son are not exempt… if you feel you are — then you are not welcome here.
1. school
2. curfew
3. job
4. animal treatment
5. chores
6. respect etc….
This in and of itself will probably turn him away…but again its the presentation and delivery with Wittys son that may make all the difference is Witsend says, if you want back then you will have to make changes and be consistent and commited to whats needs to happen. Otherwise its not even an option. I havent forgotten what it was like for us when you were here — I cant knowingly go back to that lifestyle of chaos confusion and complete isolation from eachother under the same roof.
In other words – present it – you are welcome but not on your terms .. It will be on my terms. And I welcome you to share with me (put in writing) what you need from me – in terms of reconnecting as mother and son.
Again falling on deaf ears? Maybe. But only more insight into where he is, where his head is – will come out of it. Surely no expectations for Witsends son to do a complete 360 — but i say being non reactive yet voicing a firm statement – “I remember what it was like with us living under same roof – Im no dummy – neither of us should want to go back to that way of living… put it back on him …
Dear Learning, a while back, I suggested the same exact thing to witty that you did, but the problem as she explained it to me was HE saw that SHE NEEDED TO CHANGE not the other way round! Then they would get along FINE! ROTFLMAO
Unfortunately, he has NO IDEA THAT HE IS DELUSIONAL or that he is not entirely Rational, and entitled to what he wants. PERIOD.
That’s what she has been saying about his ‘OWN REALITY’ is not anything like what is seen by everyone else.
Her son,, I am SORRY to say, is like mine. Here is my P-son’s LOGIC. Mom turned me in to the police when I had robbed her friend’s business. I am her son. She had NO RIGHT to do that, it was disloyal (even though it was my husband’s idea to call the cops) it was HER FAULT I went to jail.
It took several hours for the cops to release him, I went to get him, along with my husband. He came downstairs and said “What th FRACK took you so long?” My husband and I refused to take him home after that display and I told the officer’ Please take him upstiars this isn’t my son, though he looks like him, MY SON WOULDN’T TALK TO ME LIKE THAT”
DUH! I got home he called and cried “Mom, whhyyyy did you leave me?”
I went to court, told the judge he had violated his probation on previous juvinile charge and I could not control him, so I would only take him with a radio collar. (one more week in jail til that was arranged)
He comes home complete with radio collar—is MAD AT ME FOR TURNING HIM IN TO POLICE, not taking him home after he “sassed” me, making him wear radio collar—all my BAD BEHAVIOR—
Fast forward 3 years (he is now age 20) —he is arrested again, this time for murder, and IT IS MY FAULT HE IS IN PRISON AGAIN FOR MURDER, why? Because I called the cops when he was 17.
Makes sense to him. Doesn’t make sense to me. To him, I DESERVE TO DIE for betraying him. For cutting off his inheritence I deserve to die. He is he believes ENTITLED to everything I own, everything I have worked for, and to do whatever it takes to get it, including killing me.
It took me a long time to wrap my head around the obvious truth, I almost made it when he was 17 and I walked away from the cop-shop. My BIG MISTAKE was going back to the court the day he was arraigned. I should never have allowed him back into my house, even with a parole officer and a radio collar. They don’t respect ANY boundaries, even when enforced by the cops.
Sabrina,
I really do appreciate your prayers. I NEED them. I am having a hard time with my faith right now. A really hard time.
As you might remember I did file for incorrigible through the courts last summer, because here in my state incorrigible has to be filed before the age of 17.
Instead of going in front of a judge, they put us through a program instead. I don’t know if this is because of case overload or? It was a relatively “new” program for this county as I did a little research on it.
It actually was a pretty good program for your “typical” defiant teenager. It was a reward system approach (something I had already tried in the past) of using alot of daily positive consequences, and making a written contract between the teenager and parent.
The problem was that defiance isn’t the only issue with these kinds of kids. And using positive consequences doesn’t work when the child in question feels ENTITLED to the degree that these kids feel entitled. The contract is written to pursue kinda that “give and take” , a reciprocating relationship with child/parent. And a reward system approach.
As you can imagine it didn’t work in our situation. It wasn’t even a brief band aid.
My son was going to school although there were some major issues at the school because he was there in a physical sense only. He refused to participate in school. And by that I mean REALLY refused to participate. He just sat in a desk and wouldn’t fill in a test paper or any of his daily work. Would hand papers in blank or not at all.
It was as if his message was: You can make me be here but you can’t make me participate. So naturally his teachers were frustrated. Later in that same school year he would just sleep in EVERY class and his teachers were so frustrated with him by THAT time, they ALLOWED him to sleep. Didn’t even bother waking him up or send him down to the office.
This is the kind of outcome that he percieves as a “win”. He delights in this kind of stuff.
And this is kind of how he operates. He didn’t skip school at this age because of the consequence of truancy, however he could make the teachers life hell by just not participating in the classroom. I honestly think he prefers the more subtle approach of keeping people off balance. He could have easily been expelled by now, if he wanted to. So far he has chosen to keep his behavior within the confines of not getting expelled.
This year at school has been nightmare. They have changed his schedule 4 times. Finally taking him out of all regular classes. No teachers want to deal with him anymore. He was, in fact the only kid in the ENTIRE school, with a program that they made up just for him.
He has said straight up to both the school and myself that he doesn’t “need” a diploma or an education. He has bigger and better plans for himself. I’m not even sure why he still attends? Because the school has tried to push alternative ed on him.
When he was still living here school certainly wasn’t the biggest problem….In the 6 months before he left he crossed many lines…First of all the hatred became very apparent. And the hatred and anger was abusive. His rages were more verbal than they were physical. But I did experience the eyes a few times. And they are NOT human eyes. And they certainly don’t belong to a 16 (at the time) year old. They belong to a stranger. And that is exactly what I felt when I saw them. That I am ALONE in the house with a complete stranger. And in that minute, I couldn’t have felt more fear than if he had a loaded gun in his hand.
Those eyes speak volumes, because it is no longer about the “crazymaking” (or whatever) that is actually transpiring during the moment you see them. THOSE eyes kicked ME into survival mode. You might as well be face to face with a wild animal. And the “flight” response is huge. At least that is how I experienced it. I wanted to run away.
He was going to run away from home about two months before he turned 17. And on this day he was out of control, he took both my phones, the land line and my cell and I was trying to grab one of them to make a phone call. (to his friends mother) He pushed me accross the kitchen and I had always told myself that ANY cross over into physical abuse however slight, I would call the cops. So NOW I wanted the phone to call the cops. I made the MISTAKE of telling him I was calling the cops now, NOT his friends mother as I tried grabbing for the phone. I didn’t get the phone, and he called the cops on ME and reported child abuse.
I don’t want him home.
The counselor hasn’t seen him with the total mask off, so to speak. We are in family counseling. However she has seen his strong mind set. And he has said straight up to her in NO UNCERTAIN terms that he makes ALL of his decisions based soley on what he wants. With no regard to other factors, and regardless of consequences. He told her he makes up his OWN rules and those are the only rules he follows. The rules in school, town, home, job….These are not his concern. He does what is in his best interest at all times.
He told her and he was dead serious, that he is very close to being PERFECT. And he delivered this as matter of fact. NOT arrogantly although this is a very arrogant remark.
It is as if he thinks he is God, or damn well close. And I am not even sure if he believes in God or a higher power.
So I find ALL of what he said VERY alarming. As did she. On many levels.
Because as far as I am concerned he believes himself to be the higher power. AND that is as delusional as one can be in my opinon.
Witty, Maybe He’ll screw up and break the law, and you can have him arrested.
I’m wracking my brains for a solution, and that’s the only thing I can come up with.
Wits:
Ya know….Sabrinas on tosomething…..
WHAT HAPPENS if you refuse him back…????
I think….by the time you make it to a court hearing…..the clock is ticking…..
THEN, when faced with a judge….you can show who/what/when you’ve done to get help, but to no avail….
You can tell a judge you can’t sacrafice your physical safety or life for a defient person who obviously has mental health issues…..let him live with you for a bit your honor….(more time bought!)
I’m thinking you need to do whatever it is to keep him out.
You know your situation and I know you’ve tried everything you can and then some…..to no avail……
Spend the time on security and if the law/courts/police won’t /cant help……throw YOURSELF…..on the mercy of the court system…..not him…..
My heart is bleeding for you……
I can relate to so much of your situation and it terrify’s my to know from you, Sabrina and OXY how the situation can change or evolve for me…..
At times I still feel (most times) that my son is still ‘reachable’…..others….not so much…..the entitlement is big, but he doesn’t think he’s the ‘ruler’…..sometimes he pushes that direction……but bottom line is he does know….
At times when Ive told him get your butt home andif your not home in 5 minutes….police will be called….he shockes me and is home in 4 minutes…..this gives me hope that he does have some sort of ‘respect’ or ‘fear’ or whatever for the situation…..like….don’t want to go there..
I do see the defiance against authority and the manipulations and smooze to ‘get his way’……his friends parents nicknamed what he does as ‘THE JR. OVERRIDE’…..if he’s told to do something, he does it HIS way……and h’ell show YOU how it’s to be done….
If you gave him a 3 step proccess to do…..he’d be lost midway through the 1st step and the other 2 would be forgotten…..IF he got through the first request.
I feel for your stress and constant worry…..and I am sorry your coming to all dead ends…..
As a mother, all we can do is keep on doing…..until the time comes they can go conquor the world on thier own…..however that comes about…..
I commend your love and willingness to ‘find’ ways to help him……
I only wish you could gain the outcome you both deserve!!!
Big
XXOO
EB
Learning,
There comes a time when you have to have a realistic acceptance of what is more than you can handle. I believe my sons problems are much bigger than anything I can handle. Especially alone. No court supervision, no medications, no outside resources.
I believe that is where I am at. I surrender.
When I first came here to LF I wanted DESPERATELY to find help for my son. I had alot of fear of the worst possible case senerio…Because I already knew in my gut, this wasn’t just a case of teenage defiance.
I believed though, with all my heart, that there was a very injured/suffering small child inside of him that experience the tramatic event from his childhood and that with the right medical assistance, there was certainly still time to reach him, help him, and turn this around. You couldn’t have told me at this point in time that “help” was not available, attainable or that it wouldn’t work.
Granted the counseling that he was offered at this time…Left alot to be desired. It certainly wasn’t comparable to lets say taking your kid to Rileys childrens hospital if they had cancer. It certainly wasn’t the best of the best. His counselor was useless as far as I could see. However the psychiartrist on staff was good. And in the first visit within a few minutes zeroed in on some things with my son that the counselor hadn’t figured out in the several months he had spent with him thus far. But in this facility the psychiatrist doesn’t see the patients on regular visits, they are there to RX meds and see patients only for maitenance every 6-8 weeks.
Well my son wouldn’t stay on the meds so that was that. This was not my choice of a place to take him. This was the only place that accepted medicaide. Didn’t matter much as once he was done with the meds he was done with his counseling shortly after.
But before he was done, I did everything but get down on my knees to beg this psychiatrist to see my son in a couple of sessions back to back. I really did practically beg, almost shamefully. He just said I’m sorry you need to get him to take the medication.
Shortly after this the out of control behaviors became as much as a factor as the disturbing personality traits & mental concerns. And at that point I directed my energy towards the courts and these types of resources.
I didn’t have any control at this time. We had a written contract for him to go to this great skateboard camp in Pa. I thought of positive reinforcement/consequences long before we entered a court ordered program. Because I could see that he was “wired” differently.
All he had to do was one thing. Pass with C’s. Not with flying colors. But participate in school. Make an attempt.
He didn’t do this and became VERY angry at me, as he expected to go to the skate camp regardless. The contract was REWRITTEN by him. As is typical, he has done this many times since. (rewrite history to suit him) And he said that I was the one who didn’t follow through.
And this has all just progressed to where we are at today.
I am a pretty patient person. I am a very logical person. I have tried to use LOGIC throughout this entire process with him. He has no use for logic.
I have done the best that I can do.
A written contract, setting boundaries, expecting any kind of respect from him. I might as well set my goals to winning the lottery.
He might be young and this is why maybe people dont “get it.” when I try and explain it.
BUT try and look at it this way. Did your ex S/P/N respect YOU or YOUR boundaries? I would expect not. Could you expect him to be a man of his word? I would suspect no to that as well.
There is NO difference here except the age difference when it comes to what you could expect in return from your ex S/P and what I can expect from my son.
Does that help you to identify any better what I am saying?
Kim, the problem is that even if he is arrested he won’t be there LONG–he will get out in a few months unless he does murder, then he might get “a year or so,” and when they get out, they are REALLY pithed!
We have a woman in our county who got drunk, drove her car drunk and high and ran it off a boat dock into a lake and drowned her 3 kids ages 2-10 I think it was, and she got off for 3 counts of “child endangerment” and less than 2 years.
When she crawled out of the car, the next day’s paper BLAMED the county for not having a BARRICAIDE at the end of the boat dock on a public lake to keep someone from driving in there when they were drunk!
Well, personally I think she should have gotten LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE—3 X, one for each child she drowned! I’m sorry this woman is a meth head, I’m sorry she was fertile and had kids, but damn it, why doesn’t the law make someone RESPONSIBLE for the actions they choose? Instead, the “law” feels sorry for this “poor woman!” POPPYCOCK!!!! Yea, I’m mad about that one.
Poppycock????????
🙂
Witty I can so relate to you, and Im so sorry. Ive been there. My older daughter, at 16, and 17 was totally out of control. left school against her Dads and my wishes, ran away from home,{disappeared for 6 months,I was going crazy not knowing where she was.} Eventually the woman who had been lied to and conned about her situation{my daughtertold her she was homeless and destitute,LOL!} and had let her sleep in her garage for 6 months,found my number and called me. My ex husband picked daughter up, brought her home. She was angry, defiant, said,”Dont even unpack my case Mum, Im only stayinga few weeks.” I had called her bluff by selling her wardrobe, and giving her flat to her younger sister. D stayed one year. Then the rages, violence, swearing,defiance escalated. The police didint want to know. By this time. I rang the police, when they came, my ex said”Youve got it all wrong officer. My wife is mental, she is “on the game”,{Ie, a prostitute,} she beats up my daughter, not the other way around.” They believed him! my ex was drinking again, and treating me badly, and the girls copied him.I was beaten up badly by my ex. Took me two years to leave. But, meanwhile, my ex went to work, leaving me a lone with this fiend of a daughter. She threw a red hot steam iron at my head. She swore at me, threatened me. The police again did nothing. I couldnt get ANYONE to believe me, much less help me! I WAS afraid of her, the hate in her eyes was terrible! I really believe she was demon possessed, and if Id stayed any longer in that house, either she or my ex would have killed me.
The polices policy is, “We cant act until a murder or violent crime has been committed.” So, basically, they dont want to know,if you are killed by your ex or one of your adult kids,they will say,”Oh thats too bad!’ Everyone washes their hands off you.My exs boozing pals just thought I wasa nagging wife. I have NEVER in my life before or since been so scared, of both my ex, and my older daughter.If I hadnt got the hell out of that madhouse in 1982, Im sure Id be dead by now.I had to get out to save my own life, and have paid for it with false guilt to my daughters ever since. {Not any more, since finding LF!} thank God for LF!!Is it possible ,Witty, you can sellup, move, leave no forwarding address?Whats the worst the law can do to you? Put you in jail for not having your son live with you till hes 18? Id welcome jail, then, at least youll be SAFE!!NO_ONE but NO_ONE knows how terrifying this is till they have walked a mile in your moccassins.Good Luck, and {{HUGS!}} Gem.XX